I live in western Colorado. We have plenty of mountains and canyons. As a newbie I am asking that
if I am taking off with a Mavic Pro from the rim of a canyon looking down into the canyon will this have
any impact on handling the Mavic if I fly down into the canyon? The place I would like to do this has a
near vertical drop of about 500 feet (152 meters). If after I have flown down to near the bottom of
the canyon and press RTH am I correct in assuming the Mavic will rise to the RTH altitude based on the
take off point? I will appreciate any answers and hope to be forgiven if this question has been asked
before. I have not found a similar scenario posted. Thank you again.

Hey Randy, it is recommended to fly in open place to ensure the GPS signal as the drone will enter ATTI mode if the GPS is weak. In ATTI mode, the drone cannot hover or brake which requires high flying skills.
Also, the take-off point will be recorded as 0m, please set a proper RTH altitude to avoid the barriers. Do more practice, you will know more about it.

DJI Susan Posted at 2018-5-13 18:48
Hey Randy, it is recommended to fly in open place to ensure the GPS signal as the drone will enter ATTI mode if the GPS is weak. In ATTI mode, the drone cannot hover or brake which requires high flying skills.
Also, the take-off point will be recorded as 0m, please set a proper RTH altitude to avoid the barriers. Do more practice, you will know more about it.

Hi Susan,

I guess I wasn't specific enough. The canyon is very wide (more than 1000 meters) and very long, about 3 KM. I suppose that qualifies as open space but please correct me if I am wrong.  I am able to park up on the rim of the canyon and mostly would like to know if I can fly down into the canyon. Since I will be dropping 50-80 meters below the take-off point I was wondering if RTH will still go up to the altitude I have set for RTH (80 meters). I assume it will go back from below the take-off point up to the 80 meters above the take-off point to return. Am I correct? There is good GPS even at the canyon floor as I have hiked there before. Thank you for your patience and your help.

RandyK0615 Posted at 2018-5-14 08:10
Hi Susan,

I guess I wasn't specific enough. The canyon is very wide (more than 1000 meters) and very long, about 3 KM. I suppose that qualifies as open space but please correct me if I am wrong.  I am able to park up on the rim of the canyon and mostly would like to know if I can fly down into the canyon. Since I will be dropping 50-80 meters below the take-off point I was wondering if RTH will still go up to the altitude I have set for RTH (80 meters). I assume it will go back from below the take-off point up to the 80 meters above the take-off point to return. Am I correct? There is good GPS even at the canyon floor as I have hiked there before. Thank you for your patience and your help.

I've flown at the top of a mountain.  Perhaps I can help answer.  The altitude you start at is 0 ft.  Even if you are 26,000 feet up.  So when you fly down into the canyon and initiate a RTH, it will rise to whatever altitude you set above the initial home point.  When you are in the canyon, it will register as a negative number.

Lobstah Mobstah Posted at 2018-5-14 08:32
I've flown at the top of a mountain.  Perhaps I can help answer.  The altitude you start at is 0 ft.  Even if you are 26,000 feet up.  So when you fly down into the canyon and initiate a RTH, it will rise to whatever altitude you set above the initial home point.  When you are in the canyon, it will register as a negative number.

Thank you for the reply. Sounds like I won't have to worry about RTH. Thanks again.

RandyK0615 Posted at 2018-5-14 08:33
Thank you for the reply. Sounds like I won't have to worry about RTH. Thanks again.

My pleasure!  Be sure to post some canyon videos!  

An excellent question.  

Lobstah Mobstah Posted at 2018-5-14 08:42
My pleasure!  Be sure to post some canyon videos!

I'll post videos by the weekend. And thank you for your help. Since one of the canyons where I plan to fly from the rim is deeper than 400 feet will this affect the maximum altitude limit that is built into the drone software? For example: I take off from the rim and fly over the canyon then my height AGL will be above the 400' limit but still conforming to flight regs as I am near the canyon wall. I'd hate to drop below 400' AGL while flying in the canyon and then find that it will not rise back up to the rim as it would have to be possibly 600' above the canyon floor.

DJI Susan Posted at 2018-5-13 18:48
Hey Randy, it is recommended to fly in open place to ensure the GPS signal as the drone will enter ATTI mode if the GPS is weak. In ATTI mode, the drone cannot hover or brake which requires high flying skills.
Also, the take-off point will be recorded as 0m, please set a proper RTH altitude to avoid the barriers. Do more practice, you will know more about it.

I hope you don't mind if I re-post my reply to Lostah Mobstah but:

I'll post videos by the weekend. And thank you for your help. Since one of the canyons where I plan to fly from the rim is deeper than 400 feet will this affect the maximum altitude limit that is built into the drone software? For example: I take off from the rim and fly over the canyon then my height AGL will be above the 400' limit but still conforming to flight regs as I am near the canyon wall. I'd hate to drop below 400' AGL while flying in the canyon and then find that it will not rise back up to the rim as it would have to be possibly 600' above the canyon floor. I may post a photograph of the area before I fly there to make more clear what I am asking. Thanks to all of you again!

Will the controller signal be attenuated as it passes through the canyon wall? You will have to lean over and adjust the antena accordingly or risk loss of signal. Think about it.  Also the satalites will be cut off because of the canyon wall you are close to. You might have a good signal in the centre but not enough satalites close to a wall.

I'll avoid using RTH in the canyon - better fly Yourself back, Another point is to make sure You'll have a clear line to the drone in order not to lose connection, and at the end  consider climbing back take more battery than going down - So start return at 60-70% mark
Have a safe and pleasant flight

Watch out for this (pic) plus turbulence at cliff edge and all the other wise advice others have given. RTH will be the least of your concerns and you will be better off returning manually so you can control it in the regions of turbulence and ATTI drift.

don't fly to close to the walls and keep an eye on your gps.
since the horizon wanders up for the drone less and less gps sats may be visible.
be prepared to fly in atti/opti mode if dropping too deep down and sky vision gets more and more obstructed for the aircraft.

The control signal may drop when the aircraft go too deep and the angle too steep below you.

RandyK0615 Posted at 2018-5-15 14:04
I hope you don't mind if I re-post my reply to Lostah Mobstah but:

I'll post videos by the weekend. And thank you for your help. Since one of the canyons where I plan to fly from the rim is deeper than 400 feet will this affect the maximum altitude limit that is built into the drone software? For example: I take off from the rim and fly over the canyon then my height AGL will be above the 400' limit but still conforming to flight regs as I am near the canyon wall. I'd hate to drop below 400' AGL while flying in the canyon and then find that it will not rise back up to the rim as it would have to be possibly 600' above the canyon floor. I may post a photograph of the area before I fly there to make more clear what I am asking. Thanks to all of you again!

That's all right. Personally, I don't think a canyon is a good place for flying practice. As the GPS signal might drop suddenly, you may feel the drone uncontrollable in ATTI. It's nice to see great scenery, but flight safety is the top priority.

DJI Susan Posted at 2018-5-18 01:10
That's all right. Personally, I don't think a canyon is a good place for flying practice. As the GPS signal might drop suddenly, you may feel the drone uncontrollable in ATTI. It's nice to see great scenery, but flight safety is the top priority.

I agree. I first got my pilot's license flying a 182 Cessna in these mountains 30 years ago. Flying the Rocky Mountains has challenges very different from other places. I remember very well when my flight instructor pointed out way back then, "taking off is optional, but landing is mandatory". One must always think about do I actually want to fly here, fly today, or fly in these conditions. Some of the airports in these mountains even prohibit flights of larger planes in the summer when the temperature gets above 85f. Does not happen often but it does. And beyond that, flying a drone has many differences from flying a plane.

I am uploading a photo I took yesterday of the canyon I was referring to. The canyon floor is about 500 feet below the rim (checked with altimeter), I see now that the drone calculates it's altitude from the point of take-off. I was mainly concerned that if I fly from the ledge over the canyon (already have permission from the land owners) that I would immediately be above the 400 feet ceiling and the drone might not be able to rise enough when down in the canyon to get back up to the altitude of the rim. I see now that should not be a problem.

By the way, as a point of interest, the large granite blocks in the photo are in an abandoned quarry from which some of the material for the Washington Monument and Lincoln Memorial was provided. I feel very lucky to have all these beautiful areas so nearby to hike and fly. Thanks for all your help and patience.

Go ahead and enjoy flying in the canyons just keep a close eye on the telemetry...you'll be fine. If it goes into atti-mode, def know your stick movement and steer away from walls. I think atti-mode can be exciting but you need to know how to manage those sticks.

DJI Susan Posted at 2018-5-18 01:10
That's all right. Personally, I don't think a canyon is a good place for flying practice. As the GPS signal might drop suddenly, you may feel the drone uncontrollable in ATTI. It's nice to see great scenery, but flight safety is the top priority.

And here's a photo of another canyon (smaller canyon but not too small) I plan to fly over.

S.D. Pilot Posted at 2018-5-18 07:19
Go ahead and enjoy flying in the canyons just keep a close eye on the telemetry...you'll be fine. If it goes into atti-mode, def know your stick movement and steer away from walls. I think atti-mode can be exciting but you need to know how to manage those sticks.

Thanks, definitely been practicing that in open areas.

I flew down into a canyon last weekend. Under a bridge and power lines a couple hundred feet below me. I kept a eye on the signal and gps and when it started to go wonky I got outta there. That is the lowest I have flown below my take off. It did well but it was not to narrow so that helped. I have only lost signal to the Mavic once. I was 1600' above takeoff but only 20' above the ground below the drone. I was 1.5 miles out and went behind a granite knob and it completely dropped all signal and control. It came back toward home on its own after what seemed like a very long time  which was  maybe a minute. I was able to regain control. It was my fault the camera feed started dropping and I kept going. Don't do that. Turn around instantly.

Look forward to the vid.  

AuroraHunter Posted at 2018-5-18 09:34
I flew down into a canyon last weekend. Under a bridge and power lines a couple hundred feet below me. I kept a eye on the signal and gps and when it started to go wonky I got outta there. That is the lowest I have flown below my take off. It did well but it was not to narrow so that helped. I have only lost signal to the Mavic once. I was 1600' above takeoff but only 20' above the ground below the drone. I was 1.5 miles out and went behind a granite knob and it completely dropped all signal and control. It came back toward home on its own after what seemed like a very long time  which was  maybe a minute. I was able to regain control. It was my fault the camera feed started dropping and I kept going. Don't do that. Turn around instantly.

Waterfall bridge dam and power plant

Nicely done. Thanks for the reply and the info.

A CW Posted at 2018-5-18 09:37
Look forward to the vid.

This video (YouTube link below) is not of the canyon (still too windy here) but of an area on the Uncompahgre Plateau that is east of the canyon. The elevation where the drone took off is about 8100 feet (about 2468 meters). For a brief moment in the video you can see the Grand Mesa and other mountains to the north and west.

Hope to fly the canyons next week. The video was still being published when I posted this so it might be a few minutes before it can be viewed.

RandyK0615 Posted at 2018-5-18 15:40
This video (YouTube link below) is not of the canyon (still too windy here) but of an area on the Uncompahgre Plateau that is east of the canyon. The elevation where the drone took off is about 8100 feet (about 2468 meters). For a brief moment in the video you can see the Grand Mesa and other mountains to the north and west.

Hope to fly the canyons next week. The video was still being published when I posted this so it might be a few minutes before it can be viewed.

Not ready yet, thought it was OK but looked bad when uploaded. Will upload again when fixed.

looking forward to seeing the canyon vids.  sounds exciting

RandyK0615 Posted at 2018-5-18 16:47
Not ready yet, thought it was OK but looked bad when uploaded. Will upload again when fixed.

Aloha Randy,

     Sounds like you will be having a blast flying the canyons.  But one thing you will need very much to be aware of is that if you decide to land at the bottom of a canyon and shut off the motors or the motors shut off on their own due to some other command, the new "Home Point" that determines zero altitude, will be the new launch spot.  If you are more than 1640 feet (500 meters) down in a canyon, you will have to go down and get your bird.  DJI limits all DJI products to a 500 meter altitude above the Home Point.

     Another point is that the FAA regards canyon walls, large trees and mountains, etc. as "structures".  The 400 foot limit is distance from those structures.  If you fly in the middle of a canyon 500 feet above the floor of the canyon and 500 feet or more away from each canyon wall, even though you are still 200 feet (or some random number) below your takeoff point, you are in violation of the FAA regulations.  You would be flying in the manned aircraft zone.  

     Each state also has tourist flight altitudes that differ from the FAA altitude limitations.  If the area you plan to fly in has a 350 foot altitude limit for helicopters, then you will need to accommodate that different altitude limitation.   We recently had a drone - helicopter crash that may have been due to that difference in altitude limitation problem.  Of course the drone bit the dust and the helicopter only got scraped, but it could have been worse.

     Hope this helps!  Have fun!

Aloha and Drone On!

The only problem that I have had in flying with trees in the background, is that when I glance down at the controller, I have problems picking my Mavic out of the background clutter when I look back up.  When that happens, I usually just stop and climb until I have sky behind it and can pick it out.  As others have said, nice and careful.  I've flown in Colorado and I know what you are wanting to film.  Mine was around Ouray and Silverton.  Watch your batteries up there too.  The thinner air will cause the motors to work harder and the batteries will go down faster.  Allow for that when you are out over the canyon.  And Good luck.  

Looks like we agree on many points, one of which being that flying here is more challenging. To add to my learning curve I will be spending the month of July in the state of Oaxaca, Mexico shooting drone video there as well. Most of my time will be on the Pacific coast but some also will be inland in the mountains of the state. Fortunately I have lived there and am fluent in Spanish. Great people, beautiful country, and fascinating scenery throughout the area,

Finally got my first video exported and uploaded to YouTube. Still not good weather here for flying the canyons I want to shoot but the area in the video is nearby. I hope you enjoy and I always welcome comments and constructive criticism.



I very much appreciate all the advice and comments. Quite a great community of people here.

RandyK0615 Posted at 2018-5-18 07:08
I agree. I first got my pilot's license flying a 182 Cessna in these mountains 30 years ago. Flying the Rocky Mountains has challenges very different from other places. I remember very well when my flight instructor pointed out way back then, "taking off is optional, but landing is mandatory". One must always think about do I actually want to fly here, fly today, or fly in these conditions. Some of the airports in these mountains even prohibit flights of larger planes in the summer when the temperature gets above 85f. Does not happen often but it does. And beyond that, flying a drone has many differences from flying a plane.

I am uploading a photo I took yesterday of the canyon I was referring to. The canyon floor is about 500 feet below the rim (checked with altimeter), I see now that the drone calculates it's altitude from the point of take-off. I was mainly concerned that if I fly from the ledge over the canyon (already have permission from the land owners) that I would immediately be above the 400 feet ceiling and the drone might not be able to rise enough when down in the canyon to get back up to the altitude of the rim. I see now that should not be a problem.

You're welcome. We appreciate your clarification. Good luck!
BTW, it's really a beautiful place!

Thanks for the link .      

A CW Posted at 2018-5-21 20:41
Thanks for the link .

You're very welcome.