How often does one need to top of the P4P batteries when not using them?  I understand there is a slow discharge associated with storing batteries. I just don't know how fast they will go to zero and if they will be damaged if they do go to zero.

Hello there. Thanks for reaching our DJI Forum. Please keep the Intelligent Flight Battery away from water or damp environment. Battery level should stay between 45% and 65% when the Intelligent Flight Battery is to be stored for a long period. If the Intelligent Flight Battery is to be stored for more than three months, it should be fully charged and discharged once every three months to avoid over-discharging. I hope this help. Should you have other question, please let me know. Thank you.

Instead of storing them, how about going flying once in a while? ;-)


I have other bright ideas too. Haha


RedHotPoker

ATTA BOY RED

   

rwynant V1 Posted at 2018-8-11 17:49
ATTA BOY RED

In Ukrainian, yakshemash?? Haha


Yeah bro, all in, for the fun. Hey??



I’ve got a million of them...



RedHotPoker

EH,

You're in Canada EH........ EH?

Where abouts?

Randy

rwynant V1 Posted at 2018-8-11 18:06
EH,

You're in Canada EH........ EH?

The Alberta oil Capital, Edmonton...


Need fuel??  Hahahaha


RedHotPoker

RHP is the comedian of the P4P forum, I think.

I picked up on that right after I joined the DJI Forums.

Decent guy.

Almost...funny at times? .

Here is the battery leaflet text I have for new guys in our club / I get asked for ...

So you have just bought your first DJI Phantom - with proper setup and care - you will be amazed at its video and photographic possibilities.
Lets go through various aspects of this new acquisition. Note this primarily applies to Phantom 3 batterys but other DJI packs will not be too dissimilar and most can be applied also.

Many people new to Hobby Battery systems wonder how to treat these battery's. They are used to charging computers / mobile phones but when it comes to hobby batterys such as LiPo - the rules change.
DJI battery's,  while they are supposedly intelligent batteries, they fall short on various.

I hope the following can dispel some of the myths and misinformation that has grown up around the Phantom battery packs.

But first we have to consider opening the box and putting into service the whole system/

New Purchase:
You open the box and in eagerness want to get out and there and fly ! Please don't. Please resist that urge. There are a few items you need to do first.

a) Have latest DJI GO to register with DJI to activate the Aircraft (we shall call this AC).
b) Fully charged battery to ensure any updates / activation has sufficient battery power to complete.
c) Checked level floor for IMU calibration and identify a nice clean oustide area for Compass calibration. I suggest taking a hand held compass outside .. walk around and see where needle gets deflected - that is a spot you should stay away from. It could be pipes, cables, rebar etc. under the ground, overhead etc.

Follow the DJI tutorials for initial setup and calibrations. Youtube search will point you directly.

OK - you have setup your P3. I will not go into flight as that is something that you should practice and develop your own skill at. Just note that it is worth once reasonably happy with P-GPS mode - to swap to ATTI mode and fly manually to get used to a less stable AC. This skill will save you later when things start to get out of hand.

a) Never fly with a partial discharged battery.
b) I strongly suggest that the default 10 day discharge setting of GO be changed to 2 - 3 days for start of auto-discharge. This sets battery FW to user setting.
c) Do not deep discharge batterys every 20 flights or so - only do this rarely - as it accumulates damage to a LiPo. Even DJI themselves advise against it now. The claimed re-calibration is purely a mA in vs mA out counter in the battery control board. It can be useful to reset counter occasionally but it does not recover lost battery performance.
d) Try not to fly into the low battery warning zone. I leave my warnings at default - 30% low and 10% critical. I plan to land with about 30 - 35% battery level - which gives me a good storage level to bench my batterys.
e) Resist temptation to keep checking batterys - this resets auto discharge timer.
f) If you plan to not fly for significant period - then charge batterys fully. Place into storage and leave them alone. After a couple of weeks - check levels. If down to 2 led's - then charge again. Let auto discharge do its job. This way you will not enter hibernation mode and have any problems to use batterys months later.
g) A lot of talk about battery temperature - LiPo batterys are fine from 10C upwards. For some reason DJI decided to program the system so that we need to have a 'temperate warm' battery to fly. That is easily accomplished by placing battery inside your coat ... warmed in the car driving to site ... LiPo warming bags ... picnic bags with warmers in ... Many ways to accomplish this. It is a myth that you need to hover the AC if it is cold. If the AC powers up and takes off - that means battery is at working level and will fly. DJI AC do not fall out of sky for this !

Let us move on to after flight.

Batterys warm up when used. So it is good practice to allow the battery to cool before recharging.
Note that being a 4 cell pack and inside a case - the inner cells will take longer to cool down.
If you are not planning on flying for a while - then refer to point f) above. Some will advise charging partially etc. But the easiest and best way is via f). Charge up and let auto-discharge do its work. Note that the LED's are representative of 25% increments .. when flashing 12.5% - this means you are not that sure of what it really means when you see the LED's. BUt if you use the auto discharge system - you then know your batterys are being looked after. You just need to check every week or so. There are statements by some and also DJI that a figure of 50 - 60% charge level for storage is advised. This is actually not correct. LiPo manufacturers regardless of being standard 4.2C or High Voltage 4.35V per cell packs actually recc'd 30 - 50% with preference in the lower range. This is because it is a chemical action. But storage at 50% will not be significant problem if followed. Due to the often usual way these batterys are used - battery life can suffer more from various other factors such as leaving in a hot car, charging up too often, discharging too low etc.

DJI Battery Life : There are quotes around about the 200 cycle life of DJI batterys. My information is that 200 limit is no longer a shut off factor. But let us assume that battery reaches 200 charge cycles and does shut off. How do we get to 200 ? Not by each charge being a full cycle. In fact charge cycles are accumulative by adding partial cycles together. It is not a linear addition but suffice to say that the average owner will probably experience 400 - 500 or even more charges to accumulate 200 full cycle number.

Summary :
1) Always fly on a fully charged battery and I recc'd land when your battery level is around 30%.
2) Have auto discharge set to 2 - 3 days maximum and plug in every battery you have to AC to make sure Battery FW is updated to this setting.
2) Let your battery cool down before charging—somewhere around 30 minutes or until it is around room temperature.
3) If you fly and land to 30% - after about one week - charge your battery fully and let auto-discharge do its job to avoid battery entering Hibernation mode. Check each week or so for level and recharge if it falls below 2 LED's and let auto discharge work again.
4) Always top up charge before flight if battery stands for more than one day after charging. Switch on battery - then plug in charger to make sure top-up occurs.

I accept that this may disagree with some peoples views on the matter - but I base my suggestions on many years of LiPo use and a significant period of DJI ownership. My batterys perform ... and keep performing.

I wish all good flights and long battery life.

Nigel

As said at the end - I know some do not agree with my advice contained here, that is their choice and I do not argue. I base my suggestions on years of model flying and E-Power use. The only DJI battery I have had fail is due to the AC landing in a river and my not being able to rescue before significant electrical damage occurred. I have batterys DJI and others that are far older and still performing well.

Look after your LiPo's in sensible way and they will repay you with years of service.

DJI Natalia Posted at 2018-8-11 17:03
Hello there. Thanks for reaching our DJI Forum. Please keep the Intelligent Flight Battery away from water or damp environment. Battery level should stay between 45% and 65% when the Intelligent Flight Battery is to be stored for a long period. If the Intelligent Flight Battery is to be stored for more than three months, it should be fully charged and discharged once every three months to avoid over-discharging. I hope this help. Should you have other question, please let me know. Thank you.

Not looking for jokes for an answer to my question.  Let me put it another way.  I will be out of the country for 21 days (3 weeks).  If I fully charge two batteries before I leave will that be sufficient?  If not can I leave them in the charger plugged in and will they recharge themselves at a certain point?

solentlife Posted at 2018-8-11 19:32
Here is the battery leaflet text I have for new guys in our club / I get asked for ...

So you have just bought your first DJI Phantom - with proper setup and care - you will be amazed at its video and photographic possibilities.

What is "battery hibernation mode"?  How to avoid it?  How do you know if it is in hibernation and how do you get out of it?

DennisM Posted at 2018-8-11 19:54
Not looking for jokes for an answer to my question.  Let me put it another way.  I will be out of the country for 21 days (3 weeks).  If I fully charge two batteries before I leave will that be sufficient?  If not can I leave them in the charger plugged in and will they recharge themselves at a certain point?

If your only going away for 3 weeks then its simple just fully charge them before you go and they will be fine when you get back.
They will go into auto discharge mode by themselves and look after themselves whilst your gone once you return simply recharge them again before you fly.

DennisM ...

3 weeks is nothing and simply - charge up full. Place batterys in cool dark place away from any heat sources .. Let the auto-discharge circuitry look after them.

On returning home - charge them up again ... don't wait to go flying. Let the circuitry do its job. Then charge up before flying.

Hibernation mode :

Auto discharge kicks in at the days end that you set via Go. It then takes about 2 days to reach about 55 - 60% charge level. Auto Discharge then stops. But the battery as with all batterys - are subject to self discharge. This is very very slow and can take months to get to really low level. If you were to stand the battery for extended period and it did get to such super low level ... about 3.0v  per cell ... the battery circuit switches off totally and the battery circuit basically goes to sleep. The internal chemical / physical action though does not - it just is even slower as it has no 'circuit'. Once this happens - the battery appears not to want to charge when you connect charger. You get strange LED light effects.

Remedy :

Switch on battery - ignore the LED lights and leave battery alone for 5 minutes.
Connect charger DO NOT TOUCH BATTERY POWER BUTTON

Ignore all the lights and what you see !

Leave it connected and alone ... it may spring to life quickly - it could take all day ... but if battery is still functioning - it should after time start charging.

CHARGE FULLY .... and this is about the only time I recc'd discharging down to ONE LED ... and then charging back up full again. This is to make sure charge mAh counter in the chip resets.

You should now have a working battery.

Hibernation mode I believe is the fault that occasionally buyers get with 'batterys' bought from dealers with very slow sales !! Stock sat on shelf too long.

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2018-8-11 19:32
Here is the battery leaflet text I have for new guys in our club / I get asked for ...

So you have just bought your first DJI Phantom - with proper setup and care - you will be amazed at its video and photographic possibilities.

Aloha Nigel,

     Your information was so good,  I edited out some typos and turned it into a couple .jpg.  They are below.  I also have it in .pdf form if I can get that to you.





Aloha and Drone On!

Good work, Ken. Cleaning that up.

Not atrocious, but still. Hahaha


RedHotPoker

iamjustjohn Posted at 2018-8-11 18:49
RHP is the comedian of the P4P forum, I think.

I picked up on that right after I joined the DJI Forums.

I get that a lot. And I Love it..
It’s heart felt, you know?. ;-)



RedHotPoker

solentlife Posted at 2018-8-11 19:32
Here is the battery leaflet text I have for new guys in our club / I get asked for ...

So you have just bought your first DJI Phantom - with proper setup and care - you will be amazed at its video and photographic possibilities.

You know Nigel, you are a very intelligent individual and I respect your knowledge. You have a lot of knowledge about batteries, but I think you post way over some peoples heads, especially new bees.

First of all, new users should Always follow the instructions that came with there Drones, therefore if there is a problem then DJi is responsible for that problem. Using third party chargers for there equipment is probably not a good idea because DJi will not support third party equipment.

Most of the Droners out here are experienced Droners and have learned how to handle battery charging through there experiences and practice. There are a lot of smart individuals out here and should be spoken to as such. Please consider that in your future posts.

Andy J

Check out my tips for storing and maintaining DJI batteries. If you follow those tips exactly, your batteries will likely last a long time.

Thanks all for the information.  I feel like I went from zero (knowledge) to 90 in just a handful of posts.

ATJ Posted at 2018-8-12 03:38
You know Nigel, you are a very intelligent individual and I respect your knowledge. You have a lot of knowledge about batteries, but I think you post way over some peoples heads, especially new bees.

First of all, new users should Always follow the instructions that came with there Drones, therefore if there is a problem then DJi is responsible for that problem. Using third party chargers for there equipment is probably not a good idea because DJi will not support third party equipment.

Well I'm sorry you feel that way. The OP asked a question that indicates this is not a veteran user of DJI gear.

A guy asks a question and instead of just posting a few lines - I cut and pasted a leaflet that I created way back to help newcomers to the hobby.
Its actually a revamp of an older version BEFORE DJI appeared, a LiPo usage paper produced for publication in fact ... I altered to make it relevant to DJI packs.

As I plainly say - I know that some differ in their handling and maintenance - that is their choice. My view is that the battery's and our hobby are served more by providing a wider coverage of answer. There is no intent to insult or imply that I know better than many here. If I wanted to insult - I am sure RHP can attest to that .As to using third party chargers etc. - you have obviously followed my other posts elsewhere and added that to this for 'spice'. As to warranty - you should read DJI warranty when it comes to batterys and you will find that basically there are very few instances you win ! The disclaimers are awesome ! Second that the third party charger becomes a power brick just the same as DJI's but with a digital display of what's happening.  
Therefore you and I shall differ - that is fine by me.

Nigel

Cetacean Posted at 2018-8-11 22:14
Aloha Nigel,

     Your information was so good,  I edited out some typos and turned it into a couple .jpg.  They are below.  I also have it in .pdf form if I can get that to you.

Fine - no probs ... my hope is that it helps many who enter our hobby to at least gain a footing to understanding the battery packs.

As to typo's ... with respect - remember I am a Brit and do not write in Microsoft US English. I do note a few grammar errors and capitalisations .... I have fat fingers on a modern keyboard designed for slim digits !

The text is a highly modified version to relate to DJI packs - the original was a walk-through of common LiPo handling written for publication some years ago.

Cheers
Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2018-8-12 08:53
Fine - no probs ... my hope is that it helps many who enter our hobby to at least gain a footing to understanding the battery packs.

As to typo's ... with respect - remember I am a Brit and do not write in Microsoft US English. I do note a few grammar errors and capitalisations .... I have fat fingers on a modern keyboard designed for slim digits !

Aloha Nigel,

     Ya mean you are not Latvian!  I know what you mean about thick fingers.  I use a curved and spread keyboard myself and turn phones sideways for texting.  What a pain.

     Your piece is good and now it can be sent to others in a more easy fashion.  I value that input.  So what country is your second story workshop you are constructing in, Iran, Latvia or England?

     Your comments are noted.  I did take the liberty of reorienting your article toward DJI customers and my own experience.  My apologies for taking liberty, I know that is a touchy subject for Americans speaking to the English!

Aloha and Drone On!

"Ya mean you are not Latvian!  I know what you mean about thick fingers.  I use a curved and spread keyboard myself and turn phones sideways for texting.  What a pain.

     Your piece is good and now it can be sent to others in a more easy fashion.  I value that input.  So what country is your second story workshop you are constructing in, Iran, Latvia or England?"

I am a true blue Brit ... but I live in Latvia, with my office at home and in Dubai.

The workshop is being built at home in Latvia.

My work takes me all over the world, into some unusual places at times, including war-zones.

Cheers
Nigel

DJI Natalia Posted at 2018-8-11 17:03
Hello there. Thanks for reaching our DJI Forum. Please keep the Intelligent Flight Battery away from water or damp environment. Battery level should stay between 45% and 65% when the Intelligent Flight Battery is to be stored for a long period. If the Intelligent Flight Battery is to be stored for more than three months, it should be fully charged and discharged once every three months to avoid over-discharging. I hope this help. Should you have other question, please let me know. Thank you.

Does this apply to the RC battery as well? I have 2 Phantom 4's and I use all the quad batteries regularly, but I switch off between the 2 drones every 6 months or so. This means I have 1 controller that sits unused for a few months, does this auto discharge as well? Does it matter what level the RC battery is at when I put it in storage for a few months?

The Controller battery has no auto discharge function but will self discharge very slowly.

It is generally considered that because the Controller is only asked to provide low power - that degradation of the controller battery is not so much a problem.

Technically ? - yes it would be better to discharge the controller battery down to between 30 and 50% to store. Easily done by leaving switched on and monitoring via APP etc.

Practically ? - personally I just leave the controller as last used and charge up occasionally to full when I see its down to low level. This means that for majority of time - its stored with partial charged battery anyway.Also that most controllers / Transmitters use Voltage Regulator / Stabilizers in the power to the boards. With the low power demand - it means this regulation maintains good working power even when battery is low level - unlike the aircraft, which has a high power demand.

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2018-8-12 08:48
Well I'm sorry you feel that way. The OP asked a question that indicates this is not a veteran user of DJI gear.

A guy asks a question and instead of just posting a few lines - I cut and pasted a leaflet that I created way back to help newcomers to the hobby.

“There is no intent to insult or imply that I know better than many here. If I wanted to insult - I am sure RHP can attest to that .“

Make sure you mention me, as you have a knack for showing your love for the Poker and other fellow Canadians as well.






RedHotPoker

RHP ... I do not regard nationality as anything to deride or insult. I have no problem with Canadians as you state. What I have a problem with is certain type of people or their style.

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2018-8-12 18:38
"Ya mean you are not Latvian!  I know what you mean about thick fingers.  I use a curved and spread keyboard myself and turn phones sideways for texting.  What a pain.

     Your piece is good and now it can be sent to others in a more easy fashion.  I value that input.  So what country is your second story workshop you are constructing in, Iran, Latvia or England?"

Aloha Nigel,

     Whoa!  Oddly enough this came through over the years which is why I asked since it appeared things had changed, like the Iran location.

     So, are we due for an update on the shop?

Aloha and Drone On!

May I ask one thing here:
I have a Phantom 4 Pro+ v2.0 and I also have the charging hub that holds 3 batteries. In that hub, you can switch between charge and store. If I won't be using the batteries (fly) for let's say 2-3 months, I will then use my hub, set it to store, and charge them up until it's finished. But after 10 days or so, the discharge will kick in and the batteries will start to slowly discharge themself, right?
Shall I check the battery level, let's say every month, and if needed put them back in the hub, set it to store and do it all over again, and keep on doing that month after month until the day I will fly again?
Is that a good idea to keep the batteries in a good condition/safe?

Big thanks for answers!
Regards

Viprex Posted at 2018-8-13 23:00
May I ask one thing here:
I have a Phantom 4 Pro+ v2.0 and I also have the charging hub that holds 3 batteries. In that hub, you can switch between charge and store. If I won't be using the batteries (fly) for let's say 2-3 months, I will then use my hub, set it to store, and charge them up until it's finished. But after 10 days or so, the discharge will kick in and the batteries will start to slowly discharge themself, right?
Shall I check the battery level, let's say every month, and if needed put them back in the hub, set it to store and do it all over again, and keep on doing that month after month until the day I will fly again?

I think checking them every month is pointless, because there is no way to know how much power is in them, you can't trust the lights!

DJI recommends that you fully charge them once every 3 months, this should keep them in good condition.  After the 100% charge, you can use them to fly, or just leave them to self discharge, either way you should leave them at 50% or more to start the next 3 months and don't miss out the 100% charge.  

Your charging hub doesn't make any difference except that if you fly and end up at less than 50%, it can save time by automatically only recharging to 50% instead of 100%, however the initial charge after storage of more than 24 hours must be to 100%.

As long as the battery firmware is up to date, I wouldn't worry about going over the 3 months by a bit, but don't leave them more than 6 months.

I notice that people with charging hubs seem to have more problems than people without, I suspect this may be because they are only charging to 50% and missing out the 100% charge.

Viprex Posted at 2018-8-13 23:00
May I ask one thing here:
I have a Phantom 4 Pro+ v2.0 and I also have the charging hub that holds 3 batteries. In that hub, you can switch between charge and store. If I won't be using the batteries (fly) for let's say 2-3 months, I will then use my hub, set it to store, and charge them up until it's finished. But after 10 days or so, the discharge will kick in and the batteries will start to slowly discharge themself, right?
Shall I check the battery level, let's say every month, and if needed put them back in the hub, set it to store and do it all over again, and keep on doing that month after month until the day I will fly again?

I think checking them every month is pointless, because there is no way to know how much power is in them, you can't trust the lights!

DJI recommends that you fully charge them once every 3 months, this should keep them in good condition.  After the 100% charge, you can use them to fly, or just leave them to self discharge, either way you should leave them at 50% or more to start the next 3 months and don't miss out the 100% charge.  

Your charging hub doesn't make any difference except that if you fly and end up at less than 50%, it can save time by automatically only recharging to 50% instead of 100%, however the initial charge after storage of more than 24 hours must be to 100%.

As long as the battery firmware is up to date, I wouldn't worry about going over the 3 months by a bit, but don't leave them more than 6 months.

I notice that people with charging hubs seem to have more problems than people without, I suspect this may be because they are only charging to 50% and missing out the 100% charge.

solentlife Posted at 2018-8-12 08:48
Well I'm sorry you feel that way. The OP asked a question that indicates this is not a veteran user of DJI gear.

A guy asks a question and instead of just posting a few lines - I cut and pasted a leaflet that I created way back to help newcomers to the hobby.

Nigel,
I appreciate your info and certainly learn from it and will follow your advice.

Al

Big thanks for your answer Nigel, very helpful!

Viprex Posted at 2018-8-14 06:26
Big thanks for your answer Nigel, very helpful!

Don't forget the controller, that is not much different except that it doesn't have auto discharge so you should discharge it to around 50% manually.  We don't tend to worry much about the controller battery but if it wears out before you've finished with it then it is far more inconvenient to replace than the aircraft batteries.  A recharge to full every 3 months and discharge to around 50% for storage could be very good for it.

Also the aircraft may benefit from being powered up every 3 months too, all those big capacitors on the ESC boards will benefit from some exercise, far more likely to fail if they don't get charged for long periods. Probably the GPS memory capacitor too.

Viprex Posted at 2018-8-13 23:00
May I ask one thing here:
I have a Phantom 4 Pro+ v2.0 and I also have the charging hub that holds 3 batteries. In that hub, you can switch between charge and store. If I won't be using the batteries (fly) for let's say 2-3 months, I will then use my hub, set it to store, and charge them up until it's finished. But after 10 days or so, the discharge will kick in and the batteries will start to slowly discharge themself, right?
Shall I check the battery level, let's say every month, and if needed put them back in the hub, set it to store and do it all over again, and keep on doing that month after month until the day I will fly again?

I don't think there's a need to check them every month.  Mine rarely go that long unused, but if it's been over 45 days, I'll charge them up.

Cetacean Posted at 2018-8-13 22:11
Aloha Nigel,

     Whoa!  Oddly enough this came through over the years which is why I asked since it appeared things had changed, like the Iran location.

Work has taken over and I had halted workshop build .... but its due to restart shortly. I need to finish before winter starts creeping round.

Lets say "Watch this space" !!

Cheers
Nigel

Hellsgate Posted at 2018-8-13 00:32
[view_image]

I love your 3D glasses?  Were they made on a 3D printer? Hahaha









RedHotPoker

solentlife Posted at 2018-8-13 04:58
RHP ... I do not regard nationality as anything to deride or insult. I have no problem with Canadians as you state. What I have a problem with is certain type of people or their style.

Nigel

You know that you’re truly Loved. Yeah, when your self favourite portrait gets memes...



Fishing for looose wires... haha

RedHotPoker

Sorry RHP - but enough is enough - you are reported for Trolling and Offensive content.

I have no problem making this known to all that I have reported you. This is not first time as I am sure you are aware.

I can also inform you of the fact that I have received many private messages from others who are similarly fed up with your childish posts. It would be tolerable IF you actually posted anything of actual worth - but you don't.

Grow up or move on somewhere else where your childish actions might be more appreciated. I believe they call such places Kindergartens.

Nigel