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US ARMY abort DJI drones
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3080 115 2017-8-4 09:17:42
SFC57
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very interesting article not looking good for DJI what do you think is happening

http://www.theregister.co.uk/201 ... emo_bans_dji_drones


2017-8-4 09:17:42
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DJI Joe
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Note: Please keep this thread ON TOPIC. Any off topic responses will be immediately deleted and violations will be given. This is a sensitive topic so please be civil and respectful of all. Thanks.

Before this conversation gets out of hand, here's our official statement:

DJI makes civilian drones for peaceful purposes. They are built for personal and professional use, and are not designed for military uses or constructed to military specifications. We do not market our products for military customers, and if military members choose to buy and use our products as the best way to accomplish their tasks, we have no way of knowing who they are or what they do with them. The US Army has not explained why it suddenly banned the use of DJI drones and components, what “cyber vulnerabilities” it is concerned about, or whether it has also excluded drones made by other manufacturers.

Around the globe, businesses and governments rely on DJI to provide an aerial perspective on their work to save time, save money and sometimes even save lives. Even in highly sensitive applications involving critical infrastructure, customers use DJI products with confidence that they can accomplish their tasks. DJI has worked hard to earn our reputation as the drone industry’s leading innovator, and we will continue to provide solutions that our customers can depend on. If any of our customers have questions or concerns about DJI’s technology, we ask them to contact us directly so we can work to address them.

Until then, we ask everyone to refrain from undue speculation.
2017-8-4 11:05:16
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Lucas775
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Interesting read.  Thanks for sharing, I will share this article to others if you don't mind.
2017-8-4 09:26:47
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SFC57
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Lucas775 Posted at 2017-8-4 09:26
Interesting read.  Thanks for sharing, I will share this article to others if you don't mind.

please  DO is a free country well where I'm from anyway  
2017-8-4 09:30:10
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Woodwanger
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What I find amusing is that DJI think they should have been consulted by the US military regarding their decision........I think they are getting a little ahead of themselves and delusional if they really think they are that important!
2017-8-4 09:43:19
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Woodwanger
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I'm amazed that the US military or any other for that matter would use their or anyone else's drones knowing that they have the ability to control the use and quite easily be used to spy! North Korea would just love to have that ability and given they are good allies with China,...who knows what the US military motives are,
2017-8-4 09:50:25
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SFC57
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Woodwanger Posted at 2017-8-4 09:43
What I find amusing is that DJI think they should have been consulted by the US military regarding their decision........I think they are getting a little ahead of themselves and delusional if they really think they are that important!

here maybe the reason why the ARMY is saying NO GO to DJI

https://www.suasnews.com/2017/05 ... ji-data-collection/
2017-8-4 09:58:12
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Woodwanger
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SFC57 Posted at 2017-8-4 09:58
here maybe the reason why the ARMY is saying NO GO to DJI

https://www.suasnews.com/2017/05/global-information-gathering-network-uas-dji-data-collection/

Exactly that it is far to easy for them to  know what where and when their drones are being used as well as transmitting live video footage!
2017-8-4 10:14:43
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ALABAMA
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All had probably been updated and stopped working anyway.
2017-8-4 10:29:03
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Woodwanger
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ALABAMA Posted at 2017-8-4 10:29
All had probably been updated and stopped working anyway.

Yes that made me smile :-)
2017-8-4 10:31:37
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Genghis9
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Sorry, I'm almost laughing myself silly here...
What do you think?  ...well considering just a few years back the F-22 was found to have chips in it (from China) that were discovered to have malware, to say the least.  I'd say that the US Army is being more than prudent, to ensure the security of their forces, all classified operations & information, and other more than obvious national security implications.  
I will admit DJI (aka the Chicoms) have engineered a very good commercial product here, suitable for both hobbyists and professionals.  However, it would be naive, to say the least, if one did not consider China's propensity for industrial secret stealing and the wholesale collection of data and information by any means they can establish.  Today's computing power provides a nation state, like China, to cross-reference and tabulate it.  Eventually they can create a very good picture of people and places that can be used for any number of purposes.  
This is the primary reason I am extremely dubious about the recent change that "requires" you to log in to DJI before THEY will let you fly YOUR drone beyond 50 meters and above their determined altitude.  Sure, it all sounds so good, they are just concerned that we will not operate these birds inappropriately, and they are just trying to ensure our safety and flight safety in general.  OK, who would not be against that, but do not be surprised if eventually it is determined that the Chicoms are nefariously collecting data on all flights logged in, to include the images being filmed.  Volkswagen thought they would get away with their software-engineered cheat and that was just affecting the environment, eventually some smart guy figures it out...then what.  Yes, some are thinking then why are you here and buying these products...reasonable question…because, DJI is making the best, sure, they may have areas that need improvement, but they are king right now and I like getting the best when I can.  That said, I am cautious about my dealings with them, to the extent that I can, and I have no illusions that nothing I do with my equipment is guaranteed to be kept private or personal; it is a cost of doing business.  Also, I am not a major corporation or organization like the US Army that would find it nearly impossible to control this equipment on a large scale.
2017-8-4 10:34:23
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Genghis9
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SFC57 Posted at 2017-8-4 09:58
here maybe the reason why the ARMY is saying NO GO to DJI

https://www.suasnews.com/2017/05/global-information-gathering-network-uas-dji-data-collection/

I'm NOT surprised...
2017-8-4 10:35:33
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Woodwanger
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With DJI obsession to control could really be their undoing and this just shows they have really shot themselves in the foot with this or the US military has....lol
2017-8-4 10:48:06
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Aardvark
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I'd be more concerned about the data that is being collected whilst you are online. Or that your friendly internet speaker or TV is listening to every word you say, that the net connected camera is watching every move you make. Many companies ban the use of USB sticks because of the risk of spreading viruses and other PUPs.

Knowing where my drone has been flying after the event (I always fly in wifi free zones, and do not have a cell connection) would be the least of my worries.

Nobody seems to care about google maps getting close ups of your house and back yard, must have been a god send to all burglars.

And in the UK a goodly percentage of the superfast broadband is carried by Huawi equipment (another Chinese company)
Nor that your mobile phone company knows where you are almost 24 hours a day.

I don't think there's much to worry about with the US army Lieutenant Generals knee jerk reaction, it seems unlikely that these things weren't fully researched before they started using them.

In short, anything with a communications interface is a potential spy. How do we know MI6 aren't recording all our phone calls and logging all our internet activity ?

2017-8-4 10:50:46
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djiuser_55RMcis
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2017-8-4 11:03:06
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Genghis9
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Aardvark Posted at 2017-8-4 10:50
I'd be more concerned about the data that is being collected whilst you are online. Or that your friendly internet speaker or TV is listening to every word you say, that the net connected camera is watching every move you make. Many companies ban the use of USB sticks because of the risk of spreading viruses and other PUPs.

Knowing where my drone has been flying after the event (I always fly in wifi free zones, and do not have a cell connection) would be the least of my worries.

  
Aardvark,
  
All great points…
  
Most have no real idea about these issues, and worse do not seem to care about it.  Here in the states there have been real concerns about the NSA collecting phone metadata on all our calls, are there folks concerned about it, yes.  However, not nearly as many and certainly not enough are in an uproar about it.  I believe it is because they are ill informed, misinformed, or completely apathetic about the subject.  Most of these intrusions on our privacy have happened very quickly and it all came with capabilities that made life better or simpler and most never considered the second & third order of effects that came along with those changes and improvements.
  
A person today should be informed, wise to these issues, and live accordingly if they value their privacy.  I just hope we don’t wake up one day to find ourselves in some Orwellian type nightmare.   
  
Here’s to freedom and privacy, fly safe!
2017-8-4 11:06:03
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Woodwanger
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Aardvark Posted at 2017-8-4 10:50
I'd be more concerned about the data that is being collected whilst you are online. Or that your friendly internet speaker or TV is listening to every word you say, that the net connected camera is watching every move you make. Many companies ban the use of USB sticks because of the risk of spreading viruses and other PUPs.

Knowing where my drone has been flying after the event (I always fly in wifi free zones, and do not have a cell connection) would be the least of my worries.

It's more about national security than our own personal use and yes it is very concerning when their are so many nutter dictators out there!
As well as terrorists and yes I'm sure we are all being watched somewhere down the line by mi6  which ain't a bad thing since our country is now overrun by fanatical brainwashed idiots and don't ever under estimate the power the Chinese government has over its people....they have to do whatever they want or else!
Not to mention China's too close for comfort relationship with North Korea and that ain't gonna end well
2017-8-4 11:07:14
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Aerography U.K.
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Genghis9 Posted at 2017-8-4 10:34
Sorry, I'm almost laughing myself silly here...
What do you think?  ...well considering just a few years back the F-22 was found to have chips in it (from China) that were discovered to have malware, to say the least.  I'd say that the US Army is being more than prudent, to ensure the security of their forces, all classified operations & information, and other more than obvious national security implications.  
I will admit DJI (aka the Chicoms) have engineered a very good commercial product here, suitable for both hobbyists and professionals.  However, it would be naive, to say the least, if one did not consider China's propensity for industrial secret stealing and the wholesale collection of data and information by any means they can establish.  Today's computing power provides a nation state, like China, to cross-reference and tabulate it.  Eventually they can create a very good picture of people and places that can be used for any number of purposes.  

I agree with all you've written, of course our interaction here is logged, monitored etc.. lol help......
2017-8-4 11:42:08
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mightyarrow
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How has the OP not been banned and this thread deleted by the Gestapo....i mean, DJI Support? I kind of encourage them to, because it's starting to become blindingly obvious in the forums that the heavy hand of censorship is here, and it's great that new customers and users getting early exposure to their unacceptable business practices and tactics of trying to silence criticism.

Good for compettion to sieze on. And don't think for a sec that DJI will continue to rule the consumer drone segment. Only a matter of time til someone with deep pockets comes along and blows them outta the water by simply offering spy-less flight, choice to upgrade/downgrade as you wish, and lack of restrictions based on asking Daddy DJI if I can get permission to fly.
2017-8-4 11:49:24
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mightyarrow
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DJI Joe Posted at 2017-8-4 11:05
Before this conversation gets out of hand, here's our official statement:

People, businesses and governments around the world rely on DJI's products and technology for a variety of uses including sensitive and mission critical operations. The Department of the Army memo even reports that they have "issued over 300 separate Airworthiness Releases for DJI products in support of multiple organizations with a variety of mission sets.”

This really is with all due respect, when I say:

Every time DJI issues a press release, it opens its mouth so another foot  can be put in it. I don't know the extent of your employment with them, but I just don't see how you can post on behalf of a company like this and still keep a straight face and moderate this forum.

Kudos to you, but surely not DJI.
2017-8-4 11:59:24
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Woodwanger
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mightyarrow Posted at 2017-8-4 11:49
How has the OP not been banned and this thread deleted by the Gestapo....i mean, DJI Support? I kind of encourage them to, because it's starting to become blindingly obvious in the forums that the heavy hand of censorship is here, and it's great that new customers and users getting early exposure to their unacceptable business practices and tactics of trying to silence criticism.

Good for compettion to sieze on. And don't think for a sec that DJI will continue to rule the consumer drone segment. Only a matter of time til someone with deep pockets comes along and blows them outta the water by simply offering spy-less flight, choice to upgrade/downgrade as you wish, and lack of restrictions based on asking Daddy DJI if I can get permission to fly.

Well NASA have very very very deep pockets and I for one am surprised that they did not supply the U.S military with drones as their technology would blow DJI out of orbit!
2017-8-4 12:00:17
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Adam Flurk
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Precisely... It's really a no-brainer... It's a matter of data being collected that may be sensitive to the US govt. No surprise here really for me... Makes sense anyway. They are just protecting themselves from any possible data hack (they happen so often now). At least that's what I think when I think 'cyber vulnerability'...
2017-8-4 12:08:18
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djiuser_55RMcis
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2017-8-4 12:30:36
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JW5255
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I upload my flight data to the DJI cloud primarily as a logging tool.  Yes, I am fully aware of DJI information policies, however, I suspect that the information they can extract from my activity can hurt no one but myself.  To even think that using the internet, or anything that can connect to the internet is secure is ignorance.  I have worked in IT long before the popular use of the internet and be assured, if someone has a reason to target you, be it for your fame, money or usage, they will and do!  As far as the military is concerned, I would suspect that their security people would have this well in hand, however, the popular media,  knowing very little about how IT works, will pick up on this story and run with it causing hysteria in an equally ignorant population.  For those that do not know:  The internet is not secure, and you make yourself a target if you have something that another person, corporation or whoever else wants, either for power or money.  Am I a target ?  Yes, for my usage ! Trust me, not for my fame, fortune or power...
2017-8-4 13:18:59
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Maxi3D
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mightyarrow Posted at 2017-8-4 11:49
Only a matter of time til someone with deep pockets comes along and blows them outta the water by simply offering spy-less flight, choice to upgrade/downgrade as you wish, and lack of restrictions based on asking Daddy DJI if I can get permission to fly.

So when is this Messiah going to raise up and save us from the big bad DJI corp.?  
2017-8-4 13:42:10
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Fractures
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Im glad to see DJI lose some serious business. Its hilarious how fast they can respond to US army dropping their product but here we are a month later and not a word about P4 firmware.
2017-8-4 14:06:13
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Labroides
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Maxi3D Posted at 2017-8-4 13:42
So when is this Messiah going to raise up and save us from the big bad DJI corp.?

Or more to the point, when will we be free of the incredible ignorance we see posted here.
2017-8-4 14:09:24
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Nigel_
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So what are they going to fly instead?

Maybe they think that the GoPro Karma is "Made in USA" and doesn't keep flying away for unknown reasons?
2017-8-4 14:24:58
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Geebax
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It is abolutely fascinating to read rthe complete rubbish posted here. All these reports about data being sent back to China all come from people who have no idea how technology works. My aircraft has been flown since day one with no internet or WiFi connection whatsoever, and so can yours. Therefore there is no pathway at all to send information anywhere.

Don't sync you flights to DJI and no information will be sent to them, disable cell and WiFi connections and all you will lose is the mapping capability, so if you are flying according to the laws of every country, you won't need the maps because you can see where the aircraft is with the naked eye.

As for sending images back to DJI, has anyone thought of the massive infrastructure that would be needed to view and sort the billions of images shot every day to find any of use? Not to mention the sheer impossibility of getting that imagery back to them without it being detected.


2017-8-4 17:25:06
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Cetacean
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Aardvark Posted at 2017-8-4 10:50
I'd be more concerned about the data that is being collected whilst you are online. Or that your friendly internet speaker or TV is listening to every word you say, that the net connected camera is watching every move you make. Many companies ban the use of USB sticks because of the risk of spreading viruses and other PUPs.

Knowing where my drone has been flying after the event (I always fly in wifi free zones, and do not have a cell connection) would be the least of my worries.

Aloha Aardvark,

     As usual, a well thought-out comment amid the hysteria.  It is refreshing to see you, Genghis, Adam, JW, and Labroides adding clear voices of reason to the discussion.  The scope of data mining in the last US election has opened a lot of eyes.  

     DJI will work with the US Government and resolve this issue as they have done previously.  SFC's second article is much more informative than the first and that informative article was posted last May.  This has been going on for a while.  The first article was only an announcement with some speculation.  Yeah, like we need more speculation.

Aloha and Drone On!
2017-8-4 17:35:04
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Dobmatt
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Thank you, Brother Labroides, Cetacean, Geebax and other senior officers for finally showing up on this party ... I was just about to leave by back door ... Thank you ...
2017-8-4 18:32:45
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Kuya Kano
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God forbid, the military industrial complex has any competition.  Its not like the army's "Identify friend or foe" does any good to stop them from killing innocent people.  I can only assume politics has something to do with this little piece of propaganda.  There aren't too many companies left for the military to turn to that hasn't sold out to China for production.  
2017-8-4 18:38:27
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Lucas775
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I wonder if this will affect any future products, specially loosing one of your biggest accounts.  Hopefully DJI will take care of "us" better.
2017-8-4 20:19:56
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Geebax
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Lucas775 Posted at 2017-8-4 20:19
I wonder if this will affect any future products, specially loosing one of your biggest accounts.  Hopefully DJI will take care of "us" better.

I seriously doubt the the US Army is one of DJI's 'biggest accounts'. The consumer sales would dwarf the military sales.
2017-8-4 21:06:27
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Antonio76
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JW5255 Posted at 2017-8-4 13:18
I upload my flight data to the DJI cloud primarily as a logging tool.  Yes, I am fully aware of DJI information policies, however, I suspect that the information they can extract from my activity can hurt no one but myself.  To even think that using the internet, or anything that can connect to the internet is secure is ignorance.  I have worked in IT long before the popular use of the internet and be assured, if someone has a reason to target you, be it for your fame, money or usage, they will and do!  As far as the military is concerned, I would suspect that their security people would have this well in hand, however, the popular media,  knowing very little about how IT works, will pick up on this story and run with it causing hysteria in an equally ignorant population.  For those that do not know:  The internet is not secure, and you make yourself a target if you have something that another person, corporation or whoever else wants, either for power or money.  Am I a target ?  Yes, for my usage ! Trust me, not for my fame, fortune or power...

Totally agree. That army general -if he really wanted to stop somebody from prying state secrets from drone flying soldiers, could easily have done so by ordering an armed forces - wide "Operation Moon " to be performed at the start of each flight...
2017-8-5 01:56:40
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hallmark007
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“In reading The History of Nations, we find that, like individuals, they have their whims and their peculiarities, their seasons of excitement and recklessness, when they care not what they do. We find that whole communities suddenly fix their minds upon one object and go mad in its pursuit; that millions of people become simultaneously impressed with one delusion, and run after it, till their attention is caught by some new folly more captivating than the first.
2017-8-5 03:25:07
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Duchunter
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If the US Army has purchased consumer grade drones there probably just as pi$$ed of as we are. If they did as told and updated firmware then they are grounded just like a large percentage of the rest of us. It appears that DJI's entire line of consumer drones is having firmware issues in one way or another. It probably dawned on them just how easy it is for DJI to ground their entire fleet. When you purchase a product you expect it to work when you so choose to use it. I have a new p4 that I literally can not control. Just attempting to fly it is a dangerous proposition. What good is a product I cant use? Im about ready to box it up and send it back. Ive had enough. Why DJI has decided to sabotage itself ill never know. This almost seems like a ransomware situation. Why is dji not doing anything to resolve this? Perhaps they can not. Have you been hacked DJI? If so you need to pay them.
2017-8-5 04:35:13
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GrangerFX
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We, your customers, were not consulted before you removed the ability to downgrade the firmware version. Nor were we consulted before you updated to a version that never went through normal beta testing and was so laden with bugs that it has grounded many (most?) Phantom 4s. This is what I meant when I said that DJI has lost control of its own platform. Unless DJI can point at a government regulation forcing them to make these changes, they should immediately reverse their recent policy changes and get an official apology from the company CEO. DJI's current attitude is appalling.

DJI please consider making your firmware and app opensource. This would allow any security issues it may pose to be identified and fixed and also allow us to use our drones as we wish.
2017-8-5 12:13:57
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djiuser_55RMcis
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2017-8-5 12:32:07
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hallmark007
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djiuser_55RMcis Posted at 2017-8-5 12:32
DJI's attitude has always been appalling. They are appalled that the military "didn't consult with them when this decision is made". That's the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

Worse than DJI's attitude is that DJIs ACTIONS are appalling. They release such buggy firmware and have no intention of fixing it anytime soon. They will just say "calibrate IMU", etc. that's their go-to BS for years now.

Maybe you should have the same convictions as the US Army, that would show them.
2017-8-5 12:39:36
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