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Crash due to Obstacle Avoidance failure
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ethankailey
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Have flown my Mavic Air Pro for about a year without any issues.  However, just recently, my Mavic Pro flew right into the tree and crashed onto the concrete sidewalk below.  It wasn't a small branch it hit, but rather an enormous tree.   The impact was from the front and the positon of the the sun was towards the back of the drone so it did not have any "glare" issues that prevented the Obstacle Avoidene to work correctly.   

After reading pages after pages about other users horrid story about the customer service, I'm not extremely worried that the warranty service (DJI Service Center in Texas), will deny my warranty repair.    Also not sure why my drone was sent to their repair center in Cerritos which is about 10 minute drive from my house.

I will keep the progress of my repair here to share with all.

June 10th - Requested Service Repair via Online,  https://repair.dji.com/repair/index?v1=1
June 10th - Received Shipping Label to have the drone sent back to the service center in Grapevine, Texas.
June 11th-  Shipped via UPS.

Have my fingers crossed for speedy recovery and solid customer service.

2018-6-11
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SparksBird
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Hope it goes well.  Keep us updated.
2018-6-11
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DJI Stephen
DJI team
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I am sorry for what happened to your Mavic Pro. The reason why you need to send the Mavic Pro in for repair is because since there was a crash we need to assess the drone completely to ensure a safe and reliable flight in the future. Rest assured that DJI repair center will do its best to repair and return your Mavic Pro as soon as possible.

2018-6-11
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Jeff7577
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Warranty denied ;) Good luck.
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2018-6-11
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ethankailey
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Jeff7577 Posted at 2018-6-11 09:43
Warranty denied ;) Good luck.

Hi Jeff,

It wasn't a small branch that my Mavic first came into contact with.  Trees have been blossoming nicely here in southern Cali and full of leaves.    It wasn't a strand of empty branch that my mavic came into contact with.   I volunteer/work with lots of handicapped kids on my spare time and this instance, I was helping a young boy learning to ride a bike which I was filming.   I had about group of 6 kids with few parents that witnessed the occurrence.   

I spend ungodly amount of my own money with these kids so I can take a hit if DJI wants to invoice me for the repairs, but I'd like to have a very good explanation why it will not honor the warranty.



2018-6-11
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hallmark007
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Without logs it’s hard to comment, but just to wish you good luck, not a nice thing to happen.
2018-6-11
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ethankailey
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CAS-1874338-S1G9V3

June 10th - Requested Service Repair via Online,  https://repair.dji.com/repair/index?v1=1
June 10th - Received Shipping Label to have the drone sent back to the service center in Grapevine, Texas.
June 11th-  Shipped via UPS.
June 15th-  Received
June 15th-  Conducting Damage Assessment
2018-6-19
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LoSBoL
First Officer
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Why did you fly your drone towards an enormous tree?
2018-6-19
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ghostrdr
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LoSBoL Posted at 2018-6-19 07:35
Why did you fly your drone towards an enormous tree?

Enquiring minds want to know!
2018-6-19
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GDL
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Hong Kong
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Are you in P mode and fly towards the tree? There is no sensor on the side and sensor won’t work in sport mode.
2018-6-19
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ethankailey
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GDL Posted at 2018-6-19 07:41
Are you in P mode and fly towards the tree? There is no sensor on the side and sensor won’t work in sport mode.

Drone was on with Active Track enabled following a bicyclist.   

It was in the early afternoon with excellent visibility.  I'm fully aware that there aren't any sensors on the side and can evade from frontal collision with the drone moving sideways.  However, the drone flew right into the top midsection of the tree, (Indian Laurel), and was stuck inside before it made it's final descent to the ground below.   

There are many things I could have done differently to avoid this disaster.  But in my own defense, I was teaching a handicapped boy learn to ride a bike and was getting much better than previous days and wanted to capture it on video.    For the sake of the privacy, I'm not going to upload the video on a public forum.  Video was meant for the parent of the child.  

If I have to pay for the damages to have the drone fixed, I have no problem with it as my volunteer work with these kids are well worth the footage.    But I do know the fact that the obsticle avoidance should have kicked in and avoided the crash.  












2018-6-19
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Datadogie
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I've seen this happen before. I think the sensors are off in active track. When following when you go round a corner the drone will not take the same route it will take the shortest route cutting the corner. As you had a tree in the way I think this is the reason for the crash.
2018-6-19
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QuadKid
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Datadogie Posted at 2018-6-19 12:19
I've seen this happen before. I think the sensors are off in active track. When following when you go round a corner the drone will not take the same route it will take the shortest route cutting the corner. As you had a tree in the way I think this is the reason for the crash.

I believe this is true as I have seen many videos of footage using Active Track where the subject makes a sharp right/left turn, the drone makes a wide soft turn trying to track the subject and ends up running into a tree or building.
2018-6-19
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SparksBird
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Datadogie Posted at 2018-6-19 12:19
I've seen this happen before. I think the sensors are off in active track. When following when you go round a corner the drone will not take the same route it will take the shortest route cutting the corner. As you had a tree in the way I think this is the reason for the crash.

The sensors do work in active track and can have it either just completely stop and not go around or can have it go around.  Here is a test I did using active track with OA turned on.  You can see at 45 seconds it stops before hitting a pole then goes around continuing to follow me.  You are right in the fact it will not take the same route but will cut corners as shown in my video.
2018-6-19
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gnirtS
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Controlled Flight Into Terrain is not going to be covered by a warranty.  The sensors didnt cause it to fly into a tree, the operator did.
2018-6-19
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ethankailey
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Active Track was enabled and following the bicyclist in a straight path with the drone behind.  Boy, had been riding the bike near the path of the tree and had passed the tree within about 7 feet away from it.  He wasn't making any aggressive turns nor sudden moves while he was riding his bike.  

Obviously, there are many unknown factors or potential user negligence that can be contributed to the crash, but I'm writing as it happened.   It was pretty straight forward.  Obstacle avoidance did not detect the tree.  

I own one of the "larger" online hobby shop and have been a reseller of DJI and Autel, at the beginning of the drone boom before we stopped several years ago due to low profit margins.   In all honesty, Autel Robotics does have better customer service but cannot beat the build quality that of DJI products.   This thread was created just to share my own timeline, whether who's fault it was.  
2018-6-19
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GDL
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You should use activate track or Rotherham auto fly mode in open area. DJI drone still not smart enough to track objects and avoid obstacles all around st same time.
2018-6-19
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hallmark007
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GDL Posted at 2018-6-19 17:40
You should use activate track or Rotherham auto fly mode in open area. DJI drone still not smart enough to track objects and avoid obstacles all around st same time.

Rotherham auto fly, maybeyou will explain this to us .
2018-6-19
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GDL
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Sorry typo. Other automated flight mode.
2018-6-19
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ethankailey
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CAS-1874338-S1G9V3

June 10th - Requested Service Repair via Online,  https://repair.dji.com/repair/index?v1=1
June 10th - Received Shipping Label to have the drone sent back to the service center in Grapevine, Texas.
June 11th-  Shipped via UPS.
June 15th-  Received
June 15th-  Conducting Damage Assessment
June 22nd  Still no words about the extent of the damage and the outcome from the data analysis.

I was hoping to get it fixed before the road trip to Seattle with the volunteers for our program next weekend and looks like that won't happen.   

Also, just to clarify, my Mavic Air Pro was sent to Grapevine, TX repair center instead of the main North America DJI dealer in Cerritos.
DJI Service Center
4051 N HIGHWAY 121
STE 100
GRAPEVINE TX 76051

This address that my Mavic was sent to is a Asus service center.    I did call DJI and was told by the rep that all Mavic series needing repairs are sent to this location.   Not a fan of Asus and hope that they do better repairs on drones than repairing laptops.   

ASUS Service Center
4051 N. Hwy 121, Suite 100
Grapevine, TX 76051

DJI sending drones to be fixed at ASUS corporate service center??  Anyone find this odd?
Does Mavic have components made by ASUS?   Could it be that ASUS repair center in Grapevine, TX is conducting the data analysis and sending the drone to DJI Cerritos to fix?  No one seems to talk about this...  Is it just me?  Longer they have my Mavic, CRAZIER I get??  LOL.  



2018-6-22
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Brad Bilger
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Hmmm..  Doesn't appear to be just ASUS Service Center...

WWW.SMSINFOCOMM.COM

2018-6-22
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ethankailey
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Brad Bilger Posted at 2018-6-22 13:03
Hmmm..  Doesn't appear to be just ASUS Service Center...

WWW.SMSINFOCOMM.COM

On the phone with the manager from DJI Tech support hotline (Name: John, Station Number NA665).
I specifically asked if the location that I've sent my drone for repair was owned by DJI and was told repeatedly that DJI downright owned the facility.  All Mavic and Spark issues/repairs are sent to this address, he added..  

Something doesn't match up.  DJI owns SMS INFOCOMM (thank you Brad, for the find) which is a goto repair center for ASUS for last 5 + years.  Now, it's owned by DJI?

Are there any collaboration with DJI and ASUS where DJI has to send it's products to be repaired by the ASUS designated repair center?  

In my honest opinion, DJI does not own SMS INFOCOMM.  They're only subbing out the repair to a reputable company, which in term a crucial disadvantage to consumers/owners of DJI Mavic drones.  In every scenario, SMS INFOCOMM will charge DJI for it's repair cost no matter who's fault it is or even if it's covered by the warranty.   Someone is going to be responsible for the finalized bill.  Since the cost of the repair is being collected/charged from outsourced company, DJI will do their part to pass this cost to it's buyers, which is a known tactics of larger corporations that cannot handle the amount of repairs they receive.   

As I wait for the finalized outcome of my case, I have a feeling that I'm going to receive some bad news.  Under basic Economics 101, my fate is inevitable.  


2018-6-22
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ethankailey
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Maybe I can get a job there??

https://www.jobs.net/jobs/sms-in ... 3V4X772TZ8C4P2PPK6/

Tech - L1 Drone Repair
at SMS InfoComm Corporation

2018-6-22
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cspain
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ethankailey Posted at 2018-6-19 08:46
Drone was on with Active Track enabled following a bicyclist.   

It was in the early afternoon with excellent visibility.  I'm fully aware that there aren't any sensors on the side and can evade from frontal collision with the drone moving sideways.  However, the drone flew right into the top midsection of the tree, (Indian Laurel), and was stuck inside before it made it's final descent to the ground below.   

Ah, you were in Active Attack mode. Was the kid ok?
2018-6-22
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ethankailey
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To add, due to the amount of repairs for Mavic and Spark, I'm told by the manager at DJI that both drones are sent to the Texas facility that is owned by DJI.    Cerritos location in CA just don't have the manpower to assist with the repair with the amount of request they receive everyday, according to the rep.

As a consumer, I would really like a clarification to who and where my drones are sent to for repairs.  I've spoken with reps/tech support from multiple level from DJI and all state that the facility at Texas is owned by DJI.    I would definitely like some insight to this since they now have my drone.  
2018-6-22
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Brad Bilger
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ethankailey Posted at 2018-6-22 16:21
Maybe I can get a job there??

https://www.jobs.net/jobs/sms-infocomm-corporation/en-us/job/United-States/Tech-L1-Drone-Repair/J3V4X772TZ8C4P2PPK6/

Maybe I should try.  That would only be about a 20 minute commute from my house.  LOL .  I don't see how they could flight test the drones afterwards.  They are about 1.5 miles north of DFW airport exactly in line with the runways.
2018-6-22
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ethankailey
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cspain Posted at 2018-6-22 18:35
Ah, you were in Active Attack mode. Was the kid ok?

Active Attack mode?!!??  Did I miss a latest firmware??

Kid was well out of the way and no one was injured.  I did get a descent footage before the crash and was given to the boy's dad.  He was incredibly happy with the accomplishment of  his son that he wanted to pay for the damages, but I refused.   Wouldn't be right..

One of the mom did take a video of the entire incident which she shared with me afterwards.  Sure enough, drone never "braked" or "avoided" and proceeded to fly right into the tree.    I'm going to wait until DJI's response and actions before I post it.  I just need to "edit" the boy out of the video.  Our volunteers do not solicit or share our video with the general public.

2018-6-23
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cspain
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ethankailey Posted at 2018-6-23 00:45
Active Attack mode?!!??  Did I miss a latest firmware??

Kid was well out of the way and no one was injured.  I did get a descent footage before the crash and was given to the boy's dad.  He was incredibly happy with the accomplishment of  his son that he wanted to pay for the damages, but I refused.   Wouldn't be right..

Maybe the problem is that you have the latest firmware ;)
I heard stories of people's drones flying into subjects they were tracking during active track, so some started to call it active attack
2018-6-23
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Danger Lampost
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Should DJI be liable for damages to your drone if it crashed into something when in an autopilot mode like active track?

I propose the answer to this question is generally "no" because I think the pilot must always be within VLOS and ready to take control at a moment's notice to avoid crashes. In this particular case, if the pilot was in VLOS of the drone, they should have been able to see a big tree coming up, taken control, and avoided the obstacle.

That said, there are times when an autopilot mode will fail in a rather catastrophic way, such as when some drones in active track mode dive bomb directly toward the subject they are tracking. That kind of crash should be covered by DJI because you have little time to take control and save the drone and it's clearly due to a software error.
2018-6-23
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HedgeTrimmer
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Danger Lampost Posted at 2018-6-23 13:53
Should DJI be liable for damages to your drone if it crashed into something when in an autopilot mode like active track?

I propose the answer to this question is generally "no" because I think the pilot must always be within VLOS and ready to take control at a moment's notice to avoid crashes. In this particular case, if the pilot was in VLOS of the drone, they should have been able to see a big tree coming up, taken control, and avoided the obstacle.

I can see your point.  However, I believe DJI should have to provide clear evidence it was Pilot error.  Not merely state X, warranty denied.  

There can be system problems that caused X to occur or make it appear as if X occured.
2018-6-23
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Danger Lampost
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HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-6-23 14:42
I can see your point.  However, I believe DJI should have to provide clear evidence it was Pilot error.  Not merely state X, warranty denied.  

There can be system problems that caused X to occur or make it appear as if X occured.

I agree with what you say.

I feel like I always have to have VLOS and control of where the drone is flying, and that active track, APAS, dronies, boomerangs, and the like could always mess up at the drop of a hat, as they do. So I'm ready to abort any of those modes instantly if I need to.

But also, one of the things I really like about active track is that you can still fly the drone while in active track - changing altitude, swing around to get a side view, and so on. Whenever I'm in active track mode, I feel like I'm still flying the drone, but with an autopilot aid helping me out. I would never assume that APAS or anything else would avoid a big tree, so I would manually avoid an upcoming tree and not rely on the drone to do that for me.
2018-6-23
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ethankailey
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Danger Lampost Posted at 2018-6-23 14:59
I agree with what you say.

I feel like I always have to have VLOS and control of where the drone is flying, and that active track, APAS, dronies, boomerangs, and the like could always mess up at the drop of a hat, as they do. So I'm ready to abort any of those modes instantly if I need to.

I don't agree with anything  you have posted, but most casual users, don't fully understand the specific details about the "options" and "features".  Most of you are seasoned veterans and I believe are in elite 5% that compromises of the buyers.  Majority of the buyers are weekend flyers, sold by the advertisements of what these drones are capable of achieving.    I did have one of the parent in control of the drone with clear VLOS in case it flew away or got too close to the kids around.  I had explained about the Obstacle Avoidance feature so the user with the control's only responsibility was to keep the eye on the drone in case it came too close to the vicinity of the kids that were watching the boy learning to ride the bike with me closely behind, in case he lost control of the bike.

I see O.A. to be a fail safe application and in my case, it didn't work.  These drones are about $1k, and if the major selling point  or the feature ceases to work, don't you agree that DJI should do it's part to make sure that it works?  If you are buying a car, shouldn't you expect the cruise control to work?  Better yet, if you are buying Tesla with Autonomous features, shouldn't you expect it to work?   
2018-6-24
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Danger Lampost
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ethankailey Posted at 2018-6-24 13:17
I don't agree with anything  you have posted, but most casual users, don't fully understand the specific details about the "options" and "features".  Most of you are seasoned veterans and I believe are in elite 5% that compromises of the buyers.  Majority of the buyers are weekend flyers, sold by the advertisements of what these drones are capable of achieving.    I did have one of the parent in control of the drone with clear VLOS in case it flew away or got too close to the kids around.  I had explained about the Obstacle Avoidance feature so the user with the control's only responsibility was to keep the eye on the drone in case it came too close to the vicinity of the kids that were watching the boy learning to ride the bike with me closely behind, in case he lost control of the bike.

I see O.A. to be a fail safe application and in my case, it didn't work.  These drones are about $1k, and if the major selling point  or the feature ceases to work, don't you agree that DJI should do it's part to make sure that it works?  If you are buying a car, shouldn't you expect the cruise control to work?  Better yet, if you are buying Tesla with Autonomous features, shouldn't you expect it to work?

I'm a weekend casual amateur flier, for the record. As you may know, the driver must always pay attention and be ready to take control even with Tesla autonomous driving.
See:
http://www.businessinsider.com/t ... e-car-itself-2017-6
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/f ... -you-are-not-driver
"I see O.A. to be a fail safe application"
There are a dozen different reasons it could fail, so I conclude you can't rely on it. I encourage you to use OA as a backup, but I think a pilot should always have their fingers on the sticks and ready to take control at a moment's notice. Many, many times my drone has been in autopilot mode doing something or other and I took control, and aborted whatever autopilot mode it was in. Often this was because I could see it was headed towards a tree or something similar and I was not convinced the OA and APAS would work.
My main point: APAS and OA are not 100% fool proof, and DJI makes this abundently clear in their documentation. Therefore, you should not rely on it.


2018-6-24
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Aardvark
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ethankailey Posted at 2018-6-24 13:17
I don't agree with anything  you have posted, but most casual users, don't fully understand the specific details about the "options" and "features".  Most of you are seasoned veterans and I believe are in elite 5% that compromises of the buyers.  Majority of the buyers are weekend flyers, sold by the advertisements of what these drones are capable of achieving.    I did have one of the parent in control of the drone with clear VLOS in case it flew away or got too close to the kids around.  I had explained about the Obstacle Avoidance feature so the user with the control's only responsibility was to keep the eye on the drone in case it came too close to the vicinity of the kids that were watching the boy learning to ride the bike with me closely behind, in case he lost control of the bike.

I see O.A. to be a fail safe application and in my case, it didn't work.  These drones are about $1k, and if the major selling point  or the feature ceases to work, don't you agree that DJI should do it's part to make sure that it works?  If you are buying a car, shouldn't you expect the cruise control to work?  Better yet, if you are buying Tesla with Autonomous features, shouldn't you expect it to work?

I've not seen it mentioned in your posts, but was 'Enable Obstacle Avoidance in ActiveTrack' enabled in the Visual Navigations settings Menu. If that had not been enabled then there would be no object avoidance.
Apologies if you've already covered this point.
2018-6-24
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hallmark007
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ethankailey Posted at 2018-6-24 13:17
I don't agree with anything  you have posted, but most casual users, don't fully understand the specific details about the "options" and "features".  Most of you are seasoned veterans and I believe are in elite 5% that compromises of the buyers.  Majority of the buyers are weekend flyers, sold by the advertisements of what these drones are capable of achieving.    I did have one of the parent in control of the drone with clear VLOS in case it flew away or got too close to the kids around.  I had explained about the Obstacle Avoidance feature so the user with the control's only responsibility was to keep the eye on the drone in case it came too close to the vicinity of the kids that were watching the boy learning to ride the bike with me closely behind, in case he lost control of the bike.

I see O.A. to be a fail safe application and in my case, it didn't work.  These drones are about $1k, and if the major selling point  or the feature ceases to work, don't you agree that DJI should do it's part to make sure that it works?  If you are buying a car, shouldn't you expect the cruise control to work?  Better yet, if you are buying Tesla with Autonomous features, shouldn't you expect it to work?

You know , it really puts others at a disadvantage regarding commenting on your case , but it sure would be a lot easier and more helpful to you if you did post flight log, and it also gives others a good insight to the actual cause of your crash.
I left link above for you.
2018-6-24
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A CW
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SparksBird Posted at 2018-6-19 12:47
The sensors do work in active track and can have it either just completely stop and not go around or can have it go around.  Here is a test I did using active track with OA turned on.  You can see at 45 seconds it stops before hitting a pole then goes around continuing to follow me.  You are right in the fact it will not take the same route but will cut corners as shown in my video.
https://youtu.be/0-0lzy3-2g4

Cool vid mate   
2018-6-25
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ethankailey
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Well, dreaded email from DJI came back with $403 repair bill for my Mavic Pro.  

Item         Quantity         Unit Price(USD)         Total Price(USD)
Mavic Intelligent Flight Battery (20)         1         89.00         89.00
Middle Frame Module         1         4.00         4.00
Rear Right Motor Arm         1         19.00         19.00
Gimbal Arm Module         1         59.00         59.00
Upper Cover         1         1.00         1.00
Gimbal and Camera Module         1         101.00         101.00
Repair Service Fee         2         65.00/H         130.00
Freight:                         0.00
Total Amount:                         403.00
DJI Care deduction:                         0.00
Total Payment:                         403.00

Spoke with the rep about it and was told that there was a previous "crash" during RTH so the recent malfunction of OA could be the cause of the previous crash.  They are referring to the initial incident that took about a month before the actual crash which happened on June 7th.  During the RTH, my drone clipped a tree and since I was close to it, I was able to catch it without any damages to my drone.    DJI never did any data analysis from the current crash which happened on June 7th.  They went back to May 12 when the first incident took place.   With sending the drones to a affiliated repair facility, DJI will find a ways to make sure it voids out the warranty.  

I'm beginning to really hate DJI just about now.  

2018-6-25
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RGMGFitness
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ethankailey Posted at 2018-6-25 09:22
Well, dreaded email from DJI came back with $403 repair bill for my Mavic Pro.  

Item         Quantity         Unit Price(USD)         Total Price(USD)

Interesting read...thanks for sharing your experience.  
2018-6-25
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hallmark007 Posted at 2018-6-11 11:14
Without logs it’s hard to comment, but just to wish you good luck, not a nice thing to happen.

Where can you get the logs from?
1-13 08:12
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Hallmark007
Captain
Flight distance : 9812789 ft
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Ireland
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djiuser_FLRpJsCgiYx6 Posted at 1-13 08:12
Where can you get the logs from?

Your logs are on your device, ie remote or phone which ever you are using.
1-13 09:16
Use props
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