bochen7 Posted at 2017-5-21 14:11
It won't be long now. I agree we shall see who is right.

Monday morning don't let me say I told you so.

This forum is not about I told you so, if you want to partake in that kind of stuff go right ahead. It's about discussion and debate and passing on information, we are not expected to agree with each other but maybe to accept others have there own opinions.
If in the future you need my help it will be there for you, and if I need yours I won't be shy in asking.
Good Luck..

PM160Mavic Posted at 2017-5-21 14:19
You can't drive a car without INSURANCE. The car manufacturer made the car but didn't tell you in twenty years after making it, you'd need insurance. You're gonna go after the car maker now and sue them? Lol come on now. Bochen, Bochen, it's the same thing.  Yes your car can do upwards of 100 mph but laws govern you and stiff penalties.  You can't sue the car company for governing your vehicle like they do because the Law makes them.

DJI isn't limiting you at all. You just have to register as you would and have to register your vehicle, airplane, boat and get insurance on them. You aren't forced to, but if you're caught you face penalties and or jail time. This argument can go on all day.

In the US, the registration requirement was vacated by court order. and recently the FAA's registration requirement was shot down as invalid by a Judge.

see https://www.forbes.com/sites/chr ... recreational-drones

But that is not even the real point, you are confusing and conflating the (former) FAA requirement for registration with the FAA as a drone hobbyist (which, btw, was not even per aircraft/uav/quad registration) to DJI's own internal registration and DJI account and DJI Mavic activation which has nothing whatsoever to do with any government mandate/ruling/law/guideline/requirement/recommendation/etc. The FAA never required anyone to register with DJI, nor for DJI to create its own registry list of DJI accounts.

Come on stop trolling.

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-5-21 14:58
This forum is not about I told you so, if you want to partake in that kind of stuff go right ahead. It's about discussion and debate and passing on information, we are not expected to agree with each other but maybe to accept others have there own opinions.
If in the future you need my help it will be there for you, and if I need yours I won't be shy in asking.
Good Luck..

You are the one who started the "we shall see"...

It was just trying to be polite.

But in reality, you are wrong, and I am right. So there you have it.

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-5-21 13:20
I think your Mavic dancing on the bed was fake

I think you story about new release from dji was fake

You accused me publicly and repeatedly of FAKE NEWS and FAKE video.

Tell me how I "faked" this video, or recant your statement, otherwise I can argue you of libel/slander

bochen7 Posted at 2017-5-21 15:02
You accused me publicly and repeatedly of FAKE NEWS and FAKE video.

Tell me how I "faked" this video, or recant your statement, otherwise I can argue you of libel/slander

Maybe take a class action, anyone can make Mavic do that, so a Mavic bounces on a bed hehe.

The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are c*cksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”

bochen7 Posted at 2017-5-21 12:51
If they keep upping the threshold requirement, I will win bigly.

You are aware you can cancel the RTH and fly at your own risk right?  The battery minimum (RTH) level is a very intelligent feature.  Most times more intelligent than the pilot.  It's there for the safety of the pilot and people below so that the drone doesn't fall out of the sky on the way home.  You can adjust these features in the app and fly at your own risk however.

bochen7 Posted at 2017-5-21 12:52
Since you wish to get technical and down to the wire, you are one percent off, so yeah DJI is guilty of infringing. 15% is not 16%

I was using the 16% you originally stated.  

bochen7 Posted at 2017-5-21 14:34
You are forgetting the part that existing users ALREADY registered, and ALREADY activated and ALREADY accepted the existing terms of service and use and have by and large ALREADY flown their Mavic and used the product that they bought and paid for.

You are also forgetting that capping the Mavic to only fly 98 feet high, and with a range of only 150 feet distance and with the Live feed disabled, and other handicaps if the user does not consent to RE-registering, RE-activating, RE-logging in to their DJI account, and RE-accepting a NEW terms of service, a NEW firmware, a NEW DJI Go app, and a new Eula, etc that they will essentially have a fancy paperweight.

If you registered once, what's the problem registering again?

If you don't like DJI or what they are doing......there's the door.

Sell your drone that costs 1299 (fly more combo) and find another company.

In a year when they are doing the same thing as DJI, repurchase your drone and come back.  It will happen, you'll see.

Once again, DJI is not capping anyone to anything.  If you want to have full functionality of their product you have to register.  You did it day one.  So do it again and stop the nonsense.

bochen7 Posted at 2017-5-21 14:45
Has any car maker ever retroactively after the fact sneak into its customer's homes in the middle of the night, without consent, to install a device that checks to see whether or not the driver's insurance policy is up to date prior to allowing the engines to start?

No? then your argument is false.

Unfortunately when you accepted the terms and serivce from day one, you acknowledged that DJI can do how they see fit with the app and your usage of the product.  Read the terms and conditions.  Of course if you can find them.  There is no argument here at all.

This is what you agreed to from day one.  Right off the website my friend.

These Terms provide that all disputes between you and DJI will be resolved by BINDING ARBITRATION. YOU AGREE TO GIVE UP YOUR RIGHT TO GO TO COURT to assert or defend your rights under these Terms, except for matters that may be taken to small claims court. Your rights will be determined by a NEUTRAL ARBITRATOR and NOT a judge or jury, and your claims cannot be brought as a class action. Please review Section 17 (“Dispute Resolution and Arbitration”) of these Terms for the details regarding your agreement to arbitrate any disputes with DJI.

You gave up your right to a Class Action.  They are not dumb.  That's why they are a multi billion dollar company.

Have a good night and I hope it all works out for you.

bochen7 Posted at 2017-5-21 14:57
In the US, the registration requirement was vacated by court order. and recently the FAA's registration requirement was shot down as invalid by a Judge.

see https://www.forbes.com/sites/chr ... recreational-drones

There is a system and procedures.  What just happened changes nothing.  It has to go through appeals and congress will step in and rectify the ordeal.

FYI, I don't troll but I don't like to see people bash a company for no reason because they are attempting to mitigate an issue.  It is happening whether or not you like it.  What you are saying and speaking of is without cause.  Register your drone or sell it and be gone.  This isn't a political forum nor should it.  You have rights just as a business has rights.  Just because you purchased a drone from DJI doesn't mean anything.  THEY are the owners of the App and can do what they want.  You purchased the drone, you DID NOT purchase the App.  You have no rights when it comes to using the App.  It is the sole property of DJI and they are ALLOWING you to use it.  Simple as that.

PM160Mavic Posted at 2017-5-21 16:59
If you registered once, what's the problem registering again?

If you don't like DJI or what they are doing......there's the door.

You are the one who initially made the false argument incorrectly implying existing users refused to register and thus should not be expected to fly. Users who already registered should not be punished by DJI under threat of having their Mavic bricked if they don't re register under a different and new set of terms, coerced consent under deception and fraud is not effective consent.

DJI using threats, coercion and retaliation to force users to under duress accept its new draconian terms is unlawful, and any consent obtained is not effective.

DJI : "Either you agree to our new terms via re registration or else we brick your Mavic and commit breach of contract /terms against and with regards to the terms we had all already agreed to when the Mavic was already first registered. "

PM160Mavic Posted at 2017-5-21 17:05
There is a system and procedures.  What just happened changes nothing.  It has to go through appeals and congress will step in and rectify the ordeal.

FYI, I don't troll but I don't like to see people bash a company for no reason because they are attempting to mitigate an issue.  It is happening whether or not you like it.  What you are saying and speaking of is without cause.  Register your drone or sell it and be gone.  This isn't a political forum nor should it.  You have rights just as a business has rights.  Just because you purchased a drone from DJI doesn't mean anything.  THEY are the owners of the App and can do what they want.  You purchased the drone, you DID NOT purchase the App.  You have no rights when it comes to using the App.  It is the sole property of DJI and they are ALLOWING you to use it.  Simple as that.

This doesn't address the fact that you repeatedly and erroneously conflated a government registration with a DJI registration. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. But thanks for playing

PM160Mavic Posted at 2017-5-21 17:05
Unfortunately when you accepted the terms and serivce from day one, you acknowledged that DJI can do how they see fit with the app and your usage of the product.  Read the terms and conditions.  Of course if you can find them.  There is no argument here at all.

This is what you agreed to from day one.  Right off the website my friend.

Not if a judge throws that part out as not enforceable . Based on the  way DJI is going, pretty soon the entire terms will become invalid.

PM160Mavic Posted at 2017-5-21 17:05
There is a system and procedures.  What just happened changes nothing.  It has to go through appeals and congress will step in and rectify the ordeal.

FYI, I don't troll but I don't like to see people bash a company for no reason because they are attempting to mitigate an issue.  It is happening whether or not you like it.  What you are saying and speaking of is without cause.  Register your drone or sell it and be gone.  This isn't a political forum nor should it.  You have rights just as a business has rights.  Just because you purchased a drone from DJI doesn't mean anything.  THEY are the owners of the App and can do what they want.  You purchased the drone, you DID NOT purchase the App.  You have no rights when it comes to using the App.  It is the sole property of DJI and they are ALLOWING you to use it.  Simple as that.

Not true. Even if one doesn't use the app, it will still cap Mavic height to 98 feet, range to 150 feet, even when flying only with the remote controller.

bochen7 Posted at 2017-5-21 17:16
This doesn't address the fact that you repeatedly and erroneously conflated a government registration with a DJI registration. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. But thanks for playing

I am fully aware of both issues here.  Nothing was confused.  I am aware EVERYONE needs to register again.  Do it or find another drone.  It's simple.

You are claiming DJI is threatening you LOL. are you serious?  They are not threatening no one or bricking anyone's drone.  You don't want to follow initiative, then don't.  It's a free world.  You're allowed to do what you want but stop complaining about it.

bochen7 Posted at 2017-5-21 17:19
Not if a judge throws that part out as not enforceable . Based on the  way DJI is going, pretty soon the entire terms will become invalid.

Doesn't matter what ONE judge feels or believes.  We have a system and the system is made so that ONe judge can't make make or change anything he or she pleases.

Interesting you didn't touch upon the blurb I pulled from the terms you agree to off DJI's terms and agreement.  You have not right to file any type of class action suit against them.  You gave up your right from day one.  Thread over.

PM160Mavic Posted at 2017-5-21 17:37
I am fully aware of both issues here.  Nothing was confused.  I am aware EVERYONE needs to register again.  Do it or find another drone.  It's simple.

You are claiming DJI is threatening you LOL. are you serious?  They are not threatening no one or bricking anyone's drone.  You don't want to follow initiative, then don't.  It's a free world.  You're allowed to do what you want but stop complaining about it.

Essentially DJI is telling existing Mavic owners either accept our new terms, or you just found yourself proud owner of a $1000+ paperweight. DJI is essentially forcing people to sign their rights away by forging their signatures

bochen7 Posted at 2017-5-21 14:23
Nope, I wiped my entire tablet just to do a controlled test.

Essentially, the DJI Go app is always on in the background even when you force kill it from the application.

You may have forgot to check under /Android/data.  There are three folders I believe in total, though I forget how many are in the root directory so it might be 4.

PM160Mavic Posted at 2017-5-21 17:40
Doesn't matter what ONE judge feels or believes.  We have a system and the system is made so that ONe judge can't make make or change anything he or she pleases.

Interesting you didn't touch upon the blurb I pulled from the terms you agree to off DJI's terms and agreement.  You have not right to file any type of class action suit against them.  You gave up your right from day one.  Thread over.

Tell that to Donald Trump.

Xman1 Posted at 2017-5-21 17:54
Tell that to Donald Trump.

Yeah this whitepaper, Dropbox - DJI Remote Identification Whitepaper 3-22-17.pdf

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v4lkyr ... %203-22-17.pdf?dl=0

Just read it.

Seems clear what the new "updates" are all about

DJI is putting in place a system that will make it possible to track all drones in real time all the time
using the same radio that is already in the Mavic

No wonder it comes with the caveat that if you don't login, re-register, etc that you can only fly 98feet high, 150 feet away.... and no live feed.

It all coming together and making sense now...

In the same whitepaper, DJI said no new hardware would be needed, only firmware changes since its using the same radio link
and that it was anticipated readiness for this summer!

Xman1 Posted at 2017-5-21 11:39
Get yourself a firewall app, install a firmware you are comfortable with forever (I'd recommend v0400), and block all drone comms to DJI until further notice.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=app.greyshirts.firewall

Can you do a "how to" on this manner ?   That would be great!!!

Lucas775 Posted at 2017-5-21 19:10
Can you do a "how to" on this manner ?   That would be great!!!

See here

http://mavicpilots.com/threads/i-created-a-vm-so-we-can-all-forever-downgrade-to-400.16619/


https://web.archive.org/web/2017 ... grade-to-400.16619/

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-5-21 09:41
The recent ruling against the FAA , will only result in congress getting involved in making the rules for drones, and look what happened when politicians got involved in making rules for SUA's in Sweden and Canada.
So while that might seem like a victory for drone communities in the interim wait and see might be prudent at this moment.
Class actions are an American phenomenon for this sort of thing, the rest of the world don't partake in such nonsense.

I seriously doubt Congress will "make rules" for drones anymore than they make the rules for the airspace system.
Congress already ruled and the FAA tried to overrule them. Congress basically said that the AMA determines the guidelines to be followed when operating model aircraft for personal, hobby and recreational activities.
Hopefully the AMA will modify these guidelines as needed to better utilize recent technological advances, such as FPV, GPS, various sensing systems etc that will only get better with time.
I believe the line of sight rule is basically too limiting and should be changed since technology has made it feasible.
I have friends with ranches that cover thousands of acres and RC aircraft equipped with modern tech would be invaluable money and time saver for them. There is no good reason they shouldn't be allowed to do this and fly out of line of sight. Just make some sensible guidelines for this type of activity. Same should be true for farmers who can find tons of uses with modern RC aircraft but having to stay always within LOS limits utilization of modern tech tools, not to mention that they want to categorize this type of use as commercial when it is not even done this way for full size aircraft utilization. FAA defines full scale commercial use as for profit, compensated. That's the way it should be defined for RC aircraft as well, not by calling anything other than hobby use as commercial, for profit, being compensated by another party. Here ranchers and farmers can use their own private full scale aircraft as a useful tool, like a tractor or pickup. Of course they have to hold a pilots license and only fly an airworthy machine. Many even use experimental aircraft in this way.

Commercial use is still and will continue to come under FAA authority, regulation part 107.
Even here I think the FAA should be solicited to relax some of these rules. For example, realtors using a drone to take pictures of listings is considered commercial use. This is ludicrous and should be restructured to better allow such a simple and useful activity. Last I heard it was legal for a Private Pilot to take aerial photos and sell them as long as they don't violate existing airspace regs when doing so (that may have changed because I haven't perused the regs for awhile).
Also, if a person owns an airplane and wanted to use it to aid their business, such as a rancher or traveling doctor that is not "commercial use" like it technically is for model aircraft.

Parkker Posted at 2017-5-21 19:27
I seriously doubt Congress will "make rules" for drones anymore than they make the rules for the airspace system.
Congress already ruled and the FAA tried to overrule them. Congress basically said that the AMA determines the guidelines to be followed when operating model aircraft for personal, hobby and recreational activities.
Hopefully the AMA will modify these guidelines as needed to better utilize recent technological advances, such as FPV, GPS, various sensing systems etc that will only get better with time.

I agree.

A photographer shouldn't have to get a pilots license to snap a quick picture or short video for a wedding.
It is just getting to a level of ridiculous.

bochen7 Posted at 2017-5-21 18:43
Yeah this whitepaper, Dropbox - DJI Remote Identification Whitepaper 3-22-17.pdf

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v4lkyr2kdp8ukvx/DJI%20Remote%20Identification%20Whitepaper%203-22-17.pdf?dl=0

Thanks.  This totally makes sense now.

Just let it be known, I won't be participating.

Lucas775 Posted at 2017-5-21 19:10
Can you do a "how to" on this manner ?   That would be great!!!

I posted the process here:

https://forum.dji.com/thread-96803-1-1.html

Note use NetGuard and not NoRoot firewall as NetGuard will also block IPv6 and my Wireshark report on DJI Go showed some IPv6 requests.

Xman1 Posted at 2017-5-21 19:44
I posted the process here:

https://forum.dji.com/thread-96803-1-1.html

For privacy reasons definitely block ipv6.

For those of you on Windows 10, switch to Linux.

I realize for gaming DirectX and some things there is still need for Windows,

Here is how to secure your Windows 7:

video I recorded a while back: https://archive.org/details/Windows7customizations_201603

The atty issued me a C&D

iOS users....  Sorry, I have no solution for you.  Apple doesn't permit firewalls so that they can constantly track you and you have nothing you can say about it.  If you have seen my posts before, I don't know why people keep paying for this misery called an iPhone.

Apple doesn't allow sideloading of apps and everything must come from iTunes too, again to keep control of you, so you are screwed both coming and going.

If your app is not yet aware of the mandate, you can use airplane mode for now, but one screw up and you are going to be shoehorned into this process.

Parkker Posted at 2017-5-21 19:27
I seriously doubt Congress will "make rules" for drones anymore than they make the rules for the airspace system.
Congress already ruled and the FAA tried to overrule them. Congress basically said that the AMA determines the guidelines to be followed when operating model aircraft for personal, hobby and recreational activities.
Hopefully the AMA will modify these guidelines as needed to better utilize recent technological advances, such as FPV, GPS, various sensing systems etc that will only get better with time.

Hi Parkker, I do agree with you that commercially used drones for industry need a widening of rules to carry out the work they do. I do think this will come.
However I'm not to sure of the benefits of not having to register your drone offers to people, except to save $5, I would like those who think it will benefit drone users to enlighten me as to how.

Flying outside VLOS for hobbyists will I'm sure be dependant on how safely this can be done, although these aircraft are well capable of flying further and higher than allowed, from what I read around here particularly the use of RTH where there are many pilots who use RTH as there only measure of getting there aircraft back to where it came from, although there are at least 2 other ways of achieving this a lot don't even know or can't be bothered to learn. This is only one example there are many more I could give you.

We all know that what makes all aircraft safer is the amount of redundancies they have, but if you can't use them they're effectively useless.

I do think with more safety measures and more technology and most of all more training , then less restrictions will be applied to those who choose to train themselves in how to operate and to be safe flying these drones. I don't believe we will see pilots given the right to fly without VLOS just because they bought a drone.

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-5-22 06:11
Hi Parkker, I do agree with you that commercially used drones for industry need a widening of rules to carry out the work they do. I do think this will come.
However I'm not to sure of the benefits of not having to register your drone offers to people, except to save $5, I would like those who think it will benefit drone users to enlighten me as to how.

It is very apparent what they are doing now.  They are building a license plate in the sky that can be scanned by enforcement on the ground.  All future firmware updates will be marching to this goal.

The attached PDF was uploaded by another member yesterday, but I forgot who it was.

Xman1 Posted at 2017-5-22 06:15
It is very apparent what they are doing now.  They are building a license plate in the sky that can be scanned by enforcement on the ground.  All future firmware updates will be marching to this goal.

The attached PDF was uploaded by another member yesterday, but I forgot who it was.

It was me.

Okay Dji likes to think of itself as lesser of two evils. In their mind they rather be proactive than to let governments make it worse and force to be reactive.

Philosophically I don't agree because you don't beat the wolf by becoming the wolf. And whatever limits Dji builds in will become applied to everywhere even in places that have no jurisdiction with regards to drones such as in international waters for example.

Bottom line it's Dji choice to make, but forcing existing users to sign up on the new bandwagon else face having a bricked drone post sales and after the fact is legally, morally and ethically wrong.

adiru Posted at 2017-5-22 06:27
It was me.

Okay Dji likes to think of itself as lesser of two evils. In their mind they rather be proactive than to let governments make it worse and force to be reactive.

I couldn't have said it better.  This is like firearm manufacturers going out and bricking their guns in the name of safety, or car manufacturers limiting your car to 5 MPH since it takes about 18 MPH to get killed.

What will happen is no change in the laws that will be coming down plus we get a worthless drone in the process.

Edit:
It is also making me think two other things - 1.  Jump ship the moment another manufacturer makes a Mavic like drone (matter of time), and 2. possibly make my own.  This is probably where it is at as I will build in exactly what I want in a drone.  A ghost drone.

adiru Posted at 2017-5-22 06:27
It was me.

Okay Dji likes to think of itself as lesser of two evils. In their mind they rather be proactive than to let governments make it worse and force to be reactive.

DJI is shooting themselves in the foot and screwing us over in the process.  Once the govt. gets involved, they just screw things up.  DJI is just helping them accelerate the screwing of us up and providing the framework for doing so.

Xman1 Posted at 2017-5-22 06:36
I couldn't have said it better.  This is like firearm manufacturers going out and bricking their guns in the name of safety, or car manufacturers limiting your car to 5 MPH since it takes about 18 MPH to get killed.

What will happen is no change in the laws that will be coming down plus we get a worthless drone in the process.

Jail broken unlocked Mavic with "free range" firmware is the best of all worlds.

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-5-22 06:11
Hi Parkker, I do agree with you that commercially used drones for industry need a widening of rules to carry out the work they do. I do think this will come.
However I'm not to sure of the benefits of not having to register your drone offers to people, except to save $5, I would like those who think it will benefit drone users to enlighten me as to how.

I am not against all regulations. I just like to see what makes more sense.
Instead of just registering drone and paying $5, I really think if you want to purchase or operate an RC aircraft over a specific weight, then you should have some kind of pilots license that means you have had training of some sort.
The training would not necessarily include demonstrating flying skills, as a minimum just assures the person with license has obtained some essential knowledge and realizes the risks and responsibilities.

Parkker Posted at 2017-5-22 14:36
I am not against all regulations. I just like to see what makes more sense.
Instead of just registering drone and paying $5, I really think if you want to purchase or operate an RC aircraft over a specific weight, then you should have some kind of pilots license that means you have had training of some sort.
The training would not necessarily include demonstrating flying skills, as a minimum just assures the person with license has obtained some essential knowledge and realizes the risks and responsibilities.

Note that this mentality assumes we are not responsible people.  That is the crux of the matter.

Parkker Posted at 2017-5-22 14:36
I am not against all regulations. I just like to see what makes more sense.
Instead of just registering drone and paying $5, I really think if you want to purchase or operate an RC aircraft over a specific weight, then you should have some kind of pilots license that means you have had training of some sort.
The training would not necessarily include demonstrating flying skills, as a minimum just assures the person with license has obtained some essential knowledge and realizes the risks and responsibilities.

Hey Parkker, I'm sure with more training for pilots and proper regulations, more restrictions will be lifted and those responsible will have more freedom to fly to the limits of these aircraft.

Xman1 Posted at 2017-5-22 14:45
Note that this mentality assumes we are not responsible people.  That is the crux of the matter.

Well, sadly not all people are and really many are just ignorant. They see an eager advertisement go get a drone or RC aircraft with lots of modern capabilities that makes it easy to get airborne and all but they have no other knowledge than that. To drive a car one must have basic test. Why not the same to fly a drone over a certain weight?
Early days of RC aircraft people had to build their own. Then they had to learn to fly without aid of modern sophisticated tech like today. Most found a mentor to guide them if they were smart. Otherwise they would likely crash what they just spent weeks building and that would be the end of their RC model flying interest.

I am not closed minded person, tell me what you think would work best.

If only DJI was a public company... The stocks plummeting would have been an eye opener...