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P4P batteries on a plane in the US
2235 9 2017-4-30
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piowoc73
lvl.4
United States
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Hi,

is there any link to check all the regulations when traveling with LIPO batteries by plane?
I found this: https://www.faa.gov/about/office ... s_and_batteries.pdf
but it's by FAA, so I am wondering if each airline in the US can have its own regulations, or do they all have to comply with these FAA rules.

Also, is it obligatory to discharge the batteries before traveling by plane?
I wasn't able to find this as a rule anywhere. It has been mentioned on some website, but rather as a suggestion than a law.

So, my understanding is that
- because P4P are 89Wh there is no quantity limit, provided they are for personal use and not for resale of course,
- they have to be in carry on and can't be checked in, even at the gate, or plain side, with the exception of the battery, which is installed  in the drone,
- the batteries terminals should be covered with a tape to prevent short circuit.

Anything else I should be aware of?

Thanks!
2017-4-30
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Antonio76
Captain
Flight distance : 144403 ft
Denmark
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International Air Transport Association (IATA)

2017-2018 Edition of the
ICAO Technical Instruction for the Safe Transport of Dangerous Goods by Air
(Technical Instructions) and the 58th Edition of the IATA Dangerous Goods
Regulations (DGR)
...
...
Lithium ion batteries packed by themselves (Packing Instruction 965) (not contained
in or packed with equipment):
(a) must be shipped at a state of charge (SoC) not exceeding 30% of their rated
design capacity
. Cells and/or batteries at a SoC of greater than 30% may only be
shipped with the approval of the State of Origin and the State of the Operator
under the written conditions established by those authorities, see Special
Provision A331; and
IATA Lithium Battery Guidance Document – 2017
APCS/Cargo Page 3 15/12/2016
(b) are forbidden for transport as cargo on passenger aircraft unless shipped under
exemption issued by all States concerned, see Special Provision A201.
...
...

Given the above, valid for batteries transported on cargo planes, (which also explain why they are only permitted as carry-on luggage in passenger planes) I would say that -even though it is not mandatory- it would be VERY wise to transport them at the percentage of charge indicated here...
2017-4-30
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Cobra44Magnum
First Officer
Flight distance : 935135 ft
United States
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Interesting, I had read a post many months ago that indicated the P4P batteries were above the limit and couldn't be taken on a passenger plane. Also, when I purchased additional batteries for my P4P the outside of the box had a bright yellow warning label saying that the contents were not allowed on a passenger plane - only on a cargo plane. I never looked into it myself. I've got a flight next week. I think I'll give the airline a call.
2017-5-1
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piowoc73
lvl.4
United States
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Thanks!
Yeah, I believe there are many LIPO batteries, which don't have an easy way of checking their charge level, so it would be almost impossible for the authorities to do it on the spot at the airport.

Also, how the IATA rules correspond with FAA regulations? Are they valid domestically, or only on international flights?
2017-5-1
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Labroides
Captain
Flight distance : 9991457 ft
Australia
Online

piowoc73 Posted at 2017-5-1 04:44
Thanks!
Yeah, I believe there are many LIPO batteries, which don't have an easy way of checking their charge level, so it would be almost impossible for the authorities to do it on the spot at the airport.

There's some confusion and misinformation here.
You have to be careful what you believe on forums.
The IATA rules are for shipping a bulk lot of batteries as freight and don't apply to personal carrying of small quantities.
The P4 batteries are not above any size limit.
All US airlines have rules based on the FAA guidelines.
Go to your airline's website and search for batteries and you'll find their policy.
No airline and no airport security people will care what charge level your batteries are at, there are no rules about this (although lots of forum people believe there are).
You can't put batteries in checked luggage.
They have to be in carry-on luggage.
2017-5-1
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piowoc73
lvl.4
United States
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Labroides Posted at 2017-5-1 04:48
There's some confusion and misinformation here.
You have to be careful what you believe on forums.
The IATA rules are for shipping a bulk lot of batteries as freight and don't apply to personal carrying of small quantities.

Thanks Labroides!

I hope all the airlines and airport authorities are fully aware of FAA rules. I just found an article online about SouthWest passenger, who was forced out of the plane, because there was no more room for carry on luggage on that plane and obviously he was not allowed to check the batteries in. Being in his shoes I would probably just put them in my pockets
2017-5-1
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Antonio76
Captain
Flight distance : 144403 ft
Denmark
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Labroides Posted at 2017-5-1 04:48
There's some confusion and misinformation here.
You have to be careful what you believe on forums.
The IATA rules are for shipping a bulk lot of batteries as freight and don't apply to personal carrying of small quantities.

Absolutely right. (I think I said something about it in my post)

Anyway, this is straight from FAA website:

https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/hazmat_safety/



Lithium ion and lithium metal batteries, spare (uninstalled)
Rechargeable and non-rechargeable lithium batteries, cell phone batteries, laptop batteries, external batteries, portable rechargers
Close
Spare (uninstalled) lithium ion and lithium metal batteries must be carried in carry-on baggage only. When a carry-on bag is checked at the gate or at planeside, all spare lithium batteries must be removed from the bag and kept with the passenger in the aircraft cabin. The battery terminals must be protected from short circuit.
This covers spare lithium metal and spare rechargeable lithium ion batteries for personal electronics such as cameras, cell phones, laptop computers, tablets, watches, calculators, etc. This also includes external battery chargers (portable rechargers) containing a lithium ion battery. For lithium batteries that are installed in a device (laptop, cell phone, camera, etc.), see the entry for "portable electronic devices, containing batteries" in this chart.
Size limits: Lithium metal (non-rechargeable) batteries are limited to 2 grams of lithium per battery. Lithium ion (rechargeable) batteries are limited to a rating of 100 watt hours (Wh) per battery. These limits allow for nearly all types of lithium batteries used by the average person in their electronic devices. With airline approval, passengers may also carry up to two spare larger lithium ion batteries (101-160 watt hours). This size covers the larger after-market extended-life laptop computer batteries and some larger batteries used in professional audio/visual equipment.
Quantity limits: None for most batteries – but batteries must be for use by the passenger. Batteries carried for further sale or distribution (vendor samples, etc.) are prohibited. There is a limit of two spare batteries per person for the larger lithium ion batteries described above (101-160 watt hours per battery).
Batteries must be protected from damage.
Battery terminals (usually the ends) must be protected from short circuit (i.e., the terminals must not come in contact with other metal). Methods include: leaving the batteries in their retail packaging, covering battery terminals with tape, using a battery case, using a battery sleeve in a camera bag, or putting them snugly in a plastic bag or protective pouch.
See the regulation: 49 CFR 175.10(a)(18)
RECALLED BATTERIES AND DEVICES: Lithium batteries recalled by the manufacturer/vendor must not be carried aboard aircraft or packed in baggage. Battery-powered devices recalled because of lithium battery safety concerns also should not be carried aboard aircraft or packed in baggage unless the device or its battery has been replaced, repaired or otherwise made safe per manufacturer/vendor instructions. The FAA and your airline may offer further public guidance on individual recalled products. In the US, product recall information is available at:
http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/
Tip: Newer lithium ion batteries have the watt hour (Wh) rating marked on them. To calculate watt hours, multiply the battery voltage by the Amp hours (Ah). To learn more about lithium batteries, their restrictions, and how to tell what size they are, go to http://SafeTravel.dot.gov
View our illustrated guide on Airline Passengers and Batteries.
2017-5-1
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Dirty Dog
lvl.1
Flight distance : 146404 ft
United States
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I just flew from Florida to North California. No questions at check-in or at TSA security check point.   Original case foods perfectly under the seat in front of you.   No problems.  
2017-5-3
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alex240990
New
Switzerland
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Dear All,

I think this is the best forum to have the better feeback of travelers .

In one month I will travel from switzerland to Los angeles USA with British Airways (escal in London). I wrote in email and received the confirmation from Geneva Airport, Heathrow  Airport and TSA USA that I have the authorization to pass the security with my Mavic in my handbag. BUT... there is always a but... They told me to contact the airline company to have the final authorization to take the drone in cabine. British Airways replied me this morining that they cannot provide me the approval to take it in cabine. The reason is that they cannot take the risk to provide me the approval if the security refuse me at the on boarding... wtf... (I have bought a special bag for Lipo batteries and of courses have also registred my drone to the FAA regulation).

I took all the disposition to be aligned on law and rules but there is missing the only question about the cabine or loggage sout. Therfore, from your experiences, do I have to put my drone in the loggage soute or I have nothing to worry and I can take in  cabine ?

Thank you in advance for your help.

Alex
2017-5-14
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Antonio76
Captain
Flight distance : 144403 ft
Denmark
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alex240990 Posted at 2017-5-14 03:20
Dear All,

I think this is the best forum to have the better feeback of travelers .

Hi Alex, this has to do with the US hysteria  about electronic gadgets (laptops, tablets, mobile phones etc) on passenger aircraft cabins (they would be allowed in registered luggage, though) :
http://www.news.com.au/travel/tr ... 6ed8932917b66df3638
(even if it is clear that you don't come from a "suspect country"...)

I wonder if you could put the drone (minus batteries) in your registered luggage and keep your batteries (in the proper safety bags) in your hand luggage... you might want to  inquire airport authorities AND British Airways at the same time.
2017-5-14
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