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Why no kill switch?
2534 18 2017-10-21
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heliman
First Officer
Denmark
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In my world, the ability to immediately kill the motors is the most important security feature of all.
But the spark does not have a kill switch. Why?

A combination stick gesture (CSC) is documented, but it does not work.
Timing can be essential. There must be no delay.

Where I fly, there also are small airplanes, and if the spark goes berzerk, I need a way to be able kill
it before it can hit airplane or road traffic.


It can also be useful to get the spark stopped in time if it has decided to go to sea.

2017-10-21
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Pez942
Second Officer
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United Kingdom
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I understand the logic of what you are saying and as you have said there is a kill switch stick commend built in which as you have also said doesn’t appear to work on tests I’ve seen. So it appears that it is something that DJI have implemented....just not very well.

I think if your spark goes berserk I would expect that you have no control or communication with it from your phone or RC which would make any kill switch redundant anyway. Also I would consider whether your chosen place to fly is a great idea if you have a lot of low flying small aircraft in the area!?!

Careful flying and keeping it in VLOS will always be your best friends when it comes to drones.
2017-10-21
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heliman
First Officer
Denmark
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I don’t have much choice. Flying in urban areas in not allowed.
A friend of mine has a private airstrip nearby where I usually fly. Low traffic, as it only has 4 planes in the hangar.
More rarely, I go my rc club, which shares an airstrip with an ultralight aircraft club. It has a rule that says that everybody
land when an ultralight starts moving. They always do a flyover before they land, so we are warned.

The spark is very slow. The best way to get it out of the way, might be to kill the motors.
Mine has not yet gone berzerk. But...
With my rc helicopters, I always have a finger ready on the kill switch.

Below is a failed video shot from the private airstrip. I would not get nearer than 100 meters because of the missing kill switch.

I like to blame the go app for the bad panning. The whole left part of the screen was blocked by an repeatedly respawning high wind warning.
(I still consider how to make the shot next time).



2017-10-21
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hallmark007
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heliman Posted at 2017-10-21 10:17
I don’t have much choice. Flying in urban areas in not allowed.
A friend of mine has a private airstrip nearby where I usually fly. Low traffic, as it only has 4 planes in the hangar.
More rarely, I go my rc club, which shares an airstrip with an ultralight aircraft club. It has a rule that says that everybody

So you are saying that every time you go to this RC club you would drop your spark to the ground and most likely kill it, so what then buy another spark and drop it to the ground . My advice here is to not go to this particular RC club you will save yourself a whole bunch of money.
2017-10-21
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DJI Susan
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Actually, the CSC will stop the motor when APP detected that aircraft does not work well. In normal flight, the drone will land helically, please kindly note.

Also, flight safety is always top priority. I would recommend to change another open location to avoid catastrophic loss.
2017-10-21
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heliman
First Officer
Denmark
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I'm just asking for an emergency kill switch.
Preferable not the CSC. If it worked it might be activated accidentally during an intentional spiral down maneuvre.
The phantom 4 pro is claimed to do it with left stick down-right together with the RTH button. That's better.
Better yet, would be a button combination. Without any delay.

If the choice is hitting somebody or drop the spark to the ground, what would you do?
At the rc club it is a strict rule that you must crash your aircraft to the ground if collision is imminent.

No matter where I am flying, a situation may appear, where crashing the spark to the ground is the
only way to avoid harm. Surroundings can quickly change.
I hope you get my point.

2017-10-22
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hallmark007
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heliman Posted at 2017-10-22 00:13
I'm just asking for an emergency kill switch.
Preferable not the CSC. If it worked it might be activated accidentally during an intentional spiral down maneuvre.
The phantom 4 pro is claimed to do it with left stick down-right together with the RTH button. That's better.

“ if the choice of hitting somebody or dropping spark to the ground “ what if someone walks underneath your spark when you drop it to the ground?

Rules of flying drones is if you see or spot Manned AC you lower your drone if your flying in a situation where you cannot lower your drone in time and you already know this, then you shouldn’t be flying in that environment period as you know you are putting manned aircraft at risk.

There are notams available to all using the skies and it would be very simple for you to find out times of manned aircraft launch and landings, when dji had kill switch they caused much more damage than saving mishaps.

CSC is more designed to stop motors after collision in emergency situation.
2017-10-22
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heliman
First Officer
Denmark
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A former bad implementation of a kill switch is no excuse for not making a proper one.
It should use a button combination and have no delay.
Without delay, the pilot has a much better control of where it will crash.

On phantom 4 pro The leftstick downright+RTH button combination works, but has a delay
which makes it pretty difficult for the pilot to calculate where it crashes if it is up to speed.
2017-10-22
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hallmark007
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heliman Posted at 2017-10-22 08:23
A former bad implementation of a kill switch is no excuse for not making a proper one.
It should use a button combination and have no delay.
Without delay, the pilot has a much better control of where it will crash.

Maybe you should answer the questions as to why a drone pilot would be flying in an area where manned aircraft are taking off and landing , without first checking notams which would be a lot safer option to take or flight schedules. 99.9% of people using Mavic and spark without the need for kill switch, you must also remember that P4Pro is 5 times the size of spark . It seems somehow your looking for your spark to bail you out of every situation

What your looking for is a drone with the failsafe of and redundancies of an inspire /matrice.

“To say you have no choice is to relieve yourself of responsibility.”
2017-10-22
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heliman
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Denmark
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The rc club shares airstrip with an ultralight flight club (for many years now). Officially approved for rc aircrafts up to 25kg.
But that’s not what this is about.
If you don’t want a kill switch, turn that option off.

2017-10-22
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hallmark007
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heliman Posted at 2017-10-22 09:52
The rc club shares airstrip with an ultralight flight club (for many years now). Officially approved for rc aircrafts up to 25kg.
But that’s not what this is about.
If you don’t want a kill switch, turn that option off.

It’s not about not wanting it, it’s about whether it can cause more destruction by having it than not. I haven’t heard of 1 incident of someone using kill switch that has saved anything, so be free to show us the necessity of having a kill switch and if it is so as you can kill your spark when flying in unsuitable areas for flying this drone I’m afraid it won’t wash.
2017-10-22
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heliman
First Officer
Denmark
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All right. This is pure imagination.
Alone with the spark, filming at a narrow river.
A group of bicycles appear on the other side. They are busy talking and not alert.
The spark pops a prop, pirouettes out of control and starts moving against the people on the other side.

The spark can get down on this side, in the water, or on the other side of the river.
Better get it down on this side. But it can't descend fast enough. Solution: Cut the motors
while it is on this side of the river.
The spark could be taken up instead, but that’s probably a bad idea while it is piroutting madly.
2017-10-22
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hallmark007
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heliman Posted at 2017-10-22 11:21
All right. This is pure imagination.
Alone with the spark, filming at a narrow river.
A group of bicycles appear on the other side. They are busy talking and not alert.

In this situation you will find CSC will work as it should, it’s also likely that AC will turn more than 90 degrees causing motors to shut down.

2017-10-22
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Viking-Pilot
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hallmark007 Posted at 2017-10-22 02:29
“ if the choice of hitting somebody or dropping spark to the ground “ what if someone walks underneath your spark when you drop it to the ground?

Rules of flying drones is if you see or spot Manned AC you lower your drone if your flying in a situation where you cannot lower your drone in time and you already know this, then you shouldn’t be flying in that environment period as you know you are putting manned aircraft at risk.

I'm quite new to the drone flight and the RC world in general, just about 3 weeks, but during the time I've been piloting my Spark I've only been really scared once, when a helicopter suddenly appeared behind some buildings and I was flying 50-60 meters above GL when I saw that huge AC flying too close to my Spark ... so I thought about making that CSC movement with the sticks, but then my reaction was to put the dron to sport and drag it down and back to me as soon as possible.
Since that day I am very careful with my flight and the way I am flying ... It was very early in the morning and I was in a park, I know now that the regulation of drones in Spain does not allow flying in these areas, so I avoid them now ...
Anyway, my point is that I think my reaction was the best I could have given my location and situation as it was, I do not think a killer switch would have been my best choice since I would not have had control over the falling drone and as hallmark007 indicates the damage could have been much greater ...
One question for you hallmark007: where do you get the NOTAM information?
2017-10-22
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hallmark007
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Viking-Pilot Posted at 2017-10-22 11:55
I'm quite new to the drone flight and the RC world in general, just about 3 weeks, but during the time I've been piloting my Spark I've only been really scared once, when a helicopter suddenly appeared behind some buildings and I was flying 50-60 meters above GL when I saw that huge AC flying too close to my Spark ... so I thought about making that CSC movement with the sticks, but then my reaction was to put the dron to sport and drag it down and back to me as soon as possible.
Since that day I am very careful with my flight and the way I am flying ... It was very early in the morning and I was in a park, I know now that the regulation of drones in Spain does not allow flying in these areas, so I avoid them now ...
Anyway, my point is that I think my reaction was the best I could have given my location and situation as it was, I do not think a killer switch would have been my best choice since I would not have had control over the falling drone and as hallmark007 indicates the damage could have been much greater ...

You will get Notams from any local aviation sight if you just google you should be able to find them.

One thing you should be aware of is if your Spark is flying normally CSC won’t work as you think it might.
It will only work in cases of emergency just like the post above where it looses a prop or if it had some sort of crash and was out of normal control.

It always good to be aware of surroundings and you acted just as you should on seeing helicopter lower aircraft as quick as possible. Good job.
2017-10-22
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heliman
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Denmark
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It would be nice to know when CSC works, exactly. The delay may prevent it from falling on this river bank.
With some exercise and luck it may be posible to recover from a high fall, like this phantom does.
2017-10-22
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hallmark007
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heliman Posted at 2017-10-22 12:20
It would be nice to know when CSC works, exactly. The delay may prevent it from falling on this river bank.
With some exercise and luck it may be posible to recover from a high fall, like this phantom does.
https://youtu.be/P20jEzQ5eU0?t=81

Only problem is spark tumbling will just not allow it to recover because 90 degree turn will power off motor I THINK but I’m not sure.
2017-10-22
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Viking-Pilot
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hallmark007 Posted at 2017-10-22 12:14
You will get Notams from any local aviation sight if you just google you should be able to find them.

One thing you should be aware of is if your Spark is flying normally CSC won’t work as you think it might.

Thanks a lot for the info mate.
2017-10-22
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hallmark007
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Viking-Pilot Posted at 2017-10-22 12:35
Thanks a lot for the info mate.

Your welcome.
2017-10-22
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