Baldo81 Posted at 2017-5-12 06:10
RTH has to be used just in emergencies! It's always better the pilot being in control of the aircraft.

Thanks for advice.

fans41561333 Posted at 2017-5-12 07:55
If RTH algorithm is not good enough when windy, shouldn't it be disabled when drone can detect wind speed ?

This is not about $.  i have agreed to pay for replacement cost. This is about credibility of what is stated in user manual and the performance of the feature itself in wind. The data says it all.  

If RTH algorithm is not good enough when windy, shouldn't it be disabled when drone can detect wind speed ?

No. First of all, figuring out whether or not it's possible to return in current conditions -- which are always changing -- is what I'm trying to explain is very complex. Second, the wind speed alone doesn't determine whether it's possible or not. In your case the wind speeds were high and you apparently flew downwind on the outbound leg of your flight. Had you flown upwind instead it's likely that the RTH would have succeeded.

This is not about $

I never said anything about money but I think we all understand what it's about: you'd like to place the responsibility on DJI for what happened to your Mavic. But while I'm sympathetic, I also think it's pretty clear that this loss was caused by pilot error.

Dronoob Posted at 2017-5-12 03:06
It looks like the drone cannot go into the right direction because the strong winds are pushing it away. Look at the wind direction in your video and look into what direction the drone drifted away.

You are blaming the RTH feature for something that is physically not possible. If the wind is too strong, the drone cannot make it. Others have said it already: You should not have flown that far; the drone was out of sight. You should not have flown at strong winds.

when battery power is about 20% left, i tried to canceled RTH button and try to fly to nearest land but it couldn't make it in time.

bomberuk Posted at 2017-5-12 03:30
sport mode would have got you out of trouble simple ;)

I will experience it first during next flight. thanks for advice. Haven't tried sport mode so far.

un hombre Posted at 2017-5-12 03:35
Sorry my friend, but this is your fault.

You did not study Mavic's limitations, parameters and did not use common sense.

thanks. definitely, i won't lose new one again. : )

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-5-12 07:48
Unfortunately it wasn't power that was your main factor for getting home, it looks like it was wind, get yourself another Mavic you will have learned a lot from this experience, and not much consolation but your video was looking great.
Good luck

thanks, i have agreed to pay for replacement set even before sharing this discussion and hope to get it soon.

DroneFlying Posted at 2017-5-12 07:35
I m telling the fact with data that the drone is recorded that RTH button is useless when windy.

It isn't "useless" in windy conditions. I think what you really mean is that it's not guaranteed to get your drone back to you in cases where it might be possible to return under the direct control of a human pilot. But nobody -- and certainly not DJI -- has ever claimed that RTH is a replacement / substitute for the pilot. It's a convenience that when used correctly and in the right circumstances will bring the drone back to you, but not one you should rely on to make it back successfully.

after all , even how you try word it nicely, doesn't mean the fact is that RTH button is useless in wind and a user is supposed to call back manually ?

I know it's a painful pill to swallow but this is pilot error. For love nor money I can't figure out why looking at the screen you had no idea that this wasn't going well within 15mins, unless you lost transmission. Technology is very good but there is a reason every machine will have a human monitoring it, it goes wrong. Good luck with future flights but remember tech still has limitations, Tony Stark is not real and the Grey matter between your ears is better and needs to be switched on when flying these things.

Grotto13 Posted at 2017-5-11 20:23
I only have mavic for about a month. I never used the auto return yet. There are so many features and settings that if you don't have all insinc with your flying area it Def can get you into probs, ie:too much sun or not enough,water flying or land,set height of the function it self. Even though it may not be windy on ground, every 100 feet up you go, like diving is another atmosphere,  who knows what wind is up there . Sux it happen.when I had my wipeput , DJI was very helpful and very responsive to my inquiries through out repair process and took great care of me as customer. It does sound like and i can see why DJI say pilot error. At least it got recovered to get annualized. I seen some stories where what happened to you happens and never seen again.
Good luck with case

thanks. i have ordered a replacement set.

fans41561333 Posted at 2017-5-12 08:38
after all , even how you try word it nicely, doesn't mean the fact is that RTH button is useless in wind and a user is supposed to call back manually ?

doesn't mean the fact is that RTH button is useless in wind and a user is supposed to call back manually ?

Again, it isn't "useless"; you keep using that word but either you don't really understand its meaning or you don't understand that RTH is still useful in many cases even when wind is present. The fact that it isn't guaranteed to return your aircraft to a specific location under specific circumstances with specific behavior (or lack of it) by the pilot doesn't make it "useless" no matter how many times you insist otherwise.

PM160Mavic Posted at 2017-5-12 06:28
Yes be honest RTH should only be used in extreme circumstances and not just for leisure. It's a failsafw feature.

With that being said?  Fly safe and fly smart.

thanks . i didn't know that RTH button is useless in wind.

Xman1 Posted at 2017-5-12 06:21
This is why in all aircraft pilots sit in the pilots seat because the autopilot needs manual input at times to correct problems exactly like you describe.  You are that pilot, you are the one that makes the final call when something doesn't go right, in this case, the RTH was likely being overpowered by wind forces.  You should have switched to sport mode and flew manually to correct what the aircraft was incapable of correcting against.  You actually had to pilot your aircraft in this dangerous situation.

I feel your pain, but this is not a RTH problem.  This is just a series of errors is all.

thanks for advice. i learnt only RTH button is useless in wind. now, i also learnt that it will be useless when facing sun too.

When a pilot believes that everything will magically turn out ok just by pressing a button then everything is "useless" -- especially the pilot himself.

I feel very sorry for you to have destroyed your drone on only it's third flight. I would be devastated as I guess you obviously are. But as a new and probably first time drone owner, it must have occurred to you to at least do some research for your own peace of mind, the safety of others and lastly your wallet, to understand the limitations of the aircraft you have bought. You wouldn't jump out of a plane without a parachute because no one told you the limitations of human flight.

It brings to mind an unsuccessful law suit that was brought against a step ladder manufacturer in America after the customer who bought the ladder continued to climb up after the last step, and inexorably plummeted to the ground and broke his leg. His claim was that there was no warning to stop him from continuing to ascend. The manufacturer decided to place a warning sign on the last step of the ladder thereafter to avoid such nonsense, which read "No Step".

Read the manual, research the internet for basic training guides, fly with a more experienced pilot or take a basic level course. RTH is an amazing feature, but a bit of time on pre flight assessment would help to understand the conditions you are about to fly under and be prepared for manual intervention and what suitable options are available to you in the event of an unexpected problem.

"Next day, someone found it on nearby beach and contacted me by getting email address from DJI."

I am surprised that nobody has commented on this part of the OP "story"

So he is saying that within 24hrs a person finds the Mavic, contacts DJI and gets his email address ?

I smell BS....

fans41561333 Posted at 2017-5-12 07:55
If RTH algorithm is not good enough when windy, shouldn't it be disabled when drone can detect wind speed ?

This is not about $.  i have agreed to pay for replacement cost. This is about credibility of what is stated in user manual and the performance of the feature itself in wind. The data says it all.  

RTH was designed for emergencies in first place like RC lost connection to AC.
Most pilots cancel RTH when they gain connection back to AC including me.
You can not blind folded flying your AC. All flight data show on controller and your phone, so you should know your AC distance, direction, speed, altitude to control it correctly and safely.

fans41561333 Posted at 2017-5-12 08:58
thanks for advice. i learnt only RTH button is useless in wind. now, i also learnt that it will be useless when facing sun too.

RTH button works in all conditions. Only AC can't fly at designated speed against the wind.

DroneFlying Posted at 2017-5-12 08:02
If RTH algorithm is not good enough when windy, shouldn't it be disabled when drone can detect wind speed ?

No. First of all, figuring out whether or not it's possible to return in current conditions -- which are always changing -- is what I'm trying to explain is very complex. Second, the wind speed alone doesn't determine whether it's possible or not. In your case the wind speeds were high and you apparently flew downwind on the outbound leg of your flight. Had you flown upwind instead it's likely that the RTH would have succeeded.

I've agreed to pay for replacement set even before sharing this post. it costs less than the price for a good lens even if I have to buy back a new set.  Even a stranger puts all effort to contact DJI and drove about 1 hour to give back the drone found on beach.  The case is clear that Mavic's RTH button is useless in wind and I was too new to it to handle the situation in right way at that moment.  I need to share this information that Mavic's RTH button is useless in wind and a new user may still lose the drone even after reading full user manual because it only mentions good things about RTH button.  Whether DJI takes any responsibility or not is their choice.  It doesn't change the fact.

fans41561333 Posted at 2017-5-12 09:36
I've agreed to pay for replacement set even before sharing this post. it costs less than the price for a good lens even i got to buy back a new set.  Even a stranger puts all effort to contact DJI and drove about 1 hour to give back the drone found on beach.  The case is clearly that Mavic's RTH button is useless in wind and I was too new to it to  handle the situation in right way at that moment.  I need to share this information that Mavic's RTH button is useless in wind and a new user may still lose the drone even after reading full user manual because it only mentions good things about RTH button.  Whether DJI takes any responsibility or not is their choice.  It doesn't change the fact.

I am sorry for the loss of your aircraft, in the future I would only use RTH if you have an issue and lost orientation or something like that.
Also, if you fly in windy conditions, head out into the headwind so coming back the aircraft will not be fighting the wind.

K4Unl Posted at 2017-5-12 03:23
And again a simple case of RTFM..

Seriously though, never in those 15 minutes it took to return the thought popped up in your head "Hmm, this thing isn't back yet, i should check what is going on"?

I don't blame on DJI. I love Mavic  because this is something I have been waiting for traveling. I just sharing the fact that I experienced with RTH button is useless in wind and i didn't see it in user manual.

rick39 Posted at 2017-5-12 09:11
I feel very sorry for you to have destroyed your drone on only it's third flight. I would be devastated as I guess you obviously are. But as a new and probably first time drone owner, it must have occurred to you to at least do some research for your own peace of mind, the safety of others and lastly your wallet, to understand the limitations of the aircraft you have bought. You wouldn't jump out of a plane without a parachute because no one told you the limitations of human flight.

It brings to mind an unsuccessful law suit that was brought against a step ladder manufacturer in America after the customer who bought the ladder continued to climb up after the last step, and inexorably plummeted to the ground and broke his leg. His claim was that there was no warning to stop him from continuing to ascend. The manufacturer decided to place a warning sign on the last step of the ladder thereafter to avoid such nonsense, which read "No Step".

thanks for advice.

DroneFlying Posted at 2017-5-12 09:02
When a pilot believes that everything will magically turn out ok just by pressing a button then everything is "useless" -- especially the pilot himself.

if you disagree the fact that "RTH button is useless in wind", prove me how u can call it back only using it in same windy situation.

I agreed that i trusted RTH button and only looking at the change in distance with too much worry without monitoring overall situation which should not be the case.

I didn't say it is useless in normal condition.  

Harbourside Posted at 2017-5-12 09:15
"Next day, someone found it on nearby beach and contacted me by getting email address from DJI."

I am surprised that nobody has commented on this part of the OP "story"

of cos, the person who found the drone was not you and i got it back.

Harbourside Posted at 2017-5-12 09:15
"Next day, someone found it on nearby beach and contacted me by getting email address from DJI."

I am surprised that nobody has commented on this part of the OP "story"

No one will write something in DJI forum that DJI can't verify the fact. I'm surprised why such people exist in the world who are not even aware of there are still many kind people in the the world.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-5-12 09:39
I am sorry for the loss of your aircraft, in the future I would only use RTH if you have an issue and lost orientation or something like that.
Also, if you fly in windy conditions, head out into the headwind so coming back the aircraft will not be fighting the wind.

thanks for advice. I will be more careful with wind and won't lose new one for same reason again.

You have been very honest in sharing your situation and generally fair in answering the criticism that has been levied against you. RTH is not "useless" in wind, it depends on the amount of wind and whether the drone is fighting against a head wind or returning on a tail wind. RTH is useless when the maximum speed of the aircraft in RTH mode is less than the strength of a head wind. Of course the maximum air speed of the aircraft wont change, but the ground speed will. As has been stated earlier, it's possible sport mode may have got the drone back. What is remarkable is your drone was returned to you a day later from a benevolent stranger, which says a lot about the Scottish people, at least that one!

fans41561333 Posted at 2017-5-12 10:30
thanks for advice. I will be more careful with wind and won't lose new one for same reason again.

No problem, have a great weekend.

rick39 Posted at 2017-5-12 10:31
You have been very honest in sharing your situation and generally fair in answering the criticism that has been levied against you. RTH is not "useless" in wind, it depends on the amount of wind and whether the drone is fighting against a head wind or returning on a tail wind. RTH is useless when the maximum speed of the aircraft in RTH mode is less than the strength of a head wind. Of course the maximum air speed of the aircraft wont change, but the ground speed will. As has been stated earlier, it's possible sport mode may have got the drone back. What is remarkable is your drone was returned to you a day later from a benevolent stranger, which says a lot about the Scottish people, at least that one!

You might want to invest in something like this for practice at home:
https://www.amazon.com/Dromida-U ... words=dromida+drone

This will help you practice flying in ATTI mode, there is no GPS on it, but it flies in ATTI mode.

This will help you be prepared for the event when you end up in ATTI Mode on your Mavic, which usually happens when your GPS is blocked by multiple buildings, and yes, sometimes even trees if dense enough.

It will happen, sooner or later.

I purchased a Dromida 370xl months before I bought the mavic so I could have practice flying a drone.  For $249 bucks it is worth it. The drone flys nice and as the above member stated, you'll learn to fly in ATTI mode.  It will also give you the chance to feel the weather conditions and feel how hard the wind holds back a drone.  The dromida 370xl battery life is 12 min. In windy environment i only get around 7-8.

fans41561333 Posted at 2017-5-12 08:03
I will experience it first during next flight. thanks for advice. Haven't tried sport mode so far.

yes its good to get you out of problems in strong wind, if you notice your speed is hardley anything at full throttle then swithch to sport mode and it will cut through the wind a lot easier but be aware there will be no obstical avoidance ;)

PM160Mavic Posted at 2017-5-12 10:49
I purchased a Dromida 370xl months before I bought the mavic so I could have practice flying a drone.  For $249 bucks it is worth it. The drone flys nice and as the above member stated, you'll learn to fly in ATTI mode.  It will also give you the chance to feel the weather conditions and feel how hard the wind holds back a drone.  The dromida 370xl battery life is 12 min. In windy environment i only get around 7-8.

For me, it's too much for just practice.

fans41561333 Posted at 2017-5-12 07:27
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1fpg5kji2joq8zt/MavicLastFlyRoute.PNG?dl=0

If Mavic knows winds peed and direction during flying, what happened to this Return To Home path with 78% battery left ?

It knows! But I think not used in the current firmware to make smart calculation for RTH except to warn in the app. "Becarefull high wind - fly with...."

rick39 Posted at 2017-5-12 10:31
You have been very honest in sharing your situation and generally fair in answering the criticism that has been levied against you. RTH is not "useless" in wind, it depends on the amount of wind and whether the drone is fighting against a head wind or returning on a tail wind. RTH is useless when the maximum speed of the aircraft in RTH mode is less than the strength of a head wind. Of course the maximum air speed of the aircraft wont change, but the ground speed will. As has been stated earlier, it's possible sport mode may have got the drone back. What is remarkable is your drone was returned to you a day later from a benevolent stranger, which says a lot about the Scottish people, at least that one!

thanks for kind advice again. Yes, I totally agree with you that it is part of my responsibility and I shouldn't fly too far in a windy place in my 3rd time of flying. I bought it just before flying to UK next day. I did only calibrations at home and read user manual on my way to UK. I took the whole Mavic Combo box shipped to me to UK cause I was not sure what I would need in the box.   The clips I took at Linlithgow Palace in Edinburgh are considered my first video with Mavic. I was impressed with it and was over excited about flying to the Bass Rock from Tantallon Castle on land next day. At first, I was scared to fly into the ocean cause I knew I might lose it for many reasons. In first try, i called it back manually after 600 m. But, I decided to give it  a try with fully charged spared battery when i see Bass Rock is full of birds when saw it through the scope installed on a cliff at Tantallon Castle. I will fly to Bass Rock again after my piloting skills with Mavic are much better.   That was my 4th trip to Europe and 2nd trip to UK and first time to Scotland. Comparatively, Scottish are really lovely and kind people, at least all the people I met there and I believe all of them are very nice in general. I thought Mavic already dived to the ocean floor before I received email from the stranger. I still not sure it landed into the shallow water or Mavic can float on water. Analysis says it landed into the water and all circuits inside damaged by sea water.  I looked for a store in Inverness next day to buy back a new Mavic for my 3 days tour in Skye. But, it is about 25% more expensive than what I can get in Asia and they only have stock for Combo set. I didn't want 6 batteries with me and decided to go Scotland again with the extra money to spend for it if I buy Mavic Combo set there.  I'd be much happier to pay for replacement set if DJI didn't take 8 days just to open it and tell me to buy a replacement drone while their website is showing to wait 1-2 days to access the case. That's why I say sending it to repair center is not really helpful at least in this kind of case. The only good thing is I don't need to buy the whole combo set again and I just need to spend again for shipping and drone itself.

bomberuk Posted at 2017-5-12 10:59
yes its good to get you out of problems in strong wind, if you notice your speed is hardley anything at full throttle then swithch to sport mode and it will cut through the wind a lot easier but be aware there will be no obstical avoidance ;)

there is only ocean water in between Mavic and  home position that time and sport mode seems the best choice that time. i won't not lose it if I got chance to be more familiar with drone before losing it.

laceyboy Posted at 2017-5-12 12:51
For me, it's too much for just practice.

I got a field to practice near my place. I got it last min before trip and didn't get chance to try most of the features.

laceyboy Posted at 2017-5-12 12:51
For me, it's too much for just practice.

Well not just practice as in crashing lol.  Careful practice.  My fiancé asked what I wanted for my birthday so I asked for a drone lol.  Ended up grabbing me a Dromida.  Worked out great lol.

fans41561333 Posted at 2017-5-12 17:58
thanks for kind advice again. Yes, I totally agree with you that it is part of my responsibility and I shouldn't fly too far in a windy place in my 3rd time of flying. I bought it just before flying to UK next day. I did only calibrations at home and read manual on my way to UK. I took the whole Mavic Combo box shipped to me to UK cause I was not sure what I would need in the box.   I clips I took at Linlithgow Palace in Edinburgh are considered my first video with Mavic. I was impressed with it and was over excited about flying to the Bass Rock-from from Tantallon Castle on land next day . At first, I was scared to fly into the ocean cause I knew I might lose it for many reasons. In first try, i called it back manually after 600 m. But, I decided to give it  a try with fully charged spared battery when i see Bass Rock is full of birds when through the scope installed on a cliff at Tantallon Castle. I will fly to Bass Rock again after my piloting skills with Mavic are much better.   That was my 4th trip to Europe and 2nd trip to UK and first time to Scotland. Scottish are really lovely and kind people, at least all the people I met there and I believe all of them are very nice in general. I thought Mavic already dived to the ocean floor before I received email from the stranger. I still not sure it landed into the shallow water or Mavic can float on water. Analysis says it landed into the water and all circuits inside damaged by sea water.  I look for a store in Inverness to buy back a new Mavic for my 3 days tour in Skye. But, it was about 25% more expensive than what I can get in Asia and they only have stock for Combo set. I didn't want 6 batteries with me and decided to go Scotland again with the extra money to spend for it if I buy Mavic Combo there.   But, i would be much happier to pay for replacement set if DJI didn't take 8 days just to open it and tell me to buy a replacement drone while their website is showing to wait 1-2 days to access the case. That's why I say sending it to repair center is not really helpful at least in this kind of case. The only good thing is I don't need to buy the whole combo set again and I just need to spend again for shipping and drone itself.

Two more things that might help you. You could order a new Mavic in the uk for next day delivery, I know Maplins have stock of both the stand alone and combo versions.
You say you did all your calibrations at home before visiting the UK. It's impossible to say say with any certainty, but it would have been a good idea to have recalibrated the compass  in the UK as you have travelled half way round the world. Whether this would have helped is hard to say,  but i would definitely have performed a new compass calibration.

fans41561333 Posted at 2017-5-11 19:45
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1fpg5k ... stFlyRoute.PNG?dl=0

"For your claimed case, we have already finished the analysis, and the result is as follows:

fans41561333 ,   Sorry to hear about your mishap , Just so you know for future reference the
                         Mavic's RTH max ground speed 22mph (Fact) the Mavic does not read wind speed
                         it can only sense strong winds weather they are Head or cross winds, WARNING
                         TECNICAL INFORMATION --- the way it does this is by GPS verses directional
                         (roll L/R, forward, reverse) motor RPM,  ex. when the Mavic is in motion, motors
                         rpms are calculated for an approx. set speed compared to GPS location, Distance
                         and Time --- if your flying with forward stick input and the GPS senses that the
                         Mavic is drifting Left or to the Right (Cross wind), it gives you a High Wind Warning
                         The same goes for if you are flying into a head wind --- I never experienced a
                         High wind warning flying with a tail wind --- what I seen from your flight track
                         you were over 200ft high and over 4000ft out --- some say you should have gone
                         into Sports Mode -- To me it would have been a flip of a coin if it would have came
                         back doing so ---- This is where knowing you system well could have gotten you
                         out of trouble , You needed to fly by the telemetry readings on the GO4 app -- Not
                         just by looking at the FPV view on the screen ---- what I would have done after
                         seeing that after engaging RTH and the Mavic's distance was not decreasing as it was
                         trying to fly back to me, I would have disengaged RTH dropped altitude to 50ft or lower
                         where the wind may have not been as strong and continued to bring the Mavic back,
                         if the Telemetry still didn't show the distance decreasing then without no other choice I
                         would have switch to Sports Mode --- More then likely it could have made it back.
FlySafe-FlyFree
                        
                              

                                                                                
                        

Unexpected events will always be encountered. You must learn what the risks are and how to mitigate them. Sounds like you have the right attitude... but an expensive lesson no doubt.

rick39 Posted at 2017-5-13 04:58
Two more things that might help you. You could order a new Mavic in the uk for next day delivery, I know Maplins have stock of both the stand alone and combo versions.
You say you did all your calibrations at home before visiting the UK. It's impossible to say say with any certainty, but it would have been a good idea to have recalibrated the compass  in the UK as you have travelled half way round the world. Whether this would have helped is hard to say,  but i would definitely have performed a new compass calibration.

Thanks. I went to JESSOPS in Inverness to try my luck. I was moving around everyday in Scotland that time and didn't try Maplin's next day delivery. I did calibrations again in Edinburgh cause Mavic asked compass calibration again.