Hi guys,

I"m kind of heartsick my mavic blew away in high winds. I had only flow it 7 times and it seemed to be handling things ok and then I went higher to be sure it didn't go into some tree tops and it must have hit a faster level of air and was gone very quickly.

I put it on return to home and watched on the screen as it got blown further and further until at about 1.5 km from the home point I got weak signal messages and then lost contact. At that point it was 17 % battery.

On the flight logs it shows what I assume must be the last point of contact at 1.5 km, it didn't change at all after that for a few minutes but I cannot see how it wouldn't have been still being blown backwards, the altitude was 55 meters and the drone was still trying to return home. But the flight log is saying a total distance flown of 2.1 km. Since I was flying around my house behind the trees for a bit before it got blown away, do you think the 2.1 km might be the 1.5 from home point to point of last contact plus the flying around the house (which seems like it wouldn't have been 600 meters) or is it possible somehow the flight log is accurate and showing distance flown even after the controller said lost signal?

Most importantly, is there a way to locate the drone remotely? I am assuming that even if the drone landed safely somehow - possible as it is all orchards around here - the battery is dead.

I guess instead of hoping that the wind would drop and it would return home I would have been smarter to instead have used the camera to wait for an open area long before it was way far away and then tried landing it. Maybe someone has a way to find my drone, I sure hate the thought I've lost it already.

Thanks everybody.

Use this link to upload your flight log and post back link to it.
Log view.

On further thought since the battery was last at 17 % while the drone was trying to return home, what would the drone have done at as the power ran down? It would have still been getting blow further, but at what point would the drone stop trying to return home and just set down safely? Or would it just keep trying to return home until 0 % and then fall from the sky? Thanks so much.

There is a feature built in to the DJI Go 4 app "Find My Drone". If you go to the home page of the app where you would "Enter Device", look in the upper right hand corner for three horizontal dashes. Click that and will drop down a menu where you will see the feature "Find My Drone".

I hope this helps, I can't imagine how you must feel right now...

To follow up, I will say that I am quite surprised that the Mavic could not power through the wind to get back to you. The motors are capable of powering the Mavic to speeds of 40 mph (personally had mine up 39 mph according to my flight data). Know this probably doesn't help, just has my curiosity aroused...

Really hope that you locate your Mavic, and that it is still intact...

djiuser_L993ni8 Posted at 2017-12-3 09:37
On further thought since the battery was last at 17 % while the drone was trying to return home, what would the drone have done at as the power ran down? It would have still been getting blow further, but at what point would the drone stop trying to return home and just set down safely? Or would it just keep trying to return home until 0 % and then fall from the sky? Thanks so much.

I went higher to be sure it didn't go into some tree tops and it must have hit a faster level of air and was gone very quickly.

Yes, wind speed is often significantly higher above the tree line.

is it possible somehow the flight log is accurate and showing distance flown even after the controller said lost signal?

No, the log won't contain any information except what was received by the controller.

Most importantly, is there a way to locate the drone remotely?

No. Find My Drone is just going to tell you the last known position based on the same information that's in the log.

I guess instead of hoping that the wind would drop and it would return home I would have been smarter to instead have used the camera to wait for an open area

Did you try putting it into Sport mode? That would have almost doubled the maximum speed you could have used to fly it back to you? It's also a good practice to fly the initial / outbound portion of your flight upwind so that you aren't fighting the wind on the return trip.

On further thought since the battery was last at 17 % while the drone was trying to return home, what would the drone have done at as the power ran down?

Once the critical battery level was reached (10% by default) it would have started landing regardless of whether it had completed the return trip.

As G_Sig mentioned, your best hope is to upload the flight log (TXT file from your mobile device) to PhantomHelp using these instructions, and if you want additional recommendations from others as to where to look you should post a link to the uploaded log here.

DocQuicksand Posted at 2017-12-3 10:02
To follow up, I will say that I am quite surprised that the Mavic could not power through the wind to get back to you. The motors are capable of powering the Mavic to speeds of 40 mph (personally had mine up 39 mph according to my flight data). Know this probably doesn't help, just has my curiosity aroused...

Really hope that you locate your Mavic, and that it is still intact...

I am quite surprised that the Mavic could not power through the wind to get back to you. The motors are capable of powering the Mavic to speeds of 40 mph (personally had mine up 39 mph according to my flight data).

The Mavic doesn't fly at maximum (Sport mode) speed during RTH; it limits itself to the 22 MPH maximum at which the obstacle avoidance sensors can still function.

DroneFlying Posted at 2017-12-3 10:18
I am quite surprised that the Mavic could not power through the wind to get back to you. The motors are capable of powering the Mavic to speeds of 40 mph (personally had mine up 39 mph according to my flight data).

The Mavic doesn't fly at maximum (Sport mode) speed during RTH; it limits itself to the 22 MPH maximum at which the obstacle avoidance sensors can still function.

Good point, I failed to see it was in the RTH mode. Like you, would have cancelled RTH, flipped to Sport and tried powering my way back.

On a seperate note, how do you like your DJI Goggles? I have the race edition coming, hopefully this week. I have used other FPV goggles, but understand that DJI's are quite nice.

DocQuicksand Posted at 2017-12-3 10:27
Good point, I failed to see it was in the RTH mode. Like you, would have cancelled RTH, flipped to Sport and tried powering my way back.

On a seperate note, how do you like your DJI Goggles? I have the race edition coming, hopefully this week. I have used other FPV goggles, but understand that DJI's are quite nice.

On a seperate note, how do you like your DJI Goggles?

I love them; the improvement of the flying experience is huge in my opinion. You can see far more detail with them than you can with any practical-sized mobile device, and they work very well even in broad daylight.

DroneFlying Posted at 2017-12-3 10:32
On a seperate note, how do you like your DJI Goggles?

I love them; the improvement of the flying experience is huge in my opinion. You can see far more detail with them than you can with any practical-sized mobile device, and they work very well even in broad daylight.

Thanks for replying...

Still feeling for the original publisher, hope he finds his Mavic!

DocQuicksand Posted at 2017-12-3 10:37
Thanks for replying...

Still feeling for the original publisher, hope he finds his Mavic!

Thanks guys, will try and fight my way through the steps to upload the flight log and post it for peeps to see. Cheers, appreciate the community mucho

djiuser_L993ni8 Posted at 2017-12-3 11:02
Thanks guys, will try and fight my way through the steps to upload the flight log and post it for peeps to see. Cheers, appreciate the community mucho

Let us know when you find it. Dying to see how this story plays out. If it makes you feel more at ease, I'll tell you that a buddy of mine burned his Mavic in from over 400 feet when an improperly installed prop came off and suffered only mild damage. He was able to repair it himself. Hoping the best for yours...

DroneFlying Posted at 2017-12-3 10:16
I went higher to be sure it didn't go into some tree tops and it must have hit a faster level of air and was gone very quickly.

Yes, wind speed is often significantly higher above the tree line.

Guys (and for sure most are guys ) I really appreciate your input on this

http://app.airdata.com/main?share=vdeRgb is the link to the flight log on airdatata.com which appears to be the new version of the phantomhelp referred to.

I'm not sure what to think at this point - is the point at the end of the flight where the drone lost contact with the controller (probably the case) or is it where the drone may have landed? It was at 17 % battery at this point.

on the airdata log it says landing battery at 17 % ... but an earlier poster thought the default may have been at 10 % which would mean much further along at an airspeed of ... of what I don't know, the log says max airspeed at 18 mph.

I have learned a lot about a few things here ... I just pray I get my drone back and I thank everybody who has helped out. I bought the drone partly to stop being so much of a tech dinosaur and just getting to this point on the forum and uploading this flight log has been a challenge, if you can believe it in a community of tech wizards.  I appreciate your patience and thanks.

djiuser_L993ni8 Posted at 2017-12-3 12:07
Guys (and for sure most are guys ) I really appreciate your input on this

http://app.airdata.com/main?share=vdeRgb is the link to the flight log on airdatata.com which appears to be the new version of the phantomhelp referred to.

Please upload the log to PhantomHelp using these instructions. The information available from AirData is much less helpful in analyzing situations like this.

djiuser_L993ni8 Posted at 2017-12-3 12:07
Guys (and for sure most are guys ) I really appreciate your input on this

http://app.airdata.com/main?share=vdeRgb is the link to the flight log on airdatata.com which appears to be the new version of the phantomhelp referred to.

The best thing about this whole experience is being reminded a bunch of strangers actually want to help. How cool is that. A little wine helps too

djiuser_L993ni8 Posted at 2017-12-3 12:07
Guys (and for sure most are guys ) I really appreciate your input on this

http://app.airdata.com/main?share=vdeRgb is the link to the flight log on airdatata.com which appears to be the new version of the phantomhelp referred to.

I'm not sure what to think at this point - is the point at the end of the flight where the drone lost contact with the controller (probably the case) or is it where the drone may have landed? It was at 17 % battery at this point. on the airdata log it says landing battery at 17 % ... but an earlier poster thought the default may have been at 10 % which would mean much further along

It would have stayed in the air -- and probably continued drifting away -- until the battery reached 10%, at which point it would have begun landing. Once I get access to the PhantomHelp I can make an estimate of how much farther it would have drifted before it reached 10%, but that's not as easily done using AirData. It probably isn't very far from the last known coordinates, but if you upload the TXT file to PhantomHelp I can probably provide you with a location closer to where it landed.

I just pray I get my drone back and I thank everybody who has helped out. I bought the drone partly to stop being so much of a tech dinosaur and just getting to this point on the forum and uploading this flight log has been a challenge, if you can believe it in a community of tech wizards.  I appreciate your patience and thanks.

You're very welcome. I hope you get it back too and will do my best to figure out where to recommend looking for it. Please do take the time to work through the instructions on PhantomHelp, as it provides quite a bit more information on the flight that AirData and is much more useful in cases like this.

DroneFlying Posted at 2017-12-3 12:20
I'm not sure what to think at this point - is the point at the end of the flight where the drone lost contact with the controller (probably the case) or is it where the drone may have landed? It was at 17 % battery at this point. on the airdata log it says landing battery at 17 % ... but an earlier poster thought the default may have been at 10 % which would mean much further along

It would have stayed in the air -- and probably continued drifting away -- until the battery reached 10%, at which point it would have begun landing. Once I get access to the PhantomHelp I can make an estimate of how much farther it would have drifted before it reached 10%, but that's not as easily done using AirData. It probably isn't very far from the last known coordinates, but if you upload the TXT file to PhantomHelp I can probably provide you with a location closer to where it landed.

http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/RWYSNP6DM7SHMER474FW/

Et voila as they say here in France. Let me know if this doesn't work as a link.

djiuser_L993ni8 Posted at 2017-12-3 12:32
http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/RWYSNP6DM7SHMER474FW/

Et voila as they say here in France. Let me know if this doesn't work as a link.

And I get why you say the airdata is so much less helpful, what a difference.

djiuser_L993ni8 Posted at 2017-12-3 12:33
And I get why you say the airdata is so much less helpful, what a difference.

Good job. I'll take a look and let you know what I'm able to figure out. Yes, PhantomHelp is specifically designed for situations like this, while AirData is more of a way to keep a record of the high-level details of a flight.

djiuser_L993ni8 Posted at 2017-12-3 12:33
And I get why you say the airdata is so much less helpful, what a difference.

It looks like once it got over about 100 feet or so the wind really grabbed a hold of it, before that it seemed to have no real problem handling itself other than moving back and forth in gusts. Maybe one of you guys will have a forecasted landing area given the very uniform windspeed and direction as shown by the path followed -  the area is largely orchards so hopefully once it hit that 10 % point it found a spot and came down unharmed. Or do you guys think it may have actually landed at the 17 % point or is that just the point at which it lost contact? If it was the lost contact point and it had another 7 % of battery power to go before trying to land then I would think it would have maintained the same heading back to home in the air and the same power trying to fight the wind - there is a large orchard field directly downwind of where it was at the lost contact point.
Thoughts?

djiuser_L993ni8 Posted at 2017-12-3 12:49
It looks like once it got over about 100 feet or so the wind really grabbed a hold of it, before that it seemed to have no real problem handling itself other than moving back and forth in gusts. Maybe one of you guys will have a forecasted landing area given the very uniform windspeed and direction as shown by the path followed -  the area is largely orchards so hopefully once it hit that 10 % point it found a spot and came down unharmed. Or do you guys think it may have actually landed at the 17 % point or is that just the point at which it lost contact? If it was the lost contact point and it had another 7 % of battery power to go before trying to land then I would think it would have maintained the same heading back to home in the air and the same power trying to fight the wind - there is a large orchard field directly downwind of where it was at the lost contact point.
Thoughts?

The last log entry showing 17% power at this location is just where the connection between the Mavic and its remote was finally lost and probably isn't where it landed. As you suspected, with 17% battery left it would have continued to drift in the same direction (heading around 133° by my calculations) a little longer. It was using roughly 1% of its battery every 10 seconds, so with 17% battery it would have drifted a little over a minute longer. It was moving at around 3.6 m/s, so another 70 seconds of that would put it somewhere around here when it started landing. I'd begin looking there and search outwardly from that location.

Good luck and please let us know how this turns out.

DroneFlying Posted at 2017-12-3 13:02
The last log entry showing 17% power at this location is just where the connection between the Mavic and its remote was finally lost and probably isn't where it landed. As you suspected, with 17% battery left it would have continued to drift in the same direction (heading around 133° by my calculations) a little longer. It was using roughly 1% of its battery every 10 seconds, so with 17% battery it would have drifted a little over a minute longer. It was moving at around 3.6 m/s, so another 70 seconds of that would put it somewhere around here when it started landing. I'd begin looking there and search outwardly from that location.

Good luck and please let us know how this turns out.

Thank you, you guys are the bomb. Will head out this first thing in the am.

I'm sorry for your loss, I do hope you find your drone with minimal or no damage

Hi sir, that must've been frustrated for you, I am sorry for your loss. Please check the flight records on the DJI GO 4 app of this accident, check the take-off point, pull the progress bar to the end if it is right, then you can see the location of the last signal of your drone. Try to find your drone there, or follow and search the straight line path between the disconnected location and the Homepoint.
At the same time, you can also contact support.eu@dji.com for a further help.

djiuser_L993ni8 Posted at 2017-12-3 13:27
Thank you, you guys are the bomb. Will head out this first thing in the am.

Keep us posted. If you don't find it in the am get a mate(s) with their drone(s) to cover the area with 4K video and we'll scan it for you

djiuser_L993ni8 Posted at 2017-12-3 13:27
Thank you, you guys are the bomb. Will head out this first thing in the am.

yes please let us know if you find it. We're hoping you do!

djiuser_L993ni8 Posted at 2017-12-3 09:37
On further thought since the battery was last at 17 % while the drone was trying to return home, what would the drone have done at as the power ran down? It would have still been getting blow further, but at what point would the drone stop trying to return home and just set down safely? Or would it just keep trying to return home until 0 % and then fall from the sky? Thanks so much.

Usually a drone trying to return to home will attempt to fly home until it falls from the sky... but in the flight logs it should still show that last position when it would have lost all power and dropped.

Thunderfoot1991 Posted at 2017-12-4 07:39
Usually a drone trying to return to home will attempt to fly home until it falls from the sky... but in the flight logs it should still show that last position when it would have lost all power and dropped.

When the battery is under 10% it will start landing in standard settings.
If you look at the map its is normal that it lost connection before forced landing.
There are few tree rows in the the way so he don't have LOS.

Well you have a nice image there of where it came down, I would be out to that farm and at the farmers door ...hey excuse me but .... can I take a look around.
Also, where the original RTH location was, go look there as well.  I find it hard to believe the Mavic had a problem with the wind to that extent.

Your speed was slow from the beginning?

ok, here's the update.  I appreciate the eyes on this one for those who make it to the end ...

My wife and I spent about 6 hours carefully searching. We started in this field that Drone Flying Captain https://goo.gl/maps/KRiKUtm7U2J2 posted above (Thanks Drone Captain!). This large field is a new peach orchard, well tended, and we walked each row, nothing. The southern border is the 615 on google maps, the other 3 sides are perfectly rectangular. there was a guy clipping tree branches in one part of the field, he hadn't found it, he'll be in that field the rest of this week and beyond. I don't think he found it and hid to keep, seemed pretty honest. Other than a couple rows he had clipped that morning we walked each row

Then we moved over and searched the furthest half (the downwind of the trajectory line) of the field that had the last signal recorded in it. This one  :http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/RWYSNP6DM7SHMER474FW/#
Nothing.

Then we searched the field downwind of the one that drone captain kindly marked as the most likely and that we had searched in the morning ... this field is overgrown but not too crazy. It is an irregular rectangle with a dry watercourse at the far end, the south eastern end. The south border is of course also the 615. Nothing. Then we searched the field on the other side of the dry water course from this field, and then walked the ditches of the 615 and the tall trees that border the 615 southern side. Nothing.
Then we started searching the sides of the fields closest to the 615 on the other side of the 615 opposite all the fields we had search in the morning. These fields are all bordered by narrow tall rows of trees that are cypresses they use as windbreaks here around the orchard fields as we get the strong north tramontane wind that caused my drone to fly off yesterday. So our thinking was possibly that the drone flew over the windbreak rows of trees that are  maybe 50 feet high, had a reduction in wind speed, started to gain ground following the return to home function, then hit the 10 % and had to land.
Still nothing.
At that  point it was time to go get the kids from school and a bit discouraged. I need your guys input on two things:
1 - our calculations
at the last signal the drone was at 135 feet and had been at that altitude for about 10 seconds, before that it had been at 155 feet for over a minute, before that at 188 feet pretty continuously for a while. Taking the last ten data points in the awesome flight record log you guys helped me locate and upload, it had been blown 168 feet further from home between 19  min 40.4 second and the last contact at 20 min 15.4 secs (5141 distance to home minus 4973 distance to home = 168 feet in 35 secs). This gave us a speed over ground of just under 5 feet further per second in the air.
Looking at battery consumption at 20 min 15.4 sec flight time = 1215 total seconds while battery goes from 100 % to 17 %, this gave us for each 1 % of battery = about 15 seconds flight time.
So from the last data point we figured the drone flew another 7 % X 15 seconds per 1 % = 105 seconds at which time it would have hit 10 % and started to descend.
So from last data point, about 105 secs X 5 ft/ sec distance lost = 505 feet further in wind direction before starting to descend.
From there, how much further did it blow before landing? hard to say but the trajectory of wind was very very consistent and we had searched the fields from the last data point to what seemed like at least 1000 feet from the last point.
So thanks in advance for reviewing our calcs and any great ideas or info we're not aware of

question 2:
when the drone hits 10 % and its is fighting to do a return to home (and losing ground at 5 ft per sec), how is the drone programmed to behave? It has collision avoidance on, there are lines of trees along the south side of the 615 and generally at the east end of fields as windbreaks. How does the drone behave if it detects a tree under or near it during that descent of the last 10 %? Or what would it do if it detected low bushes under the landing point - which there were in a couple of the further downwind fields? If it  hit 10 % and was still at 133 feet, which seems probable, how fast does it go down and what would be the drift over ground as it  moved closer to the ground?

If we take our calculations of the drone flying for 105 second or nearly 2 minutes before hitting 10 % and then dropping, but still losing ground progessively (less as it gets closer to ground) that seems to suggest from the last data point is might be ... ? 500 feet further at 133 feet altitude plus 200-300 feet for ground lost during descent?

We're kind of bummed, we searched thoroughly generally walking 10 feet apart and trying to keep to a grid pattern even in the overgrown bush.

So either my calcs are off; the maybe the wind direction changed somewhere and the drone is not on the trajectory continued out from the actual flight (although we searched the whole fields under its path to a distance of at least 200 feet or so to either side of its trajectory); or could it be something like the drone somehow made distance back towards the last data point as it dropped, maybe even during the last 10 % programmed descent? This last idea seems hard to believe but the sun is shining for another two days and I want that drone back. I'm game to keep searching but looking for fresh ideas.
Unless it landed on or near the road (and there are no drone pieces on the road lol) and was picked up, then this is probably about as good as you could hope for as a place to look for a lost drone.

Thanks very much!

Tris

Reading the commentaries I realise when the drone first got caught by the wind and taken away I compounded the problem by flying it higher thinking I wanted to maintain line of sight while waiting for the return to home function to access the power that I knew the drone must have to go at 50-60 km an hour in sport mode. Then I didn't have the confidence to just try to land it using the controller as I had only flown it 7 times and focused on line of sight for safety and landing, my main concern was not hitting a tree or something like a bush when landing and thus destroying it or the camera gimbal.  I honestly never thought there might be some kind of limit on the power it could access to return home.
Just hoping this wasn't a 1500 $ lesson.  

djiuser_L993ni8 Posted at 2017-12-4 10:50
ok, here's the update.  I appreciate the eyes on this one for those who make it to the end ...

My wife and I spent about 6 hours carefully searching. We started in this field that Drone Flying Captain https://goo.gl/maps/KRiKUtm7U2J2 posted above (Thanks Drone Captain!). This large field is a new peach orchard, well tended, and we walked each row, nothing. The southern border is the 615 on google maps, the other 3 sides are perfectly rectangular. there was a guy clipping tree branches in one part of the field, he hadn't found it, he'll be in that field the rest of this week and beyond. I don't think he found it and hid to keep, seemed pretty honest. Other than a couple rows he had clipped that morning we walked each row

Man I hope the tree trimmer finds it for you, sucks loosing any drone, anytime! It is out there somewhere, if you do recover it ( and you continue to want to fly past your VLOS ), I suggest a one time investment on a cell tower linked tracking device, many of them on line, I know hind sight is 20/20, just a suggestion, really sorry for you loss, great bunch of guys here helping !

If I was a millionaire I would just come out and find it for you, nothing would give me greater pleasure because he who looks finds.

My whole website would be millionaire finds peoples drones.

QuadKid Posted at 2017-12-4 11:17
Man I hope the tree trimmer finds it for you, sucks loosing any drone, anytime! It is out there somewhere, if you do recover it ( and you continue to want to fly past your VLOS ), I suggest a one time investment on a cell tower linked tracking device, many of them on line, I know hind sight is 20/20, just a suggestion, really sorry for you loss, great bunch of guys here helping !

I thought about getting a set of these Tiles. 2 for $60 USD range is 200 ft. one for each Mavic i have

QuadKid Posted at 2017-12-4 11:17
Man I hope the tree trimmer finds it for you, sucks loosing any drone, anytime! It is out there somewhere, if you do recover it ( and you continue to want to fly past your VLOS ), I suggest a one time investment on a cell tower linked tracking device, many of them on line, I know hind sight is 20/20, just a suggestion, really sorry for you loss, great bunch of guys here helping !

I thought about getting a set of these Tiles. 2 for $60 USD range is 200 ft. one for each Mavic i have. https://www.thetileapp.com/en-us/store/tiles/pro-combo#specs

rolling56 Posted at 2017-12-4 11:45
I thought about getting a set of these Tiles. 2 for $60 USD range is 200 ft. one for each Mavic i have. https://www.thetileapp.com/en-us/store/tiles/pro-combo#specs

I used the trackr Bravo for car keys

I found them very unreliable.. you have to been with in 5-10 meters of them to work, batteries needs to be replaced frequently; you only know when you need them that the battery's run flat.. INMHO not very practical unless a longer range and better battery

Henry-M Posted at 2017-12-4 14:39
I used the trackr Bravo for car keys

I found them very unreliable.. you have to been with in 5-10 meters of them to work, batteries needs to be replaced frequently; you only know when you need them that the battery's run flat.. INMHO not very practical unless a longer range and better battery

Thanks for the tip.

djiuser_L993ni8 Posted at 2017-12-4 10:50
ok, here's the update.  I appreciate the eyes on this one for those who make it to the end ...

My wife and I spent about 6 hours carefully searching. We started in this field that Drone Flying Captain https://goo.gl/maps/KRiKUtm7U2J2 posted above (Thanks Drone Captain!). This large field is a new peach orchard, well tended, and we walked each row, nothing. The southern border is the 615 on google maps, the other 3 sides are perfectly rectangular. there was a guy clipping tree branches in one part of the field, he hadn't found it, he'll be in that field the rest of this week and beyond. I don't think he found it and hid to keep, seemed pretty honest. Other than a couple rows he had clipped that morning we walked each row

This is more riveting than when I followed the missing MH370 I'm hoping for a happy outcome.

Kevin36 Posted at 2017-12-4 03:44
Keep us posted. If you don't find it in the am get a mate(s) with their drone(s) to cover the area with 4K video and we'll scan it for you

Is there no-one in that area with a drone that can get some 4K footage of the area in question that we can scan through for you?

I am sure I could hire someone with a drone.... I don't know anyone with one, and speak French well but not amazingly well. Would it help if I drew lines on the google maps to outline areas searched in relation to the flight path?
... sorry I haven't already done so, I spent a bit of time working at that but haven't gotten it mastered yet.