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Illegal flights
1019 29 2017-7-5
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Cabansail
Second Officer
Flight distance : 136686 ft

Australia
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Had a conversation with an aquaintance the other day. They know I have a Phantom and have seen some of my photography from it. They were telling me of how common they are becoming. They were recently at an event. There were two Phantoms they saw over flying the crowd. One was quite high and the other was low down. They became aware of the low flying one from the sound of the motors and felt the downdraft from the props. It sounds like it was only about 1 - 2 meters over the heads of the crowd. They were watching it and after about 15 minutes it ascended and flew away from the area and out of sight. The other higher one also left the area. About 20 minutes later they both returned and continued the flying in the same manner. It sounds like a battery change and return.
The comment I got was that they must be very safe to be allowed this close to a crowd of people like that. I explained that what they had described were illegal flights and were actually quite risky. If I understood correctly it would seem that both were being operated together and were being flown beyond VLOS and over a large crowd. One was being operated very close to people.
We have some fairly common sense laws which apply to operations here in Australia. In this instance there was not failure or injury but that was by good luck and the operators were taking a risk where failure would have consequences to other people, not themselves. It is these sort of blatant breaches which are going to have all of the responsible operators lose their privelidges.
From the description I got it would probably have been quite impressive footage being taken but at what cost?
2017-7-5
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Geebax
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Australia
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Funny thing, but just yesterday I was watching an episode of Battlebots in which one of the bots had a garden rake fitted to an arm to take out an attacking drone. I thought it might make a very effective way to get rid of people breaking the low flying law. But I digress, that was an example of very irresponsible flying, do you happen to know what the event was?
2017-7-5
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Cabansail
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Australia
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I am not sure exactly what the event was. I think it may have been either some sort of medieval fair or something to do with old machinery. He was talking about both and I was unclear as to which one. Then it could have been something else too.
2017-7-5
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The Committee L
lvl.1
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People Really do need to be careful where they fly. If your flying it over yourself that is one thing but if you are flying it over people you do not know you are liable for their injuries if anything were to ever happen. Even though bad things like that are most likely not to happen... they could happen, so people need to be careful with where they are flying.
2017-7-5
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imagine it
lvl.4
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It's the usual, "It won't happen to me", or just not using common sense. Seems like there is less of the later these days.
2017-7-6
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embayweather
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This comes around the same time an airport in London was shut down because of illegal drone flying. This generated calls fir all flyers to be licensed, a call with which I agree. It seems the cancer of these irresponsible flyers, I won't call them pilots, is spreading. There actions, as has rightly been said, affects us all. We need to find some way as a group to end this.
2017-7-6
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Bootspike
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Australia
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About 6 months ago, I witnessed a Phantom flying about 3 metres above crowds at a caravan show in Toowoomba. This was prior to owning a RPA and while ignorant of the rules. Dangerous, ignorant and a threat to both the crowds and the responsible pilots out there.
2017-7-6
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Mark The Droner
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One of the many problems of flying a drone low over a crowd is people like to throw things at the drone.  
2017-7-6
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Geebax
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Cabansail Posted at 2017-7-5 17:20
I am not sure exactly what the event was. I think it may have been either some sort of medieval fair or something to do with old machinery. He was talking about both and I was unclear as to which one. Then it could have been something else too.

I see our most famous female redneck politician has been caught on video breaking at least 3 rules by flying a drone.
http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/n ... s-drone-use-review/

2017-7-6
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sky wombat
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Oh well for the Australian based mob it will be interesting to see what the outcome of Pauline Hanson's effort (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017- ... vestigation/8685664 ) . Mind you there is more to this than its face value.
2017-7-6
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Cabansail
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sky wombat Posted at 2017-7-6 05:59
Oh well for the Australian based mob it will be interesting to see what the outcome of Pauline Hanson's effort (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-06/pauline-hanson-says-she-is-not-worried-by-drone-investigation/8685664 ) . Mind you there is more to this than its face value.

It actually looks like she is probably not flying over anyone, but it also seems she had no concept of the regulations.

That must be the first time I have heard her speak when it doesn't sound like she's about to burst into tears.
2017-7-6
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MrPinaColada
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I have two sides to anyone flying recklessly, sometimes some pity as they really have no concept of the rules and don't know the damage that can be done by a falling phantom. But then there's others who disregard safety and law for their own enjoyment, which gets me tempted to report those who commit such acts. In this case I would be borderline reporting whomever it was as flying that low over anyone is not in the least bit appropriate. I'm no drone police, but when it comes to ruining our hobby I wont restrain myself
2017-7-6
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Cabansail
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Australia
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There is a distinction between illegal and unsafe flights. The flight in the OP, if reported correctly, was both illegal and unsafe.  Some flights which can be deemed to be safe are illegal due to location or time. Flights in Sweden and for a large part in Canada could easily fall into this category.  There seems to be a tendency for some to think that it's alright to ignore the laws which can be seen to be overly restrictive.  I can understand rules being bent. When they are outright broken and then the images/video is put on open display it will lead to all of us losing our privileges.
2017-7-6
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sky wombat
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Cabansail: you recently completed a certified pilots course, are penalties more severe on you than non-certified hoi polio?
2017-7-6
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sky wombat
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Australia
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ah so much for spell check sub "polli"
2017-7-6
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sky wombat
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Australia
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By the way I was listening to ABC and the CASA rep was talking about Pauline's incident and didn't sound like they were in full pursuit mode. He did say that CASA was monitoring trends and legislation overseas. Also suggested that complaint rate i.e. those complaints received on appropriate firm (gotta love bureaucracy) were running around 200 per month. Seems complaints revolved around 'breach of rules' but didn't say how the people knew there was a breach.
2017-7-6
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Dirty Bird
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embayweather Posted at 2017-7-6 01:17
This comes around the same time an airport in London was shut down because of illegal drone flying. This generated calls fir all flyers to be licensed, a call with which I agree. It seems the cancer of these irresponsible flyers, I won't call them pilots, is spreading. There actions, as has rightly been said, affects us all. We need to find some way as a group to end this.

The airport was temporarily shut down because of a REPORT of a drone.  No actual drone was found.
2017-7-7
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embayweather
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Thanks for that clarification Dirty bird. I had suspected as much but there was littel about it in our news here. Much more on the dire consequences of what will happen as a result
2017-7-7
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Maxi3D
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Geebax Posted at 2017-7-5 17:19
Funny thing, but just yesterday I was watching an episode of Battlebots in which one of the bots had a garden rake fitted to an arm to take out an attacking drone. I thought it might make a very effective way to get rid of people breaking the low flying law. But I digress, that was an example of very irresponsible flying, do you happen to know what the event was?

I saw that episode too, It was one the EPIC battles. Drones get run over and blown up.
I saw one that overflew downtown crowds during the 4th of July fireworks. Pretty sure it was a Phantom.  
2017-7-7
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Cabansail
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sky wombat Posted at 2017-7-6 23:24
Cabansail: you recently completed a certified pilots course, are penalties more severe on you than non-certified hoi polio?

I think the fines would be the same. The added penalty would be that the certification which has cost a fair bit to complete could be suspended or cancelled.

I think that after going through a well structured course and being made aware of all the potential hazards most graduates would tend to fly legally. Those who want to fly irresponsibly would not enroll in the first place.
2017-7-7
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embayweather
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Cabansail Posted at 2017-7-7 16:40
I think the fines would be the same. The added penalty would be that the certification which has cost a fair bit to complete could be suspended or cancelled.

I think that after going through a well structured course and being made aware of all the potential hazards most graduates would tend to fly legally. Those who want to fly irresponsibly would not enroll in the first place.

i could not agree more. i have paid out well over $US 2500 for the course towards my PfCO. Sadly not everyone can afford that amount of  money. Perhaps making the courses more affordable will encourage more to do them, or even have a cut down version just for hobby fliers.
2017-7-8
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Dirty Bird
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embayweather Posted at 2017-7-8 04:00
i could not agree more. i have paid out well over $US 2500 for the course towards my PfCO. Sadly not everyone can afford that amount of  money. Perhaps making the courses more affordable will encourage more to do them, or even have a cut down version just for hobby fliers.

Two of the many benefits of spending lots of money on professional training & certification is a feeling of moral superiority & the ability to criticize us wee-folk on our careless,  reckless,  & outright dangerous flights...


2017-7-8
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embayweather
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I did not criticise anyone I believe I simply commented how much it cost and how it might be better taken up if it were cheaper. However, it costs nothing to fly safely and follow the rules. For those who wish to fly dangerously  carelessly and recklessly it is of course their choice. They need to co pare that to their own conscience not their bank balance. Those that chose to fly that way of course affect us all, perhaps we should all care about that.
2017-7-8
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Drushgavnush
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Instead of regulating ,banning and licensing which doesn't prevent the idiots ,why not just jam them and down them that way ! I have a portable signal jammer that will down any DJI drone at upto 500 metres ,I know there are lots of laws re broadcasting  and power allowances ,however federal employees are allowed to use them and in my own country exceptions are already being permitted that's why I have mine Prisons have been allowed to use them since 2012 .
No gps no glonass no 2.4 Ghz no 5.8 Ghz  = no drone problem ,Simples (0;
They can be used in Stadiums ,concerts ,prisons and almost anywhere where drones may be an issue !
No need to liscence no need for DJI to play Big Brother,just let people have their fun ! And if they go too far let them loose their drone,they are too expensive for them to keep reoffending and word will soon get out ,if you use it there you'll loose it ,
Signals can be Omni,or directional to focus on specific targets ,I have Moni antennas ,patch and yaggi antennas to knock out specific targets and not cause too much interference to the surrounding areas..
2017-7-8
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Geebax
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Australia
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Drushgavnush Posted at 2017-7-8 15:40
Instead of regulating ,banning and licensing which doesn't prevent the idiots ,why not just jam them and down them that way ! I have a portable signal jammer that will down any DJI drone at upto 500 metres ,I know there are lots of laws re broadcasting  and power allowances ,however federal employees are allowed to use them and in my own country exceptions are already being permitted that's why I have mine Prisons have been allowed to use them since 2012 .
No gps no glonass no 2.4 Ghz no 5.8 Ghz  = no drone problem ,Simples (0;
They can be used in Stadiums ,concerts ,prisons and almost anywhere where drones may be an issue !

Ever stopped to think what potential damage you might do with a jammer, particularly in a crowded stadium, by bring it down uncontrolled. You are morally no better than the person who flew it there in the first place.
2017-7-8
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Cabansail
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Australia
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Drushgavnush Posted at 2017-7-8 15:40
Instead of regulating ,banning and licensing which doesn't prevent the idiots ,why not just jam them and down them that way ! I have a portable signal jammer that will down any DJI drone at upto 500 metres ,I know there are lots of laws re broadcasting  and power allowances ,however federal employees are allowed to use them and in my own country exceptions are already being permitted that's why I have mine Prisons have been allowed to use them since 2012 .
No gps no glonass no 2.4 Ghz no 5.8 Ghz  = no drone problem ,Simples (0;
They can be used in Stadiums ,concerts ,prisons and almost anywhere where drones may be an issue !

Brilliant.

If what you are saying is correct then you propose knocking drones out of the sky when over a crowded area. That would make a potentially dangerous flight into a real danger. An out of control aircraft over a large crowd.

A better solution would be that each aircraft would transmit an ident code which could be received and the operator identified.
2017-7-8
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Drushgavnush
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Cabansail Posted at 2017-7-8 16:24
Brilliant.

If what you are saying is correct then you propose knocking drones out of the sky when over a crowded area. That would make a potentially dangerous flight into a real danger. An out of control aircraft over a large crowd.

The drone would never have reached the crowded area ! And secondly they don't drop like a stone they come down fairly gently :0)
I think you'll find we all know who does school shootings ident or no ident ! But if the firearms didn't work in those areas ? We would all be much safer . 2020 all drones will have aircraft avoidance systems fitted ,then you will be able to broadcast that signal however until then we should just let prisoners receive their packages and the people supplying them will all get nicked because nobody will have thought about indent and purchased a secondhand one or even used a dodgy credit card to get one because criminals don't know how to do that kind of thing ,Brilliant !! ?
At least with active prevention you can stop the offender even entering your crowded area .
I personally would rather not have a family member killed on a commercial flight by a identified Drone being swallowed by the jets air intake ,but hey maybe myself Boeing ,Heathrow and Gatwick airport are barking up the wrong tree . And shouldn't have invested in this technology .
2017-7-8
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Drushgavnush
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Drushgavnush Posted at 2017-7-8 19:03
The drone would never have reached the crowded area ! And secondly they don't drop like a stone they come down fairly gently :0)
I think you'll find we all know who does school shootings ident or no ident ! But if the firearms didn't work in those areas ? We would all be much safer . 2020 all drones will have aircraft avoidance systems fitted ,then you will be able to broadcast that signal however until then we should just let prisoners receive their packages and the people supplying them will all get nicked because nobody will have thought about indent and purchased a secondhand one or even used a dodgy credit card to get one because criminals don't know how to do that kind of thing ,Brilliant !! ?
At least with active prevention you can stop the offender even entering your crowded area .

And Mc Donald's really is a Resteraunt .
2017-7-8
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Geebax
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Australia
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Drushgavnush Posted at 2017-7-8 19:03
The drone would never have reached the crowded area ! And secondly they don't drop like a stone they come down fairly gently :0)
I think you'll find we all know who does school shootings ident or no ident ! But if the firearms didn't work in those areas ? We would all be much safer . 2020 all drones will have aircraft avoidance systems fitted ,then you will be able to broadcast that signal however until then we should just let prisoners receive their packages and the people supplying them will all get nicked because nobody will have thought about indent and purchased a secondhand one or even used a dodgy credit card to get one because criminals don't know how to do that kind of thing ,Brilliant !! ?
At least with active prevention you can stop the offender even entering your crowded area .

'And secondly they don't drop like a stone they come down fairly gently :0)'

You better learn a bit more about DJI drones before you try your jammer. If you jam the GPS signal, the aircraft does not come down at all, it goes into ATTI mode and goes where the wind blows it. If you jam the control signal, it goes home to the owner. Fact is, the Youtube videos of people 'jamming' drones and fortcing them down are pure fiction.
2017-7-8
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Drushgavnush
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Geebax Posted at 2017-7-8 19:17
'And secondly they don't drop like a stone they come down fairly gently :0)'

You better learn a bit more about DJI drones before you try your jammer. If you jam the GPS signal, the aircraft does not come down at all, it goes into ATTI mode and goes where the wind blows it. If you jam the control signal, it goes home to the owner. Fact is, the Youtube videos of people 'jamming' drones and fortcing them down are pure fiction.

Thanks for that ! I have 3 phantoms 2 X 550's  and I often use them for demo purposes ,and know exactly how they behave ,.if you jam The gps and the receiver signal it does not drift away and RTH doesn't work because it does not know where home is anymore ,sometimes they "pop" shoot straight up looking for a gps signal sometimes they wander a little ,but they all come down, usually straight away when all signals are lost nice feature of DJI programming .
I get to select which frequency gets what power and getting the balance correct for it to loose all signals at once was the hardest part to learn but know I've got it to a T .
Thanks for the advice I of course wouldn't post when I don't know what I'm talking about ,who mentioned You Tube videos being anything but propoganda ,and yes there is an American company selling/ promoting their product on there ,I can assure you I've seen it working and it's not the most powerful one on the market nor was it the first as it was claimed ,The Chinese hold those records !
But they do nock all DJI systems out I promise you.
I've earned quite a nice living using my Jammer for the last 18 months and I'm doing quite well for a product that doesn't work ,and yes I do have a lot to learn about DJI products ,looking at this forum I'm not the only one either ! But I am hear researching thanks ;0)
2017-7-8
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