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d-cinelike Issues
3866 16 2018-8-28
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LordoftheFlies
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I have noticed when using the d-cinelike color profile the NOISE in the image increases considerably in the "low & mid-range" areas within my images. There also seems to be a problem with the d-cinelike profile rendering color.

Known issue with d-cinelike profile:
  • noise in the midtone and shadows.
  • poor color saturation.


The work around is not using the d-cinelike profile. I have found the native profile gives a better noise performance. Also, with the h.264 codec recording at 4:2:0 (at the correct exposure) you'll need to add a little more saturation in the settings. Forget what the youtube scholars recommend, I think they got this one wrong.

d-cinelike issues

d-cinelike issues
2018-8-28
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saviour
First Officer
Flight distance : 604203 ft
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Could you post a bigger resolution of the image? I can't zoom in.
2018-8-28
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AlphaFlightNW
First Officer
Flight distance : 784265 ft
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United States
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Odd, I believe I see what your seeing but cant say for sure whats causing it. Never had it happen to myself, sorry I cant be much help in this situation.
2018-8-29
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Charissa
Captain
Flight distance : 689334 ft
South Africa
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I take it you are talking about the Mavic Air, and in video mode? I can not take photos in the d-cinelike profile on my Air.
2018-8-29
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Jackdaw99
lvl.3
Flight distance : 991325 ft
United States
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D-cinelike is supposed to work that.  The idea is that the Air itself doesn't do the post-processing (noise reduction, color tone and saturation, sharpening, and so on): you do it later, in a program like Adobe Premiere.  Your computer will have much greater processing power, and a good program will provide a far wider range of options.  Think of it like shooting RAW files.  They look worse right out of the camera, but are far more flexible when you get to work on them.
2018-8-29
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LordoftheFlies
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Jackdaw99 Posted at 2018-8-29 05:25
D-cinelike is supposed to work that.  The idea is that the Air itself doesn't do the post-processing (noise reduction, color tone and saturation, sharpening, and so on): you do it later, in a program like Adobe Premiere.  Your computer will have much greater processing power, and a good program will provide a far wider range of options.  Think of it like shooting RAW files.  They look worse right out of the camera, but are far more flexible when you get to work on them.

Makes sense, but there's no information there in the chroma values. When I grade it, the trees go GREY on me, If I paint them in Resolve 15, I get the 8-Bit Blocks and banding.

When I reduce the noise in neat video, the footage looses it's sharpness and turns into baby food. It all looks like mush.
2018-8-29
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Ulysses Paiva
Second Officer
Flight distance : 573310 ft
Brazil
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LordoftheFlies Posted at 2018-8-29 07:47
Makes sense, but there's no information there in the chroma values. When I grade it, the trees go GREY on me, If I paint them in Resolve 15, I get the 8-Bit Blocks and banding.

When I reduce the noise in neat video, the footage looses it's sharpness and turns into baby food. It all looks like mush.[view_image][view_image][view_image][view_image][view_image]

So you're saying you get better results with the other color profile?
2018-8-29
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Jackdaw99
lvl.3
Flight distance : 991325 ft
United States
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There are some free Mavic Air LUTS around.  And this one, I've found, is quite good.  Not free, but money back.

https://goo.gl/aiz3td

2018-8-29
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LordoftheFlies
lvl.4
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Ulysses Paiva Posted at 2018-8-29 10:05
So you're saying you get better results with the other color profile?

Exactly. You can test this for yourself. This "d-cinelike" setting isn't a LOG PROFILE. I think it is simply bringing up the shadows by reducing the contrast in both the colors and luma values. Ironically, it gives you noise since it raises the noise floor buried in the shadows. It also stresses the 8-bit codec by handicapping its ability to render color for about a stop 1 1/2 of dynamic range.

Shooting normal is the way to go.
2018-8-29
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LordoftheFlies
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Jackdaw99 Posted at 2018-8-29 12:00
There are some free Mavic Air LUTS around.  And this one, I've found, is quite good.  Not free, but money back.

https://goo.gl/aiz3td

In the example footage on this webpage. The d-cinelike is making the train & trees render flat. Because there is not color information in those elements of the image. So a LUT wouldn't be helpful shooting in this "d-cinelike" setting.
2018-8-29
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Wachtberger
Captain
Flight distance : 261509 ft
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I have had exactly the same experience and therefore simply don't use it anymore since quite a while already, having significantly better results.
2018-8-29
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Ulysses Paiva
Second Officer
Flight distance : 573310 ft
Brazil
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LordoftheFlies Posted at 2018-8-29 13:36
Exactly. You can test this for yourself. This "d-cinelike" setting isn't a LOG PROFILE. I think it is simply bringing up the shadows by reducing the contrast in both the colors and luma values. Ironically, it gives you noise since it raises the noise floor buried in the shadows. It also stresses the 8-bit codec by handicapping its ability to render color for about a stop 1 1/2 of dynamic range.

Shooting normal is the way to go.

I'm gonna do some tests> As  man of Resolve too, we like to have a good flexbility in post and I do understand what you're saying.
2018-8-29
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devilsBastard
Second Officer
Flight distance : 254370 ft
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Have you tried to change the color settings for Cinelike-D? The app offers 4 settings, Standard, Landscape, *don't know yet , another*, and Custom. I have changed the custom settings to 0-3-2 to get better results in post. Maybe there is a way for tweaking.
Although I have noticed that the result are depending on good light conditions. I think, that can be a limitation by the sensor.
2018-8-30
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LookAt_Wictim
Second Officer
Flight distance : 2621982 ft
Slovakia
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best settings for me D-Cinelike and +1 0 0
2018-9-1
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LordoftheFlies
lvl.4
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LookAt_Wictim Posted at 2018-9-1 02:20
best settings for me D-Cinelike and +1 0 0

Just remember you're stressing a weak codec at 8-bit and 4:2:0. Using a flat profile is just making you feel like you have a Log workflow, but this d-cinelike is REC.709 wearing a gamma-log costume. He's been found out.
2018-9-1
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Ulysses Paiva
Second Officer
Flight distance : 573310 ft
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I did some tests today. Let me share my findings looking also at the vectorscope, histogram and waveform inside Resolve:
To me, Cinelike does indeed hold a better latitude. As it is somehow subjective, I would guess 1 stop to 1 1/2 stop more latitude for Cinelike.
Toning saturation down on color profiles affects the hue/colors while not being very effective in reducing/applying saturation.
I noticed the same amount of noise with D- Cinelike and with "None" selected. "None" holds color closer to true while Cinelike pushes everything more towards cyan (easily corrected in post, but...)
It doesnt looked to me Cinelike had some kind of digital contrast curve lifting blacks and anything of that sort, it really looked less contrasty and holding more info. It also looked like it had dealt much better in the shadow area than in the highlights although holding a shy amount more info on both ends than None profile.
Also, saturation at 0 holds truer colors as anything you do to the saturation slider shifts colors too.

But thats far from conclusive. I'm gonna keep testing and will share what else I find out.
2018-9-1
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LordoftheFlies
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Thanks for the test. You mention what kind of scene you shot or the exposure strategy.

I did a test with a scene that had High DNR (sunset sky w/ cityscape), and exposed for the shadows at -1.
2018-9-1
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