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4K video not smooth
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651 61 2017-8-9 17:42:45
Floreto
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I've been recording my projects in 1080p for a long time because I find it easier to work with while editing and I usually don't need 4K resolution.  I decided to switch to 4K 30 FPS for a project I did this week and now that I'm watching the playback I can see it not nearly as smooth as 1080p footage.  This doesn't make much since to me, there should be no difference in the smoothness of the playback.  I don't think it's the codec I'm using to compress the footage, H.264 is pretty standard and the presets make it virtually fool proof.  Before this last job I updated the drone and controller to the latest firmware, when I was out in the field I very briefly saw a message pop up on the screen that said something like encoder error.  This was the first time I've seen this but I have a feeling it may have caused this problem.  Has anyone seen this behavior before?
  



2017-8-9 17:42:45
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Punchbuggy
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Yes. It's your PC's ability to handle the 4K - greater CPU and GPU is required to get seamless play at that resolution and frame rate. Also, the media player can be a limitation. I have a i7-based Windows 10 PC and have reasonable success with the standard Film&TV player, although others have reported success using the free VLC player (although it stutters for me).
2017-8-9 17:53:05
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Irate Retro
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As Punchbuggy says, it _could_ just be you viewing it on your computer.  But when you shoot in 4K you're placing much higher demands on the P4P's encoder, so it's perfectly reasonable to expect some additional encoding problems at times.  

On my P4 std (yes I know it's different hardware), the thing will take a complete dump if you get near things with lots of details like grass.  Many encoding artifacts, green frames, etc.  High up in the sky it's still a crap shoot and often times a small encoding error will ruin the whole clip and I have to do it over -- and over -- and over.   I have just given up on shooting 4K on the P4 std unless I know I can slice up the footage into very short clips when it barfs.  The encoder just cannot keep up on mine.
2017-8-9 18:14:14
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Irate Retro Posted at 2017-8-9 18:14
As Punchbuggy says, it _could_ just be you viewing it on your computer.  But when you shoot in 4K you're placing much higher demands on the P4P's encoder, so it's perfectly reasonable to expect some additional encoding problems at times.  

On my P4 std (yes I know it's different hardware), the thing will take a complete dump if you get near things with lots of details like grass.  Many encoding artifacts, green frames, etc.  High up in the sky it's still a crap shoot and often times a small encoding error will ruin the whole clip and I have to do it over -- and over -- and over.   I have just given up on shooting 4K on the P4 std unless I know I can slice up the footage into very short clips when it barfs.  The encoder just cannot keep up on mine.

I have both a P4P and P4 which I use for videos. I've stopped recording in 4096x2160 Ultra 4K for the reason that most players don't handle it well, and now only record at 3840x2160 4K 30fps at best. I haven't noted any encoding artefacts from my P4 video at that setting, so I'll have to go back and compare the output more carefully from each.
2017-8-9 18:34:49
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Irate Retro
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Punchbuggy Posted at 2017-8-9 18:34
I'll have to go back and compare the output more carefully from each.

Like I said, my problems were mostly encountered when there was lots of details to pick up.  For example when just inches away from the top of the grass in a meadow.  Right-stick movements usually didn't cause constant problems, but a slight yaw would cause everything to go to crap very frequently.
2017-8-9 18:36:11
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DJI Susan
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I would recommend you to change the video player or another PC with greater performance to verify.
2017-8-9 19:59:09
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Floreto
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It's not the computer, I have a high end machines and playback of an already edited and compressed file is always smooth.  As Punchbuggy has indicated there is something wrong with the camera in these drones, they are not capable of capturing 4K video reliably.  This event has led to a loss of a new client for me, the choppiness of the video was the main reason they decided to cancel the contract I had with them.  I've had some issues with this drone in the past not wanting to take off in areas that were unrestricted but I've never lost a job because of it before.  This situation shouldn't have happened, I should be able to have confidence in the equipment I'm using, otherwise why by top of the line hardware!  I really hate flying this drone now, with all the problems that I've read about and experienced in the last few months I dread each time I have to fly a job because I never know if it's going to perform as it should.        
2017-8-10 05:49:07
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bluemarley67
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if your computer does not support 4k this would be your #1 reason why it is not cdoming back smoothly mine dont look smooth due to my screen being 7 years old and early 1080p this could also be your issue
2017-8-10 06:49:28
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Floreto
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Again my machine is not the problem, I have a dual processor system with 64 gigs of ram and a Quadro P6000 video card, playing back 1080P video has never been a problem even 4K plays back smoothly.  
2017-8-10 07:07:39
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Landbo
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Floreto Posted at 2017-8-10 05:49
It's not the computer, I have a high end machines and playback of an already edited and compressed file is always smooth.  As Punchbuggy has indicated there is something wrong with the camera in these drones, they are not capable of capturing 4K video reliably.  This event has led to a loss of a new client for me, the choppiness of the video was the main reason they decided to cancel the contract I had with them.  I've had some issues with this drone in the past not wanting to take off in areas that were unrestricted but I've never lost a job because of it before.  This situation shouldn't have happened, I should be able to have confidence in the equipment I'm using, otherwise why by top of the line hardware!  I really hate flying this drone now, with all the problems that I've read about and experienced in the last few months I dread each time I have to fly a job because I never know if it's going to perform as it should.

It's a little hard to discussing something about a video error nobody can see. Make a small piece of raw video public for download from ex. Dropbox and then we can discuss errors etc..   

Regards Leif.
2017-8-10 07:13:44
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Floreto
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Here's a short clip, exported from Premiere using the Vimeo 1080p preset, if you look at the cars the stuttering effect is most noticeable but you can see it in the buildings as well.  All of the video I shot that day looks the same, I've shot lots of video with this drone at 1080p and I've never seen this behavior before.  


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2017-8-10 07:31:55
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Landbo
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Floreto Posted at 2017-8-10 07:31
Here's a short clip, exported from Premiere using the Vimeo 1080p preset, if you look at the cars the stuttering effect is most noticeable but you can see it in the buildings as well.  All of the video I shot that day looks the same, I've shot lots of video with this drone at 1080p and I've never seen this behavior before.  


No that clip does not look good. But if it's Phantom or Premiere or Vimeo that's wrong, I can not say. Therefore, I need a virgin 4K clip directly from the camera to download !!!

Regards Leif.
2017-8-10 07:51:59
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Floreto
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I've exported lots of video from Premiere using identical settings and it never looks like this, trust me when I say the 4K looks exactly the same.
2017-8-10 09:32:06
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Floreto Posted at 2017-8-10 09:32
I've exported lots of video from Premiere using identical settings and it never looks like this, trust me when I say the 4K looks exactly the same.

It looks fine on computer??? Which client wants you to fly over 8 lanes highway?
2017-8-10 09:40:06
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Floreto
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I am the E Posted at 2017-8-10 09:40
It looks fine on computer??? Which client wants you to fly over 8 lanes highway?

Did you watch it full screen in HD, it's pretty obvious that the playback isn't smooth.
2017-8-10 10:23:20
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Antonio76
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Floreto Posted at 2017-8-10 10:23
Did you watch it full screen in HD, it's pretty obvious that the playback isn't smooth.

May I ask what were the camera settings?
2017-8-10 10:29:37
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Floreto
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ISO was set to 100, Shutter speed was 60, D-Cinelike, 4K@30 FPS.
2017-8-10 11:01:28
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Antonio76
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Floreto Posted at 2017-8-10 11:01
ISO was set to 100, Shutter speed was 60, D-Cinelike, 4K@30 FPS.

Thanks. Not knowing you, I just wanted to make sure the shutter speed vs frame rate was correct... It was indeed
2017-8-10 11:45:06
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Floreto Posted at 2017-8-10 07:07
Again my machine is not the problem, I have a dual processor system with 64 gigs of ram and a Quadro P6000 video card, playing back 1080P video has never been a problem even 4K plays back smoothly.

My machine has less graphic power (Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070) but videos I shoot in 4k/60fps/h264 are absolutely smooth. Maybe you have a bad bird?
2017-8-10 12:19:18
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Floreto Posted at 2017-8-10 05:49
It's not the computer, I have a high end machines and playback of an already edited and compressed file is always smooth.  As Punchbuggy has indicated there is something wrong with the camera in these drones, they are not capable of capturing 4K video reliably.  This event has led to a loss of a new client for me, the choppiness of the video was the main reason they decided to cancel the contract I had with them.  I've had some issues with this drone in the past not wanting to take off in areas that were unrestricted but I've never lost a job because of it before.  This situation shouldn't have happened, I should be able to have confidence in the equipment I'm using, otherwise why by top of the line hardware!  I really hate flying this drone now, with all the problems that I've read about and experienced in the last few months I dread each time I have to fly a job because I never know if it's going to perform as it should.

I feel your pain. My editing system is well above specs to edit 4K and I am able to play/edit 4K footage from multiple other devices, but files from my P4P give my system the jitters. In fact, even high frame rate 1080 video from the P4P gives my system trouble in certain programs. Again, I can edit and play 1080 and 4k footage from several other cameras on the same system without so much as a hick-up. There are simply not enough of us (like you and me) having this issue, so when others chime in, their advice is based on their own (good) experiences, and the assumption will be that your system is lacking. I believe a certain percentage of these DJI cameras have a flaw in them that causes the problems you and I are having, and I doubt much time by DJI will be put on resolving the issue (as they likely also assume the issues are caused by the end-users' setups). We many be on our own. For now, I never shoot in 4K with the Phantom. I reserve 4k shot for my other equipment and that works well for me. So much for high-res aerial footage though, huh?
2017-8-10 12:46:35
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theGrindLab.com
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Eric13 Posted at 2017-8-10 12:19
My machine has less graphic power (Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070) but videos I shoot in 4k/60fps/h264 are absolutely smooth. Maybe you have a bad bird?

That's my theory too.
2017-8-10 12:46:57
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Floreto
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Eric13 Posted at 2017-8-10 12:19
My machine has less graphic power (Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070) but videos I shoot in 4k/60fps/h264 are absolutely smooth. Maybe you have a bad bird?

That is possible but I really don't want to send it in unless it's absolutely necessary.
2017-8-10 12:57:08
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Floreto Posted at 2017-8-10 09:32
I've exported lots of video from Premiere using identical settings and it never looks like this, trust me when I say the 4K looks exactly the same.

Will let the DJI employees suggest refresh of the firmware, camera reset etc etc.

It's because you use the same settings as in 1080p recordings, it goes wrong.

You have a very prominent intra-frame flicker in your clip as you clearly look at the cars' motion, which can be reduced by decreasing the sharpness of the camera. It will also help on both the aliasing and Moire 'pattern at the same time over the sharp edges of the buildings and on surfaces.

It's very hard to convert 4K to 1080p when there's so much motion in the image that you have in your clip without again and reduce sharpness at the same time. There, in my opinion, you will be better served to use 1080p when it will be seen in 1080p !!!

Regards Leif.
2017-8-10 14:19:18
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Floreto
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Landbo you seem to know how to fix this, what settings do you suggest using in camera to keep this from happening?   I was also adjusting sharpness: -1, contrast: -3, and saturation: -2, I was also using an ND16 filter.
2017-8-10 14:35:01
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Floreto Posted at 2017-8-10 14:35
Landbo you seem to know how to fix this, what settings do you suggest using in camera to keep this from happening?   I was also adjusting sharpness: -1, contrast: -3, and saturation: -2, I was also using an ND16 filter.

I was going to suggest a camera reset, perhaps even a firmware refresh (I'm not a DJI employee, don't even have their T-Shirt). Would only take a short while and would be one more thing crossed off the list of possibilities.

I wonder if that is not just the effect of the rolling shutter that can be seen ?
2017-8-10 15:00:54
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Floreto Posted at 2017-8-10 05:49
It's not the computer, I have a high end machines and playback of an already edited and compressed file is always smooth.  As Punchbuggy has indicated there is something wrong with the camera in these drones, they are not capable of capturing 4K video reliably.  This event has led to a loss of a new client for me, the choppiness of the video was the main reason they decided to cancel the contract I had with them.  I've had some issues with this drone in the past not wanting to take off in areas that were unrestricted but I've never lost a job because of it before.  This situation shouldn't have happened, I should be able to have confidence in the equipment I'm using, otherwise why by top of the line hardware!  I really hate flying this drone now, with all the problems that I've read about and experienced in the last few months I dread each time I have to fly a job because I never know if it's going to perform as it should.

'As Punchbuggy has indicated there is something wrong with the camera in these drones, they are not capable of capturing 4K video reliably. '

I don't believe Punchbuggy said that at all, and it ignores the fact that there are thousands of aircraft out there performing reliably. Unfortunately, the Vimeo clip is not much use in evaluating a potential problem, as you have already processed it though Premiere and Vimeo. To diagnose the video problem, you have to make available a short clip of original, unprocessed material, and put in on Dropbox or similar so we can download it and view it.

Are you shooting in 4K at 100 mbps? And you would do well to transcode the material to ProRes when ingesting it into Premier, as it is likely to handle it better than the original MP4 material.

2017-8-10 15:01:21
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Punchbuggy
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Geebax Posted at 2017-8-10 15:01
'As Punchbuggy has indicated there is something wrong with the camera in these drones, they are not capable of capturing 4K video reliably. '

I don't believe Punchbuggy said that at all, and it ignores the fact that there are thousands of aircraft out there performing reliably. Unfortunately, the Vimeo clip is not much use in evaluating a potential problem, as you have already processed it though Premiere and Vimeo. To diagnose the video problem, you have to make available a short clip of original, unprocessed material, and put in on Dropbox or similar so we can download it and view it.

Thanks G - I'm glad I read to the end before responding. Correct, I didn't say that. However, I will admit to noting that some segments of captured 4K@30fps video I cut to incorporate into a final sequence does stutter, though it's not consistent. It normally occurs in pans. But I still believe it's not the camera, but an issue of CPU/GPU and software codec support...
2017-8-10 16:32:52
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Floreto Posted at 2017-8-10 10:23
Did you watch it full screen in HD, it's pretty obvious that the playback isn't smooth.


       
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2017-8-10 19:58:37
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Landbo
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Floreto Posted at 2017-8-10 14:35
Landbo you seem to know how to fix this, what settings do you suggest using in camera to keep this from happening?   I was also adjusting sharpness: -1, contrast: -3, and saturation: -2, I was also using an ND16 filter.

I'm definitely not an expert and, at the same time, I do not know what you're doing in Premiere or Vimeo with your clip. Therefore, it is impossible and try to advise on the camera's setting without having seen the same clip untouched from the camera.

Regards Leif.
2017-8-10 21:40:28
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Floreto
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Aardvark Posted at 2017-8-10 15:00
I was going to suggest a camera reset, perhaps even a firmware refresh (I'm not a DJI employee, don't even have their T-Shirt). Would only take a short while and would be one more thing crossed off the list of possibilities.

I wonder if that is not just the effect of the rolling shutter that can be seen ?

I did this exact thing the night before I flew that job because I was unable to see any maps and those I could see had Chinese writing all over them.  
2017-8-11 06:00:26
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Ted11
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Are you settings MP4 or MOV.
2017-8-11 06:40:03
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Ted11
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Are your video settings MP4 or MOV.   I use 4K  3840x2160 @ 60fps. when I used MP4 it was very juddery especially panning/ yawing
2017-8-11 06:42:00
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I will try again, Using 4K 60fps  MP4 gave very juddery footage especially when panning/ yawing, when I changed to MOV it was as smooth as silk. I am using an MSI laptop with a 1080p screen 16gb ram , antiflicker set at 60 even though I am in UK.
2017-8-11 06:49:42
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Floreto
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Landbo Posted at 2017-8-10 21:40
I'm definitely not an expert and, at the same time, I do not know what you're doing in Premiere or Vimeo with your clip. Therefore, it is impossible and try to advise on the camera's setting without having seen the same clip untouched from the camera.

Regards Leif.

Here's a link to a small portion of the clip, it's pretty large about 1.3GB but it's an uncompressed section of the video.  Not sure what good this will be though because in this format it's probably not possible to play it back smoothly without compressing it.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zii3opp61o9ybyc/Comp%201.7z?dl=0
2017-8-11 08:50:00
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Hi Floreto,
Here are a bunch of options... I know you tried some of these already, but I'm listing them for you to double-check...
-- try shooting at the next setting under full 4K (3840x2160 4K 30fps).  I can't really shoot at full 4k with my drone, too many artifacts, especially with any vertical motion.  
-- The problem looks very similar to inter frame transcoding errors.  Motion (like the cars) are where you would see it most.  Make sure your workflow (drone capture settings, to Premier settings, to Vimeo settings) are all working together.  For example, make sure your timeline is set to 30P instead of 60i.  
-- Your clip is nearly overly sharp, which could contribute to the problem, so make sure you are not over sharpening in camera or through your workflow.
-- Vimeo has a fairly terrible transcode when you upload a video, be very sure you are exporting a vimeo friendly file type from Premier.
-- The stuttering looks a lot like 24fps... I know you said you are shooting at 30fps, but maybe give that a double-check.
-- Your video card in the drone, is it fast enough to capture everything?  Have you tried a different card?  Have you ever reformatted your card?
-- Is your computer software all up to date?
-- Is your computer plugged in?  :-)
-- Have you reset your camera lately?
-- You mention that h.264 is part of your workflow.  Where is h.264 in your workflow?  

Just some thoughts to consider.
Matt








2017-8-11 09:11:35
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Kuya Kano
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I just shot a video at 4k using 60fps and it was smooth as butter.  Granted its doubling your space on the hard drive, but the people I shot the video was amazed by the quality.  I shot a separate video at 1080p at 30fps and the video was "o.k.", but the quality was nothing to get excited about since every new iPhone and smart device out there has 1080p video quality.  
2017-8-11 09:24:43
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Floreto
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Mabou2 Posted at 2017-8-11 09:11
Hi Floreto,
Here are a bunch of options... I know you tried some of these already, but I'm listing them for you to double-check...
-- try shooting at the next setting under full 4K (3840x2160 4K 30fps).  I can't really shoot at full 4k with my drone, too many artifacts, especially with any vertical motion.  

Thanks for these options, I'm not sure about the sharpness aspect of the video you say it's almost too sharp but my camera settings are set to actually reduce sharpness.  I'm using the .mp4 preset for Vimeo when I export, can't think of a more appropriate setting to use.  My video card is listed below, I believe it's fast enough for 4K, everything was shot and exported at 30 FPS.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/produc ... 0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm not going to shoot in 4K anymore which really means I've wasted a lot of money on a system that doesn't work.  Some have said that only a small number of people are experiencing this problem, I think it's more likely this problem is wide spread but people don't realize it because they aren't using 4K or they aren't scrutinizing their footage.  They probably think like many here have that it's a user error when exporting or that it's a limitation of their computer hardware.      
2017-8-11 09:25:41
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Floreto Posted at 2017-8-11 08:50
Here's a link to a small portion of the clip, it's pretty large about 1.3GB but it's an uncompressed section of the video.  Not sure what good this will be though because in this format it's probably not possible to play it back smoothly without compressing it.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zii3opp61o9ybyc/Comp%201.7z?dl=0

I'm curious as to how a 100 Mb/s MP4/MOV file could be converted into a 2 Gb/s AVI file no wonder the hardware struggles.

Can you not provide a clip from the source file ?
2017-8-11 09:37:51
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kykphantom
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Try 4k@60fps, this is very smooth.
2017-8-11 09:45:24
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Mabou2
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Floreto Posted at 2017-8-11 09:25
Thanks for these options, I'm not sure about the sharpness aspect of the video you say it's almost too sharp but my camera settings are set to actually reduce sharpness.  I'm using the .mp4 preset for Vimeo when I export, can't think of a more appropriate setting to use.  My video card is listed below, I believe it's fast enough for 4K, everything was shot and exported at 30 FPS.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DYN56OY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Hi Floreto,
Have you tried a different card?  I notice on Amazon that your card is now outdated and is being replaced by a new model.

Don't give up on 4k... just step it down to the lower 4k.  This is far superior to 1080P in terms of overall quality, and gives you more options in post production.

I use only h.264 when exporting for vimeo.  check your settings, .mp4 and .mov are only containers for the codec.  .mp4 is more cross-platform friendly than .mov, but again, these are only containers for the encoded file, not the codec itself... so make sure you understand the difference and are checking your settings carefully.
2017-8-11 09:48:13
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