Last night, I put my RC on the charger. A few seconds later, the CS Ultra display turns on and is booting up. I waited til it got to the home screen and then pushed the power button and chose the option to shut down. A minute later, I found the CS Ultra had booted up again. It refuses to stay powered down if the RC is being charged.

Aloha Mark,

     Something like that happened to me a few months ago.  I took out the battery and let the internal battery run itself out.  Then the next day it was off and I put the battery back in and everything has worked properly since.

     I think it has something to do with a reset of the internal battery (by running it down).  The CrystalSky has an internal battery that allows you to swap-out the external battery while the app is running and while the bird is in the air if needed.

     Hope this helps!

Aloha and Drone On!

Cetacean Posted at 2018-6-9 23:16
Aloha Mark,

     Something like that happened to me a few months ago.  I took out the battery and let the internal battery run itself out.  Then the next day it was off and I put the battery back in and everything has worked properly since.

I also noticed that the display starts up when I turn on the RC power. So I think it mistakes charging the RC for being powered on--indeed the RC's LEDs light up when I plug in the charger. Maybe charging powers on the RC?

Mark Weiss Posted at 2018-6-10 11:52
I also noticed that the display starts up when I turn on the RC power. So I think it mistakes charging the RC for being powered on--indeed the RC's LEDs light up when I plug in the charger. Maybe charging powers on the RC?

Aloha Mark,

     It is not supposed to.  Try pulling the battery and leave it over night and see if it resets itself.  Worked for me!

Aloha and Drone On!

Cetacean Posted at 2018-6-10 15:28
Aloha Mark,

     It is not supposed to.  Try pulling the battery and leave it over night and see if it resets itself.  Worked for me!

It seems like the RC powers up when the charging cable is plugged in. So maybe the CS is designed to power on when it detects the RC powering up?

That CS Ultra is so flakey that I am reluctantly reaching the conclusion that I'd better return it before it causes a drone crash. The software hangs when the temperature is above 70 degrees, it does strange things that are unexpected. My camera setttings change all by themselves.. I was accidentally recording 4K 30P today and didn't realize til the end of the flight that it had changed from 4K 24P where I always film at. The still mode changes to JPEG when I last used it in RAW, the Intelligent Flight modes cause the video feed to stop working or to freeze into blocks of grey embossed like images. And today, the drone veered off to the left unexpectedly toward a stand of pine trees while in IFM doing a close range follow of a large, high contrast target. That's pretty much the last straw. I never had ANY of these things happen when I used my Samsung Note 5 to control the drone, even on an 88 degree afternoon. I just couldn't see the screen well enough to fly safely.
In my book, if a piece of gear glitches even once, it's no good for mission critical applications.

Mark Weiss Posted at 2018-6-10 17:05
It seems like the RC powers up when the charging cable is plugged in. So maybe the CS is designed to power on when it detects the RC powering up?

That CS Ultra is so flakey that I am reluctantly reaching the conclusion that I'd better return it before it causes a drone crash. The software hangs when the temperature is above 70 degrees, it does strange things that are unexpected. My camera setttings change all by themselves.. I was accidentally recording 4K 30P today and didn't realize til the end of the flight that it had changed from 4K 24P where I always film at. The still mode changes to JPEG when I last used it in RAW, the Intelligent Flight modes cause the video feed to stop working or to freeze into blocks of grey embossed like images. And today, the drone veered off to the left unexpectedly toward a stand of pine trees while in IFM doing a close range follow of a large, high contrast target. That's pretty much the last straw. I never had ANY of these things happen when I used my Samsung Note 5 to control the drone, even on an 88 degree afternoon. I just couldn't see the screen well enough to fly safely.

Aloha Mark,

     Over here we are dealing with three CrystalSky Ultras and I was able to reset the one that was acting like yours.  One we had to return for a replacement for a mainboard issue.  The original one, the replacement and the reset one are working fine now.  So, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

     You have to reset your CrystalSky Ultra or it will continue to misbehave.  Sure you can return it, DJI will reset it like I told you to do and then return it to you.  Save yourself some time.

     If you tried to take a photo while recording a video, DJI GO 4 only allows JPEG photos.  There is not enough processing power in any current tablets to record a High-Volume photo like a RAW .png photo while recording video.  If you want to record RAW while recording video, you have to stop the video and then take the shot and then restart the video.  JPEG, not problem, same time, but RAW, forget about it.

     When we have a piece of equipment that acts differently than expected, we pay much more attention to it and often unfairly blame problems on that piece of equipment for unrelated issues.  Sure, you can return your CrystalSky Ultra and buy a different tablet, but at some point, you may realize that you should have had some more patience and looked at more detail regarding the problems you are describing.

     My friend with the three CryatalSky Ultras (two for the company he flies for and one of his own) quickly got into a similar mind-set that you are writing about.  He is now happily on board and realizing what a nice product the CrystalSky Ultra is.  

     Your IFM aberrance looks like a Phantom issue to me, not a CrystalSky issue.  It takes much more than a few odd-ball steps and issues before you make a drastic decision like quitting a product completely.  You have to pay attention and analyze everything that happens to generate your problems.  We are not experts with the new DJI equipment, but we are the front line trying to make sure it works as advertised.  But, before we make a claim, we have to be sure that our claim is accurate.

     Hope this helps!

Aloha and Drone On!

Maybe there is more than one type of "reset"? The one I almost tried, but stopped when I read the warnings, was going to restore my CS to factory state. That means all data wiped out. I'm also not sure how that will fix an overheating problem (the CS experiences errors only when the temperature is above 70 degrees. Can you tell me which 'reset' I should be doing? I don't want to restore to factor because then I have to re do everything all over again. If there's a reset that doesn't restore factory image, I can try that. But otherwise, I'm just going back to the out of box state where it won't work with the Phantom v2.0 drone until I update the firmware again.

I know that it is necessary to switch to Still mode on the camera, but the problem is that yesterday, I found all my camera settings reset to JPEG and 4K 30, instead of RAW and 4K 24. And switching to Stills mode while the drone is in flight results in a "DJI Go 4 stopped responding" error and I lose contact with the drone.

As for IFM, so even though the tablet device is running the controls, you're saying that the actual calculations are being done by the drone's computers, not the tablet?

How do I reset my CS without having to revert to factory state? Setting the compass calibration on this thing was a major pain because it took 15 minutes of spinning the tablet before it indicated completion. I thought it wasn't working and tried it many times, then it finally completed. If I set it to factor state, that will roll back the firmware again, yes?

Mark Weiss Posted at 2018-6-11 06:27
Maybe there is more than one type of "reset"? The one I almost tried, but stopped when I read the warnings, was going to restore my CS to factory state. That means all data wiped out. I'm also not sure how that will fix an overheating problem (the CS experiences errors only when the temperature is above 70 degrees. Can you tell me which 'reset' I should be doing? I don't want to restore to factor because then I have to re do everything all over again. If there's a reset that doesn't restore factory image, I can try that. But otherwise, I'm just going back to the out of box state where it won't work with the Phantom v2.0 drone until I update the firmware again.

I know that it is necessary to switch to Still mode on the camera, but the problem is that yesterday, I found all my camera settings reset to JPEG and 4K 30, instead of RAW and 4K 24. And switching to Stills mode while the drone is in flight results in a "DJI Go 4 stopped responding" error and I lose contact with the drone.

Aloha Mark,

     That is not the type of reset I am talking about.  I am talking about resetting the battery and charging system.  Somehow there is a mix-up between the internal battery, external batteries and the charging system in your CrystalSky Ultra.

     Do not reset the CrystalSky firmware.

     If you pull the battery out and leave the CS off all night, when you put a battery in the next day and try to charge the RC, it should not turn on the CS.  That is because the charging / battery system is reset.  You will also be able to turn on the CrystalSky and in its first use the internal battery will be charged.  So be aware that the external battery for that use may go down a little faster because it is charging the internal battery.

     I have never heard of the CrystalSky requiring the CrystalSky compass to be calibrated.  If the charging / battery system reset does not work, you may have to send your CS in to DJI.

     The reason I suggested a test of just the RC and Phantom is to see if the two firmware are working properly.  If there are problems with the CS, then yes, the tablet could be the source of your issue with the problem signals being sent to the Phantom through the RC wireless transmission.

     You need to be sure that the RC wireless transmission, controlled by the RC firmware, and the Phantom flight, controlled by the AC firmware, are working properly.  This can be done in an open space by putting the Phantom through some basic maneuvers similar to the movements choreographed by the IFMs but in this case not controlled by the tablet.  Just the RC and the Phantom in a basic flight.  No live view, no nothing.

     BTW if you click on the "Reply" in the box my post appears in, I will be notified of your reply.  Otherwise, I have to hunt your thread down to see if you responded.

Aloha and Drone On!

Cetacean Posted at 2018-6-11 12:11
Aloha Mark,

     That is not the type of reset I am talking about.  I am talking about resetting the battery and charging system.  Somehow there is a mix-up between the internal battery, external batteries and the charging system in your CrystalSky Ultra.

I will remove the battery from the CS tonight and let it sit overnight and see what happens tomorrow when I reinstall it.

I have no trouble controlling the drone in P-GPS mode and the video feed is clean. It's only when I engage IFM that the video feed freezes and stutters and updates only the top half of the screen. Like watching Youtube on dialup internet during a bad lightning storm.

The other problem is a repeatable hangup of DJI Go 4 when I tap the camera icon to change to stills mode. 50% of the time (and only when the drone is aloft, not on the ground) this will cause the app to stop responding.

I should note that I had zero troubles on the two evenings where the temperature was 59 degrees. All the problems happened with an ambient of 70 degrees or higher.

In contrast, I flew on an 88 degree afternoon with my Note 5 phone controlling the drone and had no software problems. I just couldn't see the screen, so I was pretty much flying blind.

Mark Weiss Posted at 2018-6-11 13:53
I will remove the battery from the CS tonight and let it sit overnight and see what happens tomorrow when I reinstall it.

I have no trouble controlling the drone in P-GPS mode and the video feed is clean. It's only when I engage IFM that the video feed freezes and stutters and updates only the top half of the screen. Like watching Youtube on dialup internet during a bad lightning storm.

Aloha Mark,

     Mahalo for the direct Reply!  Worked great.  My apologies, my CrystalSky High Brightness did start up when the P4 Pro and the RC were started and the CS was plugged in.  I forgot about the plug part.  Again my apologies.  So, I think that the turning on part of the problem might be a design feature.  So, it looks like you were right on the money about that one.  We will see what happens with the battery / charging reset with the external battery.

     Otherwise, we do look like we are making progress.  One of the CS Ultras I mentioned did have a heating problem and I have read about a number of CS Ultra owners having heat issues.  But you are the first I have come across that had an environmental temperature related problem.  Interesting.

     With the many observations you have made, I am beginning to think you have a mainboard issue.  My friend had his repaired and returned in less than two weeks - and we live in Hawai'i!  Give DJI a chance to fix the problem if the battery reset does not work.  There was a lot of demand for the CrystalSky monitors when they first came out so there is bound to be a lot of discussion when things do not work out right.  But when things are working right, the CS Ultra is amazing.  

     The display issues you have with IFM are very worrisome though, especially the half green screen.  That is classic all the way back to the P3 series.  Power distribution is messing with the calculations due to excessive heat issues.  But, your CS should not be having that type of problem.  My friends very hot HDMI module on the mainboard was doing that.  That is what makes me think mainboard.  BTW DJI said mainboard - I am not that smart!  But it does make sense.

     I like your bad lightning storm analogy.  Are you sure you never live in Hawai'i!

     Looking forward to hearing from you tomorrow!

Aloha and Drone On!  

Cetacean Posted at 2018-6-11 22:34
Aloha Mark,

     Mahalo for the direct Reply!  Worked great.  My apologies, my CrystalSky High Brightness did start up when the P4 Pro and the RC were started and the CS was plugged in.  I forgot about the plug part.  Again my apologies.  So, I think that the turning on part of the problem might be a design feature.  So, it looks like you were right on the money about that one.  We will see what happens with the battery / charging reset with the external battery.

LOL I live in Connecticut. And we had four tornadoes pass through my area on May 18.

I tried leaving the battery off the CS Ultra overnight. Plugged it back onto the unit today and put the display on the RC. Plugged the RC into the charger and the CS booted up, even though no LEDs lit on the RC. So I guess this type of 'reset' didn't cure the problem.

Of greater concern is the unreliability in IFM mode. The video starts to break up and then the drone veers off to the left! Video Breakup in IFM

Mark Weiss Posted at 2018-6-12 08:03
LOL I live in Connecticut. And we had four tornadoes pass through my area on May 18.

I tried leaving the battery off the CS Ultra overnight. Plugged it back onto the unit today and put the display on the RC. Plugged the RC into the charger and the CS booted up, even though no LEDs lit on the RC. So I guess this type of 'reset' didn't cure the problem.

Aloha Mark,

     That video indicates a serious problem.  But the problems you indicate are all over the place and the first part of finding solutions is to isolate each problem, verify it and try to solve it if you can.

     Have you done any calibrations?  According to your video, your sensors at least work properly!  That could have really ruined your day.  Sticks can get really messed up if they are not cared for properly between flights.  However, stick problems have a consistency about them that you might notice.  Regular calibration of your sticks and wheels is very helpful.  Fortunately, IMU and Compass systems have a rating system that lets you know if you need to calibrate them (color coded).  My Vision System warned me that I needed to calibrate and sure enough they work now (but I never noticed them not working).  

     In post #9, you indicate that there are no problems in P-GPS mode.  IFM is operated while in P-GPS.  The other two settings (Silver Toggle) beside P-GPS are SPORT Mode and ATTI.  Both of those modes cannot support IFM.  

     There are charging cables and there are data / charging cables.  Some members are concerned that the new USB-C cables are DATA only and do not charge, but I have not verified that yet.  The CS mount comes with its own DATA Cable that plugs into the USB port.  

     Are you saying that with the CS mounted on the RC and plugged in, if you plug in the RC to charge it, that the CS will start up but the RC does not indicate it is charging?  If you unplug the CS from the RC (in the back) and try to charge the RC does it charge then (LED lights streaming)?

     Now you got me worried!  I just started up my RC and the CS came on.  Then I spent 10 minutes trying to do it again and could not.  It turns out that I always start my display up first, then the RC and finally the Phantom.  At all points though, my charging charges, even if the CS comes on.  Whether the CS comes on with the charging is not relevant unless the LED lights do not indicate the RC is charging.  Eventually, I was pretty much able to get the CS to come on with the RC and to not have the CS come on with the RC.  It is all in how you go about it.  But you did freak me out for a moment!

     Each of my paragraphs addresses a specific problem.  So see if you can deal with each of the problems in each of my paragraphs.  Let me know how it goes.

     BTW, remind me not to visit you in May anytime!  And you do not even live in Kansas.

Aloha and Drone On!

Cetacean Posted at 2018-6-12 22:33
Aloha Mark,

     That video indicates a serious problem.  But the problems you indicate are all over the place and the first part of finding solutions is to isolate each problem, verify it and try to solve it if you can.

I posted the video specifically to illustrate the video problems that I'm having with the CS on warmer days. It was over 70 degrees when that happened.

Back two weeks ago when I thought I was having gimbal problems (turned out to be my finger inadvertently pressed FPV mode C2 button) I calibrated the IMU. When I got the CS Ultra, I calibrated its compass, too. All systems appear to be in good working order.

I did lower the sensitivity of the Yaw control, because the default settings were too touchy for cinematic turns.

I used the terminology from the log: P-GPS vs. IFM operation. When in manual, the log labels it P-GPS. When in IFM it is labeled as such. The switch, of course, was in P mode during this incident.

I also found out there are at least three sizes of micro USB cables and that 3/4 of my devices ports didn't fit the supplied DJI cable.

When I tested the CS yesterday, the RC was already fully-charged, so it itself did not show any response (no LEDs lit up) but the CS Ultra booted as soon as I plugged in the charger.

The CS will always boot up when you turn on the RC. That seems like a useful feature when you're planning to fly the drone. But turning on during charging means I either have to sleep the CS or remove it completely from the RC.

The tornadoes of May 18 were highly unusual for our area. The last one I was directly in was in 1965. That's what prompted me to build my next house and make it bomb-resistant (Cold War era) as well as resistant to tornadoes and hurricanes. In the Blizzard of '78, I was thankful for my overbuilt design, again, as rooftops all around me collapsed that morning under the weight of 3-4' of wet snow.

Mark Weiss Posted at 2018-6-13 06:12
I posted the video specifically to illustrate the video problems that I'm having with the CS on warmer days. It was over 70 degrees when that happened.

Back two weeks ago when I thought I was having gimbal problems (turned out to be my finger inadvertently pressed FPV mode C2 button) I calibrated the IMU. When I got the CS Ultra, I calibrated its compass, too. All systems appear to be in good working order.

Aloha Mark,

     When I started my RC that time and the CS booted, it was very much a surprise but mostly because my habit is to turn on the CS first.  As I went through the permutations of what turns on the CS, I figured that if it was a problem, you should get DJI to fix it.  But as a solution for my own operation, I figured I would just disconnect the USB cable in the back of the RC to keep the CS from booting.

     In fact I did disconnect the USB and the next time I started the RC after I had replaced the USB cable, the CS did not boot.  But then after some more tests, I did get the CS to boot again when turning on the RC.  So for a temporary solution while you work through this, just unplug the USB cable to keep it from turning on when you charge the RC.

     BTW, I am a strong believer in earth sheltered dwellings.  I tried to get the City Council to redevelop an over populated valley in Honolulu by working up a mountainside and building earth sheltered houses where the roof of the bottom house is the front yard of the upper house.  Doubles the useable space and has a lot of flexibility for different slope variables.  The never did anything.  With all this upside down climate and weather business, maybe I should try again!

Aloha and Drone On!

Cetacean Posted at 2018-6-14 03:25
Aloha Mark,

     When I started my RC that time and the CS booted, it was very much a surprise but mostly because my habit is to turn on the CS first.  As I went through the permutations of what turns on the CS, I figured that if it was a problem, you should get DJI to fix it.  But as a solution for my own operation, I figured I would just disconnect the USB cable in the back of the RC to keep the CS from booting.

It is actually convenient that the CS powers up when the RC is powered up. The reliable sequence seems to be, start up the drone first, then power up the RC. DJI Go 4 launches automatically and then the drone connects. That part's pretty foolproof now. Used to be with the phone, you had to muck with boot sequence and unplug/replug the USB cable to get the software to connect with the drone. At least this setup starts up properly.

I flew over the Housatonic River last night after my daughter's evening piano recital, and everything worked like textbook flight. It was cool out, so the CS didn't give me any problems.



Subterranean homes are an interesting concept. Being a "prepper", I'm always in favor of having a 'secure home' in case things go south and riots ensue. Many secure homes are built in the ground. The only problem is flooding. Having lost a lot of stuff in the Flood of '55 when I lived in Stamford, my retirement home was built on a mountain top.

Mark Weiss Posted at 2018-6-14 08:08
It is actually convenient that the CS powers up when the RC is powered up. The reliable sequence seems to be, start up the drone first, then power up the RC. DJI Go 4 launches automatically and then the drone connects. That part's pretty foolproof now. Used to be with the phone, you had to muck with boot sequence and unplug/replug the USB cable to get the software to connect with the drone. At least this setup starts up properly.

I flew over the Housatonic River last night after my daughter's evening piano recital, and everything worked like textbook flight. It was cool out, so the CS didn't give me any problems.

Aloha Mark,

     Good to hear that the CS is working properly, at least for now.  You have a good tech line-up.  If you have a new problem, we should try to deal with it individually before we move on to another issue.

     Nice video of New Milford.  Nice camera that P4 Pro V2.0.  Great shots of the river, apparently you had almost no wind at all!  I like the challenge of seeing a river or stream from our video recordings and figuring out which way it is flowing.  With river videos, I am always disappointed when the pilot has to turn back because the battery is running down or there is something else to video.

     Look up Mississippi Mound Builders on the Internet.  The mound builders were subsets of Native American culture that built mounds in flood basins.  Flood basins are great for agriculture but terrible for living.  The structures that they did not want to worry about washing away during a flood were put or built on top of their mounds.  Most often they also had a ritual and/or "Emergency" structure on top of the mound.  

     There are mound building cultures all across North America, so they are not limited to just the Mississippi basin.  Native Americans knew how to live and survive well in even adverse conditions.  Here in Hawai'i, we have a lot of beach houses built on sand.  Hawai'ians would never build houses on sand unless they were not worried that it would wash away someday.

     All our storm and tsunami inundation areas are marked by a sand strata.  Hawai'ians knew that the ocean, Moana, put the sand there when the shore water, Kai, surged in on the land, Aina, during storm surf, nalunalu,  or a tsunami, kai hoʻēʻe.  If the ocean was there once before, it will return and you cannot stop the ocean from taking away what you have not taken away first or intelligently chose not to build on sand.  Smart people the Hawai'ians.

Aloha and Drone On!

Cetacean Posted at 2018-6-14 14:26
Aloha Mark,

     Good to hear that the CS is working properly, at least for now.  You have a good tech line-up.  If you have a new problem, we should try to deal with it individually before we move on to another issue.

As long as I fly in cool weather, no problems with the CS at all.
I'm trying to document every issue so there is a "paper trail" to support any future warranty claims.

That was my 3rd time flying over water. I'm slowly beginning to trust the drone more each time, but am not taking any chances. My wife said "why don't you fly under the bridge?" but I told her I don't know if there are hidden obstacles and I cannot really judge distance and clearance all that well. The farther away, the less depth perception for visually gauging the distance between drone and obstacles. Flying over the bridge, I could see cables stretched across below the side of the bridge. Would not want to fly into those!
I was getting high wind warnings as I flew over the north end of the river, so I took it easy. Oddly, the trees were fluttering but the water was glassy smooth. I don't fly low over water beyond where I can visually see the drone, so my low altitude flights are short.
It seems that New Orleans could learn a thing of two from the Hawaiians. I've always scoffed at people building in hurricane zones and below sea level. Back in '55, we had a flood at our Stamford house. 4' of water in the basement. Comic book collection destroyed. Never again. I moved to one of the highest points in Connecticut after that.

Mark Weiss Posted at 2018-6-14 15:12
As long as I fly in cool weather, no problems with the CS at all.
I'm trying to document every issue so there is a "paper trail" to support any future warranty claims.

Aloha Mark,

     Ahh, a mound person!  Good choice.  Your CS is unusual in that temperature problem.  Keep me posted on how that goes.

Aloha and Drone On!

Cetacean Posted at 2018-6-15 01:01
Aloha Mark,

     Ahh, a mound person!  Good choice.  Your CS is unusual in that temperature problem.  Keep me posted on how that goes.

And we've been having an unusually cool June here in the northeast US. I doubt we'll break 70 F today. Overcast and chilly.