A very common answer to various problems is to re-install the same version of firmware and I don't really get that part.

  

Assuming the fw installation went fine = it passed installation w/o error and rebooted w/o issues/alerts, I can't see any reason doing it repeatedly will solve any actual problem?

  

The fw code should NOT change simply because you fly the drone normally. Or are DJI adding/modifying variables into the fw itself during use, which I doubt they do?

  

Calibration of the compass, IMU etc. is of course a different story as variables/environments changes that will require re-calibration.

  

I understand an OS such as Windows may need to be reinstalled, but mainly because of other applications modified Windows itself. The fw on a “sandboxed” device as the MA don’t have any other apps to care about. To be honest, I can’t think of any other of my electronic devices (routers, cable box, iPhone…..) I have been asked to install the same version again, updates yes but not the same.

  

Could someone please let me know what I am missing?  

      

"Assuming the fw installation went fine "

I think you've answered it yourself, there is always a small chance of some undetected corruption to data during or after update (perhaps a rogue piece of code in the firmware itself).
Along the same lines as using restore points or system back ups for computer. I've used these many a time where some application has crashed and caused corruptions to files. DJI Go 4 is continually updated which gives it the potential to corrupt the data on the aircraft.
And just as likely it's DJIs 'Get out of jail free' card, putting it one step ahead of 'please contact support and create a case number'. Or at least, that's my understanding :-)

It is effectively re-installing the software to correct anything that could have been missed previously.  If a file was in use, or component not changed during the initial installation, re-installation could catch that.

Please don't take this as defense of this practice.  What this means is that the error handling or verification process in the firmware update is not working properly.    Working with computer hardware, I've seen many, many times that installing firmware shows as successfully completing, but then upon further inspection, it was not successful.

As you said, a sandboxed MA won't take into consideration any other apps.  I don't know what the procedure for their testing is, but it does seem like they are testing in a vacuum and not taking into account any other factors.  I also think that there should be a standard way to update.  I think there are differences in the way the wifi update works, vs updating through DJI assistant works.  I'm sure the firmware is the same, but procedure makes a difference.

Aardvark Posted at 2018-6-18 05:48
"Assuming the fw installation went fine "

I think you've answered it yourself, there is always a small chance of some undetected corruption to data during or after update (perhaps a rogue piece of code in the firmware itself).

well said Aardvark.  it's the equivalent of "have you rebooted it?"  <-  because a lot of times, that IS actually the answer.

I believe your question is "the" answer to why DJI has not released a firmware fix for .400 so far. My theory (add the word "conspiracy" in front of this if you want) on the matter is that there was never anything wrong with .400 to begin with; yet it was the flashing software that could not write it properly on some of the drones, for whatever reason it might be. This could explain why multiple flashes, especially via updated software can remedy the situation to some extent (like in my personal case).

That also explains why they would not allow a rollback despite all the protests, as it simply might not be possible.  The mis-flash might have written/broken something that can not be wiped off by flashing an older firmware...

Well, hopefully the whole quagmire would not end in a recall due to faulty rom chips etc... That would affect a lot of people that do not have official local dealers and had to buy the drone from abroad...

Thanks for the replies, if I understand you correct, basically it comes down to the verification process of a successful fw installation is not good enough and can't be trusted.
If so this is pretty bad and is something DJI should address.
I agree the different ways to install could potentially impact, but again comes down to having a proper verification and having different delivery mechanisms should not impact the code itself.

Hello there. I appreciate your time bringing this query to us and we apologize for the inconvenience. The reason why we sometimes advise customers to reinstall the app is that it actually works most of the time. There is some scenario that once you update the firmware or install the app, there are components or data that was missed that's why re-installation could solve the problem. It's like refreshing something.

CemAygun Posted at 2018-6-18 06:10
I believe your question is "the" answer to why DJI did not release a fix for .400 so far. My theory (add the word "conspiracy" in front of this if you want) on the matter is that there was never anything wrong with .400 to begin with; yet it was the flashing software that could not write it properly on some of the drones for whatever reason it might be. This could explain why multiple flashes, especially via updated software can remedy the situation to some extent (like in my personal case).

That also explains why they would not allow a rollback despite all the protests, as it simply might not be possible.  The mis-flash might have written/broken something that can not be wiped off by flashing an older firmware...

"Well, hopefully the whole quagmire would not end in a recall due to faulty rom chips etc... That would affect a lot of people...."

That's my biggest concern.  There are clearly a group of folks whose a/c just aren't liking .0400 for whatever reason and despite multiple refreshes.

Same principle as rebooting

If re-installing firmware actually does (sometimes) solve problem(s); then DJI's updater is seriously Flawed.

Even if there were some drones built with EEPROMs (or static memory) that don't always take update properly first time, DJI's updater is still seriously Flawed.   
Rogue EEPROMs being cause is doubltful, being previous updates would have already brought hardware problem to light.

Updater (aka update process) absolutely must verify what was stored to EEPROMs (or static memory), is what was intended to be stored.  
Write, Read and Compare or Write, Read, MD5, check final MD5 value.

A CW Posted at 2018-6-18 07:30
Same principle as rebooting

As in, there is a problem with OS, we don't know what problem is, but rebooting gets customer going again, until OS is once again corrupted.

DJI Wanda Posted at 2018-6-18 06:55
Hello there. I appreciate your time bringing this query to us and we apologize for the inconvenience. The reason why we sometimes advise customers to reinstall the app is that it actually works most of the time. There is some scenario that once you update the firmware or install the app, there are components or data that was missed that's why re-installation could solve the problem. It's like refreshing something.

there are components or data that was missed that's why re-installation could solve the problem. It's like refreshing something.


Then there is a serious problem with DJI's updater.  

On a closed system like Mavic Pros and Mavic Airs there are no 3rd-Party issues that could cause components or data to be missed.
The whole enchilada is under DJI's control in regards to Drones and RCs.

As for Smartdevices, there is possibility of OS or other App issues causing GO-4 app install problems.  But again, the GO-4 app installer should be verifying install.

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-6-18 08:14
As in, there is a problem with OS, we don't know what problem is, but rebooting gets customer going again, until OS is once again corrupted.

Yeah, the principle is the same though.

A CW Posted at 2018-6-18 08:23
Yeah, the principle is the same though.

I think the fact refreshing has worked for many so no harm trying it.

CemAygun Posted at 2018-6-18 06:10
I believe your question is "the" answer to why DJI has not released a firmware fix for .400 so far. My theory (add the word "conspiracy" in front of this if you want) on the matter is that there was never anything wrong with .400 to begin with; yet it was the flashing software that could not write it properly on some of the drones, for whatever reason it might be. This could explain why multiple flashes, especially via updated software can remedy the situation to some extent (like in my personal case).

That also explains why they would not allow a rollback despite all the protests, as it simply might not be possible.  The mis-flash might have written/broken something that can not be wiped off by flashing an older firmware...

The mis-flash might have written/broken something that can not be wiped off by flashing an older firmware...  


Highly unlikely.  More likely - DJI's drones do not have a FailSafe boot code that never gets changed which would always allow firmware updates.  

Leading to possibility that .0400 firmware installed new bootstrap code for Mavic Air.  Once that new bootstrap code was installed, it would take creating a new version of .0300 to work with a Mavic Air's new bootstrap code.  Too much effort, so not happening.

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-6-18 08:25
I think the fact refreshing has worked for many so no harm trying it.

Exactly - reboot/refresh and it tends to fix the little quirks

Aardvark Posted at 2018-6-18 05:48
"Assuming the fw installation went fine "

I think you've answered it yourself, there is always a small chance of some undetected corruption to data during or after update (perhaps a rogue piece of code in the firmware itself).

DJI Go 4 is continually updated which gives it the potential to corrupt the data on the aircraft.  


If multiple crashes of DJI GO-4 were to corrupt storage (instructions / static data) on the aircraft, the Update process would overwrite the corrupted storage (instructions / static data).

A CW Posted at 2018-6-18 08:36
Exactly - reboot/refresh and it tends to fix the little quirks

There is no harm in trying it.  
However, it does not get to root of problem.  Nor does it keep customers in future from experiencing weeks of headaches, wasted time, and possible crashes.

It is like - continuing to pick up a young child, who keeps falling down while running.
Time to find out why kid keeps falling down.  
As in balance problems caused by an ear infection.  (To name one possibility).

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-6-18 08:52
There is no harm in trying it.  
However, it does not get to root of problem.  Nor does it keep customers in future from experiencing weeks of headaches, wasted time, and possible crashes.

I disagree - having refreshed my FW the glitches stopped immediately on the MA and have not returned - especially when using Assistant 2 over the app. I can only speak from personal experience in actually flying and owning the MA.

A CW Posted at 2018-6-18 09:00
I disagree - having refreshed my FW the glitches stopped immediately on the MA and have not returned - especially when using Assistant 2 over the app. I can only speak from personal experience in actually flying and owning the MA.

What part are you disagreeing with?  

Getting to root of problem?
No harm in trying it again?
Possibility of a future update causing some customers experience weeks of headaches, wasted time, and possible crashes?

Or possibility being discussed that DJI's update process has serious flaw?

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-6-18 09:13
What part are you disagreeing with?  

Getting to root of problem?

The fact that refreshing the FW has resolved the issues I had - period!

There is as of yet a problem that will effect all drone pilots.  One involving doubt, risk, and assurance.

Given some of problems are being resolved by re-installing firmware or re-re-installing firmware, when next firmware update comes out...

Pilots (customers) will have to install firmware once, then re-install firmware again, and possibly yet another time; in hopes that that one of installs of firmware update went correctly.  Being at this point, there is no way to tell if Update process properly installed firmware.

Result is wasted time and sweat for all Pilots.   Followed by sessions of Pray and Fly, for confidence bulding and verfication.

I think there are many variables at play here, some software some with users not used to all of this, and some more problems not connected to FW/SW, I don’t believe the problem is all tech or all user but when you put the two together it looks much worse than it is.
Anyways I’m off to Spain and tomorrow I get to fly the brand spanking New M200 weather permitting, it’s just the basic model with XS4 but it’s controlled by Cendence , Can’t wait, hopefully pilot app working well.

A CW Posted at 2018-6-18 09:16
The fact that refreshing the FW has resolved the issues I had - period!

Then you should talk to DJI.  After all it is their closed system and installer that failed to properly update firmware the first time.

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-6-18 09:23
Then you should talk to DJI.  After all it is their closed system and installer that failed to properly update firmware the first time.

Why contact DJI when my drone is working perfectly following the FW refresh - sounds like a waste of time better spent flying, don't you think?!

HedgeTrimmer, I think you are spot on. I assume you are a developer or got deep skills developing code, based on your replies.
Even if re-installing fw solves the problem for some, it does not likely solve the root cause, even if the perceived outcome is the same for a longer or shorter period of time.
A fw re-install is NOT the same as a reboot or OS re-install of a PC; for this POV a MA has actually more in common with your internet router than your PC - sometimes it needs a reboot, but rarely do you install the same fw to it.

A CW Posted at 2018-6-18 09:30
Why contact DJI when my drone is working perfectly following the FW refresh - sounds like a waste of time better spent flying, don't you think?!

sounds like a waste of time better spent flying, don't you think?!


Don't agree.  Unless your point is DJI will doing absolutely nothing about their seriously flawed Updater.

Waste your time flying only to find problem(s), waste your time working to find isolate cause of problem(s), and waste your time re-upating firmware (and possibly again based on a few others experience) vs. trying to get root of problem fixed.  Your choice.   

Rblomqvist Posted at 2018-6-18 09:38
HedgeTrimmer, I think you are spot on. I assume you are a developer or got deep skills developing code, based on your replies.
Even if re-installing fw solves the problem for some, it does not likely solve the root cause, even if the perceived outcome is the same for a longer or shorter period of time.
A fw re-install is NOT the same as a reboot or OS re-install of a PC; for this POV a MA has actually more in common with your internet router than your PC - sometimes it needs a reboot, but rarely do you install the same fw to it.

I assume you are a developer or got deep skills developing code, based on your replies.


I have written code at various levels and for different aspects.  From High-level (applications) to Low-level (diagnostics as in 1&0s).  Along with other duties ...

Headgetrimmer - “waste my time flying” - what the hell did you buy a drone for - to look at it and pretend your Bill Gates hahahaha - please,

@hedgetrimmer

I'm on your side of the fence.  I want to know what the problem is, because knowing what the problem is, and knowing that it is fixed gives me peace of mind.
Most pilots are going to be on the other side of the fence.  Most are going to be of the mind that "If it's working now, i'm good.  Don't really care what the problem WAS.  I only care that isn't anymore."

I'm that guy that even though mine was flying fine as of late (until Saturday's 'incident'), I'm still curious to know what happened and why.  That's just how my brain works.  RCA only matters to folks like us.   

The firmware file is like the reg. File in windows to say how to strat and what then. The problem with it means a problem with a function or more in the device.

When we ask to refresh the firmware, we want to make sure that the system is running good.

Now, does firmware the main problem mostly?! No, but could be a reason due to a weakness either in programing or conflict occurred.

Ahmed Hussain Posted at 2018-6-18 10:45
The firmware file is like the reg. File in windows to say how to strat and what then. The problem with it means a problem with a function or more in the device.

When we ask to refresh the firmware, we want to make sure that the system is running good.

No.  Firmware is binary code that provides instructions and set value data to CPU.

Windows registry with its various Hives is different in that it is stored on disk drive, loaded by windows into memory, and has values that are changeable by both OS and Administrator of system.

3-D Posted at 2018-6-18 10:32
@hedgetrimmer

I'm on your side of the fence.  I want to know what the problem is, because knowing what the problem is, and knowing that it is fixed gives me peace of mind.

Yeah, I didn't buy a drone that is flying perfectly to be kept on a table because someone 4,000 miles away is having a problem with theirs. I tend to rectify issues as they arise but I'm not one to repair what ain't broke.
I've just returned from flying my MA in 30MPH winds and the drone was solid. Totally faultless. That's all I need to know. The notion that I should now contact DJI to tell them that it is working perfectly but I am unhappy because on my next flight it may not be is up there with one of the most absurd things I have read on this forum. You do come across um', you really do LOL

A CW Posted at 2018-6-18 10:26
Headgetrimmer - “waste my time flying” - what the hell did you buy a drone for - to look at it and pretend your Bill Gates hahahaha - please,

I bought my drone to enjoying flying, inspections, and locating things - not to waste time with troubleshooting, re-updating, downgrading, and testing firmware upgrades on behalf of DJI.  But I take it from your reply, you bought your drone to be DJI's test tool, and waste your time.

As for pretending I'm Bill Gates.  If I were Bill Gates, I would have bought DJI, and had them doing firmware upgrades, troubleshooting, re-updating, downgrading, and testing of firmware upgrades on my orders, and carrying my drones for me, till I wanted to use them.  

A CW Posted at 2018-6-18 10:56
Yeah, I didn't buy a drone that is flying perfectly to be kept on a table because someone 4,000 miles away is having a problem with theirs. I tend to rectify issues as they arise but I'm not one to repair what ain't broke.
I've just returned from flying my MA in 30MPH winds and the drone was solid. Totally faultless. That's all I need to know. The notion that I should now contact DJI to tell them that it is working perfectly but I am unhappy because on my next flight it may not be is up there with one of the most absurd things I have read on this forum. You do come across um', you really do LOL

but I am unhappy because on my next flight it may not be is up there with one of the most absurd things I have read on this forum. You do come across um', you really do LOL

A CW & Firmware update failures...

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-6-18 11:03
I bought my drone to enjoying flying, inspections, and locating things - not to waste time with troubleshooting, re-updating, downgrading, and testing firmware upgrades on behalf of DJI.  But I take it from your reply, you bought your drone to be DJI's test tool, and waste your time.

As for pretending I'm Bill Gates.  If I were Bill Gates, I would have bought DJI, and had them doing firmware upgrades, troubleshooting, re-updating, downgrading, and testing of firmware upgrades on my orders, and carrying my drones for me, till I wanted to use them.

Then fly it and stop moaning.

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-6-18 11:07
but I am unhappy because on my next flight it may not be is up there with one of the most absurd things I have read on this forum. You do come across um', you really do LOL

A CW & Firmware update failures...

I don't have firmware update failures - so I don't need to refresh anymore that what I have done - how many times do I have to spell it out to you. And nor do you given that you don't even own a Mavic Air... You clearly like to get on the band wagon though and stir everyone up don't you. Take your shaking finger tips off the key board and go and fly the drone. You're not taking calls on the help desk now pal.

To put things into perspective, in three years of using P3 Pro, P4 & Mavic Pro; I have not once had to refresh firmware to resolve an issue.
Once or twice in this time I have used the refresh function to test that it does what it says.

Any glitches imposed by rogue firmware have for me been minimal, and resolved by the next release, in the most serious for me the P4 v02.00.0106 (camera resetting if recording 4k @ 30 fps only). This was resolve within a month with the release of V02.00.300 (a beta release).

The term 'firmware' originated when the binary code was literally burned once onto Read Only Memory chips, thereafter it could not be amended without replacing the R.O.M chip.
Nowadays it is stored on non volatile EEPROM (Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory), which can be re-written many times if needed.

A CW Posted at 2018-6-18 11:10
Then fly it and stop moaning.

Can't, to windy.  

What have you got against people trying to get root cause of one problems solved, vs. continuing to put bandages  on young child, and shoving child to only stumble and fall again?

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-6-18 12:26
Can't, to windy.  

What have you got against people trying to get root cause of one problems solved, vs. continuing to put bandages  on young child, and shoving child to only stumble and fall again?

"Hi, its Hedgetimmer how can I help you?"

"I'm just calling to let you know that my drone is flying perfectly with no issues"

"Don't worry, I'll fix that for you"  

Hahahahahaha