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Police lose it over Drone
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4370 78 2018-3-13
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hallmark007
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2018-3-13
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M2Wair
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The guys didn't help themselves and identify themselves to police officers when requested to do so, so go figure the police offers arrested them. That having been said they didn't break any laws, so why stop them!

2018-3-13
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This is crazy




Johnathan Smith
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2018-3-13
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Woe
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I totally agree M2Wair
2018-3-13
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WebParrot
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Thanks 007.  I'm a cyclist and it reminds me of a time our group was stopped while riding on a country road.  There were 12 of us, there was no traffic, for the most part riding two abreast.  All of us wear helmet mirrors and break to single file when cars come from either direction.  

A county squad car with flashing lights approached oncoming and pulled in front of the lead rider.  (It was far enough ahead so that no one was injured-plenty of time to stop.)  The officer quickly got out of his car and raised his hands in the air for us to stop.  Everyone did.  All of our group rides have a ride leader who moved to the front to see what was going on.  The officer wanted ID without indicating a reason.  Our leader had dog tags (medical id's that we wear for emergencies), but the officer wanted something "official."  Eventually we learned that a local resident contacted the Sherrif compaining about cyclist not obeying the rules and blocking the road.  While he couldn't verify it was us, he claimed it was reasonable to assume it WAS us because we were on the road!!!  All of us carry a card that contains cycling relevant statutes showing the specific rules we must follow as vehicles...blah blah blah.  We shared that it wasn't illegal to ride where we were, how we were, when we were.  

After 20 minutes another squad arrived, now blocking the road completely.  It had a three-striped officer who apologized and sent us on our way.  

On the face, while this may not seem relevant. from it I've learned the value of knowing your rights and carrying with me information that makes it clear that I'm in the clear.  I do the same when flying.  I have my FAA information printed on a small card, kept in my pocket (which I can hand to someone while maintaining control of my aircraft).  Larger printed copies are with my gear.  I've included information about privacy, private property, etc. trying to anticipate any discussions that may take place.  I encourage others to post similar ideas here.
2018-3-13
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Bob Brown
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The officers in this video broke the law folks. Hopefully the NYPD learn the law before trying to enforce it?!?!
Since the suspects broke no laws the stop and demand for ID was unlawful. If they sue the NYPD they may get compensation or even a box of cookies. Justice will most likely not prevail in this case... since NYPD are apparently above the law; even if they do not know what the law is. ;)

Stop and Indentify laws vary from state to state.
"In 12 states (Alabama, Delaware, Illinois, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New York, North Dakota, Rhode Island, Utah, Wisconsin), police "may demand" identifying information. Of note, though, in New Hampshire for example (RSA 594:2), statutory language authorizing a 'demand' for identity does not establish a legal requirement to provide documentation of identity (ID), or even a requirement to respond in the first place. Further, a law enforcement officer is authorized to make such 'demand' only of individuals for "whom he has reason to suspect is committing, has committed or is about to commit a crime."

Source
2018-3-13
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hallmark007
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Bob Brown Posted at 2018-3-13 06:07
The officers in this video broke the law folks. Hopefully the NYPD learn the law before trying to enforce it?!?!
Since the suspects broke no laws the stop and demand for ID was unlawful. If they sue the NYPD they may get compensation or even a box of cookies. Justice will most likely not prevail in this case... since NYPD are apparently above the law; even if they do not know what the law is. ;)

I suppose much of this incident was caused by ignorance of the law and all of what happened could have been averted if the police knew the law.
Complaint by property owner to police , should have been acknowledged but reference to the law should have been quoted that flying a drone over your property is not illegal and police could not follow up on this matter.
This would have been the end of this, but my thinking is the police were not aware of FAA rules for flying drones and I think partly because of people’s prejudice against drones the police tried to exert pressure on those guys to first get information as to why they were flying the drone (None of their business) so they then tried to get personal information on each of those who were pulled over .
This needed someone in authority at the scene to stand up and apologise for pulling these guys over , but I think valor got the better of the officers and they just didn’t want to lose face, so they continued the charade in both wasting tax payers dollars and good law knowledgeable people’s time.

If we misread the blueprint of our life, we need not be ashamed of backtracking on our chosen options. Admitting to mistakes may make us human and maybe great again.
2018-3-13
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Bigplumbs
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Only in America !!!!!
2018-3-13
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WebParrot
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hallmark007 Posted at 2018-3-13 06:49
I suppose much of this incident was caused by ignorance of the law and all of what happened could have been averted if the police knew the law.
Complaint by property owner to police , should have been acknowledged but reference to the law should have been quoted that flying a drone over your property is not illegal and police could not follow up on this matter.
This would have been the end of this, but my thinking is the police were not aware of FAA rules for flying drones and I think partly because of people’s prejudice against drones the police tried to exert pressure on those guys to first get information as to why they were flying the drone (None of their business) so they then tried to get personal information on each of those who were pulled over .

I'm in full agreement.  I suspect the private business that initiated the complaint has had prior issues with demonstrators and are on the radar of law enforcement to help them deal with the disagreements (I'm trying to be kind.)  That they had to have their own security force is telling in itself!

While I don't completely agree with the "accused" for not complying, I do think it would have been helpful for them to anticipate problems and be prepared with written verse-and-song about their legal rights.  
2018-3-13
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WebParrot
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You've obviously not traveled to other countries!  I would expect this in some other countries.
2018-3-13
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WebParrot
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hallmark007 Posted at 2018-3-13 06:49
I suppose much of this incident was caused by ignorance of the law and all of what happened could have been averted if the police knew the law.
Complaint by property owner to police , should have been acknowledged but reference to the law should have been quoted that flying a drone over your property is not illegal and police could not follow up on this matter.
This would have been the end of this, but my thinking is the police were not aware of FAA rules for flying drones and I think partly because of people’s prejudice against drones the police tried to exert pressure on those guys to first get information as to why they were flying the drone (None of their business) so they then tried to get personal information on each of those who were pulled over .

I'm in full agreement.  I suspect the private business that initiated the complaint has had prior issues with demonstrators and are on the radar of law enforcement to help them deal with the disagreements (I'm trying to be kind.)  That they had to have their own security force is telling in itself!

While I don't completely agree with the "accused" for not complying, I do think it would have been helpful for them to anticipate problems and be prepared with written verse-and-song about their legal rights.  
2018-3-13
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Bigplumbs
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WebParrot Posted at 2018-3-13 07:34
You've obviously not traveled to other countries!  I would expect this in some other countries.

You would be very wrong there. Been to approx. 20 other countries but not the US
2018-3-13
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I don't think this was about the drone at all. It was about the people flying it. The more people use drones for political causes, or spying on people, the more restrictions will be placed on everyone.
2018-3-13
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Datadogie
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Was there any information about yourselves passed to the security guards. If so would this not be illegal.
2018-3-13
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hallmark007
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Datadogie Posted at 2018-3-13 11:57
Was there any information about yourselves passed to the security guards. If so would this not be illegal.

Well first off I wasn’t involved picked this up on YT , it looked like some information may have been passed on but can’t be sure.
2018-3-13
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Montfrooij
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I try and stay away from any discussion with policemen.
They are just doing their job.
Also remember they risk their lives for US doing that. (not now, but on other occasions).
I don't always agree with everything, but always try and be cooperative.
2018-3-13
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Shakeel
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The little piggy was being a moron because you didn’t get on your knees and kiss his behind.... I can’t understand  the stigma around flying drones in your country ;s
2018-3-13
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A CW
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I've seen this before on YT - they do this to prove law enforcement incompetence by deliberately provoking police officers with their drones. On another video a pilot was asked to land and give his ID by a US police officer, he refused then the Sergeant came over and ripped his subordinates to shreds and apologised to the drone pilot advising that his officers are 'still learning'. It is clear that there are many officers with a lot to learn but I don't think this is an isolated case in just the US. There are drone pilots who clearly don't know the rules either
2018-3-13
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Wachtberger
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As much as I agree with previous assessments here above about wrong and uninformed police behaviour, I also can't help having the impression that this video was somewhat staged/provoked by its authors. But thank you very much for sharing it hallmark007!
2018-3-13
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hallmark007
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Wachtberger Posted at 2018-3-13 15:45
As much as I agree with previous assessments here above about wrong and uninformed police behaviour, I also can't help having the impression that this video was somewhat staged/provoked by its authors. But thank you very much for sharing it hallmark007!

Yes it could be, I know here in Ireland if you play ball with the cops you always get a fair deal and a fair hearing just the way it is here, respect begets respect.
2018-3-13
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Montfrooij Posted at 2018-3-13 12:01
I try and stay away from any discussion with policemen.
They are just doing their job.
Also remember they risk their lives for US doing that. (not now, but on other occasions).

Thats the key with dealing with the police, be nice and do as they ask and there will be no problems, there are always a few jerks out there that don't want to cooperate.
2018-3-13
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StanfordWebbie
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They blew it from step one.  When the cop asked for ID, they should have provided it.  Until those folks are ready to strap on a gun every day in order to go to work, they damn well ought to recognize that those cops will very likely have more than one event in their lives where a stranger without warning or reason will try to kill them.  Given that daily threat, give the cops what they need to safely do their jobs.
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Mavic Ace
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He’s driving a vehicle on public roads which requires a driver’s license. When a cop asks you for it you must provide it. These people are assholes and deserves to go to jail. The cops were very polite and professional.  
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Mavic Ace
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Shakeel Posted at 2018-3-13 12:14
The little piggy was being a moron because you didn’t get on your knees and kiss his behind.... I can’t understand  the stigma around flying drones in your country ;s

He was being an ass. If you’re pulled over while driving on a public street you better damn well provide a license. If a stranger is flying a drone with a camera over my property I will want to know who the hell he is too.
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Mavic Ace
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Bob Brown Posted at 2018-3-13 06:07
The officers in this video broke the law folks. Hopefully the NYPD learn the law before trying to enforce it?!?!
Since the suspects broke no laws the stop and demand for ID was unlawful. If they sue the NYPD they may get compensation or even a box of cookies. Justice will most likely not prevail in this case... since NYPD are apparently above the law; even if they do not know what the law is. ;)

He was operating a motor vehicle on a public roadway. He is required to have a driver’s license on him and produce it when an officer asks for it.
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Bigplumbs
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Mavic Ace Posted at 2018-3-13 18:56
He’s driving a vehicle on public roads which requires a driver’s license. When a cop asks you for it you must provide it. These people are assholes and deserves to go to jail. The cops were very polite and professional.

Just what should they go to Jail for if they were not breaking any law
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Montfrooij
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duke123 Posted at 2018-3-13 16:48
Thats the key with dealing with the police, be nice and do as they ask and there will be no problems, there are always a few jerks out there that don't want to cooperate.

Very true.
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Bigplumbs
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StanfordWebbie Posted at 2018-3-13 17:53
They blew it from step one.  When the cop asked for ID, they should have provided it.  Until those folks are ready to strap on a gun every day in order to go to work, they damn well ought to recognize that those cops will very likely have more than one event in their lives where a stranger without warning or reason will try to kill them.  Given that daily threat, give the cops what they need to safely do their jobs.

What the cops need to safely do their job are to get rid of all those guns in America
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Bigplumbs
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Mavic Ace Posted at 2018-3-13 19:00
He was being an ass. If you’re pulled over while driving on a public street you better damn well provide a license. If a stranger is flying a drone with a camera over my property I will want to know who the hell he is too.

Don't the cops (In stupid hats by the way) need a valid reason to pull you over
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hallmark007
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Mavic Ace Posted at 2018-3-13 19:03
He was operating a motor vehicle on a public roadway. He is required to have a driver’s license on him and produce it when an officer asks for it.

I’m not familiar with US law but don’t they need a reason for pulling you over, and I think the point was flying a drone is not a reason unless you were breaking the law.
I agree they could have cleared the matter up pretty quickly by just showing identification instead of trying to embarrass the police.
2018-3-14
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Bob Brown
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Mavic Ace Posted at 2018-3-13 19:03
He was operating a motor vehicle on a public roadway. He is required to have a driver’s license on him and produce it when an officer asks for it.

In the USA they need probable cause or suspicion to do search; in this case no crime could be declared and therefore made the "search" / request for ID invalid. There was no probable cause. On the flip side...In a traffic stop situation; I agree. That's not what this was until an hour into the stop. Lots of unlawful actions by the police that are sworn to protect... I would have some badges and pensions and make an example out of them. I am sure the judge wont like the evidence and if a jury is involved the NYPD and State police will hang.

I also have to note that in my state; Indiana I am required by law to show my ID upon request. We are one of a dozen states in the USA that require this. I do not however have to show them my gun permit. (makes sense right?) I personally choose to comply even if unlawful by the police; I have had a situation where the police acted unlawfully and I chose to cooperate and then educate because I had my wife with me and we were heading out for a nice evening without kids. My non-compliance would have ruined her night. ~ I did however call the Sgt. the next day and express concern for Officer/badge# and asked that he get proper training when handling people that conceal carry guns lawfully.
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Bigplumbs Posted at 2018-3-13 23:16
Don't the cops (In stupid hats by the way) need a valid reason to pull you over

They had one.  The security guard from the park called and reported them.  The cops needed to find out if the pilot had in fact done something wrong.   
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StanfordWebbie Posted at 2018-3-14 07:16
They had one.  The security guard from the park called and reported them.  The cops needed to find out if the pilot had in fact done something wrong.

I am amazed you said that. Are you seriously suggesting that finding out if you have done something wrong is a reason. If that is so anyone can be stopped any time. You need probably cause and the drone flying was not illegal.

By your reasoning if I complain about the horse you are riding or the colour of your shirt you can be stopped. Twoddle I am afraid

As I said before Only in America
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Bigplumbs Posted at 2018-3-14 08:09
I am amazed you said that. Are you seriously suggesting that finding out if you have done something wrong is a reason. If that is so anyone can be stopped any time. You need probably cause and the drone flying was not illegal.

By your reasoning if I complain about the horse you are riding or the colour of your shirt you can be stopped. Twoddle I am afraid

Well, if a law enforcement official - like that park ranger - tells the cops that you did something wrong, then yes, the cops have "probably cause" (in your words).  Now if that original official was wrong to accuse them, they might have cause to go after him.  But those cops were right to stop that car based on the complaint of the park official.  And that jerk in the car gets no sympathy from me.  Go back to what I said about being a cop and not knowing what a stranger that you've stopped might try to do to you.
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Mavic Ace
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hallmark007 Posted at 2018-3-14 02:26
I’m not familiar with US law but don’t they need a reason for pulling you over, and I think the point was flying a drone is not a reason unless you were breaking the law.
I agree they could have cleared the matter up pretty quickly by just showing identification instead of trying to embarrass the police.

Suspicion that a crime was committed is a reason for them to pull you over.  If a security guard says you were trespassing they can pull you over and investigate.  The officer is well within the duties of his job to ask a driver for ID. The officer doesn’t have to tell you why he pulled you over before he has even identified who you are.  He wants the ID so he knows who he is dealing with. He wants to know if you’re a wanted felon or if he has reason to be cautious.  He was just doing his job and the time to argue with the cop is after the fact. Not while he is being professional and simply asking for ID.
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hallmark007
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Mavic Ace Posted at 2018-3-14 12:27
Suspicion that a crime was committed is a reason for them to pull you over.  If a security guard says you were trespassing they can pull you over and investigate.  The officer is well within the duties of his job to ask a driver for ID. The officer doesn’t have to tell you why he pulled you over before he has even identified who you are.  He wants the ID so he knows who he is dealing with. He wants to know if you’re a wanted felon or if he has reason to be cautious.  He was just doing his job and the time to argue with the cop is after the fact. Not while he is being professional and simply asking for ID.

Again I’m not disagreeing with what your saying, but first they weren’t being accused or reported to be trespassing, they were reported to be flying a drone over private property, is this enough to pull them over particularly when no crime has been committed, if this was reported to a police officer who knew the law then the incident of pulling the guys over would never have happened, the police are not required to follow up on calls where no law has been broken, looking at the situation it is clear that a lack of knowledge about the law on the part of police whether this was enough to cause such consternation I suppose is the real debate.
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Mavic Ace
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He was investigating whether or not the law had been broken.  If they were using a drone to spy into buildings where a person would have an expectation of privacy they would be breaking the law.  Who knows what exactly the security guard told them but if a reasonable accusation has been made it's the cops duty to investigate and the first part of that investigation is simply asking for identification.  If the man says he has no ID then he is driving without a license and can be held until he is identified and then fined or given a warning.   He could have come out of this looking like an innocent victim if he truly committed no crime and the security guard was lying or exaggerating but by being a jerk to the cop he just comes off looking like a jerk.
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Bob Brown Posted at 2018-3-14 05:16
In the USA they need probable cause or suspicion to do search; in this case no crime could be declared and therefore made the "search" / request for ID invalid. There was no probable cause. On the flip side...In a traffic stop situation; I agree. That's not what this was until an hour into the stop. Lots of unlawful actions by the police that are sworn to protect... I would have some badges and pensions and make an example out of them. I am sure the judge wont like the evidence and if a jury is involved the NYPD and State police will hang.

I also have to note that in my state; Indiana I am required by law to show my ID upon request. We are one of a dozen states in the USA that require this. I do not however have to show them my gun permit. (makes sense right?) I personally choose to comply even if unlawful by the police; I have had a situation where the police acted unlawfully and I chose to cooperate and then educate because I had my wife with me and we were heading out for a nice evening without kids. My non-compliance would have ruined her night. ~ I did however call the Sgt. the next day and express concern for Officer/badge# and asked that he get proper training when handling people that conceal carry guns lawfully.

It isn't the NYPD. This happened in Wayne County which is on Lake Ontario between Rochester and Syracuse.
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Mavic Ace Posted at 2018-3-14 14:23
He was investigating whether or not the law had been broken.  If they were using a drone to spy into buildings where a person would have an expectation of privacy they would be breaking the law.  Who knows what exactly the security guard told them but if a reasonable accusation has been made it's the cops duty to investigate and the first part of that investigation is simply asking for identification.  If the man says he has no ID then he is driving without a license and can be held until he is identified and then fined or given a warning.   He could have come out of this looking like an innocent victim if he truly committed no crime and the security guard was lying or exaggerating but by being a jerk to the cop he just comes off looking like a jerk.

I agree with the jerk bit,
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Mavic Ace Posted at 2018-3-14 12:27
Suspicion that a crime was committed is a reason for them to pull you over.  If a security guard says you were trespassing they can pull you over and investigate.  The officer is well within the duties of his job to ask a driver for ID. The officer doesn’t have to tell you why he pulled you over before he has even identified who you are.  He wants the ID so he knows who he is dealing with. He wants to know if you’re a wanted felon or if he has reason to be cautious.  He was just doing his job and the time to argue with the cop is after the fact. Not while he is being professional and simply asking for ID.

In the UK Trespass is a Civil action and nothing to do with the Police No Idea if this is the same in the US
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