Please select Into the mobile phone version | Continue to access the computer ver.
400ft Rule FAA 107
12Next >
11770 57 2017-4-22
Uploading and Loding Picture ...(0/1)
o(^-^)o
Minnesota Q
lvl.2
Flight distance : 183018 ft
United States
Offline

Question

400ft rule

Let's say I start off in a city packing lot, within say a block are buildings that range from 50ft to 200ft.

How can I make sure I'm staying in compliance with the 400ft rule?

Do I guess the tallest building height and add 400ft and make that my maximum height?
2017-4-22
Use props
blackcrusader
First Officer
Flight distance : 689774 ft
Taiwan
Offline

Only if you are standing on top of that building.  The 400 ft rule is from where you launch your drone.

2017-4-22
Use props
Minnesota Q
lvl.2
Flight distance : 183018 ft
United States
Offline

blackcrusader Posted at 2017-4-22 15:43
Only if you are standing on top of that building.  The 400 ft rule is from where you launch your drone.

I disagree, how if that would be the case would I ever do inspections on towers or roofs?

The law states 400ft above any structure with a radius of 400ft if I remember correctly
2017-4-22
Use props
Mark The Droner
Captain
Flight distance : 2917 ft
United States
Offline

I'm not a 107 expert, but I'm pretty sure you're correct MQ, you have a hard rule regarding 400', whereas the 101 pilots have a soft rule, but the 107 rule, in an urban environment, is in regards to the height of structures, I am pretty sure.  And I believe you're also correct on the radius thing, from what I remember reading.  

The 101 rule is actually a guideline and is in regards to actual AGL and has nothing to do with where you launch.  

I suppose there are maps available for pilots somewhere to show the heights of such structures... ?  Surely there must be.  

2017-4-22
Use props
CelticWarrior
lvl.4
Flight distance : 4033665 ft
  • >>>
Ireland
Offline

Minnesota Q Posted at 2017-4-22 16:19
I disagree, how if that would be the case would I ever do inspections on towers or roofs?

The law states 400ft above any structure with a radius of 400ft if I remember correctly

I'm not to sure what your regs are but where I come from 400 ft is from where you take off, if you fly commercially then you would know the rules, for me to fly higher I need to be registered commercial pilot and I need to get permission to fly above 400 ft from IAA (US FAA) .
2017-4-22
Use props
Labroides
Captain
Flight distance : 9991457 ft
Australia
Offline

blackcrusader Posted at 2017-4-22 15:43
Only if you are standing on top of that building.  The 400 ft rule is from where you launch your drone.

That's nonsense
There is no rule anywhere regarding how high your drone is above its launch point.

If there was you could have two flyers with their Phantoms beside each other but one pilot at the top of a hill and the other at the bottom and one would be illegal and one legal.
Can you see how that is too stupid to be real?

Any height regulations relate to the height your Phantom is above the ground below it, not launch point (even in Ireland and Taiwan).
Where you launch from is irrelevant.
2017-4-22
Use props
GreenHornet55
lvl.3
Flight distance : 213222 ft
United States
Offline

I am no expert, but I believe it 400 ft above ground level (AGL) from where the drone is located. Manned aircraft are should stay above 400 AGL except for takeoff/landing. That way we don't mix.
2017-4-22
Use props
Floreto
lvl.4
Flight distance : 2632375 ft
United States
Offline

Ok the FAA rules regarding this are you generally have a 400 foot ceiling on all flights unless you get a waiver.  If however you are inspecting or photographing a structure that's higher than 400 feet you can fly to the highest point of that structure plus and additional 400 feet above and away from it without a waiver.   Your question is a little different as you aren't focusing on a single building you'd be limited to a max altitude of 400 feet.
2017-4-22
Use props
Minnesota Q
lvl.2
Flight distance : 183018 ft
United States
Offline

CelticWarrior Posted at 2017-4-22 16:44
I'm not to sure what your regs are but where I come from 400 ft is from where you take off, if you fly commercially then you would know the rules, for me to fly higher I need to be registered commercial pilot and I need to get permission to fly above 400 ft from IAA (US FAA) .

I'm sorry but i do not understand your response.

I'm flying commercially in Minnesota, USA

You must not be from the states?

I know I can fly 400Ft on top of any structure, unless I'm breaking into restricted air space.
So say I'm inspecting a tall apartment building standing at 300ft, I can fly a total of 700ft.

Or say I'm inspecting a Radio Tower standing at 450ft, you really think I need a waver for that?
2017-4-22
Use props
Minnesota Q
lvl.2
Flight distance : 183018 ft
United States
Offline

Floreto Posted at 2017-4-22 19:03
Ok the FAA rules regarding this are you generally have a 400 foot ceiling on all flights unless you get a waiver.  If however you are inspecting or photographing a structure that's higher than 400 feet you can fly to the highest point of that structure plus and additional 400 feet above and away from it without a waiver.   Your question is a little different as you aren't focusing on a single building you'd be limited to a max altitude of 400 feet.

But is that not what the rule says? 400ft above and radius?

Question I have is say I'm focused on that building, what's the easiest way to add max attitude?

Fly to the top, pause and take note of height, then add 400' or is there an easier way?
2017-4-22
Use props
dronist
Captain
United States
Offline

Simple example.

You take off to 50'' then fly north ascending to a hill that is 1000' away from you but with a height of 400' than your drone hover above the hill. So the drone is hovering at a height of 50' above the hill.

Your controller will show that you are flying at an ALT of 450' but the drone is actually ONLY at 50' ALT above the hill.

For an airline pilot they fly 400' above the highest object on their route being a building, a hill a mountain etc. So if they are flying directly pass the hill they will have to be at a minimum of 400' above that hill.

Hope this help clarify the issue. Now keep in mind that the drone WILL NOT FLY above 500 meters REGARDLESS!
2017-4-22
Use props
Minnesota Q
lvl.2
Flight distance : 183018 ft
United States
Offline

dronist Posted at 2017-4-22 22:00
Simple example.

You take off to 50'' then fly north ascending to a hill that is 1000' away from you but with a height of 400' than your drone hover above the hill. So the drone is hovering at a height of 50' above the hill.

How do these people on YouTube do it?

Different app that unlocks height limits?

Seen one recently well above 500 meters on YouTube using P4P
2017-4-22
Use props
Labroides
Captain
Flight distance : 9991457 ft
Australia
Offline

Minnesota Q Posted at 2017-4-22 22:14
How do these people on YouTube do it?

Different app that unlocks height limits?

If it was above 500 metres, it wasn't a P4 pro
Post a link
2017-4-22
Use props
Dr_Sassi
lvl.2

United States
Offline

Minnesota Q Posted at 2017-4-22 21:42
I'm sorry but i do not understand your response.

I'm flying commercially in Minnesota, USA

I went through the test of Part 107 this week. So, that is pretty much how it the FAA sees it, just to agree with Minnesota Q.

FAA defines/controls quite a large air space, measured in AGL or MSL which can be similar or quite different, and such space has priority above any "drone" rule. (Not knowing the airspace doesn't make it "legal", to state the obvious; Sorry about that)
Please note that the term "restricted" is used for a specific airspace, similar to "prohibit" airspace, not to confuse with A, B, C , etc. airspace.

If in doubt, have a look at https://skyvector.com

Enjoy

2017-4-22
Use props
Cetacean
Captain
Flight distance : 2271506 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

Minnesota Q Posted at 2017-4-22 22:14
How do these people on YouTube do it?

Different app that unlocks height limits?

Aloha Minnesota Q,

     The people on YouTube are not always law abiding individuals.  The rule is 400 feet from any structure.  A mountain is also considered a structure, like a tower.  Manned aircraft are to allow a 500 foot buffer from any structure.  Of course when push comes to shove, the unmanned vehicle has to give way to the manned vehicle.  But, basically this regime allows a 100 foot buffer between manned aircraft and unmanned aircraft.  That is the theory that the FAA operates under.

     Most respondents to this thread have tried to indicate true points.  Some are still learning.  All DJI products are computer limited to 500 meters.  To go beyond 500 meters, you have to be using a DJI SDK program designed by someone working with DJI.  (Think Litchi, but not that Litchi can get you above 500 meters.)  

     Other than air fields and airports, all sUAV regulations are for AGL as far as our Phantoms are concerned (MSL is only for Class Airspace problems).  Mostly, AHP (Above Home Point) is what we deal with, but you determine your homepoint.  When we fly our mountain jungles and need extra altitude, we do not hesitate to land at a higher altitude (usually +100 feet), and shut down, so when we restart (and get a new Home Point) we can get another 500 meters.  It works and is completely legal.  The 500 meter limit is imposed by DJI to limit the liability of our Phantoms getting in the hands if people who could fly into jets and other aircraft (deliberately or not).  Smart move by DJI in my opinion!

     Hope this helps!

Aloha and Drone On!
2017-4-23
Use props
CelticWarrior
lvl.4
Flight distance : 4033665 ft
  • >>>
Ireland
Offline

Minnesota Q Posted at 2017-4-22 21:42
I'm sorry but i do not understand your response.

I'm flying commercially in Minnesota, USA

This is what it says on the FAA website. And labroids is right your height is 400 agl not 400 from take off point.

Maximum altitude of 400 feet above ground level (AGL) or, if
higher than 400 feet AGL, remain within 400 feet of a
structure.
2017-4-23
Use props
blackcrusader
First Officer
Flight distance : 689774 ft
Taiwan
Offline

Minnesota Q Posted at 2017-4-22 22:14
How do these people on YouTube do it?

Different app that unlocks height limits?

Some people confuse max height with altitude flown at. I often fly at altitudes above 10000 ft but also use the max 1640 ft height the drone can use. I am not in the USA. I have also flown from steep mountain ranges where I go 2 miles distance over a valley, yet the valley floor might be a total of 4000 plus feet below my drone due to my launching from a much higher altitude.  My drone cannot break the 1640 ft 500m height. The height limit is no fixed by the app but by firmware in the drone I believe.
By the way where I fly there are no aircraft allowed and there is not AGL rule.  There are rules for other places in my country just not where I live we are free to fly with common sense.
I also do not fly over populated areas but also use my drone to survey roads and bridges as we do get landslides up here, especially now as we have had some heavy rains.


1200m 4000 ft.jpg
2017-4-23
Use props
Mark The Droner
Captain
Flight distance : 2917 ft
United States
Offline

http://www.phantompilots.com/thr ... ed-yesterday.82070/
2017-4-23
Use props
dronist
Captain
United States
Offline

Minnesota Q Posted at 2017-4-22 22:14
How do these people on YouTube do it?

Different app that unlocks height limits?

It must have been a P2
2017-4-23
Use props
Minnesota Q
lvl.2
Flight distance : 183018 ft
United States
Offline

The one that ge seen was from a phantom 4, just not Pro.



2017-4-23
Use props
Minnesota Q
lvl.2
Flight distance : 183018 ft
United States
Offline

Dr_Sassi Posted at 2017-4-22 22:52
I went through the test of Part 107 this week. So, that is pretty much how it the FAA sees it, just to agree with Minnesota Q.

FAA defines/controls quite a large air space, measured in AGL or MSL which can be similar or quite different, and such space has priority above any "drone" rule. (Not knowing the airspace doesn't make it "legal", to state the obvious; Sorry about that)

I normally use a app from UAV Zones, part of my pre-Flight checklist.
2017-4-23
Use props
Minnesota Q
lvl.2
Flight distance : 183018 ft
United States
Offline

Thank you all for so many good responses!

The reason I started this thread wads I have a job coming up on a tall apt building.
I normally set my ceiling at 450ft, then have to pause in flight to change my ceiling in the dji app.
Is there a way to setup a warming at 400ft instead of limiting it at 400ft??


About me, 107 license and insured pilot for commercial use. Covering Southern Minnesota and Northern Iowa.
2017-4-23
Use props
Flytcam_Shaun
lvl.2
United States
Offline

Minnesota Q Posted at 2017-4-23 10:29
Thank you all for so many good responses!

The reason I started this thread wads I have a job coming up on a tall apt building.

No there is no warning as far as I know.  I just set my desired altitude limit on the ground.  I climb until the telemetry says I am there and then I go what I need to.   Then I check to see if the telemetry makes sense.  If you accidentally go above an altitude a bit.  The sky is not going to come falling down on you.  In real aviation we call that a momentary deviation.  If you accidentally popped up to 500 feet, but corrected for it within a reasonable amount of time is acceptable.  Also the FAA says it can be an approximation, so you can use other means to verify your altitude.  If a building is 400 feet and you are level with it and the systems says you are at 475 you can reasonably assume that there is a barometric change in the air pressure giving your altitude an error.  I don't see this with P4 that often, I do get it with my Inspires.   
2017-4-23
Use props
Cobra44Magnum
First Officer
Flight distance : 935135 ft
United States
Offline

dronist Posted at 2017-4-22 22:00
Simple example.

You take off to 50'' then fly north ascending to a hill that is 1000' away from you but with a height of 400' than your drone hover above the hill. So the drone is hovering at a height of 50' above the hill.

Note that it won't fly above 500 meters from the take-off point. I have flown mine from the top of a mountain pass (~12,000 feet). Most people realize that but I have seen posts where people are worried about that.
2017-4-23
Use props
blackcrusader
First Officer
Flight distance : 689774 ft
Taiwan
Offline

Minnesota Q Posted at 2017-4-23 10:18
The one that ge seen was from a phantom 4, just not Pro.


That is not above ground level it's just top altitude level. Using the max 500m height above take off point. There are many places in Turkey above this altitude level. I use my max height 500m to fly at over 3000m as well. This video at over 3100m altitude and I needed 400m height to clear the cloud base from take off point.



2017-4-23
Use props
BobUnplugged
Second Officer
Flight distance : 1014173 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

You can fly 400 feet above any allowed structure as long as you are no more than 400 feet away from it.   So you are buzzing along at 100 feet AGL, and you approach a 500-foot tall building.  Once you are within 400 feet of it, you can go up to as much as 900 feet.
2017-4-23
Use props
Labroides
Captain
Flight distance : 9991457 ft
Australia
Offline

Minnesota Q Posted at 2017-4-23 10:18
The one that ge seen was from a phantom 4, just not Pro.


It's not any kind of Phantom 4.
The video is a hoax and there are lots of clues
Look at the horizon when the camera is tilted at 38 seconds - fisheye lens - it's a Phantom 2.
Look at the lights under the motors at 1:45  - it's a Phantom 2.
He flew high but does nothing to prove how high.
Would you accept the word of someone that's already trying to fool you about what kind of drone he used?
IF he did go to 12467 feet (3800 metres), he would have had some problems with the battery.
It would have taken 12.6 minutes to climb that high and 21 minutes to come back down but flight time for the P2 was much less than we are used to nowdays.
That arithmetic suggests he didn't go that high at all.
And if he did, he would have had to deal with quite strong winds up there and probably wouldn't have been able to get it back.

Phantom 3s and 4s can't go beyond 500 metres.

2017-4-23
Use props
dronist
Captain
United States
Offline

Cobra44Magnum Posted at 2017-4-23 14:40
Note that it won't fly above 500 meters from the take-off point. I have flown mine from the top of a mountain pass (~12,000 feet). Most people realize that but I have seen posts where people are worried about that.

Of course it goes without saying otherwise they should NOT be flying!
2017-4-23
Use props
dronist
Captain
United States
Offline

Cetacean Posted at 2017-4-23 02:01
Aloha Minnesota Q,

     The people on YouTube are not always law abiding individuals.  The rule is 400 feet from any structure.  A mountain is also considered a structure, like a tower.  Manned aircraft are to allow a 500 foot buffer from any structure.  Of course when push comes to shove, the unmanned vehicle has to give way to the manned vehicle.  But, basically this regime allows a 100 foot buffer between manned aircraft and unmanned aircraft.  That is the theory that the FAA operates under.

Ceta,

As always you clear the clouds and we see the blue sky!

SAFETY FIRST - FUN SECOND
2017-4-23
Use props
blackcrusader
First Officer
Flight distance : 689774 ft
Taiwan
Offline

dronist Posted at 2017-4-23 18:52
Ceta,

As always you clear the clouds and we see the blue sky!

Well Turkey also has strict 100m height laws I believe now.

Although I have needed 400m to clear clouds where I fly I am not flying over populated areas so if my drone did ever drop out of that lovely sky up yonder it would not be hitting people. However do not use my accounts for the USA which has different laws to where I am fortunate to live.



2017-4-24
Use props
Cobra44Magnum
First Officer
Flight distance : 935135 ft
United States
Offline

dronist Posted at 2017-4-23 18:47
Of course it goes without saying otherwise they should NOT be flying!

It can go without saying (and probably shouldn't need to be said) but there have been many a thread of people worried about not being able to take-off at elevations above a certain number of feet. Companies like DJI have made drone flying so easy that there is a very wide variety of folks out there using them. I never assume that everyone knows things likes this.
2017-4-24
Use props
dronist
Captain
United States
Offline

Cobra44Magnum Posted at 2017-4-24 04:23
It can go without saying (and probably shouldn't need to be said) but there have been many a thread of people worried about not being able to take-off at elevations above a certain number of feet. Companies like DJI have made drone flying so easy that there is a very wide variety of folks out there using them. I never assume that everyone knows things likes this.
DJI, had to comply with US laws so they can keep selling in the US. That is why they have been adding all kinds of restrictions incrementally in each update and one of them was the 500 meters becasue people ABUSED IT and bragged ABOUT IT ON YOUTUBE etc. and most of the time caused failure of the drone dropping down like a bomb.

That is why new pilots need to read the manual, practice in the academy, fly around in open fields until they really master flying those birds and then you still need to act and behave like a real pilot. Check your drone before and after take off and landing. Check every part, propellers, sensors for any dust, insect smudges etc... Check your environment where you want to fly, wind speed, directions, KP etc...

These drones needs to be taken seriously regardless of where one lives because the more horror stories anywhwere it will be picked u, thx to the Internet and will affect local laws anywhere if not now but sooner or later.

SAFETY FIRST - FUN SECOND
2017-4-24
Use props
dronist
Captain
United States
Offline

blackcrusader Posted at 2017-4-24 02:34
Well Turkey also has strict 100m height laws I believe now.

Although I have needed 400m to clear clouds where I fly I am not flying over populated areas so if my drone did ever drop out of that lovely sky up yonder it would not be hitting people. However do not use my accounts for the USA which has different laws to where I am fortunate to live.

You should change your avatar to CLOUD CRUSADER, it fits you better... Did not see any new movies out of your account???
2017-4-24
Use props
blackcrusader
First Officer
Flight distance : 689774 ft
Taiwan
Offline

dronist Posted at 2017-4-24 08:36
You should change your avatar to CLOUD CRUSADER, it fits you better... Did not see any new movies out of your account???

Not for lack of wanting to fly

2017-4-24
Use props
dronist
Captain
United States
Offline

blackcrusader Posted at 2017-4-24 08:51
Not for lack of wanting to fly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2enHTKhp47M

Excuses, Excuses...

OK  will let you go this time but keep it coming!
2017-4-24
Use props
blackcrusader
First Officer
Flight distance : 689774 ft
Taiwan
Offline

dronist Posted at 2017-4-24 08:56
Excuses, Excuses...  

OK  will let you go this time but keep it coming!

I may run out and buy a Matrice 200 so I can go flying in the rain.
2017-4-24
Use props
Dewey3
lvl.2
United States
Offline

400 feet AGL PERIOD.  This is why flying above 400 feet was one of the charges against the person who crashed into the 605 foot Seattle Space Needle: http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/ ... eedle-228337-1.html.  I know flying above people was included, but busting 400 feet was also a charge.
2017-4-24
Use props
dronist
Captain
United States
Offline

blackcrusader Posted at 2017-4-24 08:55
I may run out and buy a Matrice 200 so I can go flying in the rain.

It sounds better if you said:

"I'll hopp on my flying carpet over the cloud and go buy a Matrice200... "  
2017-4-24
Use props
blackcrusader
First Officer
Flight distance : 689774 ft
Taiwan
Offline

dronist Posted at 2017-4-24 09:53
It sounds better if you said:

"I'll hopp on my flying carpet over the cloud and go buy a Matrice200... "

Choose a cloud, any cloud will do.

2017-4-24
Use props
dronist
Captain
United States
Offline

blackcrusader Posted at 2017-4-24 10:28
Choose a cloud, any cloud will do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOlB44g7IeU

Tha t is what am talking about!!!
2017-4-24
Use props
12Next >
Advanced
You need to log in before you can reply Login | Register now

Credit Rules