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Some observations on ATTI mode
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2633 41 2017-9-6
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Charles Adams
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I finally experienced ATTI mode on the spark this holiday weekend.  Given that I've practiced on my P3S, I was prepared to pilot the spark without the benefit of gps, and there were no mishaps, crashes, or undesired results.  But I did notice something when in ATTI mode that I'd thought I'd share, and see what others have experienced.

When I realized that I was in ATTI mode, and I mentally altered my approach to using the controls, I found the craft to be super-responsive to the controls, just as if it were in sport mode (though I was not).  Turns, movements, and propulsion were at a much higher rate than I was expecting.  I adjusted to this as well.

I've read the manual, but some things don't "stick", and I found on page 22 of the manual (after the fact) that if the craft switches to ATTI mode flight speed does in fact increase.  I don't know if this is equivalent to sport mode, but it was definitely a much more responsive/faster flight.  I don't typically fly in sport mode, but since this is the default behavior of ATTI mode then I (and others) might want/need to do some more practice in sport mode just so that I can be more familir with how nimble and responsive the craft is.

So consider this a word of caution and advice to those who (like me) spend some time practicing for these unexpected situations.
2017-9-6
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Charles Adams
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I've been doing some flying in Sport mode.  I'm sure I'm unusual in that I've not done sport mode before (maybe just once to perform a distance test).  My personal preferences have been to maximize photo and video opportunities, and less about speed.

I can say that the craft is quite responsive.  It's wicked fast and nimble.  I strongly recommend that after an individual becomes comfortable in "p mode", that it is important and even essential to practice in "s mode".  This is because the craft performs as if in "s mode" when it's in atti mode.  Pilots should practice and get comfortable with it in the event that they have no choice in flying in "atti mode".

I would also, however, recommend that new pilots not jump right into "s mode", regardless of how "top gun" you want to get.  Practice and become comfortable with "p mode" first.  I've been flying since the spark first came out, and I'm only now experimenting with "s mode".
2017-9-6
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JMX46
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Would be nice to be able to manually select ATTI level only mode (which can make for smoother flying and pans etc when filming)   (like my original Phantom 1)
2017-9-6
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Pirikitto
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how did you put it in ATTI mode for test?
2017-9-6
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Charles Adams
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JMX46 Posted at 2017-9-6 13:15
Would be nice to be able to manually select ATTI level only mode (which can make for smoother flying and pans etc when filming)   (like my original Phantom 1)

I'd love to see this added as a feature, though don't know if there's a reason why it could not be done in software only (no hardware on the RC to support it, except for maybe the buttons which are user-configurable).  Given that the spark is meant for "new drone enthusiasts", it would be nice to give these new flyers a means of practicing for all the circumstances that they might face while flying.

I envision a scenario where a user must first set home point (which requires GPS), THEN can go into ATTI mode.  Under this scenario the drone has a home point that can be used for RTH.  If the battery levels and distance dictate a need to RTH, the drone auto-switches back to GPS and then flies back home.  This seems to be a safe mechanism for new users, and still gives everyone opportunity to fly without the warm protection of GPS.
2017-9-6
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Charles Adams
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Pirikitto Posted at 2017-9-6 13:28
how did you put it in ATTI mode for test?

If you refer to the incident at the lake where it went to ATTI mode, that happened all by itself.  Fortunately I was experienced enough to know how to handle it.  Once I realized I wasn't flying with GPS, I decided that I would fly the spark back to my boat, and if I had enough control I would set it down.  If I lacked the necessary control for a precision landing, I was going to do a "controlled crash" onto the boat.  If I didn't have enough control to even perform a "controlled crash", I was going to fly the drone to shore and descend someplace dry where I could retrieve it.  Fortunately GPS resumed before I had to exercise any of these options.

If you refer to my practice in S-Mode, that was always under GPS.  There is no way I know of to manually disable GPS.  If I want a true ATTI-mode experience, I have to fly my P3S (which I do occasionally).
2017-9-6
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ZukySpark
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Why it changed to atti? Compass error? Gps weak?  Imu? Why we get gps weak error when we do have 17 sattelits?
2017-9-6
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Charles Adams
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ZukySpark Posted at 2017-9-6 14:17
Why it changed to atti? Compass error? Gps weak?  Imu? Why we get gps weak error when we do have 17 sattelits?

I don't know why it changed to atti that specific day under those circumstances.  I've not had time yet to analyze my logs, though I am curious and will eventually review the logs for clues.

There's always the possibility that I made a mistake.  Maybe I didn't wait for GPS lock when I launched.  Maybe there was some interference I hadn't encountered before someplace on my boat.

Either way, drone owners should expect it to happen at some point.  Some like the challenge of flying atti mode if their equipment supports it.
2017-9-6
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larrymull
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Charles, would love to know what your flight logs say and how it went in to ATTI mode too. Great to hear the spark responded well under the circumstances, it gives me a little bit more belief in my ability to fly the drone in ATTI mode. Thanks for the update.
2017-9-6
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ThirdEyeFlyin'
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When my bird went atti-tude on me it seemed as though it just announced "atti mode" and that was it. I don't recall any other warnings.
2017-9-6
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Lucas775
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For some reason I have been getting ATTI a lot lately, all I do is be more attentive to the AC(don't panic the drone won't fall out of the sky).  Maybe the magnetic pull of the earth is changing
2017-9-6
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fansf7fa979c
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I've only had ATTI mode happen indoors and had no issues with controlling the Spark when it happened. I did have to compensate for drift. The faster speeds make sense when you think about it.  When you lose GPS, I don't think the drone knows how fast it is going. If the software limited the speed, it would just have to limit the lean angle and you might find yourself in a situation where you could not get the drone back because of wind. In GPS mode, the speed can be limited based on ground speed, allowing the drone to lean more in windy situations to maintain its position.
2017-9-6
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Anuvis
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I  have almost 160 flights and during flight the craft never changed to ATTI mode.I can have atti mode in large underground parking and a large storage...
2017-9-7
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JMX46
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That's the thing if we had the ability to select ATTI mode manually (with appropriate warnings) - (even from the DJI GO Hud) then pilots could practice this in an open environment  ie sports field - to learn how to use it BEFORE they may be forced to that mode when GPS drops out (which is likely rare) - it also makes for some smooth higher speed flying and filming (reminds me of air hockey)
2017-9-7
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Michael Stoute
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I like the ATTI mode on my Spark.

2017-9-7
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Charles Adams
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Michael Stoute Posted at 2017-9-7 05:08
I like the ATTI mode on my Spark.

Spark ATTI mode

Was this flight (which only has gps at the start) entirely by chance?
2017-9-7
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WickedWingman
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i need to give sport mode a try.  i come from the racing/freestyle scene.  i'm curious if it will feel more natural for me.  i flew my spark for the first time yesterday, and it felt sluggish and awkward.  the biggest thing i notice (other than return to center throttle stick) is that a coordinated roll/yaw maneuver doesn't feel the same.  i wonder if it's just the gimbal correcting the roll axis, or if the yaw and roll axis rates are more disproportionate than i'm used to.  
when trying to manually circle an object with my freestyle drone, i would coordinate my yaw and roll axis to keep the camera pointed in the center as i circled around the object.  here, it  felt as tho the roll axis more quickly moved me sideways than the yaw axis rotated my attitude.
on a miniquad, i also incorporate throttle to increase the speed of my maneuver.  for instance, if i wanted to move laterally quickly, i would roll to one side and then increase throttle to move laterally quicker.  with the spark, throttle seems immediately connected to altitude with almost no effect on lateral movement.  it's likely just the rates and max angle possible on the roll axis during gps mode. with minimal angle of roll, you would have a majority of thrust still in the upward direction.
2017-9-7
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WickedWingman
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for those of you unfamiliar with the other side of our hobby, take a look at one of our team pilots doing a little freestyle flying.  it's a little different than the dji side of things!
2017-9-7
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Michael Stoute
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Charles Adams Posted at 2017-9-7 05:23
Was this flight (which only has gps at the start) entirely by chance?

No, by switch.
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Charles Adams
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On a standard RC?  This didn't appear (in video) to be a software switch, and I didn't think that there was a physical switch for this setting on the RC.
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Michael Stoute
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Charles Adams Posted at 2017-9-7 06:06
On a standard RC?  This didn't appear (in video) to be a software switch, and I didn't think that there was a physical switch for this setting on the RC.

Sport switch on the RC, to the left GPS to the right ATTI.
2017-9-7
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hallmark007
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WickedWingman Posted at 2017-9-7 05:20
i need to give sport mode a try.  i come from the racing/freestyle scene.  i'm curious if it will feel more natural for me.  i flew my spark for the first time yesterday, and it felt sluggish and awkward.  the biggest thing i notice (other than return to center throttle stick) is that a coordinated roll/yaw maneuver doesn't feel the same.  i wonder if it's just the gimbal correcting the roll axis, or if the yaw and roll axis rates are more disproportionate than i'm used to.  
when trying to manually circle an object with my freestyle drone, i would coordinate my yaw and roll axis to keep the camera pointed in the center as i circled around the object.  here, it  felt as tho the roll axis more quickly moved me sideways than the yaw axis rotated my attitude.
on a miniquad, i also incorporate throttle to increase the speed of my maneuver.  for instance, if i wanted to move laterally quickly, i would roll to one side and then increase throttle to move laterally quicker.  with the spark, throttle seems immediately connected to altitude with almost no effect on lateral movement.  it's likely just the rates and max angle possible on the roll axis during gps mode. with minimal angle of roll, you would have a majority of thrust still in the upward direction.

You can reset flight speed controls in your app, you will need to be connected to AC to change settings, sport mode is much more sensitive and reactive this should suit with further changes in speed controls might help you, video may not be as smooth in all circumstances.
2017-9-7
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Charles Adams
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Michael Stoute Posted at 2017-9-7 06:41
Sport switch on the RC, to the left GPS to the right ATTI.

Due to an (over???) abundance of caution, I've only used sport mode twice.  Once was this past weekend.  I'll need to test tonight if weather permits.  I don't recall that it switched out of gps mode.  Gives me an excuse to fly
2017-9-7
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fansa7dc5944
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Nop. GPS is still ON in Sport mode. Put your hand off the sticks, it will stay where it is.
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Charles Adams
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Michael Stoute Posted at 2017-9-7 06:41
Sport switch on the RC, to the left GPS to the right ATTI.

So for your system (phone+rc+spark) switching to sport mode takes you out of GPS mode?  I don't think that's my behavior.  Do you have something else configured to facilitate this?

It's in the video, I definitely see that you are in ATTI mode.  Just don't know how your "s mode" does that for you.
2017-9-7
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JMR58
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Charles Adams Posted at 2017-9-7 09:05
So for your system (phone+rc+spark) switching to sport mode takes you out of GPS mode?  I don't think that's my behavior.  Do you have something else configured to facilitate this?

It's in the video, I definitely see that you are in ATTI mode.  Just don't know how your "s mode" does that for you.

maybe covered the back of the bird??
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Charles Adams
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JMR58 Posted at 2017-9-7 09:28
maybe covered the back of the bird??

No, in the video it shows him lifting off and climbing above house level, pausing there while (presumably) "s mode" is turned on.  Simultaneously, the craft leaves gps and goes into atti.

It's magic.
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Nick779
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WickedWingman Posted at 2017-9-7 05:20
i need to give sport mode a try.  i come from the racing/freestyle scene.  i'm curious if it will feel more natural for me.  i flew my spark for the first time yesterday, and it felt sluggish and awkward.  the biggest thing i notice (other than return to center throttle stick) is that a coordinated roll/yaw maneuver doesn't feel the same.  i wonder if it's just the gimbal correcting the roll axis, or if the yaw and roll axis rates are more disproportionate than i'm used to.  
when trying to manually circle an object with my freestyle drone, i would coordinate my yaw and roll axis to keep the camera pointed in the center as i circled around the object.  here, it  felt as tho the roll axis more quickly moved me sideways than the yaw axis rotated my attitude.
on a miniquad, i also incorporate throttle to increase the speed of my maneuver.  for instance, if i wanted to move laterally quickly, i would roll to one side and then increase throttle to move laterally quicker.  with the spark, throttle seems immediately connected to altitude with almost no effect on lateral movement.  it's likely just the rates and max angle possible on the roll axis during gps mode. with minimal angle of roll, you would have a majority of thrust still in the upward direction.

I come from a competitive racing background too, it flies nothing like a miniquad in RATE mode. The latency makes it unflyable for proximity FPV too. Its really weird not needing to manage your throttle anymore.

Still, its not really designed for that but thats been my experience.
2017-9-7
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Sparky_17
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Thanks for the valuable information.  I was able to get my spark to go from GPS to ATTI mode when I flew into my garage (door open) and when I flew out, it returned to GPS mode.  I was able to replicate this during the same flight.  I too didn't notice any issues flying in ATTI mode.

I will test it again on the weekend and set up a video of my experience.
2017-9-7
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Kloo Gee
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Michael Stoute Posted at 2017-9-7 06:41
Sport switch on the RC, to the left GPS to the right ATTI.

Sport mode and ATTI mode should be 2 completely different things!  I fly in Sport mode quite frequently.  When I flip the switch from left to right, is says "Sport" and stays green.  
2017-9-7
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Charles Adams
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Michael Stoute Posted at 2017-9-7 05:08
I like the ATTI mode on my Spark.

Spark ATTI mode

I tested sport mode this weekend, and I found that my system did not exit GPS mode when I went "sport".  Based on your video, yours does.  Do you have any idea on how/why you are able to control this?  I am unable to "force" atti mode.
2017-9-11
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Montfrooij
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Charles Adams Posted at 2017-9-6 13:05
I've been doing some flying in Sport mode.  I'm sure I'm unusual in that I've not done sport mode before (maybe just once to perform a distance test).  My personal preferences have been to maximize photo and video opportunities, and less about speed.

I can say that the craft is quite responsive.  It's wicked fast and nimble.  I strongly recommend that after an individual becomes comfortable in "p mode", that it is important and even essential to practice in "s mode".  This is because the craft performs as if in "s mode" when it's in atti mode.  Pilots should practice and get comfortable with it in the event that they have no choice in flying in "atti mode".

Thanks for both pieces of advice!
2017-9-11
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Montfrooij
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JMX46 Posted at 2017-9-6 13:15
Would be nice to be able to manually select ATTI level only mode (which can make for smoother flying and pans etc when filming)   (like my original Phantom 1)

I would love that for sure!
2017-9-11
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Montfrooij
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Pirikitto Posted at 2017-9-6 13:28
how did you put it in ATTI mode for test?

You can't for now. At least not on the Spark.
2017-9-11
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Montfrooij
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Michael Stoute Posted at 2017-9-7 05:08
I like the ATTI mode on my Spark.

Spark ATTI mode

Was this shot on Spark?
2017-9-11
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Montfrooij
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WickedWingman Posted at 2017-9-7 05:27
for those of you unfamiliar with the other side of our hobby, take a look at one of our team pilots doing a little freestyle flying.  it's a little different than the dji side of things!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPXTtjvdJDk

That is amazing!
2017-9-11
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Michael Stoute
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Montfrooij Posted at 2017-9-11 11:49
Was this shot on Spark?

Yes.
DroneZBreak.png
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Montfrooij
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Thanks. Although I must say the screenshot shows 'Mavic Pro' in the bottom part.
Somehow I feel this is not supported software
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Montfrooij
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Ah, I see, the images was taken from Github.
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Charles Adams
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OK, so if I'm interpreting this accurately:  The functionality of the system was altered, and sport mode was turned to atti mode.

That's cool.  I personally won't be doing such a mod, but I like and appreciate that other daring souls are willing to do so and willing to share.

Very cool.
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