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Mavic Falls out of Sky (VIDEO)
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RoyEP3
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DJI Thor Posted at 2017-7-25 01:17
Hi, Roy. We will have someone contacted you via email soon. Please wait patiently.

I would still like to know why my first case was called "user error."  Are you able to provide details on that?
2017-7-26
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method007
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RoyEP3 Posted at 2017-7-26 10:53
I would still like to know why my first case was called "user error."  Are you able to provide details on that?

I bet they thought it was "user error".  I doubt you will get more than that.

Keep us posted on the outcome!


2017-7-26
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Didiko
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By the way you are totally right about the battery upgrade: it is now obvious with the new firmware upgrade.

Thanks again and good luck with your claim.
2017-7-26
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Bekaru Tree
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DroneFlying Posted at 2017-7-25 13:35
I think what you described is probably fairly accurate. In fairness to DJI, though, it does appear that most crashes really are caused by pilot error, so it's not surprising or unreasonable that it would be their default explanation.

i agree that most crashes are probably due to pilot error - i dont think though that dji should have any default answer.
all answers should be based on flight data and if that translates to user error then they should say so and provide the user with their reasons for stating pilot/user error.
if the data does not show pilot error and they say that it is pilot error then that is a lie - using a lie to fob of legitimate claims is dishonorable.
2017-7-26
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DroneFlying
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Bekaru Tree Posted at 2017-7-26 11:58
i agree that most crashes are probably due to pilot error - i dont think though that dji should have any default answer.
all answers should be based on flight data and if that translates to user error then they should say so and provide the user with their reasons for stating pilot/user error.
if the data does not show pilot error and they say that it is pilot error then that is a lie - using a lie to fob of legitimate claims is dishonorable.

I don't think they're lying, which would imply that they're saying what they know to be untrue, but I suspect that when they're unsure as to the cause they're probably likely to attribute it to pilot error -- and in most cases they're probably right.
2017-7-26
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RoyEP3
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Just to update:  

I got an email saying the repair has been completed and will ship out in approximately 3 business days.  The repair was covered under warranty.  There is NO explanation on what went wrong, so far.  
2017-7-26
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marklyn59
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RoyEP3 Posted at 2017-7-26 14:01
Just to update:  

I got an email saying the repair has been completed and will ship out in approximately 3 business days.  The repair was covered under warranty.  There is NO explanation on what went wrong, so far.

Really happy for you but a friend of mine who is (*was*) seriously considering buying a Mavic is waiting to see what explanation you are given.  That video scared the crap out of me and now I'm really nervous about flying.  An explanation would definitely be in order to sooth anxious customers and some potential customers.
By the way, great documentation on your part.  The rest of us would be up the creek without a paddle and totally dependent on what DJY "says" happens.
2017-7-26
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RoyEP3
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marklyn59 Posted at 2017-7-26 14:41
Really happy for you but a friend of mine who is (*was*) seriously considering buying a Mavic is waiting to see what explanation you are given.  That video scared the crap out of me and now I'm really nervous about flying.  An explanation would definitely be in order to sooth anxious customers and some potential customers.
By the way, great documentation on your part.  The rest of us would be up the creek without a paddle and totally dependent on what DJY "says" happens.

Thank You. I'm anxious to hear their explanation as well.  I got my remote pilot certificate and intended to use the Mavic for commercial purposes, but cannot trust it to fly commercially at this point.  I will continue to update everyone on this issue.
2017-7-26
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Whirlygig
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What is the Mavic doing immediately before shut down... go to 27 seconds in.. @ 28 seconds the motors spin up momentarily faster, the Mavic rises 2 or 3 inches higher then shuts down. It seems to be reacting to something then closes down.
2017-7-26
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Bekaru Tree
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RoyEP3 Posted at 2017-7-26 14:01
Just to update:  

I got an email saying the repair has been completed and will ship out in approximately 3 business days.  The repair was covered under warranty.  There is NO explanation on what went wrong, so far.

thats really good to hear - at the very least it should be returned with a few freebies and a letter of apology for a. falsely blaming you (user error) and b. causing you such a huge amount of anxiety and effort to get a legitimate problem fixed according to their warrentee obligations.
Your approach to remedy your problem has been exemplary.
Still keen to hear their feed back on why it happened at all.
2017-7-26
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UCBarkeeper
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damn, that is scary.
2017-7-27
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DJI Thor
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RoyEP3 Posted at 2017-7-26 10:53
I would still like to know why my first case was called "user error."  Are you able to provide details on that?

As I mentioned, I'd checked your previous case, it might because you did not choose the manufacturing defect so data analysis will not be provided acquiescently, thus it is regarded as the pilot's error.
2017-7-28
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DroneFlying
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It's always interesting to hear the root cause of these problems but I doubt that'll happen because it isn't a widespread problem and it probably doesn't make financial sense from DJI's perspective to do an in-depth analysis. It would be nice to know why this occurred, but the important thing -- since there was no damage to person or property -- is that the OP is getting the replacement that he was due and should have received with less hassle.

By the way, Roy, I know you already linked to this thread but you may want to update the original thread on MavicPilots since the people there were kind enough to try to help and some of them may not realize that there's been an update. Some people participate openly in both forums and I suspect that a lot more who participate there lurk here, but there may still be others who aren't aware of the outcome.
2017-7-28
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DJI Thor Posted at 2017-7-28 03:33
As I mentioned, I'd checked your previous case, it might because you did not choose the manufacturing defect so data analysis will not be provided acquiescently, thus it is regarded as the pilot's error.

Wow.  What a stunningly bad statement.  Let's translate:

". . . it might because you did not choose the manufacturing defect" = because you did not know and tell us the source of the problem
"data analysis will not be provided acquiescently" = we [DJI] won't look to find out the source of the problem
"thus it is regarded as the pilot's error." = therefore we conclude that you are the source of the problem.

Does this mean that DJI will only run a data analysis if the customer chooses "manufacturing defect"?  If so, should we choose "manufacturing defect" by default when sending equipment back for repair?

I just got my Mavic 2 days ago.  Hopefully, this was not a bad purchase decision.
2017-7-30
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Lucas775
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RoyEP3 Posted at 2017-7-26 14:01
Just to update:  

I got an email saying the repair has been completed and will ship out in approximately 3 business days.  The repair was covered under warranty.  There is NO explanation on what went wrong, so far.

"NO EXPLANATION"? how do you know something is fixed without explanation.  DJI need to step up and explain this.
2017-7-30
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DTK
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The same issue will still happen if no explanation is provided. Like in the news about faulty air bags. Manufacturers recall and replace new faulty air bags. That is ridiculous to say the least.
2017-7-30
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PY4CK
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It is nice to know that you are getting your drone back repaired. But it would be very loyal from DJI to inform what went wrong. I do fly the Mavic PRO a lot and would like to be alerted of any possible issues it might have. It is a machine and it may fail at some point, but it is of our interest and duty to use it with caution and aware of any possible limitation or present issues. For that, we do count on DJI.

Awaiting your post to see what they said on the return paper.

Good luck from now.
2017-7-30
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DroneFlying
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MichaelnotMike Posted at 2017-7-30 06:29
Wow.  What a stunningly bad statement.  Let's translate:

". . . it might because you did not choose the manufacturing defect" = because you did not know and tell us the source of the problem

It wouldn't make sense for DJI to perform a root cause analysis for every damaged drone it receives including those where the owner indicated they believe themselves to be at fault for the crash.

Does this mean that DJI will only run a data analysis if the customer chooses "manufacturing defect"?

Probably so, yes. It's not unlike if you were to buy a new car, wreck it, and take it back to the dealership for repair. If you tell them that the crash was your fault they aren't likely to spend any time trying to figure out why it occurred.

If so, should we choose "manufacturing defect" by default when sending equipment back for repair?

If you think the crash was -- or might have been -- caused by something other than pilot error then yes you should. That's the whole point of being able to choose.
2017-7-30
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mixchief
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Griffith Posted at 2017-7-19 07:26
I would have to guess, from Budwalker's data, that the problem is probably due to thermal failure in a main processor input interface. Loss of input from multiple systems - RC receiver, battery, imu, esc, gps  The Mavic goes into a fail-safe motor shutdown.  

it would be prudent to check the amount of time it takes for the craft to fail as it is an easy way to prove your theory of thermal failure, if after a few tests it occurs around the same time considering ambient temps etc, then thermal is a good suspect.
2017-7-30
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PROMOLOZO
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Man i sure hope this doesnt happen to me. I have high hopes for my MP.
2017-7-30
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Kyokushin
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DJI should recall all sparks and mavics.

1kg falling from sky may kill someone.
2017-7-30
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CuaC
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I'd love to hear an explanation of what happened here
2017-7-30
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Phuong Do
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joining the thread to get some update on the this case.
2017-7-30
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Dubwilcox
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I think this situation also applies to me. I had a Mavic disconnect and in fact disappear earlier today. I don't know if it crashed straight down onto rocks or water, but it cannot be tracked even with 54% battery. Gave up search for today. Going back in the morning to look for it.

See my thread about what happened: Mavic Disappeared Mid-Flight
2017-7-31
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Tech24
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RoyEP3 Posted at 2017-7-19 09:11
Thank you all for supporting my case.  This indeed should be a serious concern for DJI and us Mavic pilots.  I had so much faith in DJI and was glad I didn't end up getting something unreliable like the GoPro Karma, which had many cases of dropping out of the sky.

After this incident, I trusted DJI to honor their warranty.  Instead, they blamed it on me!

Hi Roy,
hope this solves fast and soothly (altough it wasn't 'ntil now!!!).

Since owner of a Mavic from the mId of June I want to followup this support issue, on how it will finish.
I also invested on DJI additional assurance for one year.  Hope anyway not to need it.

Mars
2017-7-31
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Griffith
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mixchief Posted at 2017-7-30 16:21
it would be prudent to check the amount of time it takes for the craft to fail as it is an easy way to prove your theory of thermal failure, if after a few tests it occurs around the same time considering ambient temps etc, then thermal is a good suspect.

I'm hoping OP will do that.  Another trick I've  used to test thermal failure is using freeze-spray to cool the components.  I've usually sprayed directly on to suspected components, but a general spray into the fan behind the gimbal should prove the theory.
2017-7-31
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fans502b5e9e
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DroneFlying Posted at 2017-7-28 04:06
It's always interesting to hear the root cause of these problems but I doubt that'll happen because it isn't a widespread problem and it probably doesn't make financial sense from DJI's perspective to do an in-depth analysis. It would be nice to know why this occurred, but the important thing -- since there was no damage to person or property -- is that the OP is getting the replacement that he was due and should have received with less hassle.

By the way, Roy, I know you already linked to this thread but you may want to update the original thread on MavicPilots since the people there were kind enough to try to help and some of them may not realize that there's been an update. Some people participate openly in both forums and I suspect that a lot more who participate there lurk here, but there may still be others who aren't aware of the outcome.

I completely disagree with this ("but the important thing -- since there was no damage to person or property -- is that the OP is getting the replacement that he was due").

Yes, it is great that the OP is finally, after calling DJI out publically mind you, what he was clearly due. But how many others have simply heard the same "user error" spiel and thought "oh well, these things happens I guess" and walked away from an otherwise great hobby. For DJI to say that "you filled out the repair form wrong" and automatically call it user error (which is basically what DJI Thor wrote above) is not okay.

There is also a trend here, where quite a few people thru the years have had to come up with proof that it may not have been user error before getting a replacement, repair or in some cases just a discounted repair. I remember many cases back in the day where DJI stated "you must have performed the emergency stop maneuver" because our drones do not just fall out of the sky where the customer comes back and says he's fairly certain he didn't but oh well.

I just purchased a MP myself about a week or so ago and while I haven't had much time with it yet (five flights perhaps) I've had two (what I would call) almost catastrophic faults where the drone all of a sudden disconnected during flight, no warning or anything, there was free line of sight and no interference. The first time was over a large crowd of people (yes, I had permission to fly there) and the drone eventually (due to a low battery level I think) returned to home and landed on top of the vehicle it had taken off from no problem, the second time it also returned to home, but rather than land it descended until it was about a foot or so above the vehicle and just hovered there like a moron. The RC kept saying disconnected, the app had crashed and refused to restart - eventually I grabbed the drone and turned it upside down which killed it. I'm nit exactly filled with confidence in using the MP again at this point...
2017-7-31
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Bekaru Tree
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fans502b5e9e Posted at 2017-7-31 05:27
I completely disagree with this ("but the important thing -- since there was no damage to person or property -- is that the OP is getting the replacement that he was due").

Yes, it is great that the OP is finally, after calling DJI out publically mind you, what he was clearly due. But how many others have simply heard the same "user error" spiel and thought "oh well, these things happens I guess" and walked away from an otherwise great hobby. For DJI to say that "you filled out the repair form wrong" and automatically call it user error (which is basically what DJI Thor wrote above) is not okay.

i agree with this post - claiming user error when in fact it is not user error is wrong.
2017-7-31
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a_makarovsky
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Hi friends!
As all of us, I'm glad for Roy, but DJI MUST explain what happened to him and in other cases described here.

It's quite clear now they will not do it for us - quite small group of people. It means potential loses on individual repair are not worth of telling us true (potentially the truth would make them recall all of the Mavics).
The only thing which would be more expensive for them is loss of reputation. I think all of us remember headlines in media telling GoPro Karmas are falling from the skies. Such headlines should be a nightmare for them.

I would propose all of us to try to get help from media. Let's write e-mails to guys from Verge, Techradar, Gizmodo and famous tech vloggers, describing the way DJI treats their customers.
I'm afraid otherwise they will keep ignoring the community.
2017-7-31
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DroneFlying
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fans502b5e9e Posted at 2017-7-31 05:27
I completely disagree with this ("but the important thing -- since there was no damage to person or property -- is that the OP is getting the replacement that he was due").

Yes, it is great that the OP is finally, after calling DJI out publically mind you, what he was clearly due. But how many others have simply heard the same "user error" spiel and thought "oh well, these things happens I guess" and walked away from an otherwise great hobby. For DJI to say that "you filled out the repair form wrong" and automatically call it user error (which is basically what DJI Thor wrote above) is not okay.

Of course people have sometimes gotten an incorrect diagnosis from DJI. It's foolish to expect them to always be correct and ridiculous to expect them to publicly explain what they believe to be the root cause just because you'd like to know. The fact that they're willing to re-examine these cases when the customer appeals the initial decision is an acknowledgment that they don't claim to be right all the time and shows they're making a good faith effort to do what's right.

There is also a trend here

Yes, there's a trend of drones crashing. There always has been and always will be, but it would be idiotic to assume that they're all related or caused by the same thing when they clearly aren't.

I've had two (what I would call) almost catastrophic faults where the drone all of a sudden disconnected during flight

There have been many disconnection reports lately, but that's a separate issue from the OP's case where it would literally fall from the sky. Incidentally, I noticed that you haven't created a thread of your own about this "almost catastrophic" problem. If you're so deeply concerned about the problem then why haven't you done more than complain about it in this unrelated thread? Or are you claiming that your disconnection is somehow related to the OP's problem?

I'll bet you've bought other products that didn't work the way you expected them to, but I'm guessing you've rarely, if ever, been able to demand that the manufacturer provide you with an explanation for why it didn't and gotten the satisfaction of finding out. And if you tried to demand an explanation for a defective product purchase by someone else they'd probably just laugh at you.
2017-7-31
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Flemingm0442
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I had this exact same thing or something similar happen to me this weekend. I just emailed support about it as I just got back home from the trip last night.



I was up at a remote lake taking some videos and pictures. I did one flight which was clearly line of sight and took some pictures. Then repeated this same flight. When I was out(about 3000 feet from my location and at a altitude of 100 feet my controller just said "disconnected". I waited and my friend took out a jet ski to see if he could find it and he could not. I assume either this exact thing happened or it flew away? I'm not very familiar with what all the common faults are but I'm sure it is somewhere in the lake or in the trees around it and I was not able to recover it.



I'm not sure if I'm just out of luck or what the result of the inquiry will be.
2017-7-31
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fans502b5e9e
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DroneFlying Posted at 2017-7-31 09:12
Of course people have sometimes gotten an incorrect diagnosis from DJI. It's foolish to expect them to always be correct and ridiculous to expect them to publicly explain what they believe to be the root cause just because you'd like to know. The fact that they're willing to re-examine these cases when the customer appeals the initial decision is an acknowledgment that they don't claim to be right all the time and shows they're making a good faith effort to do what's right.

There is also a trend here

Blah blah blah. I'm not sure if you are trolling or just really dense. The trend I was talking about was where DJI customers have had to prove they did nothing wrong before DJI would honor their commitment. Of course there are going to be crashes, that's part and parcel with any drone (or helicopter, plane, buggy, truck and so on and so forth). Now, if there are questions about where to place blame in any particular crash or complete loss surely you don't think DJI should blame the pilot rather than have a look at all and any easily available information (such as logs and other flightdata)? That is the question here. Having to out a company just to get the help you are entitled to is something that's become all too normal these days and it's just not right.

The reason I haven't posted about my two incidents is because I'm still sifting thru footage making absolutely sure I wasn't somehow to blame. I have seen the reports as well and me posting yet another thread about it adds nothing to the conversation that needs to be had. Once I have something more tangible to go (and that will likely include separate GoPro or Phantom 4 footage) on I will definitely make a post of my own. And I wasn't complaining, I was simply bringing it up as yet another QA issue that needs to be dealt with (my hunch is that this is due to the firmware update I performed just before these two flights).
2017-7-31
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DroneFlying
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fans502b5e9e Posted at 2017-7-31 10:08
Blah blah blah. I'm not sure if you are trolling or just really dense. The trend I was talking about was where DJI customers have had to prove they did nothing wrong before DJI would honor their commitment. Of course there are going to be crashes, that's part and parcel with any drone (or helicopter, plane, buggy, truck and so on and so forth). Now, if there are questions about where to place blame in any particular crash or complete loss surely you don't think DJI should blame the pilot rather than have a look at all and any easily available information (such as logs and other flightdata)? That is the question here. Having to out a company just to get the help you are entitled to is something that's become all too normal these days and it's just not right.

The reason I haven't posted about my two incidents is because I'm still sifting thru footage making absolutely sure I wasn't somehow to blame. I have seen the reports as well and me posting yet another thread about it adds nothing to the conversation that needs to be had. Once I have something more tangible to go (and that will likely include separate GoPro or Phantom 4 footage) on I will definitely make a post of my own. And I wasn't complaining, I was simply bringing it up as yet another QA issue that needs to be dealt with (my hunch is that this is due to the firmware update I performed just before these two flights).

Blah blah blah. I'm not sure if you are trolling or just really dense.

Neither. Unlike you, I'm not new to this forum, nor are the majority of my posts criticisms, complaints or accusations. Nor would I be inclined to fly over a large crowd of people with a brand new drone, with or without their permission.
2017-7-31
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fans502b5e9e
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Seeing as you have edited and deleted some of your posts, I was going to do the same. However, the two minute window had already passed. Never mind. I'll just post my addendum here.

I am not asking for DJI to provide information to me about a different customers issues, the other customer has done so himself. DJI does have representatives here in this very forum however that has offered insights into this very case so it's not at all illogical to believe that we will all be updated once this is all resolved - which we kinda were, the problem is that the update was a "you didnt fill out the warranty form correctly so we didnt perform any flight data diagnosis, sorry pal" response. That is the entirety of the issue here.

If you as a customer had purchased a drone and had it fall out of the sky due to no fault of your own surely you would expect DJI to replace it for you no questions asked. In this case they didn't, they instead told the customer that it was pilot error and he would have to pay for the repair. Had the OP not stood his ground and made a video of this exact same thing happening we wouldn't even be sitting here having this discussion right now.

Had DJI simply performed diagnostics even on crashes where customers didn't tick "manufacturer error" or whatever it is we also wouldn't be having this discussion right now as surely DJI would then have caught the issue themselves rather than having to have the customer spend hours of his time to troubleshoot, send emails, grab flight logs, call customer support and so on. Time is money, and it's not unheard of for DJI customers to be without their drone for weeks or even months at a time after dubious claims about pilot error.

All, if anything I have been complaining about has been the way DJI support handles certain issues. They may not be worse than many other companies, that doesn't make it right though. But the worst part is the fact that you always seem to have to call them out publically to get what's yours - this isn't a DJI thing, this has become an industry norm these days and it's not okay. I have tweeted and facebook posted about things like this in the past where I have been refused help over the phone or email only to be contacted directly by someone higher up in the company once I've outed them. I once had one of the top honchos at MS call me directly to apologize and organize overnighting of replacement product as well as a goodie bag to ease my pain. I accepted of course, but this is the sort of level of support that should be provided to everyone, not just those with a huge social media following. Sony has done something similar, but in that case I politely refused their belated offer of help because I felt the underlying issues at Sony was far more important to air than me getting what I was rightfully owed.
2017-7-31
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fans502b5e9e
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DroneFlying Posted at 2017-7-31 10:24
Blah blah blah. I'm not sure if you are trolling or just really dense.

Neither. Unlike you, I'm not new to this forum, nor are the majority of my posts criticisms, complaints or accusations. Nor would I be inclined to fly over a large crowd of people with a brand new drone, with or without their permission.

Brand new or not, it had been tested on two separate occasions beforehand, 3 batteries depleted at each flight (well, to around 10% anyway).

I may be new here, or perhaps I have several accounts, it doesn't really matter does it. The point is that DJI's policies regarding this are ludicrous.
2017-7-31
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DroneFlying
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fans502b5e9e Posted at 2017-7-31 10:29
Brand new or not, it had been tested on two separate occasions beforehand, 3 batteries depleted at each flight (well, to around 10% anyway).

I may be new here, or perhaps I have several accounts, it doesn't really matter does it. The point is that DJI's policies regarding this are ludicrous.

Brand new or not, it had been tested on two separate occasions beforehand, 3 batteries depleted at each flight (well, to around 10% anyway).

Wow, a whopping six flights? Then you're practically an expert on the Mavic, aren't you? And by the way, flying until you reach the critical battery threshold is almost as bad an idea as flying over a crowd of people.

I may be new here, or perhaps I have several accounts, it doesn't really matter does it.

Having multiple accounts would be a violation of the forum rules.

The point is that DJI's policies regarding this are ludicrous.

The most ludicrous thing I've read in this entire thread is the suggestion that they should do a root cause analysis on every crashed drone they receive. After all, "time is money", isn't it?
2017-7-31
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RoyEP3
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Well, I've received a replacement Mavic.  I don't understand why you couldn't return my original Mavic box that I shipped it in.  And for everyone here, there was no included details of what was wrong with the defective Mavic.  What do you say DJI Thor?

2017-7-31
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Whiskey9
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Check this new Phantom 4 pro falling out of the sky
2017-7-31
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trica de
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RoyEP3 Posted at 2017-7-31 23:12
Well, I've received a replacement Mavic.  I don't understand why you couldn't return my original Mavic box that I shipped it in.  And for everyone here, there was no included details of what was wrong with the defective Mavic.  What do you say DJI Thor?

[view_image]

yeah that would be nice to know
2017-8-1
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ChuckquanUAS
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After watching several YouTube reviews, I was sold on the performance this drone is capable of doing for commerical use. Further research led me to your video, which dismissed my eagerness to really want this product.

On a personal level, it's good to hear you got your drone back. On an community/industry level, it'd be best for DJI to provide some data analysis to prevent future encounters of this frightening experience. We need to know the cause of this "user error" if we're to avoid it. As Cryhavoc38 and DroneFlying touched on, DJI cant analyze every crash that's submitted to them. That's understandable. This incident (using 49 CFR 830.2 definition) affects the safety of operations, and the probability of a drone strike from this possible defect doesn't seem like it's being made a high concern.

I am a new user and do not own any DJI products personally, but safety is number one.
I created this account mainly to comment and stay informed with further information. Best of luck.
2017-8-1
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