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Indoor ATTI mode drift
5118 33 2017-10-18
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LouisP
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I have just been doing a little indoor flying (no gps)  and I have an observation.

Sometimes the spark will start to drift in a given direction and no amount of counter stick control will make it stop.

I have had it happen in left / right and forward / back directions.  It was drifting to the right toward a wall and I had full left stick and it had no effect at all.
Not wanting to hit the wall, I tried rotating the drone to the right (to face the wall) thinking.. Ok it is drifting to the right, turn it so "right" is not toward the wall.
Well, just after starting to rotate, I suddenly got control back of the direction.

Later... again.. up a little too high for a safe crash,  it started to drift forward and no amount of back stick would stop it... input a little rotation with the other stick and control is returned.

Spark is not much fun indoors with obstacle avoid turned on.. it won't get close to anything, and the maximum hight indoors is not enough to assend stairs to the second floor.

Just thought I would pass along what I found.... Outdoors in an ATTI mode situation, if spark seems to not be taking commands from the sticks.. try rotating the drone..
Might save someone from a fly away some day.


2017-10-18
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DJI Elektra
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LouisP, there is no GPS signal in ATTI mode. I would recommend you fly with propeller guard. Thanks for sharing your experience of avoiding crash.
2017-10-18
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ASEPK
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I hope spark can fly in this arena...
http://www.dji.com/newsroom/news ... rone-arena-in-japan
2017-10-18
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Gunship9
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Elderly drivers have stomped hard on the "brake" only to find the car suddenly accelerating.  Numb thumbs are an issue with radio control models,...sometimes.

Not a comment on your drift.  Just saying ;)
2017-10-18
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forbsie
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I haven't had any such issues flying indoors. The drone wobbles a little due to backwash from walls/furniture etc., but otherwise holds position very well. Sounds to me like you are intermittently losing connection to the controller.
2017-10-18
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LouisP
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forbsie Posted at 2017-10-18 21:45
I haven't had any such issues flying indoors. The drone wobbles a little due to backwash from walls/furniture etc., but otherwise holds position very well. Sounds to me like you are intermittently losing connection to the controller.

I don't think so.. I still had control but not enough stick authority to counteract the drift.  The first time it happened (a few weeks ago) it flew straight into a wall while the obstacle avoidance alarm was beeping and I had full stick back.

Last night, it was drifting to the right while I had full left stick when it hit a chair.
I am flying in a sound stage that has a painted concrete floor, so not anything at all for the vision system to lock onto.

I will try flying inside again soon and if it happens I will pull the log files and see what they say.
2017-10-19
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LouisP
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Gunship9 Posted at 2017-10-18 20:00
Elderly drivers have stomped hard on the "brake" only to find the car suddenly accelerating.  Numb thumbs are an issue with radio control models,...sometimes.

Not a comment on your drift.  Just saying ;)

I can assure you that wasn't the problem.. this was not a high speed manuver.. it was drifting SLOWLY to the right  (which I understand indoors without a good pattern below for the vision system to lock onto)  and I had full left stick commanded.. Had I actually been pushing it to the right while thinking I was pushing left it would have been moving MUCH faster.
2017-10-19
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hallmark007
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LouisP Posted at 2017-10-19 11:45
I don't think so.. I still had control but not enough stick authority to counteract the drift.  The first time it happened (a few weeks ago) it flew straight into a wall while the obstacle avoidance alarm was beeping and I had full stick back.

Last night, it was drifting to the right while I had full left stick when it hit a chair.

To fly indoors you need to be in opti mode, you need very good lighting perfectly textured floor covering it’s the vision sensors that will keep your craft steady.

You also need plenty of room flying around a small house with obstacles everywhere and interference all over the place, I don’t think these aircraft are designed to fly in tight spaces, inside large buildings churches etc that’s fine, but I can’t see why people would want to fly these AC in small spaces indoors.

But each to his own.
2017-10-19
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heliman
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If it starts drifting, there is too little light or no floor texture, I guess.
I have flown mine in the bathroom. (OA off, no prop guards).
It did not drift.
2017-10-19
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LouisP
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heliman Posted at 2017-10-19 12:29
If it starts drifting, there is too little light or no floor texture, I guess.
I have flown mine in the bathroom. (OA off, no prop guards).
It did not drift.

I knew the floor had no texture. I fully expect it to drift.  That is the fun to learn to constantly correct for it.  The problem is that on more than one occasion, i could not correct for the drift using the RC.  I found that when that happens I can regain control by rotating the drone. That was my point.
2017-10-19
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heliman
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Oops, I missed that we are taling about atti mode. Sorry.
And I understand that OA was off and not interfering with manual control.
2017-10-19
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ACW
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Without a strong GPS connection the Spark will enter ATTI mode automatically and this is what causes the drone to drift. Flying indoors does require added skill as the drone does not use GPS but instead will revert to OPTI mode, effectively using the vision positioning system to maintain steady hovering. If VPS disengages during flight it will once more revert to ATTI - that is clearly the issue you had. The most common reasons for VPS to disengage are highly reflective surfaces, too bright or too dark lighting conditions within the room and issues with both the pattern and texture of the surface the drone is flying over - deep carpet, for example, will absorb the sensors signal to prevent accurate VPS control. If you have also turned off OA then the drone will be blind to it's environment too - so no GPS, no VPS and OA off drifting in ATTI mode indoors = crash. Unless you are very adept in flying manual RC (or simply lucky) the drone will hit a wall - the only thing you can do in that situation is to put on the prop guards before turning on the drone and hope that minimises the damage on impact - literally bouncing off the wall. If you do fly indoors I would advise ALWAYS putting on the prop guards, use Tripod mode, keep the OA engaged and watch the VPS/flight mode at all times and be prepared to react in a split second. And of course, do not fly into another room and lose sight of the drone or this may cause RTH to initialise = drone flying up into the ceiling! Flying indoors is great fun but also carries some of the greatest risks to potential crashes, especially for new pilots. As for outdoor flight - it is a shame the Spark (and Mavic) were not designed with ATTI mode switches to enable pilots to practice in that mode (unlike the Phantoms). It's a totally different flight experience and most 'noobs' won't know how to control the drone in ATTI. I hope we see ATTI switches on the 2nd gens of both drones.
2017-10-19
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LouisP
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heliman Posted at 2017-10-19 12:50
Oops, I missed that we are taling about atti mode. Sorry.
And I understand that OA was off and not interfering with manual control.

Actually, I think you have hit on the cause of my problem..  I did not turn off obstacle avoidance...
Spark was looking forward at a table too close in front of it and at the same time it was drifting to the right toward a wall... OA would likely only allow me to fly backward away from the table at that point so that is why I could not move to the left.   Turning the drone removed the obstacle from the front and allowed me to move away from the table and the wall.   

Flying indoors with OA on causes a lot of alarms (unless you are in a very big room).. I was in a sound stage that is probably 50 feet square.. but there were obstacles in the room (talbles and chairs)  .. I was having fun flying in and around the obstacles.. but I was having control issues.
Now we know OA was keeping me from controling the drone .. and my floor was smooth so the vision system could not correct for drift..  drift starts toward an obstacle and OA limits control.

I am glad that I posted this on the forum.. new we have worked out what was happening.

2017-10-19
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LouisP
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ACW Posted at 2017-10-19 12:53
Without a strong GPS connection the Spark will enter ATTI mode automatically and this is what causes the drone to drift. Flying indoors does require added skill as the drone does not use GPS but instead will revert to OPTI mode, effectively using the vision positioning system to maintain steady hovering. If VPS disengages during flight it will once more revert to ATTI - that is clearly the issue you had. The most common reasons for VPS to disengage are highly reflective surfaces, too bright or too dark lighting conditions within the room and issues with both the pattern and texture of the surface the drone is flying over - deep carpet, for example, will absorb the sensors signal to prevent accurate VPS control. If you have also turned off OA then the drone will be blind to it's environment too - so no GPS, no VPS and OA off drifting in ATTI mode indoors = crash. Unless you are very adept in flying manual RC (or simply lucky) the drone will hit a wall - the only thing you can do in that situation is to put on the prop guards before turning on the drone and hope that minimises the damage on impact - literally bouncing off the wall. If you do fly indoors I would advise ALWAYS putting on the prop guards, use Tripod mode, keep the OA engaged and watch the VPS/flight mode at all times and be prepared to react in a split second. And of course, do not fly into another room and lose sight of the drone or this may cause RTH to initialise = drone flying up into the ceiling! Flying indoors is great fun but also carries some of the greatest risks to potential crashes, especially for new pilots. As for outdoor flight - it is a shame the Spark (and Mavic) were not designed with ATTI mode switches to enable pilots to practice in that mode (unlike the Phantoms). It's a totally different flight experience and most 'noobs' won't know how to control the drone in ATTI. I hope we see ATTI switches on the 2nd gens of both drones.

" If you have also turned off OA then the drone will be blind to it's environment too - so no GPS, no VPS and OA off drifting in ATTI mode indoors = crash."

See my last post.. I think we figured out that OA and no VPS were what caused my issue.

That said... flying indoors with ATTI mode, no VPS and no GPS is good fun and also a good way to learn better piloting skills....
Just dont' go crazy, stay low to minimize damage from falls, and use prop guards.
2017-10-19
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hallmark007
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LouisP Posted at 2017-10-19 13:27
" If you have also turned off OA then the drone will be blind to it's environment too - so no GPS, no VPS and OA off drifting in ATTI mode indoors = crash."

See my last post.. I think we figured out that OA and no VPS were what caused my issue.

One thing you need to do is have proper setting for RTH , if you don’t and RTH kicks in you will just hit the ceiling.
2017-10-19
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LouisP
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hallmark007 Posted at 2017-10-19 13:41
One thing you need to do is have proper setting for RTH , if you don’t and RTH kicks in you will just hit the ceiling.

Good point, but if you are indoors in ATTI mode with no GPS I don't see how RTH could kick in. Also, No GPS altitude is limited to about 18 feet.
2017-10-19
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hallmark007
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LouisP Posted at 2017-10-19 16:40
Good point, but if you are indoors in ATTI mode with no GPS I don't see how RTH could kick in. Also, No GPS altitude is limited to about 18 feet.

Gps and Atti are auto in the spark so if it suddenly gets gps then you will have a problem with RTH .
2017-10-19
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FatherXmas
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DJI Elektra Posted at 2017-10-18 19:05
LouisP, there is no GPS signal in ATTI mode. I would recommend you fly with propeller guard. Thanks for sharing your experience of avoiding crash.

I agree, only fly indoors with prop guards. On a totally different note, the lamp shade in the living room needed to be replaced anyway.
2017-10-19
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Gunship9
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LouisP Posted at 2017-10-19 13:27
" If you have also turned off OA then the drone will be blind to it's environment too - so no GPS, no VPS and OA off drifting in ATTI mode indoors = crash."

See my last post.. I think we figured out that OA and no VPS were what caused my issue.

Good deal you figured out the issue.  Outside, I have turned off OA and it still alarmed at me but let me get close to the camera.  The alarm was annoying and messing up my sound recording.

I have my old and cheap Eflite Blade CX2 for indoor flying.  They make an even cheaper miniature version.  The parts are cheaper than Spark parts.  You might look into getting one, or whatever tiny helicopter they make now-a-days, for indoor flying fun.
2017-10-19
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ACW
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LouisP Posted at 2017-10-19 13:27
" If you have also turned off OA then the drone will be blind to it's environment too - so no GPS, no VPS and OA off drifting in ATTI mode indoors = crash."

See my last post.. I think we figured out that OA and no VPS were what caused my issue.

I don't think anybody should learn to fly indoors to better their piloting skills for all of the reasons I listed - the drone is far more prone to crash and crashing the quad will turn new pilots off the hobby not to mention the damage caused to their new drone. Learning in ATTI mode is a wide open space is far more effective and poses less risk hence why I said I would like both the Spark and Mavic to have ATTI switches. BTW - RTH supersedes any flight mode and the minimum altitude is 20m. If failsafe RTH is activated your drone will fly into the ceiling... Unlike the Mavic and Phantoms where you can set the drone to hover or land in failsafe activation, the only option for the Spark is to return...  
2017-10-19
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ACW Posted at 2017-10-19 22:53
I don't think anybody should learn to fly indoors to better their piloting skills for all of the reasons I listed - the drone is far more prone to crash and crashing the quad will turn new pilots off the hobby not to mention the damage caused to their new drone. Learning in ATTI mode is a wide open space is far more effective and poses less risk hence why I said I would like both the Spark and Mavic to have ATTI switches. BTW - RTH supersedes any flight mode and the minimum altitude is 20m. If failsafe RTH is activated your drone will fly into the ceiling... Unlike the Mavic and Phantoms where you can set the drone to hover or land in failsafe activation, the only option for the Spark is to return...

You got a point. It will be safer to fly in good GPS signal as the drone can hover precisely.  But if users can control their drone well and install propeller guards and it is possible to fly indoor without crash.
2017-10-20
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Arnor
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I flew mine in an indoor horse arena ( 30x50m ). It preformed perfectly, no drift or weird behaviour even with the steel roof support.

I even used it to film young horses :-)
2017-10-20
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ACW
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I often fly indoors with no problem but I’ve been flying drones for years - my point is that it’s not a good idea to learn to fly indoors
2017-10-20
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Arnor Posted at 2017-10-20 01:12
I flew mine in an indoor horse arena ( 30x50m ). It preformed perfectly, no drift or weird behaviour even with the steel roof support.

I even used it to film young horses :-)

Great! You did an excellent job. You can share the video in the forum.
2017-10-20
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doZer the ogre
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LouisP Posted at 2017-10-19 13:24
Actually, I think you have hit on the cause of my problem..  I did not turn off obstacle avoidance...
Spark was looking forward at a table too close in front of it and at the same time it was drifting to the right toward a wall... OA would likely only allow me to fly backward away from the table at that point so that is why I could not move to the left.   Turning the drone removed the obstacle from the front and allowed me to move away from the table and the wall.   

+1 i love learning new things! thank you
2017-10-20
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Viking-Pilot
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ASEPK Posted at 2017-10-18 19:41
I hope spark can fly in this arena...
http://www.dji.com/newsroom/news/dji-opens-its-first-drone-arena-in-japan

This is awesome, I hope we can get one of those in Spain too
2017-10-20
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Viking-Pilot
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ACW Posted at 2017-10-20 01:24
I often fly indoors with no problem but I’ve been flying drones for years - my point is that it’s not a good idea to learn to fly indoors

I learned to fly with a micro quad, nothing like the spark, but that gave me the proper insight in flying with no GPS so I had to control every single movement the drone did caused by the air stream flow from the propellers. That was very fun and enriched experience even thought i had a lot of crashes to start with, but with time and dedication i ended up mastering the flight inside my apartment, and then I wanted more...and that was what made the Spark to step in...so I consider myself a quite good pilot still learning and practicing to improve my skills...I have tried the Spark only once inside just to see how it perfommed and that was enough for me as the space is very limited, but i was very satisfied with the outcome tho.
I agree, the Spark is no good to learn to fly in small places, better get a toy drone a mini one is perfect.
2017-10-20
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ACW
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My first drone cost £70 and I lost it in a tree after 5 days LOL - then took the plunge on a P3P and never lost a prop - developed my skills flying in ATTI mode with it which has proved so beneficial - I even fly my P4P inside now but the Spark is great for indoor flight due to it’s compact size - though the thought of someone who has never flown anything before taking it out of the box and taking off in their living room to learn the basics of flight is not a good idea - putting it politely!
2017-10-20
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Arnor
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DJI Elektra Posted at 2017-10-20 01:59
Great! You did an excellent job. You can share the video in the forum.

https://www.skypixel.com/photos/ ... ;utm_campaign=share

One pict...I took today as the weather was horrible and I leave tomorrow by plane so he'd to drain my batteries. :-)
2017-10-22
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Arnor Posted at 2017-10-22 06:10
https://www.skypixel.com/photos/spark-selfy?utm_source=url&utm_medium=copied&utm_campaign=share

One pict...I took today as the weather was horrible and I leave tomorrow by plane so he'd to drain my batteries. :-)

Arnor, glad you did that. It seems that the place is wide and bright.
2017-10-23
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rrtc
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I was flying indoors (very slowly, w propguards) a lot, could fly around furniture, from one room to another, close to objects, I could handle the AC very precisely, no problems ever. If I was flying any direction, releasing the stick (RC) stopped the AC. Sometimes of course the turbulence generated moved the AC a little, but no issues, I still could navigate very small places. but today I had the same issue as LouisP. took off, the AC started to drift. I could correct but I could not get the AC stop and hover. Once it stared to drift left, and no matter I pulled the stick right for 2-3 secs, nothing happened, then suddenly it started to fly right very fast and crashed, braking a prop (even with guards on). Something changed. I stop trying, I don't want to break anything,   
2017-11-6
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fans6b922ebe
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LouisP Posted at 2017-10-19 11:45
I don't think so.. I still had control but not enough stick authority to counteract the drift.  The first time it happened (a few weeks ago) it flew straight into a wall while the obstacle avoidance alarm was beeping and I had full stick back.

Last night, it was drifting to the right while I had full left stick when it hit a chair.

Hi, my spArk did he same thing. I turned on the overhead light and then  it instantly hovered perfect.
2019-1-17
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Daniella3d
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Mine did the same once and drifted fast into my Livingroom couch. I turned on additional light and it never did that again. It really need good light to fly indoor and I always put the propeller guard just in case.
2019-1-17
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LouisP
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When I first got my spark, I tried flying it in a large sound stage.. .  dim lighting, painted grey floor and no furniture..   it was very had to control... never tried that again.
2019-1-17
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