Hi folks, i wanted to see how far i could maintain VLOS, so looking at the specs of the P4P;

Max Transmission Distance

2.400 - 2.483 GHz (Unobstructed, free of interference) FCC: 4.3 mi (7 km) CE: 2.2 mi (3.5 km) SRRC: 2.5 mi (4 km)

I only quoted the 2.4ghz because thats all i use, CE says 3500m, I am in the uk btw, yet 660m was the maximum @100m AGL before live view said no, this was with clear VLOS with fields below trees (forest) either side, imagine a 100m wide passageway, this was performed with a buddy, he was the pilot and i was the spotter, hes more experienced than me plus, and as mentioned above, i wanted to see how far i could maintain VLOS, i really didnt expect LV too quit so soon, if it says max is 3500m then i would expect at least 2000m to 3000m not 660m.

So, what gives, anyone in the UK gotten further with the P4P, you can reply in pm if you do not want too incriminate yourself ;) (see small print though)  i am on the latest FW, i dont know which, but it was up to date as of 2 days ago, app version is 4.1.22


Please read the small print

PS, before the KWs' start spouting about the UK rules, you may need to go and read them again, because as long as the "hobbyist" can keep VLOS he/she can go as far as they can, PfCO are limited to 500m unless EVLOS is granted.

Rules may be rules and i can tell you that most pilots have lost sight of their drone at some stage or another.
The question is really cryptic to be honest i guess it all depends on how good your eyesight is.
Some of us old farts are lucky to see the drone at 400 mtrs away yet others can see it well over 600-700mtrs away.
So how do they enforce vlos.

As far as live video feed goes you will prob find that the further away you are the higher you need to be. I did see a ratio somewere but forget where i found it lol.
Others in here may know what it is but i have found at times in open areas no trees or obstructions at all i can gett good live feed at well over 1 klm at ground level once the terrian changes tho you need to climb well above it to maintain a live video feed

Hellsgate Posted at 2018-1-10 22:01
As far as live video feed goes you will prob find that the further away you are the higher you need to be. I did see a ratio somewere but forget where i found it lol.
Others in here may know what it is but i have found at times in open areas no trees or obstructions at all i can gett good live feed at well over 1 klm at ground level once the terrian changes tho you need to climb well above it to maintain a live video feed

1, maybe 1.5 km in a good day. I'm still puzzled how - in the name of Buddha - they come up with this 7 km maximum range specification?

I’ve had my P4P 2060m without any problems before I bottled it because I was over water. I’ve not had a chance to try again as the wind has limited my flights.

Forgot to say, I got the 2060m on the 600 beta and I’m staying on that,

When you're trying to find the edge of range and you have a certain goal in mind, I think success is more of an art than a science.  There is so much involved and success or failure often seems very mysterious.  

Are you sure you aimed correctly?  

Did you hold the controller steady?  It helps a lot to put your controller on a tripod.  

Was there a cross wind?  A cross wind will force your AC antennas to tilt to the left or right and therefore limit range.

Were you too high?  High is good so that you don't have fresnel zone problems.  Too high is bad because the antenna length exposure combined with the forward tilt is not best.  

Was it humid?  2.4 ghz does not like humidity.  

Good luck.

Technically here in the UK your not supposed to go further than 500m BUT I do know of a friend who flew 4.2km with a stock aircraft and I watched him do the flight I was impressed!! But that was with a P3A and that is more than its supposed to do according to the specs printed on the website..

Matthew Dobrski Posted at 2018-1-10 22:46
1, maybe 1.5 km in a good day. I'm still puzzled how - in the name of Buddha - they come up with this 7 km maximum range specification?

How far can your car go? Do you drive it that fast?

A CW Posted at 2018-1-11 04:38
How far can your car go? Do you drive it that fast?

True, I'm aware of this marketing trickery. My Chevy Silverado speedometer is scaled up to 200km/hr, needed only for suicidal highway drive down the hill! However, specified 7 km range of video transmission for stock DJI RC should render at least average 3 km of real life distance. Without questioning our IQ, I mean ...   

Matthew Dobrski Posted at 2018-1-11 17:01
True, I'm aware of this marketing trickery. My Chevy Silverado speedometer is scaled up to 200km/hr, needed only for suicidal highway drive down the hill! However, specified 7 km range of video transmission for stock DJI RC should render at least average 3 km of real life distance. Without questioning our IQ, I mean ...

I never fly that far myself but a product should always deliver what is on the tin.  

A CW Posted at 2018-1-11 17:04
I never fly that far myself but a product should always deliver what is on the tin.

It is stretching the truth, in that it is an optimistic spec. meaning it will get that distance if everything is favourable. Worse than this, the specs on audio equipment for power output, pure BS. But I have operated my P3P at a range of nearly 5 km and got only one short waring.

Oki, i should have mentioned well before any drone police caught up ;) heres something some of the UK folks may not know, in the UK (at present) "Hobbyists" can go out as far as they like as long as you can maintain VLSO,  nothing about this flight was illegal

Mark, yes, it was fairly humid i think that day @ 83% at time of flight, still should have given more than 660m surley?

Aerial-Image, that is only true for PCfO, no rule on distance for hobbyist as long as can maintain VLSO

A CW, the answer to your question is, no comment ;) but  what i can tell you is this, the max stated speed for a 2005 Volvo C70 T5 is 155mph (restricted) it is 100% accurate, the max stated speed for the 2004 GSXR 1000 is 186, ok, this one is incorrect cause the digital speedo stops at 186mph the revs kept climbing, hope that answers your question ;)

Bashy Posted at 2018-1-11 21:10
Oki, i should have mentioned well before any drone police caught up ;) heres something some of the UK folks may not know, in the UK (at present) "Hobbyists" can go out as far as they like as long as you can maintain VLSO,  nothing about this flight was illegal

Mark, yes, it was fairly humid i think that day @ 83% at time of flight, still should have given more than 660m surley?

Yes  PfCO are only to go 500 max in unaided VLOS,  But hobbyists must also comply to this. If you get caught and they can confirm it via your telemetry in the drone and app.

Hellsgate Posted at 2018-1-10 21:53
Rules may be rules and i can tell you that most pilots have lost sight of their drone at some stage or another.
The question is really cryptic to be honest i guess it all depends on how good your eyesight is.
Some of us old farts are lucky to see the drone at 400 mtrs away yet others can see it well over 600-700mtrs away.

I was able to see a friends drone over a mile away in the morning sun. It helped that our drones were lit up by the sun.  As he was flying I even took a video of him coming past just to show I could spot his drone.  

Clear skies, mountain flying, sunrise and drones in the sun.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Polariz ... yifuRdnIhlkGU4srAlg
https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-DJI ... sTI2NacOjQZN0Rq3jKw

solution for a longer range

" this was with clear VLOS with fields below trees (forest) either side, imagine a 100m wide passageway, this was performed with a buddy, he was the pilot and i was the spotter,"

I guess it was the trees that caused the problem,  a 100m wide passageway is not good for radio waves.
Last time I tried to go a long distance I got stuck at about 300m, but that was almost certainly due to the big TV transmitter close by.  I have also got perfect reception and a strong signal indicated at 1500m.

You do know that your spotter must be standing right next to the pilot?  Which means that having a spotter is irrelevant to the distance you can maintain sight of your aircraft, unless they have better eyes than you.

Thanks Roki, shouldnt have to do that though, what with specified distance being one thing and only getting less than a third of it from what i know about this mod though, it is very directional, similar to how the parabolics are?

Aerial-Image
Had this conversation with many a PfCO on FB and then they check up and then they get back to me confirming, please, feel free to check yourself, as long as we maintain VLOS, thats what matters, why do you not think it stipulates it in the Drone Code ;)

When the distance is not 2 km.
needs a booster.

can and this one

Had this conversation with many a PfCO on FB and then they check up and then they get back to me confirming, please, feel free to check yourself, as long as we maintain VLOS, thats what matters, why do you not think it stipulates it in the Drone Code ;)

What is more important is that you can see the location sufficiently well that you are able to avoid collisions with other aircraft (helicopters, planes, other drones) and also follow the other rules such as maintaining 50m distance from humans.   If you are out at 600+ meters with a view of the area restricted by a 100m wide tree tunnel then that is questionable since you wont be able to see or hear aircraft coming in from the sides.

If you had a 100 m passageway for the 2.4 ghz signal to run through, both in width and height, that's a big passageway.  It would be plenty big enough for your signal to travel from the controller to the AC, and from the AC to the controller.  If you're not sure, you can use a fresnel zone calculator to check.

https://www.everythingrf.com/rf- ... nel-zone-calculator

Obviously, the size of the passageway isn't going to matter if you're not aiming correctly.  Are you sure you are aiming correctly?  

Re modding the controller...

IMO, modding the controller before you solve the stock range problem is a big mistake.  First you need to solve the fundamental problem of why your stock range is so poor.  Then, after you solve that problem, you can move forward with as many mods as you want, provided each one is done perfectly before moving to the next.  Otherwise, down the road, you will have a range issue, and you will have no idea where the problem might be...

Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-1-13 03:51
If you had a 100 m passageway for the 2.4 ghz signal to run through, both in width and height, that's a big passageway.  It would be plenty big enough for your signal to travel from the controller to the AC.  If you're not sure, you can use a fresnel zone calculator to check.

https://www.everythingrf.com/rf-calculators/fresnel-zone-calculator

I agree with you on all points

Yes, the antennas were positioned in a upright position parallel to each other and directed toward the ac.
There is really no reason it shouldn't be able to go at least 1000m in unhindered space
I certainyl will not do any mods, no reason really, but yes, stock would need to be resolved before hand.
1km @2.4ghz gives a radius of 5.58766805m, well within my area

Nigel, are you seriously telling me you wouldnt be able to hear an aircraft coming at 600m, if its a glider then yes, i would agree, any other type that has an engine you can hear from miles out, plenty of time to act accordingly, as for other drones, highly unlikely as they would be taking off my my home point, as for 50m from humans, thats n/a seen as the ac was far higher than the 50m.

The whole area that i flew in is subject to the USAF jet training at fairly high alt, perhaps 1000m+ this is the reason that we dont get many lighter ac at low alt, check it out, theres RAF Marham, theres RAF Lakenheath, theres RAF Mildenhall, then theres the Stanford Army training ground, the risk of a low flying aircraft at 100m is very low, not impssible of course but in this instance, you spouting the rules and regs is none applicable, we sought this place to do the test, its was adequate for our needs and the risk assessment was very very low. please leave it now, you going on about the R&R's is futile in this instance. We abided by all UK laws and saftey was paramount,

If you're sure the problem isn't interference, and it isn't one of the things listed in post #7, then there must be something wrong with the controller or the AC or the FW.  

To get the stock range, it doesn't help to fly scared.  You have to have confidence in your AC and its RTH ability.  What I'm saying is, you don't want to turn around at the first sign of weakness.  Pushing forward through the weakness will often bring success.  I know guys who will fly through weakness for an amazing distance, then when the AC finally goes into RTH, they will cancel RTH and fly backwards for a significant further distance to achieve their distance goal.  

I am a PfCO holder and I certainly would not fly beyond VLOS. Even thinking of the amount of money it cost to get my piece of paper is enough to rein in anything beyond that.  Being of a certain vintage my eyesight is not what it should be and thus my limit is 300m. I also have a bright flashing light to aid me. But I think that there are some other points to consider here too. Its not just about how far can you see the drone but also know i what orientation it is, and whether you can take avoiding action if needed. So whilst you may be able to see the drone per se can you honestly tell the exact orientation of it to an incoming craft, tree, person whatever? Much past a few meters it becomes pretty well impossible. In my days as a meteorologist i could judge Cirrus height to within 500 ft, but it was so much harder judging the relationship of that cloud to an aircraft. So being able to see the drone is not the only rule in my opinion, it is being able to see it, judge its relationship to the area in which it is flying and take effective action in controlling it too.
We too have many military aircraft flying in this area. Yes I can hear them coming but as they travel so quickly, and often very low, unless I am really very comfortable knowing where my craft is and what is it up to can make for some difficult decisions. Perhaps an optician or a physicist may be able to work out the the true distance that you can see a drone from its angular presentation related to the resolving ability of the human eye.

Unless somebody has it in a visual line-of-sight with a pair of binoculars

Let's be  honest.most people can not see there. Drone after 1/3 to 1/2 out.nevermind which way it is facing. They Tell you to only file VLS Knowingly you can't see it past that. But yet they sell a drone that has the ability to travel 5 miles away..

Bashy Posted at 2018-1-13 04:03
I agree with you on all points

Yes, the antennas were positioned in a upright position parallel to each other and directed toward the ac.

"Nigel, are you seriously telling me you wouldnt be able to hear an aircraft coming at 600m..."

Normally I would hear any aircraft at 600m, even a glider, but among trees?  It depends on conditions, the trees and where the aircraft is.

Last year I was standing in a forest clearing and had a Royal Marines helicopter pass directly over my head at about 70m altitude, heard it coming about 5 seconds before it was overhead, by the time I had worked out which direction it was (not easy with sound reflecting off trees) it was about 3 seconds.  Nowhere near enough time to get a drone out of the way.   I think it had just taken off from inside a small valley so at take off the ground was also blocking the sound, after that it was blocked by thick conifer trees.  

I once had a Tornado jet pass overhead while I was walking through forest, sneaked up behind me at close to the speed of sound and low enough to make the tops of the trees wave about in it's wake, heard it no more than 2 seconds before it was overhead.  That was so loud I couldn't hear anything else for a couple of minutes.

Don't fly in forests, fly out in the open with good visibility all around, better to break the rules and be safe than comply with the rules and cause an accident.

As to your calculation with the antennas, try it out in the open, you might find that such a simple calculation, although useful, doesn't take everything into account!

The distance spec is established under ideal conditions. That spec is only used to assure reliability. It does not mean that you can or should fly that distance and still have a VLOS. Personally I am very uncomfortable when I cannot see my Aircraft. I traded up to an Obsidian for that reason alone. It is much easier to acquire at a greater distance and in a clear skyline versus a white Phantom.

Some folks have stated it indirectly and qualified it and even attempted to quantify it...but I think it is pretty simple at least going toward addressing the original assertion of Visual Line of Sight
vlos is just that, you have to have the bird in your direct line of sight period.  Now as to how far out you can see it, that is quite up for debate as no one's eyes are the same.  However, considering a standard drone with no added lights using average eyes (age 30ish) and average lighting (some sun during the first 1/3 or last 1/3 of the day) conditions and an average environment some clouds and some structures or trees most are not going to see their rather small drone more than a few thousand feet away at the very most and likely well short of even that.
Heading away from the sun or in to it, add a cloudy day, have younger eyes, and a whole bunch more variables that change and that distance gets smaller or possibly larger.  Then consider your ability to safely operate it as others have stated and the reality is you can't go very far before you cannot either see it or operate it.  All this means that determining a "max" distance is a bit farcical as under most circumstances and conditions and even when limited radio wise most Phantoms can travel well past a person's vlos ability before it looses signal.

hdlou94 Posted at 2018-1-13 05:59
Unless somebody has it in a visual line-of-sight with a pair of binoculars

Sorry but this is incorrect in the US.  It has to be VLOS unaided, unless you use prescription glasses.  

Genghis9 Posted at 2018-1-13 07:01
Some folks have stated it indirectly and qualified it and even attempted to quantify it...but I think it is pretty simple at least going toward addressing the original assertion of Visual Line of Sight
vlos is just that, you have to have the bird in your direct line of sight period.  Now as to how far out you can see it, that is quite up for debate as no one's eyes are the same.  However, considering a standard drone with no added lights using average eyes (age 30ish) and average lighting (some sun during the first 1/3 or last 1/3 of the day) conditions and an average environment some clouds and some structures or trees most are not going to see their rather small drone more than a few thousand feet away at the very most and likely well short of even that.
Heading away from the sun or in to it, add a cloudy day, have younger eyes, and a whole bunch more variables that change and that distance gets smaller or possibly larger.  Then consider your ability to safely operate it as others have stated and the reality is you can't go very far before you cannot either see it or operate it.  All this means that determining a "max" distance is a bit farcical as under most circumstances and conditions and even when limited radio wise most Phantoms can travel well past a person's vlos ability before it looses signal.

Reason for being in VLOS is not only being able to see your drone, you should be able to identify its heading and you should be able to fly it home safely without the need for fpv , doing my commercial course we were asked to fly without using app , in fact a small bag was put over screen while app was turned on , we were asked to fly to a height of 60 metres and distance where we still had VLOS and to turn Aircraft to face home and hover.
Nobody flew past 300 metres 2 people flew less than 200 metres ,except one guy who flew to 460 metres all were able to turn aircraft to face home except the guy who flew to 460 metres. If he was flying on his own without transmission his only option was RTH.
Also nobody flew higher than 45 metres, sometimes we think we can see 500 metres but look down at the monitor and all is lost , we try to look for aircraft but can no longer see it this is not VLOS , VLOS means we can see aircraft and now where it is where it’s heading, and we are in full control. It’s not how far you can see but how much you can see.
Fly safe.

Also to get max range you need to be high 120m as just flying above tree height  will reduce range. So your P4P should easily do similar or better?! The TX must be in visual line of contact to the drone nothing in the way at ALL. to get max range. Direct clean signal contact.

P3 Advanced Max Transmission Distance

FCC Compliant: 3.1 mi (5 km) CE Compliant: 2.2 mi (3.5 km) it beat this! (Unobstructed, free of interference)

The drone was in VLOS at 100m height, as for determining the direction, thats easy, turn in a circle or look at the screen, remember, this was a buddy system/spotter, remember, this was a test to see how far i could see, not how far the drone could go, also bear in mind that i now know how far i am comfortable with and thats established at a max of 400m and that is set as my limit in the app, also, i was not in the forest, i was in a large clearing, also i know that there was no choppers lurking in any fields close by, i also know that the jets around here do not sneak up on us, i am about 8 miles from Lakenheath as the crow flies and i can hear then take off, they are training nearly everyday so i also know there will be no flights below the 120m except for the unknown, i.e. emergencies, this test was done under conditions that deemed acceptable, no laws or rules for hobbyists was broken, bear in my that under the rules of the CAA / ANO, hobbyists are permitted with a spotter to go as high as 1000ft, we were no where near that limit at about 380ft, and hobbists do not have a distance limit, only to stay within VLOS, this was complied too!

Bashy Posted at 2018-1-13 09:26
The drone was in VLOS at 100m height, as for determining the direction, thats easy, turn in a circle or look at the screen, remember, this was a buddy system/spotter, remember, this was a test to see how far i could see, not how far the drone could go, also bear in mind that i now know how far i am comfortable with and thats established at a max of 400m and that is set as my limit in the app, also, i was not in the forest, i was in a large clearing, also i know that there was no choppers lurking in any fields close by, i also know that the jets around here do not sneak up on us, i am about 8 miles from Lakenheath as the crow flies and i can hear then take off, they are training nearly everyday so i also know there will be no flights below the 120m except for the unknown, i.e. emergencies, this test was done under conditions that deemed acceptable, no laws or rules for hobbyists  was broken, bear in my that under the rules of the CAA / ANO, hobbyists are permitted with a spotter to go as high as 1000ft, we were no where near that limit at about 380ft, and hobbists do not have a distance limit, only to stay within VLOS, this was complied too!

"remember, this was a buddy system/spotter, "

How is this relevant?
It doesn't let you fly any further, only higher.

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-1-13 07:37
Reason for being in VLOS is not only being able to see your drone, you should be able to identify its heading and you should be able to fly it home safely without the need for fpv , doing my commercial course we were asked to fly without using app , in fact a small bag was put over screen while app was turned on , we were asked to fly to a height of 60 metres and distance where we still had VLOS and to turn Aircraft to face home and hover.
Nobody flew past 300 metres 2 people flew less than 200 metres ,except one guy who flew to 460 metres all were able to turn aircraft to face home except the guy who flew to 460 metres. If he was flying on his own without transmission his only option was RTH.
Also nobody flew higher than 45 metres, sometimes we think we can see 500 metres but look down at the monitor and all is lost , we try to look for aircraft but can no longer see it this is not VLOS , VLOS means we can see aircraft and now where it is where it’s heading, and we are in full control. It’s not how far you can see but how much you can see.

Correct

Nigel_ Posted at 2018-1-13 10:04
"remember, this was a buddy system/spotter, "

How is this relevant?

Exactly!

OK so the hight part isn't technically relevant, but it's still 1000ft away is it not? The horizontal distance is not limited for hobbyists, how many times do I have to say this? Prove to me otherwise?