This looks very authentic, and very close, it’s easy to see with collision , anything can happen, fortunately it didn’t this time.

That drone pilot is a jerk. That stuff isn't cute.

Disagree with announcer's reading of FAA rules of Part c.  




What rule states is - When a Helicpoter is over open water or sparsely populated area, a Helicopter can be flown below 500-feet so long as Helicopter does not come within 500-feet of person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
The Helicopter was not in a sparsely populated area.  Nor was Helicopter over open water flying that close and parallel to beach.
Going with video evidence that drone was flying below 400-feet, and Helicopter passes below drone that would put Helicopter in violation of Part c.  Whether Helicopter had specific permission to ignore Part c, is as of yet an unknown.

Issue for drone pilot appears to be him or her flying within Airport's Controlled Flight space.  Being planes taking off and landing at nearby airport would have to clear buildings (some taller than 400-feet) along shore line.  Perhaps drone pilot had permission from Airport's tower to fly below 400-feet in that area?  

Something I have not seen mentioned is Helicopter had a camera pod hanging down from it.  Kind of pod used on News and LEO (police) helicopters.  Possibility that helicopter was patrolling beach front area.

Still would like to see what FAA officially has to say, about drone and helicopter's altitudes, whether either had permission, and FAA's decision as to violations.

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-8-18 22:59
Disagree with announcer's reading of FAA rules of Part c.  

Yes all that could be the case, but a couple of things, it’s the drone pilots responsibility to watch out and give way to manned aircraft, if helicopter was flying at low altitude could he have had permission which would clear him.
If ATC gave drone pilot permission, that permission should always be with the warning to watch out for low flying aircraft, likewise if ATC gave permission to drone pilot then it should also have warned helicopter pilot of drone flying in the vicinity.
The drone pilot never mentioned anything regarding permission , I would have thought to simply defend himself that he would have opened with this.
What video does capture, is when you see how close helicopter is to people and property and speed, that hitting something as small as MPP , something catastrophic could happen.

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-8-19 00:43
Yes all that could be the case, but a couple of things, it’s the drone pilots responsibility to watch out and give way to manned aircraft, if helicopter was flying at low altitude could he have had permission which would clear him.
If ATC gave drone pilot permission, that permission should always be with the warning to watch out for low flying aircraft, likewise if ATC gave permission to drone pilot then it should also have warned helicopter pilot of drone flying in the vicinity.
The drone pilot never mentioned anything regarding permission , I would have thought to simply defend himself that he would have opened with this.

I fully agree and no matter what the specific circumstances have been it is a fundamental rule to give way to manned aircrafts in a safe distance.

most important,  when lives are at risk!!!

Seems basic understanding of the location was lacking - anyone who has been to Florida will have seen the daily low level 'sight seeing' flights made by private pilots up and down the beach fronted properties. Also pretty obvious that Police/ES and various Military craft also fly up and down the coastline at low altitude. Just have to keep pushing the message to use common sense in each location and stick to the defined regulations. All that said, nothing is risk free and accidents happen every day - just it takes actual personal experience for people the really understand what the consequences are in the event of such. Fly safe.

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-8-18 22:59
Disagree with announcer's reading of FAA rules of Part c.  

The rules are simple, regardless what the helicopter is or isnt cleared to do, the unmanned operator is legally responsible for maintaining separation.  By definition, its always the drone drivers fault.

If you know there are low flying aircraft in the area why would you choose to fly there?
Looking on the video the drone was high, maybe 400ft, likely more than 400ft.  Also 400ft doesn't take into account the helicopter may be using a different QNH/QFE on the altimeter which can make quite a difference.

The heli is carrying a camera pod so most likely engaged in some sort of survey work which can mandate a lower altitude.

Saw this on another DJI POST

Just my opinion:
From what I could tell if the Drone and Helicopter were at the same altitude nether would of been able to avoid a crash. Unless the Drone Pilot was flying by FAA rule and flying  within visual line-of-sight. He would of seen the helicopter and give way to manned aircraft as Watchberger said in post #5.

This guys are not directly helping us that try to act responsible, that's for sure.

What happened needs to be better analyzed than simply saying who's at fault.  Hopefully FAA will do that.  Otherwise, something similar is going to happen again.


Hard to be sure from video, but it looks like drone pilot would have had about 4-seconds to react.  Going by small dot of helicopter off in distance being recognized as approaching aircraft.  Assuming drone pilot is standing on beach, drone pilot would be in VLOS of drone.  With Drone by video flying below 400-feet.  

Be honest, how many drone pilots (remember most are not Part 107  certified and most are John/Jane Q. Public) would expect Helicopter  flying below 500-feet?   That is most common flight rule we hear about - that manned aircraft are supposed to fly above 500-feet except for taking off  and landing.

If drone pilot were strictly flying by VLOS, Helicopter would be coming from far right of where drone Pilot is watching.  Let's say drone pilot does spot Helicopter roughly 4-seconds away.  This is where things get dicey.

The drone pilot is looking at upward angle at his / her drone.  At same time, drone pilot is in real time looking at approaching helicopter from both upward angle and rapidly decreasing sideways angle.   Continuing on...

I would submit at rapidly closing speed of helicopter, time given to  react, position in sky of drone, and changing sideways angle, it would  be next to impossible for drone pilot to know what to do strictly VLOS.   In this particular case, had drone pilot commanded drone to come closer  to beach and descend (initial instinct to give way), there is a good  chance that drone would have flown right into path of helicopter.

As we can see in video, strictly watching Live View is a dangerous.  Had drone not turned 90-degrees to left when it did, rapidly approaching Helicopter would never have been seen until Helicopter passed in front and below drone.  

Leading to need for drone pilot to be both watching VLOS and Live View video feed.  Still, it is not initially clear in video that Helicopter is going to pass below and to right side of drone.


As stated before and at Top - Need to see what FAA's investigation and report has to say.

B1houdini Posted at 2018-8-19 08:19
Saw this on another DJI POST

Just my opinion:

Its not always the case.  Helicopters (moving at speed) can easily appear out of earshot and sight giving only a little bit of notice.
HOWEVER...  In this case its an area well known for low level helicopters flying up and down that beach line so the guy should have taken that into account before deciding to fly there and the conduct of the flight.
The problem with FPV (be it screen or goggles) is you have no situational awareness at all.  In aviation terms, VFR flight you're ALWAYS looking out and in all directions.  You do an instrument scan but the main focus attention is looking in all directions methodically outside.
A drone is an exception they make to the rules for drone users - that simply isn't possible or done so the user has almost no awareness of the 360 picture around them.  Thats why VLOS exists as a guide or rule because it assumes you're close enough to see or at least hear nearby traffic.  However, a person buried in the screen, accessing menus or whatever really doesnt have that awareness.  And its REALLY hard on screen to spot a small 2 pixel fast growing dot in time even if it is towards you.

B1houdini Posted at 2018-8-19 08:19
Saw this on another DJI POST

Just my opinion:

I am not so sure that drone Pilot strictly flying by VLOS would have spotted the Helicopter till it was to late to decide what commands to send to drone.  

Someone would say drone pilot would have heard Helicopter coming from right side (assuming drone pilot was standing on beach).  However, spotting moving Helicopter is another matter.

On several occasions I have heard Helicopters before spotting them.  The sound of Helicopters only gave me a big window to look in.   Last time it was three military Helicopters, and it took a couple of seconds to spot them.

gnirtS Posted at 2018-8-19 04:43
The rules are simple, regardless what the helicopter is or isnt cleared to do, the unmanned operator is legally responsible for maintaining separation.  By definition, its always the drone drivers fault.

If you know there are low flying aircraft in the area why would you choose to fly there?

If you know there are low flying aircraft in the area why would you choose to fly there?

Other than being near airport which would be on inland side of buildings - Why would common drone pilot expect "low flying aircraft" there along beach?   Keeping in mind a landing aircraft or taking off aircraft's flight path would have it hitting one of buildings if aircraft were to be flying lower than 400 feet.  From common drone pilot's perspective it would seem to be a good place to fly a drone.


Most drone pilots (remember drones are being sold everywhere, you can buy drones even at cellular stores and large gas stations), are not going to expect a Helicopter to be flying parallel to beach, at high rate speed, and below 400-feet.  Most drone pilots are common average person**.


We get people here from time to time that are having problems, and they haven't even bothered to read the manual.  We got people here that think because they have read the manual and have Cert 107, they are drone experts.


These kinds of close calls are going to continue, unless incidents are looked at, and well thought out steps are taken.  Instead of jumping to who's at Fault.


** Common Average Person

gnirtS Posted at 2018-8-19 08:51
Its not always the case.  Helicopters (moving at speed) can easily appear out of earshot and sight giving only a little bit of notice.
HOWEVER...  In this case its an area well known for low level helicopters flying up and down that beach line so the guy should have taken that into account before deciding to fly there and the conduct of the flight.
The problem with FPV (be it screen or goggles) is you have no situational awareness at all.  In aviation terms, VFR flight you're ALWAYS looking out and in all directions.  You do an instrument scan but the main focus attention is looking in all directions methodically outside.

Thats why VLOS exists as a guide or rule because it assumes you're close enough to see or at least hear nearby traffic.

Latter would be a poor assumption.  As far as I have seen or read, there are no requirments that drone pilot be able to hear.  No hearing tests are required.

Put another way, drone pilot could be hard of hearing or deaf.

Lamplighter55 Posted at 2018-8-19 04:13
Seems basic understanding of the location was lacking - anyone who has been to Florida will have seen the daily low level 'sight seeing' flights made by private pilots up and down the beach fronted properties. Also pretty obvious that Police/ES and various Military craft also fly up and down the coastline at low altitude. Just have to keep pushing the message to use common sense in each location and stick to the defined regulations. All that said, nothing is risk free and accidents happen every day - just it takes actual personal experience for people the really understand what the consequences are in the event of such. Fly safe.

All that said, nothing is risk free and accidents happen every day - just it takes actual personal experience for people the really understand what the consequences are in the event of such.

Preach!
People still won't wear seat beats.  Despite all driver training movies / videos showing people ejected from vehicles for failing to wear seat belts.

Despite decades of people knowing dangers of smoking, and Big-Brother discouraging smoking, people still do.
Even though there has been studies showing that talking on a cellphone while driving is equivalent of 1 to 2 mixed drinks, people still Chat and drive.
Despite making it Illegal to Text and drive (at least in these here parts), drivers still do!

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-8-19 09:21
If you know there are low flying aircraft in the area why would you choose to fly there?

Other than being near airport which would be on inland side of buildings - Why would common drone pilot expect "low flying aircraft" there along beach?   Keeping in mind a landing aircraft or taking off aircraft's flight path would have it hitting one of buildings if aircraft were to be flying lower than 400 feet.  From common drone pilot's perspective it would seem to be a good place to fly a drone.

Well if you know the area or have observed aircraft flying there commonly then you could make an educated guess about it.
Ive seen that area, there are tons of helicopters up and down there following the beach line at low level.

Again it all boils down to an operator (wont call them pilots, theyre not) judgement as to whether the flight can be conducted safely or not.  They are 100% responsible for the safety of that flight and separation from manned aircraft.

As you said though, the main problem is the average drone operator is lazy and doesn't think.  Most can't even be bothered to read the manual yet alone find out the rules or if flying is allowed or safe in an area and thats a problem.
People are buying drones now who really shouldn't be.

Some people were very lucky that day.