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P4P Fatal Crash
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Joerg62
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My P4P crashed a few days ago. I filed a report, but have not heard back from dji. I am not so much concerned with a warranty claim, I just want to understand what happened to avoid a repeat when I buy a new P4P (and that I will, the thing is way too much fun!). I should mention that I had many flights with no incidents. I use the Litchi software.

Here is what happened: I flew at a ground elevation of approx. 6000ft. in central NV ambient temp. about 60F. I explored some cliffs, mostly hovering, for maybe 5 minutes. Then switched to sport mode, flew fast in a straight line away from my location for maybe 600ft, turned around and started the return to my location in a moderate descent, about 200-300ft. AGL. Suddenly, with no warning, approximately 300ft from my location, the drone sort of flipped over backwards and tumbled to the ground. It was destroyed on impact, but miraculously still sort of boots up. The log in the drone ends at the point where it flipped, with no indication of a problem.

Possibly related: On the flight immediately prior to the fatal flight the camera and picture "froze". Drone was otherwise fine. I landed, powered the drone off then back on and after verifying that the camera was back to normal I took off for the fatal flight. That had never happened before.

Has anyone experienced a similar issue under similar conditions? Any wizards out here that would be willing to look at the logs for problems? Any input is greatly appreciated.

2018-2-4
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hallmark007
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Just click on link below and follow instructions come back here and post your link

http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/Upload/
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Aerial-Image
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Pilot error - incorrect flight app !!! Sorry for your loss...
2018-2-4
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Hellsgate
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Aerial-Image Posted at 2018-2-4 14:25
Pilot error - incorrect flight app !!! Sorry for your loss...

Im not really convinced that litchy would have caused this failure.Unless he was flying at very high speed then suddenly tried to reverse direction but that doesnt explain why the drone would fall from the sky.
I dont see how the app could have caused the drone to flip over backwards like that sounds more like total loss of power to one or both of the rear motors or perhaps a siezed motor.
I suggest sending the drone to dji for analysis they may determine that it was a mechanical failure and still cover it under warranty.


2018-2-4
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Genghis9
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Short of the experts reviewing your flight log, and there are a few who can and come up with at least a good idea if not a determination about what happened.  I don't think the video feed freezing was a related issue.
I have a theory, but it is just that, as you were in Sport Mode it is not likely any sensors were a factor as they are supposed to be disabled, so I think you either had a bird impact/encounter or turbulence.
Now you didn't indicate winds during that day, so turbulence is a possibility, and I'm going to assume you would have seen a bird.  Short of an uncommanded control input, the log should show that, turbulence is a possibility.  
2018-2-4
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Genghis9
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Hellsgate Posted at 2018-2-4 14:42
Im not really convinced that litchy would have caused this failure.Unless he was flying at very high speed then suddenly tried to reverse direction but that doesnt explain why the drone would fall from the sky.
I dont see how the app could have caused the drone to flip over backwards like that sounds more like total loss of power to one or both of the rear motors or perhaps a siezed motor.
I suggest sending the drone to dji for analysis they may determine that it was a mechanical failure and still cover it under warranty.

Do you think twin motor failure is possible, I could see 1 but not two, not unless this is a software issue that sent a false control input...
Have to admit you might be correct, but I just don't see how it's possible...as some would note anything is possible.
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Hellsgate
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Genghis9 Posted at 2018-2-4 15:41
Do you think twin motor failure is possible, I could see 1 but not two, not unless this is a software issue that sent a false control input...
Have to admit you might be correct, but I just don't see how it's possible...as some would note anything is possible.

I dont believe that 2 motors would fail at the same time no but depending on the actual cause of the fault for example an esc failure then i guess it could be possible.
Even just 1 motor failure during sports mode would be enough to flip the drone over backwards and have it plummet to the ground.
2018-2-4
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Hellsgate
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Im also not convinced that turbulance would cause what the op has described happen.
Turbulance would cause the drone to behave irratically yes but to just suddenly flip over like that and drop to the ground?
You may be correct but the op hasnt mentioned anything about it being a windy day.
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Genghis9
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Hellsgate Posted at 2018-2-4 15:47
I dont believe that 2 motors would fail at the same time no but depending on the actual cause of the fault for example an esc failure then i guess it could be possible.
Even just 1 motor failure during sports mode would be enough to flip the drone over backwards and have it plummet to the ground.

Well ok
If that is the case then the good news is it would be covered under warranty if it's still in effect.
I'm coming to find that I don't like these ESC things, yeah I know they are critical to the drone doing what it does but when they go south they go big time and the problem is there is little to know warning, and that is the problem.
2018-2-4
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Genghis9
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Hellsgate Posted at 2018-2-4 15:56
Im also not convinced that turbulance would cause what the op has described happen.
Turbulance would cause the drone to behave irratically yes but to just suddenly flip over like that and drop to the ground?
You may be correct but the op hasnt mentioned anything about it being a windy day.

Agreed, lacking further info, that was just a theory which can get shot down quickly if it were a calm day...
Possibly ESC failure is more likely the culprit
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Hellsgate
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Genghis9 Posted at 2018-2-4 16:02
Well ok
If that is the case then the good news is it would be covered under warranty if it's still in effect.
I'm coming to find that I don't like these ESC things, yeah I know they are critical to the drone doing what it does but when they go south they go big time and the problem is there is little to know warning, and that is the problem.

Im just not sure if dji would cover the warranty if he was using a 3rd party app to fly with. Regardless of the cause of the failure im sure i read something about flying with 3rd party apps can void warraty if this is the case then i think the op may be out of luck.
ESC failures can come in many shapes and forms and yes when it does fail its usually under load and causes unrepairable damage without any warning at all.
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Aerial-Image Posted at 2018-2-4 14:25
Pilot error - incorrect flight app !!! Sorry for your loss...

Pilot error - incorrect flight app !!!
That response is ignorant and incorrect.

Litchi and several other programs are based on the SDK that DJI released to them.
Using one of those apps is not pilot error.
DJI warranty still applies even using 3rd party apps and if the cause can be shown to be a DJI issue, it is covered.
It would be an exceptionally rare case where a crash was caused by the use of a 3rd party app.
2018-2-4
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Genghis9
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Hellsgate Posted at 2018-2-4 16:12
Im just not sure if dji would cover the warranty if he was using a 3rd party app to fly with. Regardless of the cause of the failure im sure i read something about flying with 3rd party apps can void warraty if this is the case then i think the op may be out of luck.
ESC failures can come in many shapes and forms and yes when it does fail its usually under load and causes unrepairable damage without any warning at all.

I have no idea about that point you raise...however, I would think that if the failure is internal to the drone and there was no signs of tampering then I don't see how using a 3rd party app would null the warranty, but I'm no lawyer here.
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Hellsgate
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Well i hope for the op's sake that it is covered under warranty.
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Geebax
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Genghis9 Posted at 2018-2-4 16:28
I have no idea about that point you raise...however, I would think that if the failure is internal to the drone and there was no signs of tampering then I don't see how using a 3rd party app would null the warranty, but I'm no lawyer here.

The issue is really about flight logs, Litchi does not produce flight logs detailed sufficiently for DJI's purposes in examining an incident. But the aircraft does, and if you can extract the flight log from the aircraft, that is acceptable to DJI.
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Genghis9
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Geebax Posted at 2018-2-4 16:46
The issue is really about flight logs, Litchi does not produce flight logs detailed sufficiently for DJI's purposes in examining an incident. But the aircraft does, and if you can extract the flight log from the aircraft, that is acceptable to DJI.

From the OPs comments he seems to indicate that the birds logs are accessible...
Hopefully so, and then he can upload them and the 10lb brains can come up with some possible answers if not the answer.  
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Geebax
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Genghis9 Posted at 2018-2-4 16:50
From the OPs comments he seems to indicate that the birds logs are accessible...
Hopefully so, and then he can upload them and the 10lb brains can come up with some possible answers if not the answer.

Agreed, if, after examining the aircraft logs, the evidence points to an aircraft failure, he should be able to submit those logs to DJI. Although they most likely will want the aircraft back to do that themselves.
2018-2-4
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Hellsgate
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I must have misread or misinterpreted what i read i hope this is the case and dji do find mechanical failure to be the cause and cover under warranty
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Genghis9
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Hellsgate Posted at 2018-2-4 16:53
I must have misread or misinterpreted what i read i hope this is the case and dji do find mechanical failure to be the cause and cover under warranty

Maybe you did maybe you didn't but I think Geebax is correct, if the logs are good on the bird and it was a malfunction that was bird specific then I can't see how it would not be covered under warranty.
If you dig up the reference though it would be good to see it and share it.
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Hellsgate
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What This After-Sales Policy Does NOT Cover

This policy does not cover the following: 
×        Crashes or fire damage caused by non-manufacturing factors, including but not limited to, pilot errors. 
×        Damage caused by unauthorized modification, disassembly, or shell opening not in accordance with official instructions or manuals.
×        Damage caused by improper installation, incorrect use, or operation not in accordance with official instructions or manuals. 
×        Damage caused by a non-authorized service provider. 
×        Damage caused by unauthorized modification of circuits and mismatch or misuse of the battery and charger. 
×        Damage caused by flights which did not follow instruction manual recommendations. 
×        Damage caused by operation in bad weather (i.e. strong winds, rain, sand/dust storms, etc.) 
×        Damage caused by operating the product in an environment with electromagnetic interference (i.e. in mining areas or close to radio transmission towers, high-voltage wires, substations, etc.). 
×        Damage caused by operating the product in an environment suffering from interference from other wireless devices (i.e. transmitter, video-downlink, Wi-Fi signals, etc.). 
×        Damage caused by operating the product at a weight greater than the safe takeoff weight, as specified by instruction manuals. 
×        Damage caused by a forced flight when components have aged or been damaged. 
×        Damage caused by reliability or compatibility issues when using unauthorized third-party parts. 
×        Damage caused by operating the unit with a low-charged or defective battery. 
×        Uninterrupted or error-free operation of a product. 
×        Loss of, or damage to, your data by a product. 
×        Any software programs, whether provided with the product or installed subsequently. 


×        Failure of, or damage caused by, any third party products, including those that DJI may provide or integrate into the DJI product at your request. 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

×        Damage resulting from any non-DJI technical or other support, such as assistance with “how-to” questions or inaccurate product set-up and installation. 
×        Products or parts with an altered identification label or from which the identification label has been removed.

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Hellsgate
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Genghis9 Posted at 2018-2-4 16:57
Maybe you did maybe you didn't but I think Geebax is correct, if the logs are good on the bird and it was a malfunction that was bird specific then I can't see how it would not be covered under warranty.
If you dig up the reference though it would be good to see it and share it.

Ive underlined the section in question.
But it states if that 3rd party product causes the malfunction which in this case i dont believe litchy is the cause of this failure.
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Genghis9
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Hellsgate Posted at 2018-2-4 17:13
Ive underlined the section in question.
But it states if that 3rd party product causes the malfunction which in this case i dont believe litchy is the cause of this failure.

I would agree with that analysis...we'll know more if we can get the log uploaded...
Until then we are in suspense
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Geebax
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Hellsgate Posted at 2018-2-4 17:13
Ive underlined the section in question.
But it states if that 3rd party product causes the malfunction which in this case i dont believe litchy is the cause of this failure.

Any half-decent lawyer would have a field day with that exclusion. DJI make available a software development kit, and Litchi have made use of that kit to develop an app. Plus, simply voiding the warranty because the pilot used Litchi has no bearing if the failure was due to a mechanical failure of the aircraft. In any event, this has been covered many times in the past, and various moderators have quite implicitly said that use of Litchi does not void the warranty.
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Joerg62
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hallmark007 Posted at 2018-2-4 13:47
Just click on link below and follow instructions come back here and post your link

http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/Upload/

Wow, thank you all for your input. I will address the questions raised in following posts. As for uploading the logs to the link provided, the page only accepts logs from the DJI app or Litchi. I have neither (did not have logging enabled), but I do have the log from the drone, downloaded with DJI Assistant 2. The file contains about 100 different values per log record, as well as events, the flight path and more. I have uploaded it to one of my web sites at: www.dreamlandresort.com/FLY222.DAT.

The log ends at the exact moment the drone started doing its backflip. You will need a program called DatCon to extract the data. The home point elevation, needed for the 3-D flight path, was 2035m.
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Joerg62
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Genghis9 Posted at 2018-2-4 15:38
Short of the experts reviewing your flight log, and there are a few who can and come up with at least a good idea if not a determination about what happened.  I don't think the video feed freezing was a related issue.
I have a theory, but it is just that, as you were in Sport Mode it is not likely any sensors were a factor as they are supposed to be disabled, so I think you either had a bird impact/encounter or turbulence.
Now you didn't indicate winds during that day, so turbulence is a possibility, and I'm going to assume you would have seen a bird.  Short of an uncommanded control input, the log should show that, turbulence is a possibility.

Thank you for your reply. There was no wind to speak of that day, and no bird strike. I had eyes on the drone and watched in horror as it tumbled down.
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Hellsgate
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Joerg62 Posted at 2018-2-4 18:19
Wow, thank you all for your input. I will address the questions raised in following posts. As for uploading the logs to the link provided, the page only accepts logs from the DJI app or Litchi. I have neither (did not have logging enabled), but I do have the log from the drone, downloaded with DJI Assistant 2. The file contains about 100 different values per log record, as well as events, the flight path and more. I have uploaded it to one of my web sites at: www.dreamlandresort.com/FLY222.DAT.

The log ends at the exact moment the drone started doing its backflip. You will need a program called DatCon to extract the data. The home point elevation, needed for the 3-D flight path, was 2035m.

Cant seem to find your log on that site
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Genghis9
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Joerg62 Posted at 2018-2-4 18:19
Wow, thank you all for your input. I will address the questions raised in following posts. As for uploading the logs to the link provided, the page only accepts logs from the DJI app or Litchi. I have neither (did not have logging enabled), but I do have the log from the drone, downloaded with DJI Assistant 2. The file contains about 100 different values per log record, as well as events, the flight path and more. I have uploaded it to one of my web sites at: www.dreamlandresort.com/FLY222.DAT.

The log ends at the exact moment the drone started doing its backflip. You will need a program called DatCon to extract the data. The home point elevation, needed for the 3-D flight path, was 2035m.

Is there any reason you can't just upload it here http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/Upload/
and post the link back here?

One that will work best for all here and two your link took me to a page that it said did not exist?

Thanks
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Genghis9
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Joerg62 Posted at 2018-2-4 18:22
Thank you for your reply. There was no wind to speak of that day, and no bird strike. I had eyes on the drone and watched in horror as it tumbled down.

Well that would go to supporting the ESC failure or other internal malfunction...
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Joerg62
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Hellsgate Posted at 2018-2-4 16:12
Im just not sure if dji would cover the warranty if he was using a 3rd party app to fly with. Regardless of the cause of the failure im sure i read something about flying with 3rd party apps can void warraty if this is the case then i think the op may be out of luck.
ESC failures can come in many shapes and forms and yes when it does fail its usually under load and causes unrepairable damage without any warning at all.

I don't believe it was an issue with Litchi. I have been using it a lot, and found it to be quite stable.
Excuse my ignorance, what is an ESC failure? Not familiar with the lingo.
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Hellsgate
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Regardless of what the log file shows which as mentioned stoped the moment the failure occured i feel the best course of action should be to send whats left of the drone to dji and let them do an analysis of what may have happened. They will either repair under warranty or contact you with their findings.
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Joerg62
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Genghis9 Posted at 2018-2-4 16:50
From the OPs comments he seems to indicate that the birds logs are accessible...
Hopefully so, and then he can upload them and the 10lb brains can come up with some possible answers if not the answer.

Correct, I can access the telemetry data logged in the drone. I posted a link in a previous post. However, I am not able to upload to the address provided. Would greatly appreciate input on the proper way of uploading the log. I tried several times using the function in DJI Assistant 2, but never got an indication back that the upload was successful. Nor a reply from DJI support.
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Genghis9
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Hellsgate Posted at 2018-2-4 18:30
Regardless of what the log file shows which as mentioned stoped the moment the failure occured i feel the best course of action should be to send whats left of the drone to dji and let them do an analysis of what may have happened. They will either repair under warranty or contact you with their findings.

True but this kind of crash is intriguing is it not...inquiring minds want to know
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Hellsgate
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ESC is one of the circuit boards inside the drone it performs many functions from gps compass and motor control just to name a few.
You can relate it to the mother board inside a computer if you like
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Genghis9
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Joerg62 Posted at 2018-2-4 18:32
Correct, I can access the telemetry data logged in the drone. I posted a link in a previous post. However, I am not able to upload to the address provided. Would greatly appreciate input on the proper way of uploading the log. I tried several times using the function in DJI Assistant 2, but never got an indication back that the upload was successful. Nor a reply from DJI support.

Well if I'm not mistaken you don't have to use Asst 2 matter of fact you can load it from any memory drive just select the browse button and there are instructions for types of OSes being used too.
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Hellsgate
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Genghis9 Posted at 2018-2-4 18:33
True but this kind of crash is intriguing is it not...inquiring minds want to know

Yes very intriguing indeed
Would really love to find out the answers to a few questions on this one.
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Hellsgate
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Can you place the file into something like dropbox and post a link to it here?
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Joerg62
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Genghis9 Posted at 2018-2-4 18:25
Is there any reason you can't just upload it here http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/Upload/
and post the link back here?

Sorry, the period after the link screwed it up. Try www.dreamlandresort.com/FLY222.DAT

I tried repeatedly to upload to the link you suggested, but I keep getting a "Connection was reset" error. The page indicates it expects a txt or csv log. So the upload may be choking on the binary file.
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Joerg62
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Hellsgate Posted at 2018-2-4 18:34
ESC is one of the circuit boards inside the drone it performs many functions from gps compass and motor control just to name a few.
You can relate it to the mother board inside a computer if you like

Thank you for the explanation. Got it.
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Genghis9
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Joerg62 Posted at 2018-2-4 18:48
Sorry, the period after the link screwed it up. Try www.dreamlandresort.com/FLY222.DAT

I tried repeatedly to upload to the link you suggested, but I keep getting a "Connection was reset" error. The page indicates it expects a txt or csv log. So the upload may be choking on the binary file.

You are correct we need a file that looks like this or similar "DJIFlightRecord_2016-02-12_[15-33-10].txt"
or your litchi csv file
Prefer the on board log,
DAT file will not work for me, maybe others...
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Hellsgate
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Am downloading txt version will see if i can fix this problem
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