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P3 Pro Camera sharpness - That bad..?
5937 38 2015-5-21
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christoffer
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Got some stills today from my new P3 Pro, captured in DNG and exported as JPG, qual 100% and no added sharpness, see attachment (from center of the image). Shot at ISO 100 @ 1/1250 sec. I must say I'm quite dissapointed with performance of the camera, that is if this is how "bad" it should be.. Anyone else experience this poor sharpness quality? Video is unsharp as well.
Comparing to my friends Inspire, whose DNG is tack on sharp under similar cirumstances.
And no, there is no dirt on the lens or lens protection, and the plastic film is removed when unpacking.

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2015-5-21
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bauaca
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I agree that the camera performance is point and shoot quality. The small sensor can only do so much. I really wish the photos were more usable.
2015-5-21
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memelivorno
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Like always, all entusiast of the camera at the beginning when a new phantom come out, but then at a close look most will be disappointed...unfortunately. I think that the camera should have been better, at least like a gopro
2015-5-22
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DJI-Autumn
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Can you upload a DNG file?
2015-5-22
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sploodge
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Silly question but you have said there is no dirt on the lense, is there any chance of some condersation or something.. Its not a normal photo for a P3 at all and should be MUCH better.. Like autumn has asked, can you post a DNG sample..

2015-5-22
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giant
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This is not a very good result. My pictures, taken with the P3 pro are much sharper and very usable. Being a photographer I'm used  to work with high quality photo's. The pic You are showing is been taken in motion or with a defect camera. My results are much better. It is realy a good camera, I mean not a DSLR but comparable to the better point and shoot camera's.
2015-5-22
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FantomDK
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memelivorno@gma Posted at 2015-5-22 17:04
Like always, all entusiast of the camera at the beginning when a new phantom come out, but then at a ...


The camera is comparable to a GoPro4. But with the advantage of a rectilinear lens (which still needs lens correction in my opinion, but it is A LOT less destructive than trying to fix a GoPro4 picture with its horrible fisheye). I can't really tell if that (cutout?) from a photo is particularly bad.

We could always wish for more. But lets face it - it is a small camera, comparable to a good point-and-shoot, not a DSLR or full-frame sensor etc. If you want a large camera flying you are talking a whole different animal. Much more complex, expensive and hassle.

One of the huge benefit of the Phantom 3 Pro camera is that you have a good deal of control over it and you can see what you shoot. And it is fantastic getting rid of the fisheye from the P2V+ and GoPros.

What I do most of the time, to maximize the output from the P3Pro camera is to shoot brackets (hold down the Shutter-button in the Pilot App, that opens a menu where you can select a number of shooting modes). Mostly 3-brackets, sometimes 5 if lighting conditions are really problematic or I want to be able to create a HDR-look. I then combine those and make HDR-photos that offer a great deal of freedom to tweak the look and get quality and detail in both dark and light areas. I also shoot in DNG and in LOG with 0 sharpness, -2 saturation, -2 contrast. That makes dull looking images out of the camera, but adds freedom to tweak the look, colors and contrast in post-production. I mainly use Lightroom 6 on a mac for photos.

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2015-5-22
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joanenricc
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Spain
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Hi! That's not nice, not at all. I would also like to see the DNG file...
2015-5-22
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christoffer
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Flight distance : 3789 ft
Sweden
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Thanks for replies.

No, I'm quite sure this is not the way it's supposed to look. Due to restrictions of file types and sizes of the forum, I'll attach a db-link to a DNG you people can have a look at:



https://www.dropbox.com/s/jqpmjcm89llfvnf/DJI_0015.DNG.zip?dl=0
2015-5-22
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FantomDK
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christoffer Posted at 2015-5-22 20:55
Thanks for replies.

No, I'm quite sure this is not the way it's supposed to look. Due to restrictio ...

I took the liberty of giving your photo a quick TLC in Lightroom.

DJI_0015 - Edit - 2015-05-21 - 14.26xx.jpg

I don't think its that bad? I can see some problems, but lighting was pretty rough and it looks like were in some pretty high wind there (looking at the waves) so it might have been shaking a bit when you took it even though the shutterspeed was really high.

For a picture like that you would likely have benefitted from my suggestion of shooting brackets (HDR). And then maybe also being lucky to shoot when the quadcopter wasn't moving around in the wind.

Just a thought - and trying to help a fellow Scandinavian    I don't think there is something wrong with your camera. I could be wrong. But it might be more about playing to the strenghts of the little DJI-camera and making the best of it.

PS: I dare you to zoom into almost any photo, and it always looks a bit bad. We rarely view photos at 1:1 zoom. If we watch an 8 megapixel iPhone6 photo on our phones, we're looking at a 1 megapixel screen (2 megapixel on the iPhone6Plus). That helps the illusion that the photo is really sharp.

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2015-5-22
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joanenricc
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Spain
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This other DNG looks better than the first...If you do some edit, it looks better...

But, is far away from DJI's marketing...
2015-5-22
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christoffer
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FantomDK, fellow Scandinavian, thank you for your extensive reply ;)

Now, In my most humble way, because I'm really happy to have all peoples views and ideas presented in this matter, though I have gone through several 100k raw images through lightroom in my proffesion, from different cameras, from  tiny micro-sensors to Hasselblads, I also dare to say that there is something very fishy with my P3 Camera. I personally think it's the lens that is not 100%, probably it's out of focus.  I'm hopefully getting ahold of a friends DNG from his inspire, then I will post it here. It's a world difference in details and texture, and I would have expected the result of the P3 Pro to be atleast similar of that of the Inspire, considering they share many  (all?) of the camera specifications. We will maybe even go out and have a double flight session, capturing some dng's and video to get exact comparison.

That picture I posted is part of a bracket serie, +-0EV, and I usually do post in LR as well. But, fact is that when viewing it in 100%, for example in the vegetation area, there is basically no texture at all, look more like green porridge. And no matter how much sharpness and clarity is added in post, it will still look like crap; shit in, shit out so to say..
Other than that, wind was mild breeze, about 4 - 5 m/s, so it was all super steady. Shot a few minutes of 4k video as well during this flight, and it's not sharp there either.

Anyway, keep on posting, and thanks for reply.. Hopefully getting ahold of more reference material from the Inspire.
2015-5-22
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steven.sdharris
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DNGs will always be a bit soft as they require more effort in post. Jpegs will be better but not as good as a sharpened DNG from Lightroom or Photoshop.

I would google a bit on sharpening images with the software you have and you are bound to find something to help.
2015-5-22
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brianmlevy
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Not sure what the problem is here. I have had excellent results even with jpg's although I generally photograph is RAW which gives considerably better results after a bit of work in Photoshop to process the image.
2015-5-22
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buzzcbr
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sploodge Posted at 2015-5-22 17:49
Silly question but you have said there is no dirt on the lense, is there any chance of some condersa ...

Sploodge - you on the Lizard by any chance?
2015-5-22
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christoffer
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True Steven, Raw format images are always soft in respect of sharpness, saturation etc etc to keep as much information as possible intact for Post. My problem is, the information of the DNG generated by the P3 is poor (lack of texture and detalis), hence there is nothing to improve in post in respect of sharpness and detail level.

Ok, so now I got a DNG from my friends Inspire. Basically same conditions, same shutter speed, same ISO etc. Compare the detail level, it's vast.

Phantom 3 Pro DNG: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jqpmjcm89llfvnf/DJI_0015.DNG.zip?dl=0

Inspire DNG: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tqj0zy8travawhp/Inspire.DNG.zip?dl=0
2015-5-22
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Daninho
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Germany
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that first file looks like a crop to me! Like its  zoomed in. Raw files are always soft and maybe your P3 was moving during that pictuer? Maybe to slow shutter settings? In photo mode the shutter speed must be very fast
2015-5-22
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steven.sdharris
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I've looked at both in Photoshop and both are soft, nothing that a quick bit of sharpening doesn't fix. The scenes are very different though so you are not comparing apple for apples, but sharpen the inspire image with a layer and toggle it on and off, look at the church spire, very soft as are the roof tiles on the building to the left. You only really notice it until the image is sharpened then not sharpened.

They're pretty good for low end cameras strapped to expensive flying machines.
2015-5-22
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chase45
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Ive been impressed with the quality of my pics, but then again I have also been impressed by the pics taken from my Galaxy S5 :0




2015-5-22
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gregg1r
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Chase, Whats' the name on the building slightly center left? I magnified the image and can't make the lighted building name out.
2015-5-22
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christoffer
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So a direct comparison between my P3 Pro and my friends Inspire; Left one is Phantom 3 Professional and right is from the Inspire 1. Pictures at 800x800 pixels from exactly the same spot of the sensors. And again, this is Raw (DNG) files with only slight exposure adjustments.

2015-5-22
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FantomDK
Second Officer

Denmark
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Tjena!

Thank you, and I agree with you.
Still, that Inspire-shot looks like a grainy mess... ;)

The difference is very clear. Even though grass is a tough thing to make good photos of compared to buildings that are much more clearly defined. It would be interesting to see you take a shot of similar subject with similar lighting. And make sure it is not an outlier with a lot of shake. (Was there a lot of DeGhosting to do if you try to combine the brackets into a HDR?).

If you say most your photos are that bad, I would absolutely suspect something being wrong. :@  Trying to get a replacement might be worth it.

You surely can't turn a turd into gold by editing the photo in Lightroom. But in my opinion you can help photos taken with the DJI Camera a long way.

Looking at the Inspire-photo, I would say that resembles what I get from my P3Pro even though it is difficult to tell exactly.

Good luck, I really really hope find a good solution.

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2015-5-22
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Fulgerite
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memelivorno@gma Posted at 2015-5-22 17:04
Like always, all entusiast of the camera at the beginning when a new phantom come out, but then at a ...

I disagree.  I own a GoPro HERO4.  I think the P3 camera has a much more useful lens.  And the P3 camera is better in low light as well.

So NO I do NOT agree a GoPro is better.  GoPro has that horrible fisheye lens that you have to de-fish before you can use the footage and that degrades the sharpness by 50% minimum.
2015-5-22
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Fulgerite
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christoffer   I am sorry to hear about your problem.  It looks like the lens focus may be off or mis-aligned.

DJI is building & shipping these cameras out as fast as they can...  I suspect quality control may be suffering for some.  Your image does look soft to me.  (As compared with the results I have been getting.)

Prop vibration can blur images too.  If it was especially windy or you have a prop that's not balanced it may be affecting your sharpness.

You might contact DJI about a replacement.  But don't hold your breath... I am sure they are backlogged with issues right now.  

2015-5-22
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FantomDK
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Denmark
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On a side-note; interesting to see that the Inspire 1 also suffers from a tilted horizon.

Not sure if I should be glad or sad to see that. At least it appears not to be an isolated Phantom 3-specific issue. (Honestly, it was an issue on the P2V+ too - but it wasn't immediately noticeable because of the fisheye-lens)

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2015-5-22
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bjorn
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FantomDK Posted at 2015-5-23 10:30
On a side-note; interesting to see that the Inspire 1 also suffers from a tilted horizon.

Not sure  ...

The image is from my Inspire 1. Yes the gimbal is sometimes wrongly calibrated at boot, but you can correct this in flight.
2015-5-22
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Ulysse
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I'm feeling the biggest problem is with the green colors.
2015-5-23
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FantomDK
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bjorn Posted at 2015-5-23 15:54
The image is from my Inspire 1. Yes the gimbal is sometimes wrongly calibrated at boot, but you ca ...

Nice photo, Bjørn.

Yes, it is the same on the P3. It will change duing flight. And it is possible to tweak it for a particular shot.

Lets hope they find a way to make it less of a problem. Even though it can be fixed in postproduction, it is annoying. Especially on video if we're changing direction which means it might change horizon tilt duing the same shot.

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2015-5-23
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FantomDK
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Ulysse Posted at 2015-5-23 22:41
I'm feeling the biggest problem is with the green colors.

Yeah, Green is difficult. Can you illustrate what you mean?
2015-5-23
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Ulysse
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green tones (trees, grass, ...) are usualy a pixel soup without any details.
2015-5-23
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FantomDK
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Ulysse Posted at 2015-5-24 02:37
green tones (trees, grass, ...) are usualy a pixel soup without any details.

Yeah, it is especially bad when shooting video and you have a lot of motion. Need to be careful in those situations.
2015-5-23
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Ulysse
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I'm not speaking about video but stills. 4K videos seem better.
2015-5-23
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Davidklein1
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Pics aren't amazing but they are decent enough from the P3. Just need to keep the camera steady and can't go too high with the ISO








2015-5-23
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FantomDK
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Ulysse Posted at 2015-5-24 02:44
I'm not speaking about video but stills. 4K videos seem better.

Well, if there is motion, detail like grass can get really bad - that is a compression issue.

If shooting raw photos there should not be a compression issue.

But the sensor/optics might still have trouble with that sort of subject.
2015-5-23
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FantomDK
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Davidklein1@gma Posted at 2015-5-24 03:03
Pics aren't amazing but they are decent enough from the P3. Just need to keep the camera steady and  ...

David, did you just shoot JPG and do no post-production?

I feel to get the maximum from the camera, shoot in RAW and shoot in brackets (3 or 5) to combine the differently exposed photos into one HDR-image where you then have a lot of editing-freedom to get the look and light you want. Adding sharpness can certainly help too.

Happy shooting
2015-5-23
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Davidklein1
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FantomDK Posted at 2015-5-24 03:34
David, did you just shoot JPG and do no post-production?

I feel to get the maximum from the camer ...

My first drone. I shoot raw and did a bit of contrast and unsharp mask, but  I am used to high end DSLRs so probably unfairly comparing it to that. Seems very noisey even in good light and low ISO. I haven't used the AEB so I will try that next time. I am enjoying flying it immensely and I was probably expecting too much.
Thanks for advice.
2015-5-23
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FantomDK
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David, you are right, it is a bit unfair comparing to high end DSLRs

I agree, the photos easily get a bit noisy. I usually do some noise-reduction too which helps - and again shooting brackets really does wonders in my opinion. Also, shots can be a bit unsharp, so I also always add some sharpening (not too much, and often I will use some masking to not sharpen the tinyest details).

I don't know what you use to edit (i use Lightroom 6) - and I always use Lens Correction using the DJI Inspire FC350 setting which works perfectly with the P3. That helps a lot to make that horizon and sharp lines almost perfectly straight. I think that helps the look a lot and sharpens the center part a bit.

I am very excited about the P3 camera because I mostly compare with the Phantom 2 Vision+ camera, and the P3 camera is vastly superior, also for stills even though the P3 only shoots 12 megapixel stills where the P2V+ shoots 14 megapixel stills. But as you know, megapixels are by no means the most important thing.
2015-5-23
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phantom.vestavu
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FantomDK Posted at 2015-5-22 21:16
I took the liberty of giving your photo a quick TLC in Lightroom.

Hi FantomDK,

May I aks what you did in Lightroom? I am also having troubles with photo's. The original version of this photo does not look very good, and you're version does.  Want to share you're secret?

Many thanks in advance.
Patrick
2015-5-26
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pcp.twcny
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United States
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I think there may be something wrong with your camera. My photos are much better than this with my P3 Pro.
2015-5-27
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