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Mavic Pro Crash Appalling Customer Service
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Nicolezehn
Indonesia
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Hi everyone,

This is my first post on this forum and I am hoping to get a second opinion from you as I haven't received a proper and professional response from DJI customer service.

So my Mavic Pro has crashed after a weak signal sign.
I have sent my data to DJI and their this is their analysis:

1. The aircraft worked in OPTI mode after taking off;
2. T=00:37, H=4.4m, the aircraft switched to Attitude mode due to weak GPS signal;
3. T=00:52, H=-0.2 m, the aircraft crashed in A mode;
4. In Attitude mode, the aircraft could not hover in place, brake and avoid obstacle automatically. Please fly with caution.
Conclusion: Crashed in A mode, charged.

Before the flight I've checked the status and everything indicated normal and there were no other error messages visible. I also did a firmware update a few days before the flight. I took off in opti-mode, in the open with line of sight of the drone. It was only a few seconds after taking off in Opti mode, the weak signal sign came up and it automatically switched to atti-mode. Once it went to atti mode the drone became unresponsive because it changed modes without any warning. When I tried to correct the position the controls were unresponsive to any avoidance movements attempted and the drone continued to drift into a cliff and dropped on the ground into a shallow water hole. Fortunately I found the drone back, but the drone is in critical damage now. Due to the fact that it switched automatically without returning home after losing signal, control and any type of avoidance action was near impossible due to being unresponsive causing it to crash.
My questions are why is there no manual switch to atti mode? Why did it not automatically return to home if it loses signal? Why were the controls unresponsive?
Surely this is a software defect that DJI should cover!? I have requested to be escalated to a higher department for further explanation.

DJI's response to my questions:
"There is no manual switch to atti mode by default. The drone was manufactured to do so. When there is no GPS signal or poor, it will be switched into such mode automatically. The premise of the drone returns to home is good GPS signal. And in your case, it is not. The feature of the drone in such situation is that it will drift and does not hover properly. The flight records do not show the information of the command.

We respect your choice to find the higher department but we are deeply sorry all we help customer based on result of the data analysis. It is weekends now and they are not available. Hope it is understood."

So because it's weekend I won't get an answer?? Why not do it on Monday? Really DJI?
More importantly, by their reply they are admitting that it's manufactured to crash if it has no gps by automatically switching to atti mode and unable to connect to the remote?
They are saying that the flight records are not showing RC commands - I was not just standing there and watched it fly into a cliff with people underneath it!
I have tried to get it away from the cliff but the remote was unresponsive. The fact that flight records don't show a command proves that it didn't register my movements on the RC.

I am sorry for the lenghtly post, but I am hoping to understand why DJI is not covering their manufacture faults and brushing their responsibility off by putting it on pilot error?
I can post the flight records on here if you want for further analysis?

I am super disappointed in their customer service and won't be buying anything from DJI anytime soon.

Thank you so much for your insight.







2018-3-3
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mlamb
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How could you expect it to return home without a GPS signal?  It didn't even have GPS when you took off, there is no way it knows where home is.  Could you find your way out of my house with a blindfold on, without touching any walls?
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A CW
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"I took off in opti-mode"
That's why you crashed.

2018-3-3
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Macdugel
First Officer
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You gotta be patient and let your Mavic find a strong GPS signal prior to take-off.  Never let it off the ground without it.
Unfortunately this looks to be more user error than aircraft, I'm sorry you crashed!  Thats never a fun feeling!
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Nicolezehn
Indonesia
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I hear what you are saying but even with a blindfold on I wouldn't just uncontrollably hit myself against the wall.
I took off with weak gps and regardless of gps or no gps it shouldn't just fly into a wall without being responsive to commands?
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Nicolezehn
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mlamb Posted at 2018-3-3 05:29
How could you expect it to return home without a GPS signal?  It didn't even have GPS when you took off, there is no way it knows where home is.  Could you find your way out of my house with a blindfold on, without touching any walls?


I hear what you are saying but even with a blindfold on I wouldn't just uncontrollably hit myself against the wall.
I took off with weak gps and regardless of gps or no gps it shouldn't just fly into a wall without being responsive to commands?
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Nicolezehn
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A CW Posted at 2018-3-3 05:39
"I took off in opti-mode"
That's why you crashed.

I have taken off in opti mode before, but that should not cause a crash?
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Macdugel
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But you crashed in ATTI mode.  Do you understand the premise of ATTI mode?
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Nicolezehn
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Macdugel Posted at 2018-3-3 05:43
You gotta be patient and let your Mavic find a strong GPS signal prior to take-off.  Never let it off the ground without it.
Unfortunately this looks to be more user error than aircraft, I'm sorry you crashed!  Thats never a fun feeling!

Thanks for your sympathy. It's not a fun feeling at all.
But why is it user error if the aircraft didn't response to my commands?
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A CW
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Nicolezehn Posted at 2018-3-3 05:53
I have taken off in opti mode before, but that should not cause a crash?

Opti mode relates to the downward vision positioning system to stabilise the drone which only detects the ground at altitudes of up to 10m subject to correct lighting conditions and the environment it is flying over - full details are listed in the manual.
If GPS is not set prior to take off and OPTI mode is lost the drone will auto switch to ATTI mode - using only the internal barometer.
For the most stable flight you need to wait for the home point to be set on the map and have a good 12 satellites received by the drone. If you do not know how to fly the drone in ATTI mode then yes, it is highly likely you will crash, as you did.  
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Macdugel
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Nicolezehn Posted at 2018-3-3 05:59
Thanks for your sympathy. It's not a fun feeling at all.
But why is it user error if the aircraft didn't response to my commands?

ATTI mode is an automatic setting currently - meaning this mode turns on when there is NO or super low GPS signal.  In ATTI mode it will only hold its position altitude-wise but that is it.  Your forward sensors and bottom sensor simply do not fire in this mode.  So if it windy, your Mavic will be taken with the wind - no matter the strength because there is no GPS to tell it to stay in its current position.  

There is no automatic braking when you let off the stick with a Mavic in ATTI mode as there is with a Mavic with GPS.  Controls in ATTI mode are deceiving because you have to manually do the braking in the direction you are headed.
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Nicolezehn
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Macdugel Posted at 2018-3-3 05:59
But you crashed in ATTI mode.  Do you understand the premise of ATTI mode?

yes I thought I did... but perhaps I'm missing something?
I didn't think atti mode was making the rc unresponsive?
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Aardvark
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Nicolezehn Posted at 2018-3-3 06:06
yes I thought I did... but perhaps I'm missing something?
I didn't think atti mode was making the rc unresponsive?

Upload your flight record to Phantom help, instructions are on that link as to where to find files and upload them. From that we should know exactly what the cause was.
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Nicolezehn
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Aardvark Posted at 2018-3-3 06:12
Upload your flight record to Phantom help, instructions are on that link as to where to find files and upload them. From that we should know exactly what the cause was.

Thanks. I have uploaded the file.
http://www.phantomhelp.com/logviewer/RFK5O9SQMREUNYDH8O19/
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MFPullen
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Nicolezehn Posted at 2018-3-3 06:06
yes I thought I did... but perhaps I'm missing something?
I didn't think atti mode was making the rc unresponsive?

Reading through this entire thread leaves me with several questions, the first being your hours of experience with drones and then this drone in particular.  I dont say this to be rude but some of your statements appear that you do not understand some of the basic premises of the operatins of DJI drones.  Especially how GPS functions are utilized, return to home and  ATTI mode function in regard to flight operations

Just because the drone drops automatically into ATTI mod does not make it defective.  This might be a ‘poor design’ feature but it is understood by all experienced DJI pilots.  Flying in ATTI mode is very difficult as some youtube videos demonstrate.  This is where your experience level comes in.  If your drone automatically drops into ATTI and you arent prepared and trained to handle that circumstance I could understand why you might think it was disregarding your stick commands.  Until someone can make a review of your flight logs and outline what stick commands you put in, it is impossible to say what you did or didnt do.

I understand your frustration.  But in most situations when the flight logs are reviewed we find pilot.experince error.  Occasionally it is drone error....but those are few and far betweem.
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mlamb
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The mavic with GPS is really like a fly by wire system.  A computer on the drone takes your input from the sticks, looks at the GPS data to see how much its drifting, and combines it together to make it go where you want to go.  If you take away the GPS part of it by not having a GPS lock, it's going to fly like a $50 drone from a hobby shop.  You will have to play the part of the drone computer yourself.
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HenryHM
Second Officer
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Sorry to hear about your loss!! hope DJI will help you.. do you have care refresh?
2018-3-3
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mlamb
lvl.4
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Check out this post...  https://forum.dji.com/thread-114725-1-1.html

You can't learn enough about these things...  They are too easy to fly in perfect conditions that you can get over confident with your abilities in less than perfect conditions.
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Nicolezehn
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MFPullen Posted at 2018-3-3 06:20
Reading through this entire thread leaves me with several questions, the first being your hours of experience with drones and then this drone in particular.  I dont say this to be rude but some of your statements appear that you do not understand some of the basic premises of the operatins of DJI drones.  Especially how GPS functions are utilized, return to home and  ATTI mode function in regard to flight operations

Just because the drone drops automatically into ATTI mod does not make it defective.  This might be a ‘poor design’ feature but it is understood by all experienced DJI pilots.  Flying in ATTI mode is very difficult as some youtube videos demonstrate.  This is where your experience level comes in.  If your drone automatically drops into ATTI and you arent prepared and trained to handle that circumstance I could understand why you might think it was disregarding your stick commands.  Until someone can make a review of your flight logs and outline what stick commands you put in, it is impossible to say what you did or didnt do.

Thank you for your insight.
I am not that experienced, but also not careless. That's why I am asking for second opinions as the response from DJI is rather rude and not helpful at all.
I will take it on the chin if it is properly explained why it is user error in my case.
I don't understand why the poor design feature (if that is the case) is an acceptable feature if it doesn't respond to stick commands and a crash is then inevitable?
It would be great if I can get a second opinion on my flight records, please.
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Nicolezehn
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HenryHM Posted at 2018-3-3 06:47
Sorry to hear about your loss!! hope DJI will help you.. do you have care refresh?

Thank you. No, unfortunately I don't have care refresh...
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MFPullen
Second Officer
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I hope this doesnt sour you on flying DJI drones. Bleieve me I was right where you are about 18  months ago.  Its hard to take things kinds of learned wisdom when it costs you so much money.  
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Paul_IA
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One thing to remember is to try to learn from every mistake that we make. We're human, we all screw up from time to time and nobody should chastise you for that. But one of the things I see over and over with new pilots, is that they don't take the time to learn about their aircraft before they get into trouble. When I started out, I flew in a wide open field and honestly didn't fly more than 100 feet from the home point for many flights as I got used to the drone. I also spent many hours watching videos and reading tutorials before I built up the courage (and skill) to do more advanced things.

The MP is a wonder of marvel in my opinion. As a software designer with 35 years of experience in real time systems, I'm constantly amazed that the MP can do what it does and do it in real time. But it's not foolproof and like every other piece of machinery, it has it limitations. You, as the pilot, have to know what those limitations are and avoid them or at least know how to deal with them when they come up. So what you need to take away from this experience are several points:

1) The MP is a wonderful drone, but it requires full GPS lock to do most of it's "magic". If you fly in areas without GPS, the MP is no better than it's pilot.
2) You need to develop a preflight routine that involves powering up the drone and going through a checklist to make sure it's ready to fly. This is no different from flying a real plane and it's for the same reason.
3) Don't fault DJI or MP for your mistakes. If you lurk here long enough, you start to see the same thing over and over again. Most (99%) of the raging in this forum is pilot error, not the MP being defective.

Lastly, remember we all started where you are now and more than a few of us have lost drones due to our own stupidity. Anyone who chastise you for making mistakes and trying to learn from them should probably be avoided.
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lomo2017
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Nicolezehn Posted at 2018-3-3 08:44
Thank you for your insight.
I am not that experienced, but also not careless. That's why I am asking for second opinions as the response from DJI is rather rude and not helpful at all.
I will take it on the chin if it is properly explained why it is user error in my case.

Your biggest mistake is taking off when you had 0 satellites.  That is considered careless or unexperienced. Like others been replying to you that in atti mode it may look like the craft is not responding to your sticks movements.
And if you did loose connection between the craft and the RC, it is impossible for the craft to fly home automatically since home point was never been recorded.
This all generated from you took off with 0 satellites.
Sorry for you lost. I know how it feels.
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Nicolezehn
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lomo2017 Posted at 2018-3-3 09:26
Your biggest mistake is taking off when you had 0 satellites.  That is considered careless or unexperienced. Like others been replying to you that in atti mode it may look like the craft is not responding to your sticks movements.
And if you did loose connection between the craft and the RC, it is impossible for the craft to fly home automatically since home point was never been recorded.
This all generated from you took off with 0 satellites.

Yes, I am trying to learn from this.
It that an analysis from my flight records? I have a quick look as well and I'm not sure if I'm reading it correctly, it went automatically to atti-mode at 36 seconds, but the drone crashed at 25 seconds (I know this from the last video it recorded before the crash). Are the stick movements also not responsive in P-GPS mode (is that same as Opti-mode) and is the drone not supposed to hold position in that mode?
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lomo2017
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Nicolezehn Posted at 2018-3-3 17:17
Yes, I am trying to learn from this.
It that an analysis from my flight records? I have a quick look as well and I'm not sure if I'm reading it correctly, it went automatically to atti-mode at 36 seconds, but the drone crashed at 25 seconds (I know this from the last video it recorded before the crash). Are the stick movements also not responsive in P-GPS mode (is that same as Opti-mode) and is the drone not supposed to hold position in that mode?

At about 7 sec you received a warning with weak GPS signal. That is when you should just land the drone and find a place with more satellites and stronger signal, despite that you shouldn't take off at all.
In P-mode (position mode) the craft will hover if it's connected to enough satellites with strong signal. In your case you didn't have enough satellites connected and you got the warning at 7 sec.
In opti-mode the craft will use its downward camera to hover in place and will only work well if you are low to the ground (within 10 ft) and sufficient light. Was already explained to you. It depends also on the surface. Won't work well either if you have a flat (no pattern) or shiny surfaces. When the craft went down the cliff, unfortunately it descended into a water where the downwards facing camera could not detect the water and went right into it. Something else you should know about flying close to water. Other wise it would've kept above ground about couple feet.
And without gps signal (atti-mode) the craft will drift away with the wind and it won't brake automatically if you let go the sticks.
Was this the first time you flew? You should really familiar yourself with the atti and opti modes.
Reading in this forum will teach you a lot.
How bad is the damage on your drone?


















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Nicolezehn
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lomo2017 Posted at 2018-3-3 17:49
At about 7 sec you received a warning with weak GPS signal. That is when you should just land the drone and find a place with more satellites and stronger signal, despite that you shouldn't take off at all.
In P-mode (position mode) the craft will hover if it's connected to enough satellites with strong signal. In your case you didn't have enough satellites connected and you got the warning at 7 sec.
In opti-mode the craft will use its downward camera to hover in place and will only work well if you are low to the ground (within 10 ft) and sufficient light. Was already explained to you. It depends also on the surface. Won't work well either if you have a flat (no pattern) or shiny surfaces. When the craft went down the cliff, unfortunately it descended into a water where the downwards facing camera could not detect the water and went right into it. Something else you should know about flying close to water. Other wise it would've kept above ground about couple feet.

No it was not the first time I flew. And I have flown close to water before. I did try to get the drone back when I saw the warning.
What I don't understand is that atti mode came up after it already drifted and crashed. Everything you said about opti and p mode, it shouldn't have drifted and be unresponsive in the first place?
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drone_user
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looks like you only had 4 satellites lock in    then at

0m 7.8s  msg said " Weak GPS signal. Positional accuracy may be compromised. Please fly with caution "  

you crashed at 25 secs? cause at 0m 51.2s  Altitude was at -1.3ft  which makes sense if it was going down a "hole" I am surprised you had signal then. how far away from the hole were you?


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Nicolezehn
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drone_user Posted at 2018-3-3 18:27
looks like you only had 4 satellites lock in    then at

0m 7.8s  msg said " Weak GPS signal. Positional accuracy may be compromised. Please fly with caution "  


It wasn't a hole...so I was standing halfway the cliff (on an open platform) with open ocean view in front of me.
I started the engine, it hovers in place and I only moved the drone a little forward away from the cliff and immediately after I saw the warning it started drifting (so at 7.8 secs and still in P mode) to the left and that's when I tried to get it back but it wasn't responsive. Is the drone supposed to drift in p mode as well?
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Ivanski
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Nicolezehn Posted at 2018-3-3 18:45
It wasn't a hole...so I was standing halfway the cliff (on an open platform) with open ocean view in front of me.
I started the engine, it hovers in place and I only moved the drone a little forward away from the cliff and immediately after I saw the warning it started drifting (so at 7.8 secs and still in P mode) to the left and that's when I tried to get it back but it wasn't responsive. Is the drone supposed to drift in p mode as well?

I understand what you are feeling. I almost lost my drone a few days ago.
But luckily I retrieved it successfully.

I think your drone drifted because there were only 4 satellites to lock your
drone in a position. I never fly my drone in such condition so I am not sure.
Hope someone with more experience can tell you about that.
But I think only 4 satellites cannot hold your drone in position.

People in here usually suggest take off the drone when you see at least 10, or even 12 satellites.
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drone_user
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Nicolezehn Posted at 2018-3-3 18:45
It wasn't a hole...so I was standing halfway the cliff (on an open platform) with open ocean view in front of me.
I started the engine, it hovers in place and I only moved the drone a little forward away from the cliff and immediately after I saw the warning it started drifting (so at 7.8 secs and still in P mode) to the left and that's when I tried to get it back but it wasn't responsive. Is the drone supposed to drift in p mode as well?

ohhh ok how windy was it that day?  
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Nicolezehn
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drone_user Posted at 2018-3-3 19:27
ohhh ok how windy was it that day?

It wasn't windy as it was protected by the cliff.
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DJI Mindy
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Hi Nicole, we are so sorry for your loss, the aircraft will automatically switch into Atti Mode when GPS signal is weak, in this mode, the aircraft will only be able to stabilize its attitude, it cannot position or auto-brake and is easily affected by its surroundings, which may result in horizontal shifting. Appreciate your understanding. GTScreenshot_20180304_112300.png
Please leave us with the case number so that we can check more details of the data analysis, thank you.
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drone_user
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Nicolezehn Posted at 2018-3-3 19:44
It wasn't windy as it was protected by the cliff.

ok but at 4 sats for a reading that is very low
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Nicolezehn
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DJI Mindy Posted at 2018-3-3 19:48
Hi Nicole, we are so sorry for your loss, the aircraft will automatically switch into Atti Mode when GPS signal is weak, in this mode, the aircraft will only be able to stabilize its attitude, it cannot position or auto-brake and is easily affected by its surroundings, which may result in horizontal shifting. Appreciate your understanding.[view_image]
Please leave us with the case number so that we can check more details of the data analysis, thank you.

Thank you for replying and for taking a closer look at my case. #991270
Please also take into consideration that the drone crashed in P mode (0.25 secs) and not in Atti mode as everyone is suggesting. I would appreciate an detailed explanation and reason why it didn't register my commands and it crashed in p mode?

Thank you
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lomo2017
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Nicolezehn Posted at 2018-3-3 18:45
It wasn't a hole...so I was standing halfway the cliff (on an open platform) with open ocean view in front of me.
I started the engine, it hovers in place and I only moved the drone a little forward away from the cliff and immediately after I saw the warning it started drifting (so at 7.8 secs and still in P mode) to the left and that's when I tried to get it back but it wasn't responsive. Is the drone supposed to drift in p mode as well?

Looking at your log again this is my opinion.
With 4 sat only the craft was in P-mode but yet not enough signal to keep it self in position.
It was relying more on the downward sensor to position itself.
When you moved the craft away the VPS altitude became to high where than it can't keep track of its positioned.
The GPS signal was always weak, you can tell that distance wasn't recorded at all.
Can you maybe load a video of your map log?
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Nicolezehn
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lomo2017 Posted at 2018-3-3 20:36
Looking at your log again this is my opinion.
With 4 sat only the craft was in P-mode but yet not enough signal to keep it self in position.
It was relying more on the downward sensor to position itself.

i'm trying to upload it in this reply but it doesn't seem to work. Is there a link that I can use?
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lomo2017
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Nicolezehn Posted at 2018-3-3 21:04
i'm trying to upload it in this reply but it doesn't seem to work. Is there a link that I can use?

Not sure how to do it. Haven't uploaded one myself yet.
Maybe some one else can tell us.
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LoSBoL
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Macdugel Posted at 2018-3-3 06:06
ATTI mode is an automatic setting currently - meaning this mode turns on when there is NO or super low GPS signal.  In ATTI mode it will only hold its position altitude-wise but that is it.  Your forward sensors and bottom sensor simply do not fire in this mode.  So if it windy, your Mavic will be taken with the wind - no matter the strength because there is no GPS to tell it to stay in its current position.  

There is no automatic braking when you let off the stick with a Mavic in ATTI mode as there is with a Mavic with GPS.  Controls in ATTI mode are deceiving because you have to manually do the braking in the direction you are headed.

Thank you for sharing this, I couldn't get my head around why ATTI mode would be so difficult to control. But no auto brakeing explains it all. Totally missed that when reading the Manual.
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Macdugel
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LoSBoL Posted at 2018-3-4 05:31
Thank you for sharing this, I couldn't get my head around why ATTI mode would be so difficult to control. But no auto brakeing explains it all. Totally missed that when reading the Manual.

Absolutely!  It's good to know especially getting into situations where it might get tight.  Some experienced pilots like the mode for smooth shots, but I think you can achieve the same thing in cinematic mode safer.
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Nicolezehn
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lomo2017 Posted at 2018-3-3 21:11
Not sure how to do it. Haven't uploaded one myself yet.
Maybe some one else can tell us.

This is the link to my google drive, hope you can now see the video (and the rest of the data).
https://drive.google.com/drive/f ... 4aCcWww?usp=sharing
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