Can airport radars detect a drone flying anywhere (even far away ) or the bird is too small to show up on their screen ?
If so can it detect the drone's altitude because i know many of us are flying well above FAA's limits !?

Normally, no they wont detect a drone because it looks too much like a bird.

However many airport radars are capable of detecting a drone and may do so if the controllers are looking out for eg parachutists, microlights, gliders etc.  Then they can spot drones because although they look like birds, they don't behave like birds.

I don't think airport radar is likely to be used to chase illegal drone users, if they actually want to target drone users then they would use something more specialised that would let them track down the operator.  Drones give out radio signals that can be used to triangulate their position in 3D, same goes for the controller.  If they can decode the drone data then it will contain the GPS position which will also give away the height.

Most civilian ATC-related radar is now secondary radar only over here.  (I don't know about the UK... they seem big on gliders over there for whatever strange reason.)  The controller isn't going to see a darned thing unless the target has a functioning transponder.  Even if it's as large as the Goodyear Blimp and coated with tinfoil.  This is what they call "progress" I guess.  Whether this is wise is another matter.  (Just wait for the day when we all are forced to pay for mode C transponders with our drones!)

I'm no expert on primary radar, but hypothetically speaking if it was still being actively used in the ATC world, I would guess that DJI drones are _far_ too small and not reflective enough.  ATCOs do not want to see junk and there is filtering software between the input and the display.  I've heard of flocks of birds showing up but I don't know if they were talking about WX radar or primary radar.

Even IF it showed up as a primary target on an ATCO's scope, the target would not have an altitude displayed.  You need mode C for that.  A plain-jane transponder isn't even enough for that.  The ATCO would need to have a passing pilot report the altitude of the intruder.

As some have indicated, in a nutshell no

The main reason, there are two 1) burn through in close and a small target like that will be lost in the noise and at a distance it may or may not be picked up, if so, it will likely be intermittent.  When airliners lose their IFF ATC has a hard time picking them out depending on their altitude and distance from the radar.  2) Human nature, controllers are trained to focus on and look for aircraft not birds, sure they know what birds can look like and if they are not busy and bored they can tune the scope to pick out targets like that.  However, it is not standard practice and not something they do on a regular bases.

  Now all of that said, if you think you are living in the shadows and they will never notice little ole me.  Well you are likely to be wrong, and more so than you may realize.  Unless there is a problem with a facility’s recording capabilities, all raw radar return data is recorded and kept for quite some time.  Given the right software, and they have it, along with the right experts and time, as well as radar data from other nearby radars, and they can make an accurate determination of where your drone was and at what height and time.  Yes, big brother is watching even the skies.

Bottom line, you are taking a risk if you are not following procedure.  If something happens they may have the ability to find you and or determine what happened with or without your statement, it depends.

  Not to show how anything can be done, but a recent news story today, where a Blackhawk was “hit” by a drone in NY is a good example.  According to the story the helo was just above 400’ over water or a shoreline, I can tell you from experience that may not be accurate.  First, aircraft do deviate on their altitude by as much as 20 to 50 feet depending on pilot skill and attention.  Next, a simple altimeter setting being off on the Blackhawk could have it flying lower than 400’, however, some more advanced variants (i.e. spec ops) do have radar altimeters and if set for 400 then the crew would get a warning.  My point is this, at that low of an altitude and unless the radar site is close by with LOS, it is not likely they got a picture of the aircraft, helo or drone.  Now the higher either goes the more likely they will be painted, if, if, if.  In other words staying low and away from radar is your best bet and safest one.  In this example, it may have been pilot error but whose, if the Army crew was too low, then it may be there’s.  I doubt they’ll ever know unless they find some witnesses or the drone operator comes forward.  …and yes, drones are to give way to manned aircraft, however, if an HH60 is swooping through at 100kts or more and really low you may not be able to move out of the way fast enough.

EDIT: It is fair to note that the drone altitude may say 400 feet but in reality it could actually be at 450 feet or so.  This can be due to inherent errors in the system or pressure changes or a combination.  Which means, in the Blackhawk example, the helo was right and the drone was at fault.

Irate Retro Posted at 2017-9-23 09:54
Most civilian ATC-related radar is now secondary radar only over here.  (I don't know about the UK... they seem big on gliders over there for whatever strange reason.)  The controller isn't going to see a darned thing unless the target has a functioning transponder.  Even if it's as large as the Goodyear Blimp and coated with tinfoil.  This is what they call "progress" I guess.  Whether this is wise is another matter.  (Just wait for the day when we all are forced to pay for mode C transponders with our drones!)

I'm no expert on primary radar, but hypothetically speaking if it was still being actively used in the ATC world, I would guess that DJI drones are _far_ too small and not reflective enough.  ATCOs do not want to see junk and there is filtering software between the input and the display.  I've heard of flocks of birds showing up but I don't know if they were talking about WX radar or primary radar.

I think I would be right in saying that the majority of UK aircraft do not have transponders, we certainly don't rely on them for most of our airspace and so for most small aircraft they are not considered necessary.  Commercial aircraft do have them.

Genghis9 Posted at 2017-9-23 11:01
As some have indicated, in a nutshell noThe main reason, there are two 1) burn through in close and a small target like that will be lost in the noise and at a distance it may or may not be picked up, if so, it will likely be intermittent.  When airliners lose their IFF ATC has a hard time picking them out depending on their altitude and distance from the radar.  2) Human nature, controllers are trained to focus on and look for aircraft not birds, sure they know what birds can look like and if they are not busy and bored they can tune the scope to pick out targets like that.  However, it is not standard practice and not something they do on a regular bases.  Now all of that said, if you think you are living in the shadows and they will never notice little ole me.  Well you are likely to be wrong, and more so than you may realize.  Unless there is a problem with a facility’s recording capabilities, all raw radar return data is recorded and kept for quite some time.  Given the right software, and they have it, along with the right experts and time, as well as radar data from other nearby radars, and they can make an accurate determination of where your drone was and at what height and time.  Yes, big brother is watching even the skies.Bottom line, you are taking a risk if you are not following procedure.  If something happens they may have the ability to find you and or determine what happened with or without your statement, it depends.  Not to show how anything can be done, but a recent news story today, where a Blackhawk was “hit” by a drone in NY is a good example.  According to the story the helo was just above 400’ over water or a shoreline, I can tell you from experience that may not be accurate.  First, aircraft do deviate on their altitude by as much as 20 to 50 feet depending on pilot skill and attention.  Next, a simple altimeter setting being off on the Blackhawk could have it flying lower than 400’, however, some more advanced variants (i.e. spec ops) do have radar altimeters and if set for 400 then the crew would get a warning.  My point is this, at that low of an altitude and unless the radar site is close by with LOS, it is not likely they got a picture of the aircraft, helo or drone.  Now the higher either goes the more likely they will be painted, if, if, if.  In other words staying low and away from radar is your best bet and safest one.  In this example, it may have been pilot error but whose, if the Army crew was too low, then it may be there’s.  I doubt they’ll ever know unless they find some witnesses or the drone operator comes forward.  …and yes, drones are to give way to manned aircraft, however, if an HH60 is swooping through at 100kts or more and really low you may not be able to move out of the way fast enough.
EDIT: It is fair to note that the drone altitude may say 400 feet but in reality it could actually be at 450 feet or so.  This can be due to inherent errors in the system or pressure changes or a combination.  Which means, in the Blackhawk example, the helo was right and the drone was at fault.

Yes, if a near miss or a collision is reported then the radar records will be analysed and then there is a definite possibility of your drone being tracked.  I doubt they would get an accurate height, but then they would probably take the report as a guide and that of course would put you well above 400ft.

Nigel_ Posted at 2017-9-23 11:19
Yes, if a near miss or a collision is reported then the radar records will be analysed and then there is a definite possibility of your drone being tracked.  I doubt they would get an accurate height, but then they would probably take the report as a guide and that of course would put you well above 400ft.

Agreed
If the site does not have Height Finder capability they can still get a fair depiction that can help make an estimation.  Especially if there was an incursion involving a manned aircraft using mode C, they could correlate altitude that way.

Aloha coco,

     Yes, birds are carbon based and drones are based on many different metals.  Drones show up on radar because most metals show up on radar.  Here in Hawai'i, the military airports, which are part of the civilian airports much of the time not only have the ability to detect a Phantom 3 Pro at 5 miles but have active countermeasures that can shut you down with increasing intensity if you do not leave the NFZ.

     Hope this helps!

Aloha and Drone On!