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(Revized)Induced Magnetism to Mavic Remote Controller Test
1522 29 2017-5-5
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SkunkWerxs
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Induced Magnetism Mavic Remote controller --- I am Revising some of the Information in this Post that my video does not show --- While I was inducing EMF to the
Mavic Controller not only did I get the Warning of Strong Magnetic Interference, I was consecutively getting the NFZ Warning also !!!!!   
2017-5-5
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Griffith
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Good demo!
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Bill in Ohio
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Any magnetic or RF energy is subject to 1/d2 (squared).  So as the distance doubles the force is 1/4.  So at 1 inch just moving the magnets away 12inches results in 1/144 the force.  The reason a common magnet has to be almost touching to pick up a paperclip, but not enough force to affect the paperclip at a couple inches.  If you takeoff and hover and the drone isn't being pushed about, you are not being affected by magnetism at that location.  
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SkunkWerxs
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Griffith , I believe there are (2) two types of magnetic interference One is to the Mavic AC
             The second is to the Remote controller --- What would happen if you experience Both at the
              same time ??????????
2017-5-5
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hallmark007
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Good job SkunkWerks, I love the simplicity of your test.
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SkunkWerxs
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Bill in Ohio Posted at 2017-5-5 10:38
Any magnetic or RF energy is subject to F=1/d2 (squared).  So as the distance doubles the force is 1/4.  So at 1 inch just moving the magnets away 1 Foot results in 1/144 the force.  The reason a common magnet has to be almost touching to pick up a paperclip, but not enough force to affect the paperclip at a couple inches.  If you takeoff and hover and the drone isn't being pushed about, you are not being affected by magnetism at that location.

Hi Bill , But when you have a controller that's uses a magnetic sensors to control basic flight inputs from the
           sticks makes that part of the system more vulnerable to surrounding magnetic field's .
           I understand the magnet paperclip theory -- But this is an electronic sensor that was constructed
           to pick up magnetism , I don't think the Math or Theory can be used for these sensors application
FlySafe-FlyFree
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SkunkWerxs
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hallmark007 Posted at 2017-5-5 10:46
Good job SkunkWerks, I love the simplicity of your test.

Hall, Thanks I want to make the Test Videos I do to be simple so more people that are coming into the
         RC community can or will understand there systems weather it be good or bad
Thanks Again
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Bill in Ohio
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SkunkWerxs Posted at 2017-5-5 10:59
Hi Bill , But when you have a controller that's uses a magnetic sensors to control basic flight inputs from the
           sticks makes that part of the system more vulnerable to surrounding magnetic field's .
           I understand the magnet paperclip theory -- But this is an electronic sensor that was constructed

I appreciate your thoughts on that.  However, 1/dsquared works on Magnetism as well as electromagnetism (non visible light, IR, light, UV, radio, xrays, etc.).

Try doing your test with the same magnets about 1 foot away.  I would still say that if you take off and the Mavic in calm wind hovers and doesn't move about (from the interference in the stick interpretation) that your controller is not being interfered with.  The interference is in the reception of the RF inputs reaching the drone.  That would vary on devices depending on efficiency of antennaes, signal processors to increase signal to noise ration and amplification of signal.  Also the strength of the transmission.  In my house I have a clock radio that picks up the local FM station.  I also have a cheapo radio cassete player that can get AM OK, but not that FM station because the signal is to weak for it and it is broken up.  If I go outside the radio cassete player does OK.

Like the fact that you are exploring this.  Thanks, Bill
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SkunkWerxs
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Bill in Ohio Posted at 2017-5-5 11:29
I appreciate your thoughts on that.  However, 1/dsquared works on Magnetism as well as electromagnetism (non visible light, IR, light, UV, radio, xrays, etc.).

Try doing your test with the same magnets about 1 foot away.  I would still say that if you take off and the Mavic in calm wind hovers and doesn't move about (from the interference in the stick interpretation) that your controller is not being interfered with.  The interference is in the reception of the RF inputs reaching the drone.  That would vary on devices depending on efficiency of antennaes, signal processors to increase signal to noise ration and amplification of signal.  Also the strength of the transmission.  In my house I have a clock radio that picks up the local FM station.  I also have a cheapo radio cassete player that can get AM OK, but not that FM station because the signal is to weak for it and it is broken up.  If I go outside the radio cassete player does OK.


Bill , Thank You ---- If I was a foot away with the magnet it would have no effect at all on the controller
                             inputs , The reason I done this test was because I had issues in the past with the
                             Mavic controller --  The right stick input values were floating and registering
                             to the Mavic , it would slightly drift to the right and in reverse direction dependent
                             on where I would move too, it would be better or worst like the sensor was too
                             sensitive (maybe it's on it's way out?) I also confirmed this in the SIM showing
                             the flight telemetry and axis input values on the screen -- without touching the
                             remote, phantom values were registering and the same actions the Mavic was doing
                             in the field was happening in the SIM , I did replace the remote --- My purpose
                             of the video is to show that  magnetism can and will effect the Mavic RC.
                           
     I know of no other, what's supposed to be a high end RC system that uses the components that DJI applied to there controller for stick input commands .

Thanks again Bill I will remember what 1/Dsquared  can also be applied to
                  
  
                             
                           
                              
2017-5-5
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thehippoz
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That's really a good question. Bet a lot of people fly on those metal benches or around rebar. I'd hope that wouldn't cause phantom input.
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SkunkWerxs
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thehippoz Posted at 2017-5-5 12:35
That's really a good question. Bet a lot of people fly on those metal benches or around rebar. I'd hope that wouldn't cause phantom input.

thehippoz, In my opinion it's a strong possibility that it can
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PM160Mavic
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Great video and basically answered my question.  I had an iPad mini with a magic mount magnet attached to it so I can secure in my car.  I wanted to use the iPad for my Mavic but now I think I should remove the magnet off the back of the iPad before flying the bird.  thoughts?  Do you think the Scoche magnet is strong enough to cause interference while using the Skyreat Mavic Pro mount?
2017-5-6
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SkunkWerxs
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PM160Mavic Posted at 2017-5-6 12:14
Great video and basically answered my question.  I had an iPad mini with a magic mount magnet attached to it so I can secure in my car.  I wanted to use the iPad for my Mavic but now I think I should remove the magnet off the back of the iPad before flying the bird.  thoughts?  Do you think the Scoche magnet is strong enough to cause interference while using the Skyreat Mavic Pro mount?

PM160Mavic , The magnets I used in the video were regular ceramic refrigerator magnets , you know the
                     ones that that are used to hold notes on the fridge ---- I wanted to see what type the Scoche
                Mount magnet is ---- I could not really get a straight answer  at the of there web page it states
:  Powerful rare-earth magnets hold your device securely in place even on the bumpiest roads.
                                Then it also state
:  The high powered neodymium magnets are 100% safe and will not damage your device.
                 Now Neodymium magnets are one of the strongest types of permanent magnet there is. I   
  would not put one of them any ware near any of my electronic equipment !!!!
If I were you I'd just play it safe and not put any type of magnet near the Controller or Mavic
FlySafe-FlyFree
2017-5-6
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PM160Mavic
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SkunkWerxs Posted at 2017-5-6 13:08
PM160Mavic , The magnets I used in the video were regular ceramic refrigerator magnets , you know the
                     ones that that are used to hold notes on the fridge ---- I wanted to see what type the Scoche
                Mount magnet is ---- I could not really get a straight answer  at the of there web page it states

I appreciate the help. My thoughts exactly.  I will play it safe and loose the Magnet. Thanks again,  
2017-5-7
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SkunkWerxs
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PM160Mavic Posted at 2017-5-7 02:39
I appreciate the help. My thoughts exactly.  I will play it safe and loose the Magnet. Thanks again,

PM160Mavic , Your Welcome , one other thing for the future of your Mavic, Common Sense and getting
                     to knowing your Mavic system an Capabilities over time will keep You and your Mavic flying
                     a lot longer then the average person that just pulls there RC out of a box and goes flying.
                     The Mavic is really a joy to fly --- Welcome to the community
FlySafe-FlyFree   
                    
                       
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fans8e7a06e5
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Here is the video which explains a little how it works.
I think it will not cause any issue unless you stick a magnet or put RC on some huge magnetized object.
start from 12:09

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SkunkWerxs
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fans8e7a06e5 Posted at 2017-5-7 03:48
Here is the video which explains a little how it works.
I think it will not cause any issue unless you stick a magnet or put RC on some huge magnetized object.
start from 12:09


fans8e7a06e5 , I've seen this video B4 , the objective of the person who is doing dismantling was to eliminate
                       the Speaker because of the warning beeping it makes , He points out the most obvious parts
                       and connections with out naming any ?  He also points out and thinks that the stick inputs
                       are created by running a piece of "metal" across the sensors not realizing that they are
                       "Magnets" on the end of the control sticks showing me he doesn't understand a lot of what
                       he's  touching and taking apart and in my opinion this guy probably doesn't have his Mavic
                       any more due to a CRASH  that could have been avoided if he had not eliminated the
                       speaker that also gives warnings when something is wrong within the system
                The only advantage of this video is that it shows how to dismantle the remote and give and
                       inside look of the Mavic controller but what good does it do if you don't know what your
                       looking at or how it operates, he did not explain how anything worked other then if you
                       turn this then it turns this and this is what happens ?--- My video was just simply to show
                       that magnetic fields can and will influence the controller stick inputs as well as the AC.
                You are entitled to your own opinion " unless you stick a huge magnetized object on the
                       RC " you think " it will not cause any issue.
                 Just remember what you posted --- I have no hard feelings about your reply to my
                       post and video --- I have Fact , purpose and common sense reasoning with out the
                       BS or maliciousness towards DJI when I do one of these tests, I do them so all can benefit
                       by understanding a little more about there system .
      "Sometimes the Simplest things are the hardest to understand"               
                       Sorry to go on a Rant ---- No hard feelings
FlyDafe-FlyFree
               
                     
                     
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fans8e7a06e5
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SkunkWerxs Posted at 2017-5-7 05:02
fans8e7a06e5 , I've seen this video B4 , the objective of the person who is doing dismantling was to eliminate
                       the Speaker because of the warning beeping it makes , He points out the most obvious parts
                       and connections with out naming any ?  He also points out and thinks that the stick inputs

Sorry, I didn't meant to criticize your post or video. And I do not think that someone should mute alert in remote. It just the only video I know where you actually can see the internals of working remote and the way the sticks work.
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SkunkWerxs
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fans8e7a06e5 Posted at 2017-5-7 06:25
Sorry, I didn't meant to criticize your post or video. And I do not think that someone should mute alert in remote. It just the only video I know where you actually can see the internals of working remote and the way the sticks work.


fans8e7a06e5 ,  I didn't take your post or video as criticism -- I did not mean to go on a rant , The
                        only benefit of the video you posted is the showing of some of the internal parts of the
                        Mavic controller , The only thing this guy knew for sure and it's operation was the
                        Speaker which is so obvious a child can figure out , he did state and was totally in
                        surprised that there is a Fan inside the remote , I guess he does mistake the obvious
                        cause I can hear and feel mine when it kicks on , He does point out the motor that
                        causes the remote to vibrate but does not explain why or what would cause it to
                        vibrate -- What really bothered me was that he stated that running a piece of METAL
                        not a MAGNET over the control stick sensor areas creates an input signal , This MorOn
                        doesn't even realize that what he called a piece of metal was a "Magnetized"
                        Phillips head tip used for a multi tip screwdriver set-- His thinking of the remote
                        controller operation is totally opposite and cloudy to how it really works and of what
                        I was trying to point out in my video --- posting pictures would have been better then
                        posting an apposing video and listening to this guy talk about what he THINKS
                        rather then Fact.      
                        Knowing Facts eliminates guessing
                        Knowing for Fact how a system works eliminates questioning
                        Knowing the above eliminates confusion ---- For the Future I recommend you to NOT
                        POST A VIDEO in a thread that was started by another Op that posted a video in it !!!!
                        Unless you want to prove that Op and his video information is totally wrong, This is not
                        the case !!!!
                        I'm not mad , what was done just shown me and those who do know how much you don't
                        understand the system and for those that are trying to understand it you just added
                        more confusion to there thinking.
Just a Heads Up the puny permanent magnets I was using to explain how magnetism effects the controller
                        is nothing compared to ELECTROMAGNATISM that can be and is experienced out in the field !!!!
                                      
                           
                       
                          
                                    
2017-5-7
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PM160Mavic
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SkunkWerxs Posted at 2017-5-7 03:12
PM160Mavic , Your Welcome , one other thing for the future of your Mavic, Common Sense and getting
                     to knowing your Mavic system an Capabilities over time will keep You and your Mavic flying
                     a lot longer then the average person that just pulls there RC out of a box and goes flying.

Thanks again I appreciate the help in understanding this new piece of equipment.  I've been flying for three days now and can't stop.

The piece that is attached to the back of my iPad is in fact just a piece of metal that attaches to the magnets in my car when I use it for GPS.  I think I am safe with just a piece of metal on the back of my iPad.  
2017-5-7
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SkunkWerxs
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PM160Mavic Posted at 2017-5-7 12:12
Thanks again I appreciate the help in understanding this new piece of equipment.  I've been flying for three days now and can't stop.

The piece that is attached to the back of my iPad is in fact just a piece of metal that attaches to the magnets in my car when I use it for GPS.  I think I am safe with just a piece of metal on the back of my iPad.

I think you are also , just keep in mind that the controller can be effected by magnetism too.
I'm always glad to help anyone out -- Thank You for your appreciation

Yes the Mavic is like a bad drug , once you start you don't want to stop lollll
                                                  FlySafe-FlyFree
2017-5-7
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bigdps
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It doesn't matter if x amount of magnetism squared doodad and what not, what SkunkWerx did is show how magnets can affect the remote. Of course nobody would put magnets around their remote. However, before seeing this video, I used to carry a magnet picker thingy that was telescopic. Very small, fit in front pocket. Used to pick up anything you might have dropped (I'm a mechanic, happens ALL the time) and never in a million years thought it might affect my remote.

To you sir, thanks for showing a simple problem that many of us might have never known. Would (could) some of the crashes we have heard seen which happen inexplicably, been caused by a user having a magnet in his/her pocket? It could even be a business card fridge magnet that someone handed you out while you were flying. Thanks SkunkWerx. Well done. Thanks for taking chances for me!
2017-5-7
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Griffith
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SW, thanks again for a most excellent demo an discussion.  IMHO, the danger to the RC, apart from a nearby magnet, is that of residual magnetism in other ferrous materials within the RC - a screw for instance.

As for the AC and compass errors, I think they can be separated in to 2 phenomena - (1) distortion of Earth's magnet field by nearby ferrous structures and (2), electromagnetic noise (such as that caused by un-shielded motor wiring or by strong RF nearby ).  
2017-5-8
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AACY
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Again, another great demo coming out of SkunkWerx's Lab.

Thanks!
2017-5-8
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AACY
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What is being done here is a very simple explanation of what will happen if the controller is exposed to an EMF, this is not about magnets but EMF. The sticks on MAVIC's controllers are not mechanically activated by mechanical potentiometers, as in standard transmitters. A mechanical potentiometer with the resolution that it's expected from DJI will need to be quite big (Take a look at a Pro RC Controller i.e. Futaba T18MZ). The whole point of the MAVIC is portability, and the fact that DJI crammed all that technology into such a small controller is almost magic. That's why the only way they could get such a small stick body with the resolution they  have is, to use a system which works by having a little magnet at the bottom of the stick and two or more strips along the borders, detect the movement of the magnet by reading the EMF of that permanent magnet. No need to have a magnet touching it to make this happen or even been close to the source of EMF. if the source of EMF has enough power like a 800KV Power line you will surely be in for a ride.

*Masive Mechanical potentiometers for the sticks on a Pro RC Transmitter, have no issue with EMF.

This is also one of the reasons why none of the Profesional applications use this kind of systems and also, in the more traditional RC Hobby. When you have a gasoline engine running, the EMF emitted by the spark plug will mess your controller for sure if you are using this kind of system as in the MAVIC. Mechanical Potentiometers are the best option but are bulky and require more maintenance, which in this case beats the entire point of the MAVIC. Imagine having a controller bigger than the AC.

Wikipedia time:

"An electromagnetic field (also EMF or EM field) is a physical field produced by electrically charged objects.[1] It affects the behavior of charged objects in the vicinity of the field. The electromagnetic field extends indefinitely throughout space and describes the electromagnetic interaction. It is one of the four fundamental forces of nature (the others are gravitation, weak interaction and strong interaction)."

Cheers!
2017-5-9
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SkunkWerxs
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AACY Posted at 2017-5-9 04:59
What is being done here is a very simple explanation of what will happen if the controller is exposed to an EMF, this is not about magnets but EMF. The sticks on MAVIC's controllers are not mechanically activated by mechanical potentiometers, as in standard RC. A mechanical potentiometer with the resolution that it's expected from DJI will need to be quite big (Take a look at a Pro RC Controller i.e. Futaba T18MZ). The whole point of the MAVIC is portability, and the fact that DJI crammed all that technology into such a small controller is almost magic. That's why the only way they could get such a small stick body with the resolution they  have is, to use a system which works by having a little magnet at the bottom of the stick and two or more strips along the borders, detect the movement of the magnet by reading the EMF of that permanent magnet. No need to have a magnet touching it to make this happen or even been close to the source of EMF. if the source of EMF has enough power like a 800KV Power line you will surely be in for a ride.

This is also one of the reasons why none of the Profesional applications use this kind of systems and also, in the more traditional RC Hobby. When you have a gasoline engine running, the EMF emitted by the spark plug will mess your controller for sure if you are using this kind of system as in the MAVIC. Mechanical Potentiometers are the best option but are bulky and require more maintenance, which in this case beats the entire point of the MAVIC. Imagine having a controller bigger than the AC.


AACY,  Very well explained to be simply understood --- I thought I was all alone on this one
           about the Mavic controller vs. mechanically activated potentiometer controller .
           EMF = Electro Magnetic Force --- I used permanent magnets (MF) magnetic fields to test with which are
                     weaker compared to Real World Naturally Occurring  EMF
           FlySafe-FlyFree
2017-5-9
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SkunkWerxs
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Some New Important Information !!!!!!! This Is Fact !!!!!!!
DJI Engineers were you ever aware of this ??? I think you were , Why not just fix it B4 more people crash there Hard Earned $1000.00 System !!!
2017-5-17
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Matt-and-Riley
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SkunkWerxs Posted at 2017-5-17 04:44
Some New Important Information !!!!!!! This Is Fact !!!!!!!
DJI Engineers were you ever aware of this ??? I think you were , Why not just fix it B4 more people crash there Hard Earned $1000.00 System !!!

I don't see the new info and facts... is there a problem with the Mavic? What is the problem that needs fixing? Got me worried my nephews mavic is about to drop out the sky

Is this related to your DIY shielding advice? Should we all shield our mavics now?
2017-5-17
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SkunkWerxs
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AACY Posted at 2017-5-9 04:59
What is being done here is a very simple explanation of what will happen if the controller is exposed to an EMF, this is not about magnets but EMF. The sticks on MAVIC's controllers are not mechanically activated by mechanical potentiometers, as in standard transmitters. A mechanical potentiometer with the resolution that it's expected from DJI will need to be quite big (Take a look at a Pro RC Controller i.e. Futaba T18MZ). The whole point of the MAVIC is portability, and the fact that DJI crammed all that technology into such a small controller is almost magic. That's why the only way they could get such a small stick body with the resolution they  have is, to use a system which works by having a little magnet at the bottom of the stick and two or more strips along the borders, detect the movement of the magnet by reading the EMF of that permanent magnet. No need to have a magnet touching it to make this happen or even been close to the source of EMF. if the source of EMF has enough power like a 800KV Power line you will surely be in for a ride.
[view_image]
*Masive Mechanical potentiometers for the sticks on a Pro RC Transmitter, have no issue with EMF.


AACY, I know this is the second time I replied about your post#25 in this Thread
          You have amazingly explained my post and testing in a way that I'm unable.
          I welcome your help, comments and knowledge any time , Thanks Again
FlySafe-FlyFree   
         
2017-5-17
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AACY
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SkunkWerxs Posted at 2017-5-17 06:23
AACY, I know this is the second time I replied about your post#25 in this Thread
          You have amazingly explained my post and testing in a way that I'm unable.
          I welcome your help, comments and knowledge any time , Thanks Again

Always welcome, and thanks for your acknowledgments. I always try to share as much of the little knowledge i posses.

Cheers!
2017-5-17
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