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POLL: Would you purchase a harness to fix TB-47/8 batteries??
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450 40 2017-8-16 16:54:05
RichJ53
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Hi guys, I am in the process of making a Youtube video showing the needed equipment to bypass the Intelligent battery circuit and let you FIX the TB 47 or TB 46 Inspire 1 batteries.  

As you can guess it takes a fair amount of money to make these parts and offer them for sale. I am interested on how many folks are wanting some way to work on these unique batteries and would like to save them if possible.

Of course safety is paramount and some batteries should be retired and not used. But in many cases we have batteries that do not have very many charge cycles on them which develop a problem. This leaves us without a solution other than replacement. If the battery is under warranty, then DJI will replace it up to 6 months after purchase.

You need to have a Multi chemistry battery charger that is capable of charging Li-Po type batteries with a 6 cell universal balancing adapter
cheap example... but you don't need a super expensive one


Please vote and let me know if it is worthwhile to make these parts available to other users.
Possible battery issues:
Cell broken error?
DJI charger will not charge the battery because of self discharge?
Want a way to balance cycle your battery independently of the DJI charging system?

Some photos of a recent battery repair using my harness and connection idea to circumvent the intelligent brains. The battery is fully functioning now and saved the battery.
Thanks
Rich
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2017-8-16 16:54:05
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TruGreen
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I have a few... more like 4, that fail to charge. What would you charge for me to just ship them to you and have you fix them, then send them back to me? I'm located in southern Cali and have paypal for payment. If this is something you'd be interested in please reply here or send me a PM and we can work out the details further
2017-8-16 20:47:09
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RichJ53
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TruGreen Posted at 2017-8-16 20:47
I have a few... more like 4, that fail to charge. What would you charge for me to just ship them to you and have you fix them, then send them back to me? I'm located in southern Cali and have paypal for payment. If this is something you'd be interested in please reply here or send me a PM and we can work out the details further

I have some questions,

how old are these batteries?
Approximately how many charge cycles?
How long have been dead or low charge?

Rich
2017-8-16 21:26:51
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fansa84fe8a4
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Rich, great idea!

I wish DJI would adopt this method of using a Smart Charger and go back to using a normal Li-Po battery.   Would extend the life of these things a lot more like my normal RC planes and tools batteries.  Too much electronics on the battery itself leads to all sorts of issues of it failing too soon, imho.  Some of my decade old tool batteries have sat for a year unused and charge right back up again when I pull them out for a job.  I doubt if the DJI batteries would do the same and become throw-aways.
2017-8-17 06:54:55
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Mark Guille
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Hi Rich,

What exactly am I buying here and how much is it going to cost me?

Mark G.
2017-8-17 08:35:32
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RichJ53
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Mark Guille Posted at 2017-8-17 08:35
Hi Rich,

What exactly am I buying here and how much is it going to cost me?

Hi Mark

The wiring harness to connect to the top of the battery balance socket and the positive / negative  power leads. The cost has not been determined yet because it depends on how many units will be made.

You will need a LiPo charger to connect these parts to the battery
Rich
2017-8-17 10:54:40
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DTK
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By wiring harness, you mean the wire ribbon connecting the battery to your icharger. The connector to the battery top is a proprietary one, I cannot find it in any electronic retailer.
2017-8-17 12:15:59
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RichJ53
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DTK Posted at 2017-8-17 12:15
By wiring harness, you mean the wire ribbon connecting the battery to your icharger. The connector to the battery top is a proprietary one, I cannot find it in any electronic retailer.

Yes, the harness that includes the socket with wires and balance connectors.  I took over 2 months to source out these parts. They are not available in small quantities. If there is not much interest then, I most likely will let this idea drop.

I am doing this as a favor to other Inspire 1 owners and not to get rich. So far it doesn't seem to be very popular. The main reason is the battery takes a small amount to skill and patients to get it opened up without breaking the plastic. Some of the guys that have skinned their Inspire have hydro painted these parts, which takes it apart even more than what is needed to manually charge the battery.

All the best
Rich
2017-8-17 14:13:54
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TruGreen
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RichJ53 Posted at 2017-8-16 21:26
I have some questions,

how old are these batteries?

all of which i can not answer. i received them dead with a parts lot i had purchased
2017-8-17 14:52:16
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DTK
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Rich, it is really a good idea. T47 and 48 are expensive battery, it is more than 50% of equivalent OEM lipo battery. I also find that the capacity is deterioring rather fast with every recharge. Not to mention hiccups on unbalancing cells issue. Throwing away unnecessary these batteries also is not a good idea. I will have 2 for my icharger.
2017-8-17 14:54:27
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RichJ53
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TruGreen Posted at 2017-8-17 14:52
all of which i can not answer. i received them dead with a parts lot i had purchased

Didn't want to waste your time if they are to far gone.... but it is possible to fix them.

I will send you a PM
Rich
2017-8-17 15:45:19
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RichJ53
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DTK Posted at 2017-8-17 14:54
Rich, it is really a good idea. T47 and 48 are expensive battery, it is more than 50% of equivalent OEM lipo battery. I also find that the capacity is deterioring rather fast with every recharge. Not to mention hiccups on unbalancing cells issue. Throwing away unnecessary these batteries also is not a good idea. I will have 2 for my icharger.


DTK

yah, it is worth having for the sole reason of troubleshoot or even discharge the battery with a nice quality charger. Just keep in mind that you cannot crank up the current... I was not in a hurry and the safe way is to let the battery cells first balance and then only put about .3mA current on them after that. The conductors used in the harness are not large enough to carry high current. This should be considered only for small tasks to try and rescue a expensive battery that is no longer under warranty

All the best

Rich
2017-8-17 15:59:02
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Mark Guille
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Rich,

Cell 5 in my TB47 has a lower voltage than the rest, I can see your idea would help me out here but if I am going to take the top off my battery, I may as well just connect the DJI charger, via a couple cables and crocodile clips, to cell 5 and top it up, check it every 5 minutes or so with a multimeter until it has the same voltage as the rest. Am I missing the point here?

Mark G.
2017-8-18 00:04:30
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DTK
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Dji charger will not provide the right voltage to 1 cell. It is charging 6 cells. You need a more sofisticated charger.
2017-8-18 04:52:24
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RichJ53
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Mark Guille Posted at 2017-8-18 00:04
Rich,

Cell 5 in my TB47 has a lower voltage than the rest, I can see your idea would help me out here but if I am going to take the top off my battery, I may as well just connect the DJI charger, via a couple cables and crocodile clips, to cell 5 and top it up, check it every 5 minutes or so with a multimeter until it has the same voltage as the rest. Am I missing the point here?

Hi Mark,

Yah I have seen some Youtube videos to get some charge back into a dead TB 47 battery using the DJI charger (power supply) directly to the top of the battery  - & + power leads.  The problem with this is you cannot monitor the cell voltage properly. You are dumping power into all the cells hoping to bring them up enough to get the regular method of charging to work again. This will not allow the cells to balance to the same level for all 6 cells. The Intelligent circuit is not smart enough (sorry DJI) to get a severely out of balance cells back in line with the others. Stressing the Li-Po battery will degrade the charge cycle performance too.   My example in the photos with cell #2 would not charge correctly. look at the voltage and cell capacity of the first three cells.  Cell #1 at 97% cell #2 at 60% and cell #3 at 96%  screen shots below. This is why I came up with the idea for the harness..

The other risk putting power directly into the top of the battery (without a balance lead), is all the cells will get the power if it is needed or not and could be unsafe or start a fire. Putting excessive  voltage / current into a cell without regulation can cause the cell to outgas into the sealed package that will cause the battery to swell or puff.  

So in a perfect world DJI could have made these batteries with the ability to service them (like most other Li-Po batteries in the hobby) I think they wanted to make the battery easy to manage for the masses and when you have a problem.... just buy a new one. Great idea if you are the only one selling the batteries

Rich

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2017-8-18 08:02:51
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Mark Guille
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Rich,

I was thinking more along these lines.

I have now taken the top off and taken a reading of all the individual cells. As you can see, the voltage in cell 5 is lower than the rest.





The plan is to connect the DJI charger to cell 5 only, checking every 5 - 10 minutes until I get the voltage up to the same as the others.

I may do this outside, just in case{:4_113:}{:4_113:}

If anyone can see a flaw in my plan, please let me know sooner rather than later.

Mark G.
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2017-8-18 12:13:53
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RichJ53
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Mark Guille Posted at 2017-8-18 12:13
Rich,

I was thinking more along these lines.

Top photo didn't stick. The DJI charger (power supply) is really not designed to be used like this. I am not sure that this is a good idea. I strongly believe it is better to discharge the high cells to match the low one and then charge all the cells back up together.  I know that others have tried putting power onto the whole battery pack, but you are trying to just charge one cell.....  I respect what you are trying to do, but it does not appear to be safe endeavor.


You have a similar situation that my battery above had (except cell #2)

Rich

2017-8-18 14:44:56
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Mark Guille
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Wise words Rich. Obviously draining the other 5 cells would take longer but safety would be the key factor here. Any suggestions on how to drain them safely. I'm thinking of pulling a motor from one of my old RC heli's (blades off obviously). The more I look into this, the more I'm thinking your harness would be a good idea, I'm still going to do this the stubborn donkey way but the next time I have a cell out of balance, I may be calling on you.

Mark G.
2017-8-19 02:07:13
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Henry M.Y.
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Mark Guille Posted at 2017-8-19 02:07
Wise words Rich. Obviously draining the other 5 cells would take longer but safety would be the key factor here. Any suggestions on how to drain them safely. I'm thinking of pulling a motor from one of my old RC heli's (blades off obviously). The more I look into this, the more I'm thinking your harness would be a good idea, I'm still going to do this the stubborn donkey way but the next time I have a cell out of balance, I may be calling on you.

Mark G.

Hi Mark,

If you possess LiPo charger (preset constant current say 4A in first phase, then constant voltage 4.35v in second phase) capable of charging as low as 1 cell, i think it will be safe for you to charge Cell 5 from 3.9v to 4.04v within the C.C. first phase without entering the second C.V. phase. You will have a nearly balanced battery, and can by then restore the battery back. Just let DJI's intelligent battery circuit to finish to topping out.

Of course safety comes first - doing this outside will cause no harm.

Henry

2017-8-19 03:06:18
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Mark Guille
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Henry M.Y. Posted at 2017-8-19 03:06
Hi Mark,

If you possess LiPo charger (preset constant current say 4A in first phase, then constant voltage 4.35v in second phase) capable of charging as low as 1 cell, i think it will be safe for you to charge Cell 5 from 3.9v to 4.04v within the C.C. first phase without entering the second C.V. phase. You will have a nearly balanced battery, and can by then restore the battery back. Just let DJI's intelligent battery circuit to finish to topping out.

Thanks Henry, I think I'll try draining the other cells though. Rich's idea is getting better and better the more I think about it.

Mark G.
2017-8-19 13:02:17
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RichJ53
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Some those users that do not know how the battery comes apart:
The TB-47 / 48 batteries have the top section held together with plastic tabs under the lips of the white top. Some videos on Youtube show using a cut up credit card to place underneath these tabs to help take this apart. I like using the tools provided by IFIXIT
Link to some of the tools

This example is with the top cover removed (which is more than you need). Please remember that if your battery is under warranty, do not take it apart, contact DJI support. Also, this is not for everyone and requires safe practices and caution.
Rich

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Video:
2017-8-19 16:16:14
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DALLASFREAK
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I don't think i would put my 3000 dollar bird up in the sky with a Dallasfreak repaired battery ....LOL
2017-8-20 03:41:54
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DALLASFREAK
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RichJ53 Posted at 2017-8-17 15:45
Didn't want to waste your time if they are to far gone.... but it is possible to fix them.

I will send you a PM

I will too......I use to fly RC helicopter and had all that equipment ...but the 2014 flood in Pensacola took all down the river so thats when I got into the drones.....but i will send battery to be fixed by a pro.
2017-8-20 03:45:00
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RichJ53 Posted at 2017-8-17 15:45
Didn't want to waste your time if they are to far gone.... but it is possible to fix them.

I will send you a PM

Rich, how much longer do you think the batteries are going to be available?  Dji Mindy said she didn't think they were even making batteries for the Inspire 1. Kind of hard to believe with many online stores still having multiple models available for sale. Would make no sense to me to stop producing the most important part to keep the bird flying, especially how expensive they are to begin with. If auto makers dropped support for cars they no longer produce, I think they would go out of business. These aren't exactly a cheap toy when you have several thousand dollars invested.
2017-8-20 11:41:54
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RichJ53
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Ups_Jeff Posted at 2017-8-20 11:41
Rich, how much longer do you think the batteries are going to be available?  Dji Mindy said she didn't think they were even making batteries for the Inspire 1. Kind of hard to believe with many online stores still having multiple models available for sale. Would make no sense to me to stop producing the most important part to keep the bird flying, especially how expensive they are to begin with. If auto makers dropped support for cars they no longer produce, I think they would go out of business. These aren't exactly a cheap toy when you have several thousand dollars invested.

Hi Jeff

I had not heard this rumor yet. That would be a big mistake by DJI. Many Inspire 1 owners out there need support for these great flying aircraft. DJI has the only battery in town and no third party parts are accepted by the Go App. Plus DJI is still selling the I1 on their website.

Hope it is not true and let's think that DJI will continue to support the Inspire 1
Rich
2017-8-20 14:31:26
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RichJ53
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DALLASFREAK Posted at 2017-8-20 03:45
I will too......I use to fly RC helicopter and had all that equipment ...but the 2014 flood in Pensacola took all down the river so thats when I got into the drones.....but i will send battery to be fixed by a pro.

I understand this is not for everyone, sorry to hear about your loss my friend!!

The battery above in my first post is heathly again and tried it today in my Inspire 1. Worked wonderfully for about 14 minutes. I landed and took it down to 2%, this way I could let the Intelligent circuit reset. I wanted to see how close the cells were as the battery discharged too. in the end they were within 4 microvolts and I am happy with that.
Tomorrow we have the big eclipse in Oregon. I will be flying my Inspire 1 with this battery to take some video of the event. I will be using my darkest ND filter (ND32) and see if I can get something?
Rich

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2017-8-20 14:39:25
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Ups_Jeff
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RichJ53 Posted at 2017-8-20 14:39
I understand this is not for everyone, sorry to hear about your loss my friend!!

The battery above in my first post is heathly again and tried it today in my Inspire 1. Worked wonderfully for about 14 minutes. I landed and took it down to 2%, this way I could let the Intelligent circuit reset. I wanted to see how close the cells were as the battery discharged too. in the end they were within 4 microvolts and I am happy with that.


How do you get it down to 2%? Mine shuts down long before then, and the motors won't come on. I can let the Inspire stay on, but it takes quite awhile to get it down to even 5%, after the motors shut off.
2017-8-20 15:09:48
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RichJ53
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Ups_Jeff Posted at 2017-8-20 15:09
How do you get it down to 2%? Mine shuts down long before then, and the motors won't come on. I can let the Inspire stay on, but it takes quite awhile to get it down to even 5%, after the motors shut off.

Just leave it on, run the camera... go into the Go App editor and look at the photos etc... anything to help run down the battery.

It's all charged up and looking good again. Within 1 microvolt 4.31 per cell  ... very happy with the results of the balance harness approach so far to repairing the battery.
Rich
2017-8-20 15:20:46
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Ups_Jeff
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RichJ53 Posted at 2017-8-20 15:20
Just leave it on, run the camera... go into the Go App editor and look at the photos etc... anything to help run down the battery.

It's all charged up and looking good again. Within 1 microvolt 4.31 per cell  ... very happy with the results of the balance harness approach so far to repairing the battery.

I am having fun with my Bird. I am working on getting my commercial license, and doing some Realestate photos. I will be able to retire from UPS in less than two years with a pension, but will be to young to touch my 401k or other savings, so I will need to make a little extra cash. I have to give this a shot before I resort to getting a regular job. I want to be up and running by the end of the year. We have a strong Realestate market here in Florida, and have checked out online to see who else is doing the aerial photography in my area, and spoke to a few agents I know. They keep telling me that there arent enough licensed drone pilots in the area, so we shall see. Whats the worst thing that can happen? I buy more toys, and am stuck using them for pleasure.
2017-8-20 15:31:16
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RichJ53
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Ups_Jeff Posted at 2017-8-20 15:31
I am having fun with my Bird. I am working on getting my commercial license, and doing some Realestate photos. I will be able to retire from UPS in less than two years with a pension, but will be to young to touch my 401k or other savings, so I will need to make a little extra cash. I have to give this a shot before I resort to getting a regular job. I want to be up and running by the end of the year. We have a strong Realestate market here in Florida, and have checked out online to see who else is doing the aerial photography in my area, and spoke to a few agents I know. They keep telling me that there arent enough licensed drone pilots in the area, so we shall see. Whats the worst thing that can happen? I buy more toys, and am stuck using them for pleasure.

Sounds like a great plan... hope it works out for you. Either way you will be having fun.

PS. Retire before your back gives out   

Rich
2017-8-20 16:30:47
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Ups_Jeff
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RichJ53 Posted at 2017-8-20 16:30
Sounds like a great plan... hope it works out for you. Either way you will be having fun.

PS. Retire before your back gives out   

Already have back problems, bad discs lumbar spine.
2017-8-20 17:08:05
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RichJ53
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Ups_Jeff Posted at 2017-8-20 17:08
Already have back problems, bad discs lumbar spine.

sorry man that sucks...  Hey if you need help spending your 401K I am old enough  

Rich
2017-8-20 17:07:21
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Ups_Jeff
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RichJ53 Posted at 2017-8-20 17:07
sorry man that sucks...  Hey if you need help spending your 401K I am old enough  

Rich

Like a money laundering scheme? LoL
2017-8-20 19:30:35
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TruGreen
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Ups_Jeff Posted at 2017-8-20 11:41
Rich, how much longer do you think the batteries are going to be available?  Dji Mindy said she didn't think they were even making batteries for the Inspire 1. Kind of hard to believe with many online stores still having multiple models available for sale. Would make no sense to me to stop producing the most important part to keep the bird flying, especially how expensive they are to begin with. If auto makers dropped support for cars they no longer produce, I think they would go out of business. These aren't exactly a cheap toy when you have several thousand dollars invested.

i dont see this being possible as mistake me if im wrong but the Matrice series uses the same TB47/48 batteries with just different tops
2017-8-22 19:28:59
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RichJ53
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TruGreen Posted at 2017-8-22 19:28
i dont see this being possible as mistake me if im wrong but the Matrice series uses the same TB47/48 batteries with just different tops

I agree with you, these batteries should be available for a long time into the future

Rich
2017-8-24 19:22:04
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Donnie *
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RichJ53 Posted at 2017-8-19 16:16
Some those users that do not know how the battery comes apart:
The TB-47 / 48 batteries have the top section held together with plastic tabs under the lips of the white top. Some videos on Youtube show using a cut up credit card to place underneath these tabs to help take this apart. I like using the tools provided by IFIXIT
Link to some of the tools

Nice Job on this Captain Rich , well thought out and explained , I love it !!

donnie
2017-8-25 04:51:35
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RichJ53
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Donnie * Posted at 2017-8-25 04:51
Nice Job on this Captain Rich , well thought out and explained , I love it !!

donnie


Thanks Donnie
I was hoping to get some interest become there are a lot of these birds still in service. As you might know the Inspire 2 batteries are not serviceable. The cases are glued together.  So, unless you break them apart, its a no go...

All the best
Rich

2017-8-26 16:54:04
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RichJ53
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Mark Guille Posted at 2017-8-19 13:02
Thanks Henry, I think I'll try draining the other cells though. Rich's idea is getting better and better the more I think about it.

Mark G.

Mark.
I have sent you a PM.

Rich
2017-8-28 20:01:48
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RichJ53
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Mark Guille Posted at 2017-8-19 13:02
Thanks Henry, I think I'll try draining the other cells though. Rich's idea is getting better and better the more I think about it.

Mark G.

Hi Mark

Received some parts  and making up the harness for you. Please email me your address information and will advise when it is ready/  
Rich
2017-9-7 19:21:57
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DTK
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Hi Rich, it seems that you are now in production. I am in Australia. What would the cost be getting this cable connection made? Want to get 5 sets.
2017-9-13 06:02:25
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