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illegal footage!?!?
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859 40 2017-9-11 03:42:11
fans44fb5809
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Hey guys I've posted some footage before I thought youtube might end up taking down, I'm a little more worried about this one considering these shots are over a business. Is footage like this legal and what are the remifications of posting captured footage vs. them actually finding and taking the drone?
2017-9-11 03:42:11
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jksphoto
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I would say you are breaking Canadian Drone Law :-Canadian Drone Law

Fly your drone:
  • below 90 m above the ground
  • at least 30 m away from vehicles, vessels, and the public (if your drone weighs more than 250 g up to 1 kg)
  • at least 75 m away from vehicles, vessels, and the public (if your drone weighs more than 1 kg up to 35 kg)
  • at least 5.5 km away from aerodromes (any airport, seaplane base, or areas where aircraft take-off and land)
  • at least 1.8 km away from heliports or aerodromes used by helicopters only
  • outside of controlled or restricted airspace
  • at least 9 km away from a natural hazard or disaster area
  • away from areas where operation could interfere with police or first responders
  • during the day and not in clouds
  • within your sight at all times
  • within 500 m of yourself or closer
  • only if clearly marked with your name, address, and telephone number
Following the basic safety rules below will help keep people, aircraft and property safe. If you fly where you are not allowed or choose not to follow the rules below, you could face fines of up to $3,000.

Only took a quick google search to find this out.
2017-9-11 03:52:12
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Montfrooij
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Here in The Netherlands people got fined just by their youtube posts alone.
No real time arrest or anything.
But I don't know if that happened often.
2017-9-11 04:08:17
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Charles Adams
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At least in the United States, there are many different and unique aspects to our legal system, and I think that some of them apply to you.  In your case, the two aspects are the Laws and then the Enforcement.

Yes you have Canadian laws, and yes it looks like you were in violation of those laws.  Will someone come and arrest you or write you a ticket?  In essence, is there going to be someone who enforces those laws upon your actions?  I don't know.

In the United States I've only heard about "enforcement" occurring on one individual, and it wasn't even the FAA.  It was a ticket written by park rangers for someone who had "disturbed the wildlife", and it was a video upon which that ticket was written, and it was written after the fact (no park ranger was present at the time the infraction occurred).

Based on my studies of the Part 107 exam (which I've yet to take), there appears to be a desire by the FAA to avoid having every infraction reported to them.  There are specific circumstances upon which they would want to get more information... those being if injuries sustained are more than minor, if property damage exceeds a certain amount, or (in the event of air space violation) only if they seek more information from the pilot.

From this I've gathered that the FAA isn't actively seeking out every violator for every violation that occurs.  Rather they are spending their limited resources on the most egregious violations that come to their attention.

There is a completely separate level of enforcement to consider (at least in the United States), and that's "local" enforcement of local rules.  FAA would likely not get involved if I as a pilot violate my neighbor's airspace (if I trespass), but local authorities could/would, and it is much more likely that I would receive a visit from them if I were to foolishly behave in such a manner.  If the water park owners were irritated with the presence of your drone, I think it's much more likely that you would see some kind of action.

All of the above is what "could" happen.  Now we get to what "should" happen (which is a question that you didn't ask).  I personally will not fly in space for which I have no permission to fly and such permission is required (which includes businesses).  And even in public places (a local public park), I will not fly in a manner that risks people (in particular children) in the event of some unfortunate incident.  Most of the time my park is fairly open, but occasionally it is filled with children playing one sport or another.  In such circumstances, as much as I want to fly, I choose not to fly.

I don't judge other's flying choices, but I will say that every drone pilot is a representative of a community of flyers.  Every safe and conscientious pilot in total will never make up for a single irresponsible pilot that makes the news.  And it is so easy for lawmakers to craft regulations, and so much harder to undo those regulations.  So represent our community well when flying.
2017-9-11 04:18:01
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Sparky_17
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Hey, looks like you have broken TC - Canadian Drone Laws.  

at least 30 m away from vehicles, vessels, and the public (if your drone weighs more than 250 g up to 1 kg), plus I saw somewhere that you can't fly close or above any public area, concerts, arena .. etc.

I'd be very careful as to not force TC to make our rules more restricted as they are proposing.

On and other note, nice view of Calypso Water-Park but I'd remove the flashes / jidders from your video, if not take it down completely (don't get fined)
2017-9-11 05:27:39
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Montfrooij
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Charles Adams Posted at 2017-9-11 04:18
At least in the United States, there are many different and unique aspects to our legal system, and I think that some of them apply to you.  In your case, the two aspects are the Laws and then the Enforcement.

Yes you have Canadian laws, and yes it looks like you were in violation of those laws.  Will someone come and arrest you or write you a ticket?  In essence, is there going to be someone who enforces those laws upon your actions?  I don't know.

The case I know about got a lot of media attention because the video was so beautiful and popular (shot in Utrecht city) so I guess law enforcement thought the had to do something about it.
This is a (dutch) newsitem about the fact.

https://www.nu.nl/utrecht/397718 ... n-krijgt-boete.html
2017-9-11 05:33:42
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Rawsome
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This is calypso right? I would probably make this video vanish from the internet as it breaks several Canadian laws and you could potentially be fined a lot. Awesome footage though.
Just to give you an idea, I know of people that got fined for posting a picture on facebook for fish caught out of season and some one ranted them out. To avoid any trouble hit the delete button.
2017-9-11 05:55:25
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Arcicorsa
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How does the court prove that the one who uploaded the video to youtube also drones drove ?
2017-9-11 06:58:03
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Charles Adams
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Arcicorsa Posted at 2017-9-11 06:58
How does the court prove that the one who uploaded the video to youtube also drones drove  ?

I don't think it would be difficult, but it might be more "expensive" to pursue than it is worth for this instance (if it were me I would not be losing sleep).

If this particular flight included some property damage or injury (which it did not), then the "state" would probably spend the resources to tie the video to the author.  It would not be hard, it would just be time consuming.
2017-9-11 07:09:02
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Sparky_17
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Rawsome Posted at 2017-9-11 05:55
This is calypso right? I would probably make this video vanish from the internet as it breaks several Canadian laws and you could potentially be fined a lot. Awesome footage though.
Just to give you an idea, I know of people that got fined for posting a picture on facebook for fish caught out of season and some one ranted them out. To avoid any trouble hit the delete button.

I was thinking it was Calypso too.  I agree, this should be taken down so that TC doesn't make our regulations more restricted. and to avoid a law suit from the others of Calypso.
2017-9-11 07:17:32
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Rawsome
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Our drone rules went from harsh to pretty slack and hopefully they continue to stay this way. When we break and disobey these rules they will revert to "no fun". TC has given us a lot more freedom to fly lately but I can see them tighten that leash if we keep breaking their rules.
As stated before - yes it would be hard to prove that this was your drone but with flight records on DJI servers and your account it would be quiet easy to prove your drone flew over calypso. Just saying.
2017-9-11 08:13:03
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Sparky_17
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Rawsome Posted at 2017-9-11 08:13
Our drone rules went from harsh to pretty slack and hopefully they continue to stay this way. When we break and disobey these rules they will revert to "no fun". TC has given us a lot more freedom to fly lately but I can see them tighten that leash if we keep breaking their rules.
As stated before - yes it would be hard to prove that this was your drone but with flight records on DJI servers and your account it would be quiet easy to prove your drone flew over calypso. Just saying.

I completely agree with you.  Let's all stay within the current proposed regulations so that our leash don't get tightened and can't fly anywhere.
2017-9-11 08:20:35
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Charles Adams
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I've not been directly involved in some conversations, but I've heard second hand of individuals who fly drones and do not respect private property (residential property).  I could easily see intrusions on privacy leading to stricter flight regulations, even though there are already laws in place which make it illegal to fly uninvited on private property.

At least the video which inspired this thread, though on a private business, was recording public usage (family fun).  I hope all drone pilots respect privacy and private residential property (my soap box issue).
2017-9-11 08:37:10
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Sparky_17
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Charles Adams Posted at 2017-9-11 08:37
I've not been directly involved in some conversations, but I've heard second hand of individuals who fly drones and do not respect private property (residential property).  I could easily see intrusions on privacy leading to stricter flight regulations, even though there are already laws in place which make it illegal to fly uninvited on private property.

At least the video which inspired this thread, though on a private business, was recording public usage (family fun).  I hope all drone pilots respect privacy and private residential property (my soap box issue).

I agree with you which makes regulating drones a big issue for two reasons; as I'm sure there are many others.  

1- Privacy; this is a tricking issue on where privacy is impacted and where it isn't.  is privacy infringed if recording in a public area within regulations but are filming others enjoying the public area.  I understand recording your neighbour swimming in his pool without consent is infringing on ones privacy and that is against the law.  there is more that could be said here, but please use common sense when video taping and sharing on social media as you could be liable for privacy infringements.

2. trespassing: this is similar to the privacy issue, so when is trespassing .. trespassing.  Is this flying over ones property where permission wasn't granted even though you might be 300ft up.  or is trespassing, is when your physically on someone property and launching and landing your drone without permission (this one is definitely trespassing).  So the question is, at what height over some one's property is not considered trespassing?  again, this is a controversial topic that even countries have a hard time regulating or setting regulations.

Please to take the above in the wrong context.  I'm just saying that privacy and trespassing can be perceived differently by different people.  In the end, using common sense is always a must.

Fly safe and follow the regulations and restrictions.
2017-9-11 09:24:20
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Charles Adams
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Sparky_17 Posted at 2017-9-11 09:24
I agree with you which makes regulating drones a big issue for two reasons; as I'm sure there are many others.  

1- Privacy; this is a tricking issue on where privacy is impacted and where it isn't.  is privacy infringed if recording in a public area within regulations but are filming others enjoying the public area.  I understand recording your neighbour swimming in his pool without consent is infringing on ones privacy and that is against the law.  there is more that could be said here, but please use common sense when video taping and sharing on social media as you could be liable for privacy infringements.

I won't go into the privacy issues of filming and photography, that's already had years of being hashed out by photographers in parks and such.

But I will claim to have an "unprofessional" (but I believe) accurate definition as to the definition of trespassing in the United States.  Take my comments with a grain of salt, but here goes:

It's pretty clear cut.  There is no ambiguity in what is trespassing with a Drone in the United States.  What has been established in law and in court precedents is that an owner of property has domain of his/her airspace up to 400 feet.  Federal regulations still apply to that airspace, but that airspace is his/hers.  Any intrusion of that airspace (except where authorized by FAA regulations or granted permission by the property owner) is trespassing.

500 feet and above is entirely in the domain of the FAA.  Private property owners have no claims or rights to their airspace 500 feet and above except where they work with FAA.  Planes are free to fly above that altitude above ground level (most are probably flying at 35K feet or so).

As a drone pilot, if you do not seek permission to fly in someone's private airspace, you are in violation of either one of two regulations.  Either you are flying below 400 feet, in which case you are trespassing, or you are flying above 400 feet, in which case you are in violation of FAA UAS regulations (which apply to registered drone users and unregistered hobbyists).  If you fly into your neighbor's space without permission, you are violating SOMETHING.

What I've recommended to other drone enthusiasts (who have asked for my knowledge and opinion) is to fly only where you can legally retrieve your drone should it fall straight to the earth.
2017-9-11 09:42:36
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Lian82
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Sell this video to the water park 500-600$ ;)
problem solved


;)
2017-9-11 10:46:59
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HomePoint
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Haven't read all comments, but needed to reply.

Rules are there because:
There are hundreds of people below you.  Imagine if all of them wanted to fly their drone and capture their holiday.  The place would be a battlefield in the air and carnage below.
Simple as that really, its not really all about one drone, its about everyone wanting to do it to capture the moment.
2017-9-11 10:58:01
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chraaaa
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So in terms of private property and trespassing when permission is not granted, I'm hearing that I can have the Verizon FiOS sales guy who bangs on my door every 2 months arrested.  And trick or treaters... oh boy going to need a paddy wagon.
2017-9-11 11:00:50
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Lian82
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in italy I can film anyone, but I can not share the video on Social ... but if I invite all Italy to my house I can do it: D


what idiots ... we are
2017-9-11 11:09:30
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Sparky_17
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Charles Adams Posted at 2017-9-11 09:42
I won't go into the privacy issues of filming and photography, that's already had years of being hashed out by photographers in parks and such.

But I will claim to have an "unprofessional" (but I believe) accurate definition as to the definition of trespassing in the United States.  Take my comments with a grain of salt, but here goes:

Thanks for this information.  Clear and simple to understand.  The comment that got me 'is to fly only where you can legally retrieve your drone should it fall straight to the earth'  WELL SAID.  Thanks
2017-9-11 11:11:29
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Charles Adams
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chraaaa Posted at 2017-9-11 11:00
So in terms of private property and trespassing when permission is not granted, I'm hearing that I can have the Verizon FiOS sales guy who bangs on my door every 2 months arrested.  And trick or treaters... oh boy going to need a paddy wagon.

That's a matter of law for which I have very limited familiarity, and have absolutely zero qualifications to discuss.  I think that courts and laws have given "no trespassing" signs the weight of law.  I think that courts have given "no solicitation" signs similar weight, but that "no solicitation" signs do not govern the actions of evangelists and others who proselytize their religion or faith.

My understanding of drone regulations and private property is only my own understanding, obtained by studying opinions and analysis of those I have chosen to respect.  I have chosen to live my life in a manner where I respect people's opinions even if they differ from mine.  If you decide to fly with a different interpretation, more power to you.  In fact I hope to learn from your interpretations, and appreciate the fact that others will undoubtedly come to different conclusions than mine.

2017-9-11 11:32:00
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Montfrooij
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HomePoint Posted at 2017-9-11 10:58
Haven't read all comments, but needed to reply.

Rules are there because:

That is true indeed!
2017-9-11 11:34:40
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Montfrooij
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Charles Adams Posted at 2017-9-11 09:42
I won't go into the privacy issues of filming and photography, that's already had years of being hashed out by photographers in parks and such.

But I will claim to have an "unprofessional" (but I believe) accurate definition as to the definition of trespassing in the United States.  Take my comments with a grain of salt, but here goes:

That last one made good sense!
2017-9-11 11:40:14
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Montfrooij
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Arcicorsa Posted at 2017-9-11 06:58
How does the court prove that the one who uploaded the video to youtube also drones drove  ?

I don't know how they did prove that. But at least they found a way.
2017-9-11 11:41:30
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Charles Adams
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Sparky_17 Posted at 2017-9-11 11:11
Thanks for this information.  Clear and simple to understand.  The comment that got me 'is to fly only where you can legally retrieve your drone should it fall straight to the earth'  WELL SAID.  Thanks

That "straight to the earth" is entirely a personal guideline.  Others may choose to fly differently.  But I will say this:  My chosen practice is the safest approach I can think of to keep me out of trouble.  I've personally restricted my flying options to a high degree that others may deem to be too excessive.  And that's ok.
2017-9-11 11:42:57
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Sparky_17
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Charles Adams Posted at 2017-9-11 11:42
That "straight to the earth" is entirely a personal guideline.  Others may choose to fly differently.  But I will say this:  My chosen practice is the safest approach I can think of to keep me out of trouble.  I've personally restricted my flying options to a high degree that others may deem to be too excessive.  And that's ok.

Wish everyone had the same common sense as you and I do.  
2017-9-11 11:54:57
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Schmo
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Is it me, or did the video change?
2017-9-11 12:01:37
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Charles Adams
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Schmo Posted at 2017-9-11 12:01
Is it me, or did the video change?

The video did in fact change.  Interesting!
2017-9-11 12:05:21
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OneMatt
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Literally every video you make, and post, has the word "illegal" in the title. Also, the suggestion YouTube will take down your "illegal" vid. They won't, they aren't law enforcement. But they will gladly provide your details to those who do enforce this.

Stop with the clickbait titles. Just post the vid.
2017-9-11 12:12:08
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PY4CK
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Beautiful images... Should we be prevented from seeing and experiencing them? Great video. I would post it without a problem.
2017-9-11 13:14:38
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Charles Adams
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PY4CK Posted at 2017-9-11 13:14
Beautiful images... Should we be prevented from seeing and experiencing them? Great video. I would post it without a problem.

I believe the video to which you refer is different from the video that was originally presented at the start of this thread.  The current video is certainly beautiful, and doesn't have any visible/notable legal concerns.

The original video was of a water park, with various rides and attractions and young people.  This seems to have been replaced now, so the thread has lost context.
2017-9-11 13:24:17
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Montfrooij
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Charles Adams Posted at 2017-9-11 12:05
The video did in fact change.  Interesting!

True.  It used to be some amusement park.
2017-9-11 14:08:34
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Rawsome
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At least op removed the video in question. As for future reference - please familiarize your self with the current regulations and fly with in your legal rights. In your case there are a ton of places you can use your skills (as the video has shown you have both, flying and editing) Montreal and Ottawa both have beautiful, iconic sites that can be legally explored and shot. Good luck and hope to see more from of your work.
2017-9-11 14:56:03
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Sparky_17
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This isn’t the video we all commented on. Someone was worried about a lawsuit
2017-9-11 15:55:30
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Kairos Charlie
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Illegal or not, nice video
2017-9-12 14:59:38
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Charles Adams
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Kairos Charlie Posted at 2017-9-12 14:59
Illegal or not, nice video

It's now a different video than what was present when this thread was created.  It originally was a water park, with lots of happy participants on the various water attractions.

The video changed after we gave our advice and the possible (maybe remote) risks of the video being used to charge the pilot with violations.

The current video is lovely, and I see nothing in it which would indicate any violations.
2017-9-12 15:24:45
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Charles Adams
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Given that the video has changed mid-conversation, the context of this thread is lost.
2017-9-12 15:26:15
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PY4CK
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Charles Adams Posted at 2017-9-11 13:24
I believe the video to which you refer is different from the video that was originally presented at the start of this thread.  The current video is certainly beautiful, and doesn't have any visible/notable legal concerns.

The original video was of a water park, with various rides and attractions and young people.  This seems to have been replaced now, so the thread has lost context.

Ok. thanks for the update. Indeed the one I saw (the currently available here) does not present to me any illegal aspects.

Have you all guys a lot of fun with responsible use of your machines !
2017-9-13 09:34:06
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Sparky_17
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PY4CK Posted at 2017-9-13 09:34
Ok. thanks for the update. Indeed the one I saw (the currently available here) does not present to me any illegal aspects.

Have you all guys a lot of fun with responsible use of your machines !

Responsible use of our drones will keep our restrictions within reasonable guidelines.  I don't want to be restricted more than our current restrictions.  Let's all be responsible adults and fly responsibly.
2017-9-13 09:47:54
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Luca Rubino
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Lian82 Posted at 2017-9-11 11:09
in italy I can film anyone, but I can not share the video on Social ... but if I invite all Italy to my house I can do it: D

It's wrong! In italy you can film anyone, but you CANNOT show your records to anybody without permission!!!
E sono italiano e conosco le leggi qua...
2017-9-14 01:14:48
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