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Urgent - Phantom 3 standard flew away!
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1822 101 2017-7-31 06:25:44
WayOutWoodPond
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Labroides Posted at 2017-8-2 04:09
????
The flight data comes from GPS.
Why do you think it might be inaccurate?

I agree, but the OP says he was not flying in a restricted area. the flight data says he was. I don't think the data is inaccurate.
2017-8-2 04:11:37
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Hans Sanchez
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WayOutWoodPond Posted at 2017-8-2 04:11
I agree, but the OP says he was not flying in a restricted area. the flight data says he was. I don't think the data is inaccurate.

Guys come on man I'm just trying to find my lost drone, it's clear DJI are going to rule this pilot error so I'm just more focused on trying to recoup the £500 that flew away from me that I had for less than a month
2017-8-2 05:08:01
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Labroides Posted at 2017-8-2 03:54
We have the co-ordinates of the last registered location. Are you suggesting that the aircraft is not at the last known co-ordinates because they are inaccurate?

I don't know what co-ordinates you have.

I am merely wondering if there exists the possibility that the aircraft is not at it's last recorded location - and if that possibility exists then could you speculate as to why it may not be there.

I've read on other forums about GPS malfunctioning and people looking for their lost drones in places miles away from where it actually is all because of a GPS malfunction.

But if, looking at my log, you are confident that it should be there; then could you give me any pointers or at least a personal opinion as to what YOU would do if you had these last recorded co-ordinates and were trying to find it. You did suggest to me to look in a circle around the area, the day I did go I did not do that, I just went to the co-ordinate on google maps and looked up & down. From the map; surely it can't be too far from the last recorded location? I'm honestly so sorry to pester you with questions upon questions, but it's honestly the hope that kills me. Once DJI sent me these co-ordinates, I was under the impression I'd find it no problem. Bare in mind it has also been raining a lot (EVERY SINGLE BLOODY DAY) and very windy since the incident happened 6 days ago.
2017-8-2 05:15:06
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2017-8-2 05:32:32
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Knobbynomates
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Labroides Posted at 2017-8-2 05:32
Is the location I quoted the same as you were using?
I think whatever you've read that made you wonder about GPS malfunctioning is not accurate.
GPS is very reliable - a lot more reliable than the people that might be using it.

If I'd lost my drone I would do what Labroides suggests
2017-8-2 06:39:15
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Hans Sanchez
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Labroides Posted at 2017-8-2 05:32
Is the location I quoted the same as you were using?
I think whatever you've read that made you wonder about GPS malfunctioning is not accurate.
GPS is very reliable - a lot more reliable than the people that might be using it.

Yep, same one

Ok thanks, heading out there now to have a look and wander around the supposed crash site.
2017-8-2 07:45:17
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CHEOLK
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The same thing happened to me. I brought it down manually but then it suddenly shot up. Luckily there was a tree there and the branches trapped it. I I had to use three long poles, joined together, and brought it down. Something is wrong somewhere, not pilot errors. I did nothing. Another time, it suddenly lost height and plummet down into a tree and I had to pay people to get it down for me. Every time I fly, I pray to the sky God.
2017-8-2 09:50:34
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2017-8-2 14:13:33
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BirdsiLife
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Big loss for sure... I'd buy another one... and study the heck out of it, and insure it.
2017-8-2 15:35:54
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epicdoom0
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If it landed in the top branches of the trees it could be very difficult to see with all the foliage. the landing gear on the Phantoms lends itself to being hook especially by tree limbs and branches. if it were my drone Id take the  last known info punch it into my GPS unit and I'd spend the whole day carefully searching in a circular and grid pattern around the site for a min 100 yards just to be thorough. try taking a small set of binoculars with you to look in the trees I'd also make sure I had good GPS signal in all that tree coverage its sometimes hard to get and or keep a good signal. if your friend has a drone with a camera have him fly over looking into the tree tops
2017-8-2 17:41:51
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blackcrusader
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Hans Sanchez Posted at 2017-8-2 05:08
Guys come on man I'm just trying to find my lost drone, it's clear DJI are going to rule this pilot error so I'm just more focused on trying to recoup the £500 that flew away from me that I had for less than a month

I have been trying to get my drone to fly away since I bought it.  It has always returned. Shut off DJI App and RC and it returns. Gets to low battery status it returns. What you need to accept is that you had no clue as to the input commands where you changed your home point mid flight then initiated an RTH command.  Then you want to blame DJI because in your state of panic you were the cause of your drone flying elsewhere.

This is another case of a pilot who does not understand the commands he is issuing to the drone then complaining it flew away.  Your drone did not fly away, you commanded it to fly to a different location.  
2017-8-2 17:47:18
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Michgolden
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On a side note, when you first powered on the motors did you hear the app state that "The home point has been updated, please check it on the map". If so did you look on the map and see the "H" exactly where you were? That is the absolute first thing to double check when taking off. Also good luck finding it, hope you are successful.
2017-8-2 19:13:30
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Hans Sanchez
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blackcrusader Posted at 2017-8-2 17:47
I have been trying to get my drone to fly away since I bought it.  It has always returned. Shut off DJI App and RC and it returns. Gets to low battery status it returns. What you need to accept is that you had no clue as to the input commands where you changed your home point mid flight then initiated an RTH command.  Then you want to blame DJI because in your state of panic you were the cause of your drone flying elsewhere.

This is another case of a pilot who does not understand the commands he is issuing to the drone then complaining it flew away.  Your drone did not fly away, you commanded it to fly to a different location.

Where is your common sense?
2017-8-3 02:22:07
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Hans Sanchez
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Michgolden Posted at 2017-8-2 19:13
On a side note, when you first powered on the motors did you hear the app state that "The home point has been updated, please check it on the map". If so did you look on the map and see the "H" exactly where you were? That is the absolute first thing to double check when taking off. Also good luck finding it, hope you are successful.

Thank you - I will keep you posted.
2017-8-3 02:22:23
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blackcrusader
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Hans Sanchez Posted at 2017-8-3 02:22
Where is your common sense?

My common sense? I used that to download and read the manual several times.

I practiced at my local track and field before testing all the commands both in GPS and Atti mode.  I fly my drone at altitudes that most people can only dream of.  I fly my drone to it's full capabilities as well as knowing my own. Thing is, you wrote you did not know what you were doing and issued commands in a state of panic.  So the question really should be, where was your common sense because if you had any you would not have panicked and flown your drone away.

I Left my commonsense somewhere above the clouds....  
2017-8-3 02:43:47
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solentlife
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Having had a situation where battery went well below warning and then into critical ... the Standard has not the same possibilities as the Adv and Pro.

Once it hits low critical battery ... 10% is a fixed limit by DJI by the way ... - the Standard initiates Auto Land at that spot. You can affect the landing point by edging it one way or another and slow it down - but not stop it. If there's any wind or air movements - that can really upset that downward path.

As I found with my critical land ... the last position was relatively close to actual spot. BUT position on screen / log indicated ON land ... but the actual was in the water some 10m or so away ...

There is also another way to try and 'see' what happened in addition to the dat / txt log files ... if the App has default cache of incoming video - you can watch that and see the final moments.

For anyone with patience ... this video is my go and find my lost P3S ... you can scroll forward to 10:30 to avoid all the 5km flight bit ..



I'm lucky that I own boats ... so can do this ... but to be honest - I wish I had lost it completely - it now sits there totally useless and stares at me reminding me of what a 'berk' I was that day !!  If I hadn't done the short return and back out again in the early part or paid more attention to the wind - she would still be flying today !

Anyway - the video shows how I used the tablet last display to find it ... zooming in at the end to get closer ...

Nigel
2017-8-3 03:11:23
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Hans Sanchez
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blackcrusader Posted at 2017-8-3 02:43
My common sense? I used that to download and read the manual several times.

I practiced at my local track and field before testing all the commands both in GPS and Atti mode.  I fly my drone at altitudes that most people can only dream of.  I fly my drone to it's full capabilities as well as knowing my own. Thing is, you wrote you did not know what you were doing and issued commands in a state of panic.  So the question really should be, where was your common sense because if you had any you would not have panicked and flown your drone away.

That's fantastic - congratulations
2017-8-3 04:27:31
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Hans Sanchez
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solentlife Posted at 2017-8-3 03:11
Having had a situation where battery went well below warning and then into critical ... the Standard has not the same possibilities as the Adv and Pro.

Once it hits low critical battery ... 10% is a fixed limit by DJI by the way ... - the Standard initiates Auto Land at that spot. You can affect the landing point by edging it one way or another and slow it down - but not stop it. If there's any wind or air movements - that can really upset that downward path.

Just watched your video Nigel, looks not too dissimilar from what happened to me. Same style of area too. I think mine's crashed in the water, or been blown into it. The last recorded GPS was not too far from the water in the woods, and it has been raining a lot and quite windy since,  and after many days of searching; by process of elminiation I must assume it has gone in there.

Shame that this happens, seems totally unexpected. Lucky you found yours. Did you manage to get it repaired or are you no longer interested in flying it after that? Tell you the truth even if I did find mine I don't think I have much desire to fly it after that...
2017-8-3 04:29:38
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Steve Slechta
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solentlife Posted at 2017-8-3 03:11
Having had a situation where battery went well below warning and then into critical ... the Standard has not the same possibilities as the Adv and Pro.

Once it hits low critical battery ... 10% is a fixed limit by DJI by the way ... - the Standard initiates Auto Land at that spot. You can affect the landing point by edging it one way or another and slow it down - but not stop it. If there's any wind or air movements - that can really upset that downward path.

Thanks for sharing Nigel. Very good information on battery management and lesson learned.
2017-8-3 05:00:05
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blackcrusader
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Hans Sanchez Posted at 2017-8-3 04:27
That's fantastic - congratulations

Well maybe you will come to the realization your fly away was your own error.  Common sense shows that from your flight data. The drone did as you commanded it to do.  You panicked and lost your drone. Not the first person to have done so who does not know what they are doing.

I do not see how you expect DJI to cough up money for your own pilot error.  Did you take off from nearby railway tracks? You were getting warnings about interference but just kept on flying.  However your own statements from your own posts are pretty damning. You did not know what you were doing then panicked.  It's a terrible thing to happen for sure, but you need to understand what your own actions were that contributed to your drone being lost.  

What you wrote "I can't have lost this very expensive aircraft, through no fault of my own, and just accept the fact it's gone just like that."

What you can do is accept that you lost your drone due to your own pilot error.  
2017-8-3 06:14:50
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blackcrusader
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Steve Slechta Posted at 2017-8-3 05:00
Thanks for sharing Nigel. Very good information on battery management and lesson learned.

You may also find this thread worth reading.

http://forum.dji.com/thread-89101-1-1.html
2017-8-3 06:53:18
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Steve Slechta
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blackcrusader Posted at 2017-8-3 06:53
You may also find this thread worth reading.

http://forum.dji.com/thread-89101-1-1.html

Nice info on that post too. Thank You. I did like the info on intentional draining. I do that with other battery equipment.
2017-8-3 07:07:26
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blackcrusader
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Steve Slechta Posted at 2017-8-3 07:07
Nice info on that post too. Thank You. I did like the info on intentional draining. I do that with other battery equipment.

I like these forums to share information on. Including our own flight issues or self induced pilot errors.
The critical low battery came from flying my drone at max height in a very strong wind while basically hovering to take a 10 minute video.   I had flown into a headwind so when I got the warning I had both height and distance to recover my drone and was actually back into the green on power as my drone flew home at over 50mph with the tailwind.  I have found no difference in battery performance flying my drone above 10000 feet altitude or at sea level.  Other factors like wind speeds affect power consumption much more than just thinner air at altitude.
2017-8-3 08:51:30
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solentlife
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Power demand ....

It always surprises me that 'experienced' Phantom owners advise people to manually fly home when battery level going down ... this is EXACTLY THE WORST thing to do.

The Flight controller sets RTH speed at optimum based on GPS / compass / barometer data. The speed of RTH is not a fixed lower speed as they suggest - but varies depending on conditions Flight Controller experiences. Using algorithms it sets what it believes to be most efficient to extract maximum distance capability going home ... this is not a fixed wing where we can use speed that morphs into glide slope when power goes off !!
If you cancel and fly manually - you effectively over-ride that and it is just like you switching off Cruise Control in your car.  CC will return far better MPG than you trying to maintain same speed ...

If you have minimum battery to get home and the RTH has kicked in ... LEAVE IT ALONE ... let it come home and once in safe area - take over to land it.

Nigel
2017-8-3 09:51:57
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epicdoom0
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solentlife Posted at 2017-8-3 09:51
Power demand ....

It always surprises me that 'experienced' Phantom owners advise people to manually fly home when battery level going down ... this is EXACTLY THE WORST thing to do.

absolutely Truth Nigel. If I ever had that situation I would rely on the electronics to take over as apposed to switching to manual flight. and the cruse control analogy is perfect.    I set my reminder to 30% and critical at 10% but I rarely fly past 2K distance at 300ft alt I am by the book on these settings when I get the warning at 30 I bring it back overhead and take pics from 300ft up, at 20% I start bringing it down. I've never hit the critical warning. I have 8 batteries for my drone I would rather be safe and swap out a battery even if it means loosing 5 min of flight time. I fly all my Planes this way as well. I usually always try to approach my flight path that will bring me back with a tail wind, but that's not always an option. I personally would never take off with less then 90% battery power. after loosing a lot of planes and countless dollars tied up into them I learned to be strict about my flight and I wont waiver from it for any reason. My chief financial advisor AKA WIFE appreciates it greatly lol  
2017-8-3 14:30:37
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2017-8-3 14:48:31
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solentlife
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Labroides Posted at 2017-8-3 14:48
The Flight controller sets RTH speed at optimum based on GPS / compass / barometer data. The speed of RTH is not a fixed lower speed as they suggest - but varies depending on conditions Flight Controller experiences. Using algorithms it sets what it believes to be most efficient to extract maximum distance capability going home

That's a nice theory ...  the only problem is that actual data and experience shows that it isn't true.

Rubbish and this is a matter that I have proven before ...

All you need to do is watch the video above I loaded ...

Where do you get this 10m/s from ?? The only horizontal speed stated by DJI is 16m/s in ATTI mode.

Given all the testing of FW / Apps that I did for months with max range ... and ALL using RTH .... the speeds varied not only because of winds but also range to get back and battery available.

ANY vehicle that has auto speed control as well as manual will be more efficient in auto. Given all the other 'safety' factors that DJI have built into the P3 - you believe that this fundamental basic item is left out ?
Have you ever monitored the energy drain on a battery such as a LiPo ? Its exponential and as you get into the higher levels its increase per % is huge ! Being a wide ranging LiPO user from Racing ... Aerobatics ... boating ... drones ... - knowledge of LiPo use is important. Its like getting best mpg out of your car ...

I agree that we will probably continue to disagree on this .... no problem ... I know what I have observed and experienced.

Nigel
2017-8-4 00:33:05
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blackcrusader
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When I had my critical low power at 35% I thought OK time to get my my bird home asap. As I was at max height and at distance I put the left stick lock into place and also full throttle all the way home in GPS mode.  Not Atti or sports mode. So my app was showing red power warning levels but before the drone was at home point I was back to green power levels and normal voltage levels. 35% critical low battery and 26% normal power levels before my P3S was at home point. You can see the clouds above the drone ripping into the sunrise.  I was hovering for ten minutes which is harder for the drone to work.

I got home at over 22m/s in RTH in GPS mode with full throttle. That tailwind was pushing. As I had to descend anyway I brought her down as fast as possible and also to home as fast as possible. I believe doing so saved my drone from a complete loss of power as the power levels improved and went back to normal levels.  If I had left the drone to auto descend and RTH at normal speed I believe my drone may not have made it back home.  My humble opinion.

She sure did work hard to get this wonderful video. Now for the OP, if I had caused my drone to crash I would have accepted I flew my drone to almost a complete power failure.
It would have been my fault but as soon as I got the warning I made the correct decision and did not panic to get my drone home. If I had failed in that mission I would have said, oops, pilot error if I had continued to fly and ignore the warnings. Watch the clouds below and above the drone. The winds above were rocketing towards the sunrise.  Good thing I knew that I had a tailwind as I could see them on my live video.  It was also in winter and it was probably -10c plus wind chill factor where the DJI Starship Blackcrusader was flying.
It gets cold at over 10000 feet altitude in winter even with no winds.

2017-8-4 02:06:51
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2017-8-4 02:19:02
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blackcrusader
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Plus ... 10 m/s is not the most efficient speed and will waste battery by having to keep the Phantom in the air for longer. If you are concerned about getting the most distance out of a battery you want to fly faster than 10m/s."

I do believe that holds true as my long distance flights have also use max throttle speeds to when RTH initiates then max throttle home.  I've had more distance from flying fast than slowly.
Full Throttle most of the way out and back.

2017-8-4 02:25:51
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solentlife
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BC .. "When I had my critical low power at 35% I thought OK time to get my my bird home asap. As I was at max height and at distance I put the left stick lock into place and also full throttle all the way home in GPS mode." ....

Locking left stick and then forcing max speed forward creates a trajectory slope. You would gain range because of the glide angle against RTH which flies level and then descends - but you lose the advantage by gobbling up LiPo power in pushing the throttle full ...

LiPo recovery - already you have posted another that you believed 40% battery was used in landing ... but then understood it was mis-reported ?

Sorry but I have seen my battery levels dip on screen when high demand and bounce back up when demand eased .. that's just battery resistance to supply when high demand. Go fly normal models and you can easily have a battery as it goes down give alarm or even LVC on  an ESC ... ease the throttle back and bingo - your flying again ...
LiPo's do not conjure up energy .... you get what is commonly termed ' bounce back' or recovery due to reduced demand not banging up against internal resistance so hard.

As to using the screen - I counter L's statement precisely the same way .. by the hundreds of flights and my usual use of RTH ... particularly during the tests I conducted of FW / Apps and Antenna systems over months ... literally multi flights each day ... RTH speed varied even allowing for wind direction / speed ...

Run time of a LiPo is exponential ... the greater the demand - the greater the RATE of decrease of charge energy ... ask any RC model flyer ...

Flying at max speed may work with a fixed wing where the model can convert the speed into glide when battery finally gives out ... but in a P3 ?? Its a brick when those props stop.

Lets look at the video above ...

Over 60kph that's over 16m/s ....
On RTH she was over 30kph .. over 8m/s

I'll leave you to watch and get the actual figures .. with your 10m/s - how is she going to RTH in that video at the speed you say its fixed at ?

DJI themselves do not state anywhere a fixed speed for RTH ... funny you think they would considering they quote others ... maybe 10m/s is max speed anyway in P-GPS mode and still air ?

When I posted my test videos earlier in the year ... and when I have info that I think can be useful - I do a full screen record - so others can take info off the screen and not have to believe what I report... its there.
Simple really ... anyone going through my Youtube collection can also verify ... "solentlifeuk" ...

I'm closing down on this debate as I see its a road to nowhere. I leave it to others to decide for themselves.

Nigel
2017-8-4 03:22:22
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2017-8-4 03:28:05
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WD9EON
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It looks like Hans has given up the search for his drone?  Looks like it's turned into a chest thumping contest which has nothing to do with helping him find the drone.   Good luck Hans, I hope you find your drone and are able to salvage it to return to the air.
2017-8-4 03:36:28
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solentlife
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Labroides Posted at 2017-8-4 03:28
DJI themselves do not state anywhere a fixed speed for RTH ... funny you think they would considering they quote others ...
It doesn't matter what and whether DJI quote anything.
Anyone can see for themselves what speeds a Phantom does in various situations.

10m/s P-GPS - It was a joke question ...

You really are impossible ...

Have a good life ...
2017-8-4 04:27:10
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2017-8-4 05:36:55
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solentlife
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L - I was not going to rise to your incessant rubbish - but I have given link to my videos many times ...

I don't need to spout techno babble like some do - as the videos themselves prove my points ...

I have gone back and re-looked to see if I could be mistaken ... but the videos and the data collected do not lie.

There are many there covering many flights and tests - all showing varying data that shows you talk a lot of rubbish.

I can only assume that you consider yourself such expert because not many have questioned your 'info' often enough. Times change mate - I'm not so gullible to swallow it.

You can call me what you like, you can say what you like about my theories, observations and evidence presented such as the videos  - doesn't change the fact that you are wrong again.

Time for you to actually learn about LiPo's and power drain ... and basics of Phantoms ... instead of spreading myths !!

Bye Bye ... I will not return to this thread as you obviously consider it your Court.

Nigel
2017-8-4 07:31:58
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2017-8-4 14:17:39
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Michgolden
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If you are driving along a hilly road and you have your cruise control on in your car it will simply let off the gas on your way down a hill and accelerate hard going back up the next hill to maintain a constant speed, not as efficient as if you were manually accelerating on your way down a hill and using that energy to help you up the next hill. So not always is auto better than manual. Just another way to look at it IMHO.
2017-8-4 16:44:50
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Michgolden
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Hans, hopefully you find your bird and it's salvageable. Keep us posted.
2017-8-4 16:48:46
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blackcrusader
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Labroides Posted at 2017-8-4 03:28
DJI themselves do not state anywhere a fixed speed for RTH ... funny you think they would considering they quote others ...
It doesn't matter what and whether DJI quote anything.
Anyone can see for themselves what speeds a Phantom does in various situations.

I have looked at my flights where I used RTH to bring my drone back to home point. I do that pretty much on most flights.  If you use the DJI Go app and go to the cloud server for each flight you can follow the flight. Click on the RC icon to show your stick positions.   All my RTH speeds when no stick input has been used for speed have been around 10m/s horizontal speed.  This is true even when I am using left stick to reduce my height at over 2m/s vertical speed.  I am in mainland China atm and posting screenshots from my smartphone is rather difficult.  But they will show for flights where RTH is initiated that drone maintains around 10m/s horizontal speed with no throttle stick input.  




2017-8-4 16:57:16
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