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Bob Marley's New Bird w/ 1st TORNADO AFTERMATH Video !!!
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Mkell_CA_SF.BAY
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Hi Bob, I want to thank you for all the work you are putting in, now and in the future, on charging efficiency with this thread and future inspire 1 related threads. It would be nice if everyone was able to take a chill pill and just let this unfold as it needs to. You're still in the middle of researching all of your findings and I will definitely be keeping an eye and ear out for more. You've got valuable information to share...; everyone will always have an opinion...wrong or right. We are all here (I think) for information to make us better pilots and to share our experiences after all. Keep doing what you are doing, jaginthewhatevers or not.
2015-4-6
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Dangair
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w1der Posted at 2015-4-6 15:27
Move on ... To where ... And why !?

I used to be like Bob ... I wasn't aware of it back then . ...

Interesting? Diagnosing a person with Autism just by his comments? I would think there are a few more criteria that need be met first. It is enough to say that he does not handle the second position well and when put there he becomes offensive. This is commonly referred to as a personality disorder. It could be megalomania, little guy syndrome, egotism, narcissism all of the above or just plain arshole! In any event it shouldn't be tolerated here or anywhere else. I will say no more on the matter and I apologize if I offended anyone with my comments. Bob, you are always welcome to share you knowledge with us and have good conversation. It's ok to be wrong sometimes and to make the odd comment now and then but please be tolerant and respectful of others. Think before you offend.
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Bob Marley
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jhanson290@gmai Posted at 2015-4-7 03:17
I agree with everything you have said.  Although...  b]Are you saying non of them are sufficient because of this?...




Please tell me you're joking, right?

The ONLY thing I'm saying is the charger for the lipo packs on the I1 want waaay more than the supplied power supply could handle.
I proved this with easy to understand facts with accompanying pics. And if you have heard, (dji agrees with me as well, new supplies to be released shortly)

If you read this tread you will see from the very first post that in order to get the TRUTH I had to insert a watt meter between the source and supply to see what was actually going on.

Are you asking me to come to your house and insert a watt meter between all ur power supplies and sources so I can answer ur question? I'm not going to do that of course but nothing is stopping you my friend.

Grab one of your hot power supplies, cut the cord and insert a watt meter. Then you can compare the wattage drawn from the power supply and you can compare that to the rating on the sticker.

(didn't you learn anything from this?)

Bob "scratching his head" Marley
2015-4-6
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w1der
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Dangair Posted at 2015-4-7 04:18
Interesting? Diagnosing a person with Autism just by his comments? I would think there are a few m ...

I don't especially like it when people take something I say and try making it into something else ...

You seem to be quite good at doing this
Now ... Bob is back and that makes me alot happier ... So I forgive you!
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Bob Marley
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w1der Posted at 2015-4-7 04:42
Now ... Bob is back and that makes me alot happier ... . ...


I'm only back because of all the good flyers on this site that appreciate my time, and have posted so.
(had I had not seen allnice posts, I wouldn't be back).
I won't abandoned you guys, we'll have fun with all of this while guys like Dangair can watch from the Outside at us growing in knowledge together -


Bob Marley
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w1der
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Bob Marley Posted at 2015-4-7 04:57
I'm only back because of all the good flyers on this site that appreciate my time, and have posted ...

As you have knowledge in LiPo batteries ...

Take a look at my question in this thread ... As No one else has an answer maybee you do

http://forum.dji.com/forum.php?m ... age%3D1&lang=en
2015-4-6
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bostonlines
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let's see some footage Bob!  Have you flown her yet?
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DJK
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RichJ53 Posted at 2015-4-5 00:04
I see your point and understand. I heard the DJI is coming out with a larger charging solution soo ...

Can you give me a reference to where you are getting the 1200 watt supply (although 700 watts would be plenty), assuming this is a portable supply? I would like to build a charging box using an old metal ammo can (with cooling from the case or a top mounted fan if necessary), and would prefer not to have to fit three DJI power supplies. Really looking to add to the safety and storage of the charging/charged batteries.
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RichJ53
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DJK Posted at 2015-4-7 06:52
Can you give me a reference to where you are getting the 1200 watt supply (although 700 watts would ...


I posted this information on the second page of this post. You can see the link below for the Protek 1200 watt power supply.
They have a smaller model that might work for you. http://www.amain.com/rc-helicopt ... w-thp1527ps/p243994

"With dual outputs, 60 Amps of current and 1200 Watts of power, the Prodigy 1200W has the power to run multiple DC devices at the same time with headroom to spare. Other features include 12V-24V adjustable output voltage, 100V-220V world wide voltage compatibility, an LCD status display screen, and a 2.1 Amp USB charging port."

This is the 1200 watt power supply I use for my other RC gear. Check this link below. It is a very nice bench model design. I have had great luck with this one and it has lots of head room.
http://www.amain.com/rc-helicopt ... 0w-ptk-8515/p260581
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DJK
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RichJ53 Posted at 2015-4-7 08:04
I posted this information on the second page of this post. You can see the link below for the Prot ...

Thank you for re-posting, I looked thru the pages of the postings and did not see it.
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RichJ53
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Bob Marley Posted at 2015-4-7 02:43
OMG - DOESN'T ANYONE ON THIS SITE READ THE FLIPPING MANUAL!

FIRST SENTANCE PAGE 60  MAX CHARGE 180W ...

Hey Bob,

You will need to compare notes with me about setting the voltage on the 1200 watt power supply. I wasn't sure how much over voltage it should be set for: meaning over the target 22.2VDC. Glad to hear you are getting one. You will not be disappointed!
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DJK
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Caution...LiPo's don't play nice with more than 4.2 volts per cell.
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RichJ53
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DJK Posted at 2015-4-7 08:29
Caution...LiPo's don't play nice with more than 4.2 volts per cell.

looks like maximum  is 24VDC
12V-24V adjustable output voltage
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DJK
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I would be very cautious with exceeding the factory charger voltage. Considering $150-200 per battery, and the recent battery fire during a normal charge.

I have seen comments that the 6 cells can handle a higher amp charge rate, and I don't have objective evidence either way. The charging control circuitry should manage the amp rate with the voltage within specs. I see higher voltage from the factory charger on Bob's measurement of the voltage, but do not know what the variation was during the charge cycle.

The problem with any experimentation is you likely void the warranty, and might have an issue with your fire insurance coverage.

The tight battery cell design with this large battery has hopefully been well studied and has a large safety margin in the design. Pushing the factory specs comes with notable risk.  

I would not be willing to push the factory supplies voltage without the design specs of the charge controller, and expert knowledge and design experience with this technology....

Looks like your 24v is lower than the factory charger...





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Bob Marley
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bostonlines@gma Posted at 2015-4-7 06:49
let's see some footage Bob!  Have you flown her yet?

Went to take her out tonight for the first time.
It was dark, cloudy, windy, and cold. I flew her anyways.
Got that dreaded warning "firmware upgrade" so I kept dicking around and rebooting until the message disappeared. did an imu, a compass dance, got a gps good to go an took off.

Man, this is one powerful bird. Wind was honking, I! held it's ground, (with a pretty nice tilt). Couldn't see worth chit and would lose orientation at distance against the dk grey clouds that touched the horizon. Tooled around a little bit, this bird is fast what fun !!! (I wonder if I could loop her if I disconnected gps)?

Only flew the 47 down to 30%, hands were freezing and so was my flying buddy, so we packed it up and went home. Can't wait til some decent weather to really spin her around a little bit.

Quick question, hooked up the Shield as master, air 1 as slave. set them both up in the app, entered the master's pass, etc. Got the slave radio to control the gimbal, but there was no video feed to the slave.
I didn't have much time before dark so left with only one radio. What am I missing, surely a press of the correct button will give me video on the slave, surely I missed something?
2015-4-6
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RichJ53
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DJK Posted at 2015-4-7 09:19
I would be very cautious with exceeding the factory charger voltage. Considering $150-200 per batter ...

Again, I am not an expert and know enough to keep out of trouble.

If each cell can hold a full charge (with the overcharge) of 4.2V per cell, this would equal 25.2V. It takes a lot longer to pump the last bit of charge into a battery cell, using a lower voltage setting, it might not get there. So while charging the battery cells gets to the maximum level when the charger is capable of equal to or slightly higher than the rated pack voltage.

Hey Bob, I wonder if this power supply will do the job with only a max of 24VDC?
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Bob Marley
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DJK Posted at 2015-4-7 06:52
Can you give me a reference to where you are getting the 1200 watt supply (although 700 watts would ...

I will be charging 4 packs at the same time at an estimated 800w total.
I want my Power Supply to have head room so it remains cool and lasts for many, many years.
The 1200w supply Rich linked us to previously is not large and will be a perfect mobile solution as it will consume about half as much power as the average hair dryer and will work on any common outside receptacle. I will be able to charge 4 packs in 45 minutes, (as I posted 1 whole month ago on rcg) without any modification to dji's charger or lipo. The 4 lipo packs and the power supply will remain cool throughout the 40 minute charge cycle. THIS is what I refer to as the "sweet spot" and was my goal from the beginning. ALL of my airship power trains run powerful and cool, as do all of my charging systems.
I find the sweet spot for all of my electronics as I like to run as efficiently as possible -

Bob
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Bob Marley
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DJK Posted at 2015-4-7 08:29
Caution...LiPo's don't play nice with more than 4.2 volts per cell.


See, this ^^^ is 100% bs, (but you state it as if it's fact, misinforming everyone who is not smart enough to know better).
No disrespect here DJK, but if you were paying attention to the very first post I have a picture that proves that 4.33 per cell is very nice -

U can do the math yourself if you don't trust my calculations. Take the pack voltage of 25.99 and divide it by the 6 cells.

All 4 of my high end chargers charge each cell to 4.3 - my 2 chit chargers charge to 4.2 (u just told us which one u have)


Don't you guys just loves pics?

Bob
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DJK
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Ok I'm will refrain from commenting further on your apparent expert opinion and  "your" post, I stated that I don't claim to be an expert, and that one should be cautious before exceeding the manufacturers specs.

If you re-read my post, I said..."I would be very cautious with exceeding the factory charger voltage. " whatever those numbers are throughout the charging cycle.

You have numbers on a meter, and I don't see an NBS traceable calibration sticker on the non-precision meter you are using.

If you research LiPo cells on the web you can see that the optimum voltage is 3.7 volts, i.e. the 22.2 volt spec, and a max "recommended" voltage of 4.2 per cell. That being the basis for me saying they don't play well over 4.2 volts, but we don't really know what the cell voltage is do we?

If the factory has designed them for continuously higher numbers, great. The charging circuit might even have a voltage regulator built in that internally limits the voltage, but I don't have any idea what is inside the charging controller. And DJI has certainly considered their liability in the design.
Caution>>>Just because you can do it does not mean that it is safe to do it, and you might want to consider your personal liability associated with your recommendations.

AGAIN>>>>I only suggest caution when exceeding the manufacturers specs, your are playing with LiPo batteries that catch on fire!


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Bob Marley
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OK, HERE is the power supply I'm getting.



1000w
adjustable voltage and amps

0-41.7a
22-27.5v


Perfect for a 4 pack charge box !!!

Bob
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Bob Marley
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DJK Posted at 2015-4-7 10:40
exceeding the manufacturers specs ...


Brother, no one, and I mean no one, has stated that anyone here plans to "exceeding the manufacturers specs" even one time.

unfortuneatly ........ YOU STILL DON'T GET IT.

AGAIN ONE LAST TIME ......................................
You can have a zillion watt "power supply", set it on 26v, and connect it to the charger on a tb48 and according to page 60 of the manual, the TB48 will ask the zillion watt power supply for only 180w, and that is all you will see on the watt meter, (not a zillion watts).

w1der, will you "splain" it to him please -



Bob "Loved by Many, Hated by Some" Marley


ps. "Ok I'm will refrain from commenting further on your apparent expert opinion"

I'm am not giving anyone "my expert opinion", I am posting FACTS and backing them up with PICTURES
(it's all you others that are posting opinions, and pretending that they are "facts")





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Bob Marley
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RichJ53 Posted at 2015-4-7 09:45
Hey Bob, I wonder if this power supply will do the job with only a max of 24VDC? ...


No Rich, you are correct, with no adjustable voltage, we will pass.
Look at the kick ass power supply I posted about (a few up from this one).
It's great, only $180 bucks, and waaaay better than 3 dji laptop fireboxes costing the same and taking twice as long to charge (1000w vs 300w) lol

Let's both get one and we will build it together.
I'll get on the plans tomorrow evening -
2015-4-6
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houston
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Following this power supply thread with great anticipation. Would love to charge my batteries in 45 minutes.  Thanks to Bob and Rich.
2015-4-6
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dundee
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houston Posted at 2015-4-7 12:52
Following this power supply thread with great anticipation. Would love to charge my batteries in 45  ...

Forget charging at a faster rate without altering the TB47/48 !!
A more powerful supply is better then the stock supply, but then don't forget
to order the matching plugs as they are sold at 8$ for a cableset.
So Bobs pack would cost $180 + $24= $204 if you have 3 batteries.
I can't seem to find these plugs on the aftermarket. Can you ?
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Bob Marley
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For guys that feel intimidated by this sorta thing, it's very easy to do, I have been doing it for years.

Here is a
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Bob Marley
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dundee Posted at 2015-4-7 13:14
I can't seem to find these plugs on the aftermarket. Can you ?...


There is a reason why I am NOT copying your idea of ganging up several overpriced/underachieving laptop power supplies like you are using in your charge box. (I do not find it advantageous to take a really bad idea ...... then multiply it by 4   )

My solution will be far superior, safer, cooler,  and the charge times will be reduced dramatically.
(the only advantage u will have with your charge box will be the ability to heat a small apartment while charging ur packs).

I will NOT be asking you for help designing my charge box, (so why are you searching the web for my supplies?).


Bob "abuse sponge" Square Pants
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Bob Marley
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dundee Posted at 2015-4-7 13:14
Forget charging at a faster rate without altering the TB47/48 !!
  ...


Please explain this to us why I should "forget this whole thing" Dundee, (you say that ......... then no explanation?)
Why/how would we HAVE to alter the TB47/48? (obviously we can't).

Here is what I have learned.
If one tb48 pack is hooked up to a 300w supply and is allowed to charge the pack at 180w (page 60 in the manual)
And another tb48 pack is hooked up to the 100w laptop supply and is allowed to charge the pack at 100w -
The first pack will indeed charge faster - no doubt, (with no alterations).

Can you please explain to us why You say otherwise? (or should I just give up now, take ur word, not even order the SE 1000)
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dundee
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Bob Marley Posted at 2015-4-7 14:09
Please explain this to us why I should "forget this whole thing" Dundee, (you say that ......... t ...


Hi Bob,

Do not misunderstand me, i really agree with what you preach.

But im waiting now until you show "charge times will be reduced dramatically",
under the condition ofcourse that you don't alter the charger.

Also i wonder if the battery will be hotter after a faster chargetime or not.
I tested out that TB47/48 do not start charging if battery temperature is more then 40c

Maybe the battery will temporary stop charging when it reaches 40c.
And if so, it would undermine the fast charging. (My 2cents)

No, i'm not searching the web for supplies.
Just wanted to point out that you have to buy plugs too.
Not so cheap for most at $8 per piece.

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Dangair
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You still haven't addressed the health of the batteries? The slower these batteries are charged( to a point ) the nicer for them. Bob, I actually do appreciate the effort you are making and agree with almost everything you have said so far. I appreciate the fact that you are trying very hard not to shank anyone now.... That's awesome! I too await your findings many good things are likely to be learned from this thread. You can hate me if you like, won't hurt my feelings, personally I'm a more into getting mad, punching it out and getting over it, but if you feel it's healthier to carry grudges goodonya mate.
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dundee
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Dangair Posted at 2015-4-7 22:32
You still haven't addressed the health of the batteries? The slower these batteries are charged( to  ...

Hi Dangair, look at page 22.
Looks like issues coming if you fool around with the power supply, although Bob is correct
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Farnk666
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Hey Bob,
Your intentions are great - some of the info useful and the conversation worth having.

However your approach to dealing with others is horrendous.
I don't know what your personal situation or status is, but the negative and bullying manner in which you interact with others just completely invalidates any good that you are trying to achieve for the community. You've turned from an enthusiastic new member into a Troll in a matter of days.

You may not understand why or what I'm saying here - but these behaviours need to be called out and you need to get some specialised help. You act like a spoiled toddler screaming for attention from a disinterested Parent who has grown tired of your outbursts.
So we get the personal attacks, feigned outrage if others seek clarification (or put forward an alternative view).

The problem here is nothing to do with how DJI specified a power supply configuration from it's subcontracted supplier - it has entirely become your lack of interpersonal, communication and social skills.

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GazFromBrum
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This thread has been interesting, enlightening and down right hilarious.

Bobs points, views and information provides the first two..... the argumentative self righteous defensive others have provided the hilarity.

Why do so many posters have to come in and argue a point....... only to back track and agree later..... please think it through before posting it saves space.... makes the thread easier to follow and prevents you becoming hostile when proven wrong. So many on here take offence way too easily...... I laugh myself silly reading your defensive replies to Bobs frustration fueled posts. Guys please be less easily offended life is way too short. Laugh at it.... its better for you.

Take life less serious guys..... some of you must argue with your reflection while shaving in the morning. Some have posted a dislike for how Bob puts himself across...... yet you entered a thread started by him....... just to annoy and push for a response...... Dangair even admitted doing so.......... if you dislike his posts so much why are you here reading them.

Some STILL insist on calling a power supply a charger...... some can't grasp that a power supply only supplies whats requested of it...... some can't understand that a battery charger will only request what he needs to charge the battery at the levels it requires...... but we all are here for info and fun..... god love you all....lol
Thank you Bob for a great thread.......keep it up.


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mattd
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From what I understand by this thread

The power supply "brick" that DJI supply is just a power supply. The actual charger electronics are in the battery itself. So it doesn't matter how much volts/amps your power supply can give, the charger in the battery will only take what is needed.

So I am not sure how you can charge the TB47 batteries any faster than what they are now, because you would have to remove the charger chip inside the battery or by pass it to directly connect to the battery itself. However for TB48 batteries, it appears these  power supplies as identified by Bob show that they don't have the capacity to support what they need to charger efficently. So with a proper power supply connected it would inturn give a decrease to the charge times.

Also for those that have said that 4.2 volts are the max for a lipo. These batteries are a new type/technology that allows up to 4.35volts which is why Bob is seeing the readings he is seeing.

So yes, normal LIPOs are max 4.2 volts but these particular batteries  are 4.35

I hope this helps a few users.
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dundee
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Bob Marley Posted at 2015-4-8 01:18
It's funny how you two come here to argue and not learn.

You two will be here everyday with someth ...

Hi Bob,

I already said that i totally agree with you.
I only dont believe "charge times will be reduced dramatically" as you said.
Reducing charge times with lets say 5 to 10% would not be dramatically, would it ?

I don't expect to see reduced charge time splicing 2 stock supplies together.
I more expect reduced heat.

You will have the risk running into issues if you alter the charger.
I said "if", because you said you won't.
Reading page 22 makes me suspicious.

I also noted on p22 and i quote "DJI does not take any responsibillty for damage caused by third-party chargers"

Ofcourse one could argue that the power supply is not part of the charger.

Also note that my 6pack was assembled way before Adam Savage published his idea on youTube.
My 6pack is still open for improvements but its already performing well.
The 6power supplies are dramatically cooler, after a full charge of all 6 batteries.
Must be the ventilator and the abundant air flow in the box doing its job.

2015-4-7
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RichJ53
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Bob Marley Posted at 2015-4-7 11:40
No Rich, you are correct, with no adjustable voltage, we will pass.
Look at the kick ass power sup ...


Hey Bob, I would certainly like too!   I used all my clams for the 1200 watt unit ($270 bucks). I bought some extra DJI standard power supplies while I was waiting on the Inspire 1 to show up. Now I know how wimpy these truly are... paper weights. Dundee had a good idea on one of my other threads with his 6 pack box (pretty cool). I really thought that charging three (3) TB47 / 48s  at one time should be enough for me with the option of charging the two (2) remotes.

I watched  your video above and it looks like this power supply would do the trick. I noticed that it is 24V base, but it must be self regulating. One thing I like about the 1200 watt Protek unit is, it has readout meter and the ability to adjust the voltage. It also shows the current in real time.

I am interested for sure, maybe you can start and I can catch up when I get back from my two week trip. So don't count me out yet.   
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Bob Marley
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mattd@internode Posted at 2015-4-8 09:39
From what I understand by this thread

The power supply "brick" that DJI supply is just a power supp ...


Hi Matt, it's simple stuff here, and you should read ALL the posts in this thread, (or at least just mine).

If there are 2 kid's swimming pools in the back yard and you filled the 1st one with a garden hose and I filled the 2nd with a fire hose, who's pool would fill faster? (please don't say they will fill at the same rate - lol)

Knowing that the charger on the lipo packs are asking for 180w, (page 60 in the manual) .......................
Tell us Matt, which will fill the pack faster, a 100w laptop power supply, or a 300w power supply?


Bob "this will never end" Marley
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Bob Marley
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GazFromBrum Posted at 2015-4-8 09:28
This thread has been interesting, enlightening and down right hilarious.

Bobs points, views and inf ...

Gaz, that was the best post of the entire thread, (well, almost).
You are right, some of this is truly laughable and while there were times I was very frustrated, I am truly smiling at the moment reading your post. You really hit the nail on the head.

Bob Marley
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Bob Marley
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dundee Posted at 2015-4-8 09:48
Hi Bob,

I already said that i totally agree with you.


I really don't have any idea why you are here on this thread Dundee.
Why don't you just sit back and see how it plays out, (or just leave the thread altogether).
Clearly you have no interest in building a charge box from my recommendations, so why waste my time offering your unasked for opinions/suggestions/mathmatics?
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Bob Marley
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RichJ53 Posted at 2015-4-8 10:45
Hey Bob, I would certainly like too!   I used all my clams for the 1200 watt unit ($270  ...

You got it brother !!!

Where are you going? Bringing the I1?
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Bob Marley
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MORE POWER SUPPLY RESEACH TOMORROW B4 I MAKE A "FINAL" DECISION -


(do you know what's funnier than chit, I posted a page or two back ....... "I made my maiden flight!" .....
not one flippin' comment, not one?)
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