Please select Into the mobile phone version | Continue to access the computer ver.
Flying in Putney (London Area) Permission Help
648 18 2018-5-14
Uploading and Loding Picture ...(0/1)
o(^-^)o
Drone Motion
lvl.2
United Kingdom
Offline

I have a potential job to go to this week and it's in Putney by the river in London, which has a load of restrictions.

Any ideas on who to contact etc?

I'm CAA licenced and insured.

Thanks, everyone.
2018-5-14
Use props
Nigel_
Captain
Flight distance : 388642 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

Why do you think there are a load of restrictions?  I don't see any on the maps, and there are a number of NOTEM warnings about other people using drones nearby...

You would be in class D airspace under Heathrow control so if you are more than 7Kg then you would need to contact air traffic control.

I guess NATS would be the people to contact, but I can't see that it is necessary for flying a Phantom within the Drone Code.  http://www.nats.aero/nsf/, and more specific: http://www.nats.aero/nsf/rpas.aspx  (read both)

2018-5-14
Use props
Drone Motion
lvl.2
United Kingdom
Offline

Nigel_ Posted at 2018-5-14 04:35
Why do you think there are a load of restrictions?  I don't see any on the maps, and there are a number of NOTEM warnings about other people using drones nearby...

You would be in class D airspace under Heathrow control so if you are more than 7Kg then you would need to contact air traffic control.

Hi there Nigel,

Thank you for the reply.

I've just been informed to complete a Noin Standard Flight (nsf.) This grants permission.

Which site/app did you check to see all that information? I use Drone Assist and it led to all the restrictions in the area.
2018-5-14
Use props
Nigel_
Captain
Flight distance : 388642 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

Drone Motion Posted at 2018-5-14 05:00
Hi there Nigel,

Thank you for the reply.

For the Notem info, including the one you are creating, see: http://notaminfo.com/ukmap

I tend to use http://www.noflydrones.co.uk/ rather than Drone Assist, seems easier to understand.

The CAA website contains:
"Although operators of drones weighing 7 kg or less are not required to have the permission of Air Traffic Control (even when flying within Controlled Airspace or within an ATZ), the Air Navigation Order requires that any person in charge of a small drone:
•        may only fly the aircraft if reasonably satisfied that the flight can safely be made
and
•        must maintain direct, unaided visual contact with the aircraft …for the purpose of avoiding collisions.  Note: The use of normal corrective spectacles is acceptable within the term ‘unaided’
"
https://www.caa.co.uk/Consumers/ ... ircraft-and-drones/

Which makes me think your NSF is not required for a Phantom, although it may be desirable, and will mean you don't need to stick to the Drone Code's 400ft if you want to go higher.

I had a look at Drone Assist, still don't see any restrictions that prevent a Phantom flight, although I hadn't previously seen the heliport info which may be a consideration, and your NSF should keep them away.
2018-5-14
Use props
maplechops
lvl.2
Flight distance : 3169 ft
Offline

Nigel_ Posted at 2018-5-14 05:45
For the Notem info, including the one you are creating, see: http://notaminfo.com/ukmap

I tend to use http://www.noflydrones.co.uk/ rather than Drone Assist, seems easier to understand.

Thanks for posting this. I was going round in circles looking at the permissions and advisory section for this same thing today. I aant to fly about 12 miles from an airport however its still a cat D airspace. I emailed but to no avail. Thankfully youve posted and made my sunny afternoon thanks
2018-5-14
Use props
fansa5b70df2
lvl.2
Flight distance : 89905 ft

United Kingdom
Offline

I doubt you would get anything sorted in time.  I am currently in the process of getting my PfCO, and during the course I do recall mention of the huge amounts of restrictions in London, and from what I remember, you'll have no chance whatsoever of getting the restrictions lifted, even if you submitted OSCs to the CAA (which of course would take months/years).  So to be able to fly this week just isn't going to happen I'm afraid.
2018-5-14
Use props
Drone Motion
lvl.2
United Kingdom
Offline

fansa5b70df2 Posted at 2018-5-14 08:11
I doubt you would get anything sorted in time.  I am currently in the process of getting my PfCO, and during the course I do recall mention of the huge amounts of restrictions in London, and from what I remember, you'll have no chance whatsoever of getting the restrictions lifted, even if you submitted OSCs to the CAA (which of course would take months/years).  So to be able to fly this week just isn't going to happen I'm afraid.

Though from what Nigel said above, flying a Phantom 4 should be fine. Though i wouldn't fly in central London at all, for that, yes you would need the NSF.
2018-5-14
Use props
Nigel_
Captain
Flight distance : 388642 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

fansa5b70df2 Posted at 2018-5-14 08:11
I doubt you would get anything sorted in time.  I am currently in the process of getting my PfCO, and during the course I do recall mention of the huge amounts of restrictions in London, and from what I remember, you'll have no chance whatsoever of getting the restrictions lifted, even if you submitted OSCs to the CAA (which of course would take months/years).  So to be able to fly this week just isn't going to happen I'm afraid.

The restricted areas, R157-R159 are quite small.  Outside those there isn't much issue except that the Heathrow zone is huge, so sticking to the Drone Code is important, no flying up at 1000ft.

For non-commercial flights, most of the restricted area couldn't be flown anyway without permission due to being a populated area so it is really only the central parks that are affected.
2018-5-14
Use props
Drone Motion
lvl.2
United Kingdom
Offline

Nigel_ Posted at 2018-5-14 08:34
The restricted areas, R157-R159 are quite small.  Outside those there isn't much issue except that the Heathrow zone is huge, so sticking to the Drone Code is important, no flying up at 1000ft.

For non-commercial flights, most of the restricted area couldn't be flown anyway without permission due to being a populated area so it is really only the central parks that are affected.

Is there an ATC i need to get in touch with, for the Putney area?  Or is there no need as i'm only flying a P4 (under 7kg?)
2018-5-15
Use props
Nigel_
Captain
Flight distance : 388642 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

Drone Motion Posted at 2018-5-15 01:33
Is there an ATC i need to get in touch with, for the Putney area?  Or is there no need as i'm only flying a P4 (under 7kg?)

The ATC is Heathrow.

My understanding is that since you are under 7Kg there is no requirement to contact ATC.  And I don't believe there are any special rules since you are not in the London restricted zones.  The only unusual thing is that it is Class D airspace which doesn't actually affect you other than that you should take into account that there is a lot of air traffic there so you should keep low enough to avoid it.

If you are flying within the Drone Code limits then ATC is not going to be interested.  If you are going to be flying at 1,500 ft then it would be wise to contact them since airliners do pass over the area at fairly low level and you probably don't have great visibility of them coming, and the Phantom is too slow to safely fly at that height with other air traffic around.  I don't know what they would say, but best to be safe.  Note that the Drone Assist information was to not fly, or if you do then stay within the Drone Code, if you are not taking that advice then you should let people know/get permission.

If you have a NOTEM registered then any pilot flying in the area should be aware of you anyway, helicopters should either avoid the area or fly at low enough speed to be able to see you in time to avoid collisions.  Aeroplanes should stay clear.   I assume the reason there are a fair number of NOTEMs for drone flights displayed on the map in that area is that this is the correct/normal way to ensure safety in that area.

Note: I am not a commercial pilot, so I'm not sure I know all the rules you have to fly under, but since you are having to ask I guess the training wouldn't actually help anyway!  I also don't fly in that area.
2018-5-15
Use props
djmokoia77
lvl.4
Flight distance : 451627 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

Isn't Putney inside EGR160 ?
2018-5-15
Use props
Drone Motion
lvl.2
United Kingdom
Offline

djmokoia77 Posted at 2018-5-15 04:57
Isn't Putney inside EGR160 ?

It's in LHR CTR SFC-2500ALT, if that means anything. I'm not sure.
2018-5-15
Use props
Drone Motion
lvl.2
United Kingdom
Offline

Nigel_ Posted at 2018-5-15 02:51
The ATC is Heathrow.

My understanding is that since you are under 7Kg there is no requirement to contact ATC.  And I don't believe there are any special rules since you are not in the London restricted zones.  The only unusual thing is that it is Class D airspace which doesn't actually affect you other than that you should take into account that there is a lot of air traffic there so you should keep low enough to avoid it.

This is a super SUPER helpful post, thank you once again Nigel, you know your stuff!

What's the best way to post a NOTAM, i've never done that before.
2018-5-15
Use props
djmokoia77
lvl.4
Flight distance : 451627 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

Drone Motion Posted at 2018-5-15 06:38
It's in LHR CTR SFC-2500ALT, if that means anything. I'm not sure.

Yep, that's your Class D airspace but as has been said, under 7kgs you're ok. But if you're in that restricted zone (EGR160) then you need to take extra steps as has been suggested in some of the posts above
2018-5-15
Use props
Nigel_
Captain
Flight distance : 388642 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

djmokoia77 Posted at 2018-5-15 04:57
Isn't Putney inside EGR160 ?

I don't see an EGR160?

If I use http://notaminfo.com/ukmap , turn off the NOTEMs, turn on the "airspace details/default", that really should include everything we need.  But there is no EGR160.  I didn't see it on Drone Assist either.

Is it because it only applies to single engine helicopters?
2018-5-15
Use props
Nigel_
Captain
Flight distance : 388642 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

Drone Motion Posted at 2018-5-15 06:40
This is a super SUPER helpful post, thank you once again Nigel, you know your stuff!

What's the best way to post a NOTAM, i've never done that before.

I assume it is automatic when you fill in your NSF form http://www.nats.aero/nsf/Details.aspx ...
2018-5-15
Use props
Nigel_
Captain
Flight distance : 388642 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

Drone Motion Posted at 2018-5-15 06:38
It's in LHR CTR SFC-2500ALT, if that means anything. I'm not sure.

That is code for London HeathRow Controlled from the SurFaCe up to an ALTitude of 25,000 ft.  (not 2,500ft)
2018-5-15
Use props
djmokoia77
lvl.4
Flight distance : 451627 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

Nigel_ Posted at 2018-5-15 07:16
I don't see an EGR160?

If I use http://notaminfo.com/ukmap , turn off the NOTEMs, turn on the "airspace details/default", that really should include everything we need.  But there is no EGR160.  I didn't see it on Drone Assist either.

hmmm interesting. I was getting it from skydemon light but I couldn't get specifics on why it was restricted.

Some googling and looking at a pdf indicates:

R160 The Specified Area Except with written permission of the CAA ( 01293 567171) a helicopter shall not fly over this area below such a height as would enable it, in
event of an engine failure, to land clear of the area. See ENR 5-1.

Guessing that drones/uavs don't count as helicopters in this instance, so it should be ok
2018-5-15
Use props
Nigel_
Captain
Flight distance : 388642 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

djmokoia77 Posted at 2018-5-15 08:10
hmmm interesting. I was getting it from skydemon light but I couldn't get specifics on why it was restricted.

Some googling and looking at a pdf indicates:

It may not exist any more since I think helicopters have that rule over all populated areas now, that's why police and air ambulance helicopters have to be twin engine these days.   

Of course our drones are quad engine, although loosing one does not enable us to get clear of the area!
2018-5-15
Use props
Advanced
You need to log in before you can reply Login | Register now

Credit Rules