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RTK takes LONG time to initialize
1150 11 2018-6-10
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rfAndy
lvl.4
Flight distance : 394127 ft
United States
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I have noticed that the RTK system initialization time can widely vary before the aircraft is ready to take off with RTK.  I have seen it where the system is ready to go within a matter of minutes.  The other day, it took nearly 45 minutes before the system was ready to go.  Are there a minimum number of satellites required for fast initialization?  What could cause the system to take so long to initialize?  I usually get ground station coordinates right away.  The problem is with the aircraft.  I get no position information - unless I wait...and wait...and wait. I could kill a battery waiting!!  I did a site survey the other day at a steel bridge that I need to take a look at some electrical insulators.  It is parallel to another steel bridge.  I definitely want to use RTK there to head off any compass issues. 45 mins before ready for take-off.  I have heard some say to take off without RTK then switch on while airborne to get good aircraft positioning??  Thoughts?  Comments? Thanks.

2018-6-10
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DJI Mindy
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Flight distance : 7 ft
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RTK has a high demand of the environment, please make sure the flying place is open and free of radio interference, just to verify, does the issue happen in the same place? Have you tried different environment?
2018-6-12
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rfAndy
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Flight distance : 394127 ft
United States
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DJI Mindy Posted at 2018-6-12 01:27
RTK has a high demand of the environment, please make sure the flying place is open and free of radio interference, just to verify, does the issue happen in the same place? Have you tried different environment?

Hi Mindy,

The environment does seem to be a factor. It behaves differently depending where I am. The thing with RTK is that you promote it as being a benefit when operating in high electromagnetic interference environments to allow for proper heading and positioning.

If you’re saying there has to be low radio frequency interference, at what frequencies, as I also inspect radio towers with very high levels of RF energy.

If low radio frequency interference is required, it severely reduces the effectiveness of the RTK feature.

Thanks.

Andy
2018-6-12
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DJI Mindy
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rfAndy Posted at 2018-6-12 02:13
Hi Mindy,

The environment does seem to be a factor. It behaves differently depending where I am. The thing with RTK is that you promote it as being a benefit when operating in high electromagnetic interference environments to allow for proper heading and positioning.

They are not contradictory, RTK can withstand magnetic interference from metal structures, telecom tower and so on, but it is sensitive to the radio interference, please fly in the open area and ensure the antennas are unobstructed.
2018-6-12
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rfAndy
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Flight distance : 394127 ft
United States
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Mindy, if it is meant to fly next to telecom towers, shouldn't it be able to accept high levels of radio frequency energy that are usually emitting from telecom towers????  Can you provide the range of interfering frequencies that are most problematic for the RTK system??  Thank you.
2018-6-13
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Pokey1416
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Flight distance : 120889 ft
United States
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We found that toggling RTK on and off a few times from within the PILOT app helped.
2018-6-15
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djiuser_VZgHaUhOUDCW
lvl.2
Flight distance : 643041 ft
United Kingdom
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I rencently deployed a new 210 RTK on an an oil rig platform and was subsequently removed from the platform  after 5 days due to the RTK system inconsistencies , for example

It would never pick up RTK coordinates with the Z30 installed or with any dual gimbal camera config this was a major blow to the inspection we were trying to carry out
It would link to RTK when it felt like it,sometimes it never linked and I would turn it off at 75% remaining battery from full.
One time I linked to RTK, I started  taking off then it lost RTK causing it to go out of control  and almost slamming into the crane pedestal, I had no RC control for a few seconds after take off
You cannot fly a 210 offshore on gps alone. Even if it tells you 18 satalites GoFly, if you take off there is a high chance you will crash due to magnetic interference. I found out the hard way and had to wrestle the drone out the sky before it crashed.

I have been really let down by this equipment and it proves that it is not made for the  offshore industry. My company reputation has been damaged by this serious of incidents and inconsistencies.

I do want to mention though, when I did get it all working it was great, the XT was fantastic.
But, I couldn’t complete the work scope and I was left standing around for hours turning on and off, burning through batteries trying to connect to RTK

David





2018-6-20
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fansaddbd8f0
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Flight distance : 249 ft
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DJI Mindy Posted at 2018-6-12 01:27
RTK has a high demand of the environment, please make sure the flying place is open and free of radio interference, just to verify, does the issue happen in the same place? Have you tried different environment?

We purchased the RTK system so we could fly in and around heavy metal structures with radio interferance.  What am I missing?

Noel
2018-6-24
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DJI Mindy
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fansaddbd8f0 Posted at 2018-6-24 11:21
We purchased the RTK system so we could fly in and around heavy metal structures with radio interferance.  What am I missing?

Noel

RTK can withstand magnetic interference from metal structures, telecom tower and so on, but it is sensitive to the radio interference, please refer to the introduction of our user manual. GTScreenshot_20180625_192916.png
2018-6-25
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AIRAMATIC
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Flight distance : 643041 ft
United Kingdom
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DJI Mindy Posted at 2018-6-25 03:30
RTK can withstand magnetic interference from metal structures, telecom tower and so on, but it is sensitive to the radio interference, please refer to the introduction of our user manual.[view_image]

That's all fine and well but I experienced what I experienced. As much as I shunned the negatives I had heard about the 210RTK from the outset, believing it would be suitable for offshore environment / environment with metal structure and all sorts of various signals, I can confirm it's not and as far as I'm concerned. I will never take another DJI product offshore until such time it has been proven to be safe, consistent and reliable for work in those environments.

I think the products you make for consumer market are fantastic but your hybrid adaptation of drones and software to the industrial sector needs more focus, more commitment and more importantly more time to be ready
2018-6-27
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rfAndy
lvl.4
Flight distance : 394127 ft
United States
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I'd like to add an update to my original post.  A new firmware update came out for the M210RTK for both the aircraft and the D-RTK system subsequent to my original message (there were updates on both 20 & 21 June).  After going through the updates, including the D-RTK Ground Station (both RTKs needed updates), I saw a marked improvement in the operation of the RTK system.  I returned to the same location where I had previously experience significant trouble and everything worked perfectly.  Coincidence?  The release notes mention that the firmware did address some RTK issues.

So, I'm wondering why DJI, who obviously knows there was an RTK problem (as they spent time creating a firmware fix), doesn't just admit there are known bugs that impact the reliable operation of RTK and that they're being addressed in a future firmware update.  Clearly, DJI knew of the problems for months - even longer, perhaps.  Why not issue a bulletin that covers known bugs so us operators can be made aware in advance of failing on a job.  Totally irresponsible to us end users who can run into real problems - instead of avoiding them - by DJI withholding known information about bugs.

DJI - you will earn more respect from your users if you were open and transparent about known problems instead of hiding or remaining silent and having your users trip and fall because of your silence.  SPEAK UP when you discover problems and let everyone know about them!!  Thank you.
2018-7-3
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AIRAMATIC
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Flight distance : 643041 ft
United Kingdom
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rfAndy Posted at 2018-7-3 12:54
I'd like to add an update to my original post.  A new firmware update came out for the M210RTK for both the aircraft and the D-RTK system subsequent to my original message (there were updates on both 20 & 21 June).  After going through the updates, including the D-RTK Ground Station (both RTKs needed updates), I saw a marked improvement in the operation of the RTK system.  I returned to the same location where I had previously experience significant trouble and everything worked perfectly.  Coincidence?  The release notes mention that the firmware did address some RTK issues.

So, I'm wondering why DJI, who obviously knows there was an RTK problem (as they spent time creating a firmware fix), doesn't just admit there are known bugs that impact the reliable operation of RTK and that they're being addressed in a future firmware update.  Clearly, DJI knew of the problems for months - even longer, perhaps.  Why not issue a bulletin that covers known bugs so us operators can be made aware in advance of failing on a job.  Totally irresponsible to us end users who can run into real problems - instead of avoiding them - by DJI withholding known information about bugs.

My vision of DJI is a bunch of guys/girls in a 1 bed flat playing with software and not really having a clue what they are doing or what they are doing it for. They have a person who deals with the manufacturer and controls the drone production, and another who deals with the website and marketing, of which there is not that much to be honest.

I don't belive they have any direction or anyone leading them. It's obviously clear that there software and drones are all bet versions when they first come out, and not the end product. I have never seen a company get away with so much utter garbage software and hardware for so long. When It works its great but, that's not good enough, there should always be a level of stability and reliability.

Sort your mess out (dji) , get some direction and  give us the customer service we deserve because without us you are nothing...

2018-7-7
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