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11shots
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Hello everyone,
   
   In the upcoming week I'll be doing some contract photo work for a cruise line.
   
   After months of planning and hours of form filling, the FAA process and much   more, I've been granted access to fly my drone from the ship while it's at a standstill   in Hubbard Glacier. The Cruise line wanted to me to fly while the ship was   moving a slow pace of 5knots but I don't feel very comfortable with that.   However, I was informed that the ship will come to a complete stop for about   40 minutes. During this 40 minute stand still, I plan to fly if the   conditions are right. They will be blocking off the sports court for the duration   of my flight giving me more than enough room to take off and land. Aside from the   obvious, Before the flight I plan to:
   
   
   
   
·           Calibrate   IMU on land the day prior.
   
·           Set my   home point to Dynamic so that my RC is the return-to-home   point.
   
·           Return back to the ship at 40% battery
   
   
What else would you all recommended for   preflight and also during flight? I've read about turning off VPS, but I don't   plan to fly under 65'
   
so I don't think its necessary. I look forward to hearing   your thoughts and thanks in advanced for your help.
   
   
Best Regards,
   
   
Jason
   
   
   
   
   
   
  


2018-8-22
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ALABAMA
Captain
Flight distance : 10442687 ft
United States
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Don't take off near any steel surroundings.  That may be difficult on a ship.
2018-8-22
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solentlife
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Flight distance : 1087530 ft
Latvia
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Thats going to be the interesting part - If the drone will accept being on a steel ship and not throw its hand in with the magnetic effects to compass etc.

I am certainly going to follow this thread to see results ...

Nigel
2018-8-22
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Nigel_
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United Kingdom
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What aircraft is it?

If you have a good working IMU calibration, don't mess it up the day before you fly!  Use the known good working one, same goes for all the other calibrations, especially the compass.

Try to arrange that you don't take off from a steel deck, it will probably be OK, but much better to take off from on top of an upturned plastic bucket that you know wont affect the compasses, or preferably something a bit taller and non-metallic.

Practice some atti flying before you go, just in case.

Also practice using the map to navigate.  If you know how to fly back using the map then there is little additional risk in flying from a 5 knot ship, and the wake it leaves will be well worth having in the photos.  Make sure the captain knows not to speed up until you are back on deck and only take photos and video of the ship and background scenery, don't stop to photo glaciers or the ship will soon leave the aircraft far behind without you noticing.

Leave VPS on and fly normally, just don't get too close to the water and stick to what you are familiar with doing.

Remember that even at anchor, the ship can move far enough that RTH will not land on deck!  So practice using RTH to bring it back overhead and then manual landing, plus practice using the map to bring it back overhead followed by manual landing.  The home point shown on the map may not be on deck by the time you get back even with the ship at anchor so simulate this by moving a ship length away from the home point for your landings.
2018-8-22
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Nigel_
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solentlife Posted at 2018-8-22 07:02
Thats going to be the interesting part - If the drone will accept being on a steel ship and not throw its hand in with the magnetic effects to compass etc.

I am certainly going to follow this thread to see results ...


Ships are normally made from demagnetised steel, and the superstructure is often aluminium, so it is probably OK.  But don't get near any machinery like big winches, although even the winch motors tend to be hydraulic motors which don't affect the compass.
2018-8-22
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11shots
lvl.1

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solentlife Posted at 2018-8-22 07:02
Thats going to be the interesting part - If the drone will accept being on a steel ship and not throw its hand in with the magnetic effects to compass etc.

I am certainly going to follow this thread to see results ...

Thankfully the flight will be the last day of my trip so you know... worst case. & I will certainly post my shots once back!
2018-8-22
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11shots
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Nigel_ Posted at 2018-8-22 07:08
What aircraft is it?

If you have a good working IMU calibration, don't mess it up the day before you fly!  Use the known good working one, same goes for all the other calibrations, especially the compass.

I have the P4 Advanced.

The day before, I'll be flying on land so I'll see how well the bird flies on that setup and go from there.  

I'm comfortable flying in atti, but ill definitely  get some more practice in these next couple of days. &  your right, It would be epic to get that wake from ship. Honestly a dream shot. Also the captain is fully aware of the flight and I'll make sure my bird doesn't get left behind!

Also, I've always landed manually since day one. I did RTH  once and it was the most painful thing to watch. Since then I've always landed manually.

I truly appreciate your response Nigel and look forward to hearing back from you!
2018-8-22
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Nigel_
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11shots Posted at 2018-8-22 07:20
Thankfully the flight will be the last day of my trip so you know... worst case. & I will certainly post my shots once back!

In that case, make sure that there is nothing valuable on the memory card that you send up in the aircraft!


I suggest you do have some practice with RTH, it does work well and may come in useful some day, if you know how to use it.  But definitely make sure you understand how to use that map, just in case the ship manages to get out of sight of the camera, it is very easy to get lost at sea.  
2018-8-22
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11shots
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Nigel_ Posted at 2018-8-22 07:51
In that case, make sure that there is nothing valuable on the memory card that you send up in the aircraft!

Will do Nigel! Thanks again!
2018-8-22
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Labroides
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11shots Posted at 2018-8-22 07:36
I have the P4 Advanced.

The day before, I'll be flying on land so I'll see how well the bird flies on that setup and go from there.  

The day before, I'll be flying on land so I'll see how well the bird flies on that setup and go from there.  
There should never be any need to recalibrate anything wherever you fly.
Don't mess around recalibrating anything.

I've always landed manually since day one. I did RTH  once and it was the most painful thing to watch. Since then I've always landed manually.

Never launch from or land on steel surfaces.
You will need to hand catch and also hand launch to keep the Phantom high above the steel decks.
Practise and get familiar with the techniques on land until you can do it safely and easily.
It may help to have a helper to hold the drone for hand launching.
Google will find videos to show you how to do that safely.

Set my home point to Dynamic so that my RC is the return-to-home point.

The Phantom does not have a dynamic home point.
You can reset the home point to the current location of the controller but if the ship isn't moving that won't be necessary.
As long as you can see the ship, you should be able to fly back to it quite easily.
2018-8-22
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jimm00re
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When I know I will be taking off from any ground that may cause interference, I lift off from a large Pellican case. This was a tip from Flytpath (to give credit).  This has eliminated all issues I've come accross but I haven't flown from a ship...  Best of luck - sounds awesome.
2018-8-22
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solentlife
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Flight distance : 1087530 ft
Latvia
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Nigel_ Posted at 2018-8-22 07:11
Ships are normally made from demagnetised steel, and the superstructure is often aluminium, so it is probably OK.  But don't get near any machinery like big winches, although even the winch motors tend to be hydraulic motors which don't affect the compass.

Come again ?

17yrs as a senior Ships Deck Officer ... Qualified in Ships Design ....

I am fully aware of Alloy use in structures to reduce top-hamper. As to De-magnetosed steel !! Yeh well ...

No need for Kelvins Balls then on the Standard Compass ... ships just fit them for cosmetics and fun ?

Ships plating is High Tensile steel rolled.

Nigel
2018-8-23
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Labroides
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solentlife Posted at 2018-8-23 04:36
Come again ?

17yrs as a senior Ships Deck Officer ... Qualified in Ships Design ....

I'm with Solentlife on this one.
You can't just fit a regular compass to a steel vessel because of the magnetic field of all that steel.
You need a compass with special compensation features.
The ship's steel might not be magnetised .. but it has a magnetic field, just like any large steel objects do.


2018-8-23
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solentlife
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Labroides Posted at 2018-8-23 05:05
I'm with Solentlife on this one.
You can't just fit a regular compass to a steel vessel because of the magnetic field of all that steel.
You need a compass with special compensation features.

The Compass fitted to a Merchant Vessel is a big standard needle based compass normally of about 12" diameter. It is placed high up on the monkey island deck as far as away from the hull as possible.

But it has to have soft iron ball fitted to rail each side. These balls are adjusted for distance from the centre by a Compass Adjustor. They are called Kelvin Balls. Quite often for cosmetics painted red and green as per which side fitted.

each navigation watch is expected to obtain a compass error by sun or celestial ... many mistakenly believe it to be to assess the Gyro Compass error. Wrong. It is to assess the error of the Standard magnetic compass in case of failure of electronic means. From the Compass Error can be derived Ships  Deviation for that course / heading ... along with of course as a side benefit - the slight error of Gyro Compass.
If the ship was not producing magnetic influences from its steel - then there really would be no need for so frequent checking or deviation tables on board.

Even my GRP sail boat with a diesel lump in the bilges causes my compass to have Deviation.

Forgive the post - but just thought I'd explain.

Nigel
2018-8-23
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Nigel_
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solentlife Posted at 2018-8-23 04:36
Come again ?

17yrs as a senior Ships Deck Officer ... Qualified in Ships Design ....

Proof that a Phantom can land on a steel deck: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-40910087 , and there is no shortage of steel there!

2018-8-23
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Nigel_
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jimm00re Posted at 2018-8-22 17:58
When I know I will be taking off from any ground that may cause interference, I lift off from a large Pellican case. This was a tip from Flytpath (to give credit).  This has eliminated all issues I've come accross but I haven't flown from a ship...  Best of luck - sounds awesome.

Good advice, I think it may be necessary to power on while on your case, powering on while on the ground and then taking off from the case may not work.

The further off the ground the better.  If the drone does become uncontrollable, switch to Atti mode.


Another point to note, ships are made of metal, and your radio signal doesn't go through metal - don't fly a full circle around the ship unless you have a viewpoint from where you can see the drone at all times - fly VLOS, and don't get too close to the radar, or ask for the radar to be turned off while you fly.

2018-8-23
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solentlife
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Nigel_ Posted at 2018-8-23 07:05
Proof that a Phantom can land on a steel deck: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-40910087 , and there is no shortage of steel there!

Where did anyone say it cannot be done ?

My comment to you was about the so-called de-magnetised steel ... and why its false statement.

Nigel
2018-8-23
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Zymurgist
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Modern cruise ships have steel hulls and aluminum superstructures.  Take a small magnet with you to find a spot.  Make sure the magnet is away from the bird when you power her up.  The visual stabalization system will get confused over water.  Make sure you turn it off and have a high GPS satilite count.
2018-8-30
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Nigel_
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Zymurgist Posted at 2018-8-30 13:13
Modern cruise ships have steel hulls and aluminum superstructures.  Take a small magnet with you to find a spot.  Make sure the magnet is away from the bird when you power her up.  The visual stabalization system will get confused over water.  Make sure you turn it off and have a high GPS satilite count.

Better to use a compass, if it points a different direction by more than a couple of degrees when on the deck at the launch spot than in other places then find a different launch spot.  You can also use a smartphone compass app if your phone has a compass.
2018-8-30
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Aardvark
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Nigel_ Posted at 2018-8-30 14:21
Better to use a compass, if it points a different direction by more than a couple of degrees when on the deck at the launch spot than in other places then find a different launch spot.  You can also use a smartphone compass app if your phone has a compass.

So how would you know which reading were true ?

2018-8-30
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Nigel_
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Aardvark Posted at 2018-8-30 15:24
So how would you know which reading were true ?


If it is a local variation due to a magnetized big steel bolt then it will be obvious since the direction will change significantly over a distance of 10cm, especially if you use a smartphone to measure the vertical magnetic field rather than the horizontal.  If it is due to a large electric motor under the floor then it may vary over several meters, if it is consistent over the entire length of the ship then you are OK.  So checking for steel bolts in the floor where you are taking off from should be easy.  I would still find a plastic bucket or something similar to keep the drone away from the floor during power on and take-off though.

If things start to go wrong when it moves away from the ship then switch to ATTI mode and return.
2018-8-31
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Aardvark
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Nigel_ Posted at 2018-8-31 02:35
If it is a local variation due to a magnetized big steel bolt then it will be obvious since the direction will change significantly over a distance of 10cm, especially if you use a smartphone to measure the vertical magnetic field rather than the horizontal.  If it is due to a large electric motor under the floor then it may vary over several meters, if it is consistent over the entire length of the ship then you are OK.  So checking for steel bolts in the floor where you are taking off from should be easy.  I would still find a plastic bucket or something similar to keep the drone away from the floor during power on and take-off though.

If things start to go wrong when it moves away from the ship then switch to ATTI mode and return.

What about the affect of thousands of tons of steel all around is that just ignored ?

Iron does not have to be magnetised to affect the lines of magnetic flux.
2018-8-31
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Nigel_
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Aardvark Posted at 2018-8-31 02:41
What about the affect of thousands of tons of steel all around is that just ignored ?

Iron does not have to be magnetised to affect the lines of magnetic flux.


If the ship has a strong overall magnetic field then it will point inwards near the ships north magnetic pole and outwards at the south, so can be detected with a compass.

However on modern ships that is likely to be quite a small magnetic field compared to the earths magnetic field, and since the superstructure is likely to be aluminium  you will only detect the hulls magnetic field on the lower decks.  A small deviation doesn't matter, even a big deviation in horizontal field is not a big problem, it will just result in the Phantom dropping into Atti mode.  The danger is from a big variation in vertical field which may cause the Phantom to tilt and then go flying off at high speed in atti mode due to the tilt.  You only tend to get this near small things that are strongly magnetised, eg bolts and possibly welds between sections of ship - don't take off or land near these.

Modern ships tend to be built in sections, and each section has it's own magnetic field, when they are all joined together there is a good chance the various magnetic fields will cancel each other out so the overall magnetic field of the ship is normally small.   

Looking for threads on this, there don't seem to be many posted, but those that do post seem to have most problems due to flying behind the ship and loosing radio reception - the radio link does not go through metal ships.  There are also a number of threads that blame the radar for problems, I've not seen much evidence that it is the radar that caused their problem, microwave communications and cell phone towers never seem to cause problems so I doubt that radar does, but it is probably a good idea to keep both the drone and yourself well clear of the radar, they normally have warning signs on them warning humans to stay clear.  I don't see many threads where people have magnetic issues flying from ships, although it is clearly possible.
2018-8-31
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hardrone
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India
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11shots Posted at 2018-8-22 07:20
Thankfully the flight will be the last day of my trip so you know... worst case. & I will certainly post my shots once back!

We are still waiting for the photos.
2019-8-13
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Labroides
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hardrone Posted at 8-13 20:55
We are still waiting for the photos.

Keep waiting .... the OP hasn't been back since he posted that a year ago.
2019-8-13
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Manxmann
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Labroides Posted at 2018-8-23 05:05
I'm with Solentlife on this one.
You can't just fit a regular compass to a steel vessel because of the magnetic field of all that steel.
You need a compass with special compensation features.

Hence the call for degausing in some situations.

2019-8-14
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cheddar-man
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If the ship has been sailing around for some time it will become a huge magnet. This was a problem for us in submarines as this could be picked up by surface vessels using specialist equipment. hence the submarine had to be degaused periodically to get rid of it.

Like others, still waiting for the OP to come back and tell us what happened!
2019-8-14
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