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Spark & FAA registration -- or not?
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43590 46 2018-1-27
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cundare
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Here's what's confusing.  The Spark has a 300g "takeoff weight" but  without its 95g battery, weighs about 205g, well under the 0.55lb/250g  minimum requirement for FAA registration.  (See, for example, the FAA.gov  document "geting_started/model_aircraft/media/UAS_Weights_Registration.pdf").  So  it appears that, based on the most authoritative source of information available, you don't need to register a Spark.  However, the Web is full of claims that the Spark is subject to registration.  I'm guessing that the confusion is because the statute under which the FAA enacted its registrations did not specify whether battery weight should be included.  However, the FAA document states that the weight it considers does not include "the weight of a camera, sensor, battery or other device that may be added to the aircraft as an option, thereby increasing the aircraft’s weight."  That seems pretty clear.

Anybody have additional insight into this?

2018-1-27
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PS013
Captain
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I don’t think you can call the battery an option, as it can not takeoff without it ....
2018-1-27
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PS013
Captain
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Oh, and if I remember properly, there was a label on the box of my spark stating it need to be registered ...
2018-1-27
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dj_dread
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"take off weight" includes the battery as well.
2018-1-27
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hallmark007
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For the sake of $5 I don’t see any problem here, think the fact that you have a registered drone will help you out when flying outside.
2018-1-27
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peselito
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hallmark007 Posted at 2018-1-27 16:02
For the sake of $5 I don’t see any problem here, think the fact that you have a registered drone will help you out when flying outside.

Hey!

I was wondering which registration I have to do on the FAA site. Since I am using the drone for hobby and recreational usage only, I was thinking that section 336 (flying under special rule for model aircraft) is the way to go.

Am I correct with that assumption?
2018-1-27
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hallmark007
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peselito Posted at 2018-1-27 16:55
Hey!

I was wondering which registration I have to do on the FAA site. Since I am using the drone for hobby and recreational usage only, I was thinking that section 336 (flying under special rule for model aircraft) is the way to go.

Yes that’s all you need to do.
2018-1-27
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A CW
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I've checked their website and it doesn't legally stipulate 'payload weight' or 'weight upon take off' - just that the drone needs to be over 250g to register... Common sense dictates that the battery will obviously need to be included as part of the drone in order to gain lift into airspace and I would therefore register the Spark as over 250g with the battery fitted but legally that could be debatable as it's not stated in the FAA's requirements for registration. An oversight on their part.
2018-1-28
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"Maverick"1776
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Since Spark weighs .66lbs, and FAA mandates registration of .55lbs or higher, I registered mine. It's only $5 for three years. Better to be safe and in compliance.
2018-1-28
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Grmachine
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Spark requires registration.
2018-1-28
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cundare
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Grmachine Posted at 2018-1-28 17:36
Spark requires registration.

Thanks for all the quick responses, but please read my question a little more closely.  The FAA document I cited gives specific examples of which drones require registration, stating repeatedly that it does not consider battery weight when making these determinations.  These slightly ambiguous statements are the only ones I can find online by the FAA on this issue , but they'e repeated so often in the document that the FAA obviously considers this an important issue.  My question is about  reconciling this document with the commonly held online belief that the Spark -- well under .55lb/250g w/o battery -- falls within the scope of the regs in question.  In other words, this FAA document -- from the most authoritative source -- strongly implies that the Spark may not require registration.

I submitted this question to the FAA itself last week, but have not received a response.  I asked the question here b/c I thought that somebody else in the community might have already made what I'd have expected to be an obvious query.

If not, I'll post the FAA's response here, if one arrives.
2018-1-28
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S-e-ven
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>does not include "the weight of a camera, sensor, battery or other device that may be added to the aircraft as an option,<

The 'option' camera would be the not needed Go-Pro on a <250g DIY racequad plus a second battery to gain some real air-time.
As long you can't fly a quad with a weight under 250g, there are no options here
2018-1-28
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Bright Spark
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If a manufacturer's batt of 50 g were available, then no reg would be required. You could still take good pictures with 5 min flight time.
Plus many hobbyist
drones have  variable configurations.
Although I'm in UK, registration is coming.
2018-1-28
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fansde510068
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In the US it cost $5 every three years. With the flip-flop of having to register hobby quads then not having to and then having to you might as well register it. If you are not doing illegal things with your craft either there is almost no reason you will ever have to prove to someone that it is registered. Only reason to be worried about being able to track your craft is if its being used for illegal things.
2018-1-28
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Bright Spark
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I am happy to register mine.
Not saying it ever will, but if flying a quad less than 250g meant less restriction on when and where it could take place, I would be very keen.
You'd get around 15 per cent longer with the weight loss, and more with the latest batt tech. Maybe best part of 10 mins.
2018-1-29
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cundare
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FWIW, I received an answer today from DJI support stating that FAA registration is not required for the Spark.
2018-1-30
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sSkyPilot
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Huh... I'd guess the rule applies to a aircraft with a battery in it to be used the fly above ground. And regardless, registration online is $5. and takes less than 5 minutes. But read the rules  Small Unmanned Aircraft during sign-up. Go to it....
2018-1-30
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Bright Spark
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Although I'm in UK, sounds good not to register.Whether CAA will follow is open.
It's immaterial to me in terms of money etc, but I live in hope that sub 250 gm drones generate a lower profile.
2018-1-30
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FatherXmas
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I remember reading somewhere that the weight includes everything required to take off which would include the battery. Since there seems to be a lot of conflicting information about the need to register or not, just my opinion, I think I'd go ahead and register. For $5, why risk it? From the FAA website:
'You will be subject to civil and criminal penalties if you meet the criteria to register an unmanned aircraft and do not register.'
2018-1-30
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Aeromirage
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This is from DJI.com
https://www.dji.com/flyingtips/us?from=dji-store
zzj.jpg
2018-1-30
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Coppertop
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cundare Posted at 2018-1-30 12:59
FWIW, I received an answer today from DJI support stating that FAA registration is not required for the Spark.

With all due respect, DJI is not the FAA.
It's only $5, good for 3 years and covers multiple drones.
Just register it and fly with one less worry.
2018-1-30
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cundare
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Aeromirage Posted at 2018-1-30 17:36
This is from DJI.com
https://www.dji.com/flyingtips/us?from=dji-store

OK, I'm done with this thread.  Virtually all the responses were just guesses, and DJI is apparently the most authoritative source available, since the FAA has not responded to my inquiries and has posted only ambiguous information.  And no, the $5 is NOT the issue, for chrissakes, but this is something, as the lawyers say, upon which reasonable mindsd may differ.  Anybody who can't figure out why the NY Times reports that the overwhelming majority of drone users do not register their units is welcome to go pay the $5 for a device that does not require registration.

But thanks for all the responses anyway.  Unless I hear differently from someone with unambiguous primary-source informatio, the issue is closed: although registration is required for DJI's older models, the Spark falls below the FAA's weight limit, based on the way that the FAA interprets the statutory requirements.
2018-1-31
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cundare
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cundare Posted at 2018-1-31 12:10
OK, I'm done with this thread.  Virtually all the responses were just guesses, and DJI is apparently the most authoritative source available, since the FAA has not responded to my inquiries and has posted only ambiguous information.  And no, the $5 is NOT the issue, for chrissakes, but this is something, as the lawyers say, upon which reasonable mindsd may differ.  Anybody who can't figure out why the NY Times reports that the overwhelming majority of drone users do not register their units is welcome to go pay the $5 for a device that does not require registration.

But thanks for all the responses anyway.  Unless I hear differently from someone with unambiguous primary-source informatio, the issue is closed: although registration is required for DJI's older models, the Spark falls below the FAA's weight limit, based on the way that the FAA interprets the statutory requirements.

...but I will forward Aeromirage's link to my DJI customer-service rep to reconcile the information she personally provided me (about no Spark registration requirement) with the conflicting statement at the bottom of Aeromirage's DJI link.  Maybe she was wrong? Maybe the page needs updating?  If I get any new information, I'll post it here.

Thanks, Cap!
2018-1-31
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Coppertop
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Per the document you linked in the original post...

"The listed weights do not include the weight of a camera, sensor, battery or other devices that may be added to the aircraft as an option, thereby increasing the aircraft’s weight."

Last I noticed the battery on the Spark is not an option. It is a requirement for flight, not an option. Seems pretty straightforward that the Spark meets the threshold weight to require registration.
A camera or sensor becomes optional when the design allows it to be easily removed and not required for flight.
If you want to take the chance and not register your Spark, that's a risk you take but it could turn out to be a costly one.

2018-1-31
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Bright Spark
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So if designed with 2 batts,if only one of which would  be required for flight, we're there!
There's nothing wrong with design tailored to the rules. Car manufacturers and many others adjust designs to comply.
As I posted in a parallel thread, my interest, in the UK, is that legitimate flight is so restricted, that a drone deemed a toy might be a better bet.
2018-1-31
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cundare
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Coppertop Posted at 2018-1-31 19:56
Per the document you linked in the original post...

"The listed weights do not include the weight of a camera, sensor, battery or other devices that may be added to the aircraft as an option, thereby increasing the aircraft’s weight."

I just heard back from DJI customer support today who confirmed that, despite the aforementined DJI link (which apparently simply has not been updated to include the Spark), the DJI Spark does not have to be registered with the FAA unless used for commercial purposes.  I'm still waiting for the FAA to reply to my request for information.

And all sources tell me that hobbyist drone registration is pretty much never enforced, although I would certainly want to be in compliance regardless.  At this point, there seems to be little chance, based on my due diligence, of a "costly mistake."
2018-2-1
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Coppertop
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cundare Posted at 2018-2-1 12:48
I just heard back from DJI customer support today who confirmed that, despite the aforementined DJI link (which apparently simply has not been updated to include the Spark), the DJI Spark does not have to be registered with the FAA unless used for commercial purposes.  I'm still waiting for the FAA to reply to my request for information.

And all sources tell me that hobbyist drone registration is pretty much never enforced, although I would certainly want to be in compliance regardless.  At this point, there seems to be little chance, based on my due diligence, of a "costly mistake."

Sorry.

The FAA isn't going to give you a pass because DJI said you didn't have to register the Spark or because your "sources" say that hobby drone registration is pretty much never enforced.

It's a $5 expensive that may never come into play but if it does, can save you a world of headaches.

Glad it's you risking things and not me.
2018-2-1
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cundare
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Coppertop Posted at 2018-2-1 15:29
Sorry.

The FAA isn't going to give you a pass because DJI said you didn't have to register the Spark or because your "sources" say that hobby drone registration is pretty much never enforced.

Let it go, Coppertop.  The issue appears to be settled.  If that doesn't fit your personal agenda, you can either: i) make the effort to find and present credible rebuttal evidence from a primary source (and if you can add something new and constructive to the conversation, sure, I'd appreciate that) or ii) STFU and move on.

Sitting there and just sniping at me because, when I did the work to educate myself about the issue, I came to an unavoidable conclusion that you don't want to be true isn't a grown-up option.

That's my last word on the subject until / if / when I hear back directly from the FAA.  My time's too valuable to wast on trolls.
2018-2-2
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Coppertop
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cundare Posted at 2018-2-2 11:48
Let it go, Coppertop.  The issue appears to be settled.  If that doesn't fit your personal agenda, you can either: i) make the effort to find and present credible rebuttal evidence from a primary source (and if you can add something new and constructive to the conversation, sure, I'd appreciate that) or ii) STFU and move on.

Sitting there and just sniping at me because, when I did the work to educate myself about the issue, I came to an unavoidable conclusion that you don't want to be true isn't a grown-up option.

Here's hoping it all works out for the best and you never face a hefty fine for ignoring the obvious.
2018-2-2
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k9education
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cundare Posted at 2018-1-31 12:10
OK, I'm done with this thread.  Virtually all the responses were just guesses, and DJI is apparently the most authoritative source available, since the FAA has not responded to my inquiries and has posted only ambiguous information.  And no, the $5 is NOT the issue, for chrissakes, but this is something, as the lawyers say, upon which reasonable mindsd may differ.  Anybody who can't figure out why the NY Times reports that the overwhelming majority of drone users do not register their units is welcome to go pay the $5 for a device that does not require registration.

But thanks for all the responses anyway.  Unless I hear differently from someone with unambiguous primary-source informatio, the issue is closed: although registration is required for DJI's older models, the Spark falls below the FAA's weight limit, based on the way that the FAA interprets the statutory requirements.

There is no ambiguity in the FAA's guidelines on this matter.  None.  It states, quite clearly: "Unmanned aircraft weighing less than 55 pounds and more than 0.55 pounds  (250 grams) on takeoff, including everything that is on board or otherwise attached to the aircraft and operated outdoors in the national  airspace system must register."

The uas_weights_registration.pdf document you referenced has absolutely no bearing on this topic at all.  It is simply providing examples of drones which, under the assumption manufacturer weights are accurate, would not need to be registered.  It even makes a point of specifying that any optional equipment added to the aircraft, such as an add-on camera or extra capacity battery, are not included in these weights and the document clearly implies that the addition of such equipment may push it over the 250g limit.  

You can do whatever you'd like of course, but ignorance of the law doesn't absolve you from culpability.  Perhaps you should take that $5 and put it towards a reading comprehension course at the local community college.

2018-5-13
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k9education
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Since you, literally, need it spelled out for you, here you go: https://federaldroneregistration ... onestoberegistered/
2018-5-13
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stuka75
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k9education Posted at 2018-5-13 20:37
Since you, literally, need it spelled out for you, here you go: https://federaldroneregistration.com/requireddronestoberegistered/

LOL. Good one. In addition FWIW, the pilot is registered, not the drone for hobby flying. The pilots FAA number needs to be on the drone/aircraft.
2018-5-14
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Bing Err
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FatherXmas Posted at 2018-1-30 17:24
I remember reading somewhere that the weight includes everything required to take off which would include the battery. Since there seems to be a lot of conflicting information about the need to register or not, just my opinion, I think I'd go ahead and register. For $5, why risk it? From the FAA website:
'You will be subject to civil and criminal penalties if you meet the criteria to register an unmanned aircraft and do not register.'

Has anyone every been prosecuted to civil and criminal penalties for not registering their drone?
2018-5-14
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Madwand
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"Maverick"1776 Posted at 2018-1-28 17:30
Since Spark weighs .66lbs, and FAA mandates registration of .55lbs or higher, I registered mine. It's only $5 for three years. Better to be safe and in compliance.

Its $25 for 3 years, not $5.
2018-5-14
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FatherXmas
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Madwand Posted at 2018-5-14 21:01
Its $25 for 3 years, not $5.

That is not correct,  You must be looking at a 3rd party site, the actual FAA  site is $5 for 3 years.
https://faadronezone.faa.gov/#/
2018-5-15
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dronego
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Madwand Posted at 2018-5-14 21:01
Its $25 for 3 years, not $5.

i just called FAA a few min ago. DJI spark needs to be registered. I just registered, $5 for 3 yrs and got my registration number
2018-5-15
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NedUK
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Do you have a reason why you don’t want to register?

You seem to be going well out of your way to say that other people are not reading these post right but the info is right there.

I see optional cameras and battery’s (some people strap and wire in extra battery’s) as the option element here..

The fact is your Spark is over the weight with everything it needs to fly.. that’s the weight that is going to hit someone on the head or crash into someone’s property.

Pay your $5 and have peace of mind
2018-5-15
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Madwand
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FatherXmas Posted at 2018-5-15 07:24
That is not correct,  You must be looking at a 3rd party site, the actual FAA  site is $5 for 3 years.
https://faadronezone.faa.gov/#/

I guess i got suckered...
2018-5-15
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bentbrent
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Despite all the claims and counter claims over whether or not you need to register a Spark, bear this in mind: if you register with the FAA for recreation purposes only, you DO NOT register the actual drone. You register yourself. You are issued a number that you put on all your drones. The FAA doesn't keep track of how many, or which drones you have.
2018-5-28
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Crystalskulls
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Yes to lighter battery!!!
If the spark had a lighter battery it would fall under the 250 gram weight....now if you were flying with that battery is another story..
   Be like having a inside way out....   Yes now has capability  of a take off weight of less then 250..with smaller battery...
. Answer yes
  I would buy this item
2018-8-18
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