I've got the following NODA alert email today. this is really disturbing news. As it is, the road beside my house produces more constant noise, than my Mavic at 20 meter's distance. And I live in the countryside. Just imagine the noise levels in a bigh city!

Though Norway is outside of EU, this porposition makes me worried, as Norway has a history of following most of EU's legal initiatives...

Petition here:
https://engage.newmode.net/nm-letter/5971/6053

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Dear Fellow Drone Enthusiasts,
  
We need your help!
  
Soon Europe will have one common set of rules for drones in all Member  States. After defining the key principles of the new EU regulation,  European institutions are now working on the technical details to ensure  safe and secure operations throughout Europe.
  
This is a key moment for the drone industry and for all the operators  and companies benefiting from the tremendous added value drones are  bringing.
  
Today, the drone community is endangered by a proposed noise  limitation for the future C1 and C2 classes of drones, which means all  drones below 4kg used for operations over or close to people.
  
Although the reduction of the noise emitted by drones is a legitimate  objective, the values and the methodology proposed in the EU regulation  appears out of touch with reality, while the impact for the industry has  not been properly assessed.
  
Why does it matter to you?
  
Almost all drones on the market that belong to C1 and C2 classes do not  meet the proposed limits. If this goes through, your drones will most  likely not be able to comply with the regulations and soon will not be  allowed to fly as you are used to. Just imagine the impact this can have  on leisure use as well as conducting your business!
  
Sign the petition to avoid unrealistic regulations
  
Join the campaign and find more information here.  Express your concerns and let policy makers know that responsible drone  users are raising their voice in favour of realistic rules, based on  scientific research.
  
Let’s strike a fair balance between the interests of all involved parties and ensure a fair use of drones in Europe.
  
In Flight,

NODE - The Network of Drone Enthusiasts


Petition here:
https://engage.newmode.net/nm-letter/5971/6053

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Overview of the arguments:

Argument #1  The numbers that are proposed by European institutions are arbitrary  and completely out of touch with reality. If reducing the noise emitted  by drones is necessary, the limitation should be based on scientific  evidence and not on subjective assumptions.

Argument #2   The timeline for the implementation is unrealistic and will not allow  manufacturers to adapt their drones so that drone operators can take  full advantage of the new rules for operations over and close to  uninvolved people. A transition period of at least 4 years must be  implemented so that manufacturers can develop compliant drones.


Argument #3   The proposed ISO standard is non-representative for the assessment of exposure to drone noise. It was designed for stationary machines and  takes into account representative operating conditions. However, it  does not take into account the operational conditions in which pilots  use their drones. Indeed, a drone will never be fixed to the ground and  is used in outdoor conditions, where other elements such as  environmental noise are always present.

Argument #4   According to the proposed ISO standard, the noise testing protocol measures the noise from a close distance  to the source (drones): microphones are at 1m distance in the latest  public draft of Delegated Act. When taking into account the state of  technology in the market today, a noise limit of 80-90 Db(A) set at such  close distance should not define the essential environmental  requirement on noise emission of drones.

---

What the... Is this for real???

I think there is a war going on against recreational / enthusiast pilots of drones to force them out of the sky in order to reserve that right to up-and-coming drone businesses / corporations so they have exclusive rights to the sky!

I've heard ramblings about this in the US and abroad, and even here in Canada, some aspects of our drone laws, when paired to how our aerodromes have been setup, are very draconian, and making it almost impossible to fly legally in most areas. Even with a pilots license it's tough!

Alas, it seems for real

PS: I actually noticed now that another thread was started about this:
https://forum.dji.com/thread-165499-1-1.html

Still, better to make more noise about it (pun intended)

That’s just rediculous I think.
But nothing will stop me from flying
I don’t care about all those laws, I just go to a place where’s there’s nobody that cares or there’s nobody at all.
A shame but a needed measure if the things go bad for us drone users ;(

Fly safe
Alex

BumblerBee Posted at 2018-9-6 12:08
Alas, it seems for real

PS: I actually noticed now that another thread was started about this:

Having attended seminars and many meetings with regards to new proposed rules for Europe , it was always made clear that rules would apply from certain dates and older drones would not have to fully comply with all of the new rules set down for the way forward by EASA, I don’t believe older drones will be outlawed or banned because they were manufactured before rules were adopted.
Drones have a limited lifetime, yes some might fly forever but technology will pass them by, and will be replaced by new drones that will force the manufacturers to insure they meet noise regulations, and certainly on this forum it is a topic that almost everyone agrees on quieter drones, so as they say be careful what you wish for, it may just arrive on your doorstep.

Having been part of an Irish delegation taking part in forming these new rules for Europe through EASA , I can tell you EASA are very keen to promote both Hobbyists and business flying of drones throughout Europe.

Not everything is nailed down yet, but provisions for older drones were discussed and provision will be made for them, and the sky won’t fall in nor will the hobby diminish in any way, EASA has put these rules together because it believes there will be huge growth in flying drones for both hobbyists and professionals, they have no interest in trying to hold this back in any way.
They are so far ahead of the FAA so much more progressive towards drone flying that we as hobbyists and professionals should welcome their efforts to bring about harmonization of drone flying throughout Europe, the freedom to travel as hobbyists to other countries not to have to worry if you can fly where you can fly, is just one of the many improvements for all drone flyers throughout Europe.
By all means sign up to the protest, it keeps arbitrators on their toes, I have signed up myself, but I believe we as hobbyists or professionals have nothing to worry about.

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-9-6 14:08
Having attended seminars and many meetings with regards to new proposed rules for Europe , it was always made clear that rules would apply from certain dates and older drones would not have to fully comply with all of the new rules set down for the way forward by EASA, I don’t believe older drones will be outlawed or banned because they were manufactured before rules were adopted.
Drones have a limited lifetime, yes some might fly forever but technology will pass them by, and will be replaced by new drones that will force the manufacturers to insure they meet noise regulations, and certainly on this forum it is a topic that almost everyone agrees on quieter drones, so as they say be careful what you wish for, it may just arrive on your doorstep.

I fully agree and for example in my country the new standards will bring improvements and a bit more liberty actually. Those having launched this petition unfortunately seem to not have read carefully the suggested provisions. And as it is with e.g. new emission standards for cars that are established every couple of years, these don't apply to products already in operation. They are always directed to newly produced or imported products once the new regulation has become effective.

And NODE is directly sponsored by DJI.

Noise is an issue whether we like it or not.
Ask any non drone user what they hate most about drones and they'll say the noise.
Obviously this is made worse by plenty of irresponsible drone users flying close to, over and hovering near people and crowds which to be fair just p****s them off.

So there will be noise restrictions for certain.

Wachtberger Posted at 2018-9-6 14:25
I fully agree and for example in my county the new standards will bring improvements and a bit more liberty actually. Those having launched this petition unfortunately seem to not have read carefully the suggested provisions. And as it is with e.g. new emission standards for cars that are established every couple of years, these don't apply to products already in operation. They are always directed to newly produced or imported products once the new regulation has become effective.

Sorry, but I cannot follow your example and conclusion.
Older cars which cannot fullfil the emission standards are NOT allowed to drive in classified areas (red or yellow labeled cars are banned from environment  zones). There are only execptions for oldtimers. They discussing about banning diesel cars below EURO 6 norm. Some cities have banned those cars.
So your conclusion is false - when a noise limit will come, all louder drones have to stay on ground. When the law sets the limits, there will be no way out - only my opinion - we don't have a waranty to use one or two year old drones at this point.
We all can imaging how this will happen: Someone will call the police, shouting: "This drone is way to noisy!", and the first action will be that we loose our birds." Unfortunately we as drone pilots get only a bad image by the press.

One step to a better image is defintely noise reduction. So DJI will improve their, our, allover, image producing quieter props for ALL drones. It is possible, as seen at the MP an P4P 2. I am sure, it is complicated, but worth all power. Noise is an issue to be solved.

The EU is a sham. None of the actual EU leadership is elected. UK was smart to bail.

i signed against it even though im not from the EU   while yes i definitely want quieter drones, the mavic air being a good example of a drone that could use some shutting up, the issue i have is sometimes too much regulation.

if they want drone makers and point of sales to sell better quieter drones, best thing they could do is not come after the consumers and pilots but rather tax the companies a "noise pollution tax" if they exceed certain values... and to prevent dji or other companies getting aorund it by not including props or something like that, they could just put that into clause if no props included with original sale, assumed value exceeds all limits.

make the values and distances reasonable, scientific and logical and real world as well as frequencies, like inspire 2 probably would exceed decibel limit but it doesn't create shrill high pitched sounds that are annoying and ear ringing and i consider it far less annoying 50M up than most drones, mavic air on other hand probably right under the limit, but its super annoying sounding even 50M up..  so measurements need to be taken from set of distances outdoors, real world type conditions where people fly.  50m up i think is reasonable measurement point that's around 120-130ish feet up i think, and most people flying around that height..  measure both decibels and the frequencies.  come up with some formula so not biased towards just louder drones but towards more painfully annoying ones both frequency and decibel range.

devilsBastard Posted at 2018-9-7 04:34
Sorry, but I cannot follow your example and conclusion.
Older cars which cannot fullfil the emission standards are NOT allowed to drive in classified areas (red or yellow labeled cars are banned from environment  zones). There are only execptions for oldtimers. They discussing about banning diesel cars below EURO 6 norm. Some cities have banned those cars.
So your conclusion is false - when a noise limit will come, all louder drones have to stay on ground. When the law sets the limits, there will be no way out - only my opinion - we don't have a waranty to use one or two year old drones at this point.

Much ado about nothing in my opinion. Here you can read what is actually on the table there: https://www.easa.europa.eu/docum ... ions/opinion-012018
I can only recommend to read it carefully. And your example about cars is simply wrong too. The limitations for high emissions in cities is not EU law, not even national law, it's local regulations issued by the cities concerned.

dbparti024 Posted at 2018-9-7 10:41
The EU is a sham. None of the actual EU leadership is elected. UK was smart to bail.

You might better choose to stay with your apparent friend D. Dumb before raising your voice on issues that you have no clue about. Get educated please before making such judgements.

Hi, thank you for reaching DJI Forum. We do appreciate bringing this to us and to your co-pilots to be aware especially in Europe area. Thank you.

dbparti024 Posted at 2018-9-7 10:41
The EU is a sham. None of the actual EU leadership is elected. UK was smart to bail.

Not strictly true:-

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36429482

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-9-6 14:08
Having attended seminars and many meetings with regards to new proposed rules for Europe , it was always made clear that rules would apply from certain dates and older drones would not have to fully comply with all of the new rules set down for the way forward by EASA, I don’t believe older drones will be outlawed or banned because they were manufactured before rules were adopted.
Drones have a limited lifetime, yes some might fly forever but technology will pass them by, and will be replaced by new drones that will force the manufacturers to insure they meet noise regulations, and certainly on this forum it is a topic that almost everyone agrees on quieter drones, so as they say be careful what you wish for, it may just arrive on your doorstep.

Thank you for a balanced opinion from a drone enthusiast, who is involved in the process. Much appreciated!

devilsBastard Posted at 2018-9-7 04:34
Sorry, but I cannot follow your example and conclusion.
Older cars which cannot fullfil the emission standards are NOT allowed to drive in classified areas (red or yellow labeled cars are banned from environment  zones). There are only execptions for oldtimers. They discussing about banning diesel cars below EURO 6 norm. Some cities have banned those cars.
So your conclusion is false - when a noise limit will come, all louder drones have to stay on ground. When the law sets the limits, there will be no way out - only my opinion - we don't have a waranty to use one or two year old drones at this point.

As far as I know levels are 90db, your Mavic Air is approx 76db, Mavic Pro quilter and M2 quilter again P4Pro also quilter , what restrictions are going to stop you from flying ?

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-9-9 06:17
As far as I know levels are 90db, your Mavic Air is approx 76db, Mavic Pro quilter and M2 quilter again P4Pro also quilter , what restrictions are going to stop you from flying ?

None yet. But I think it would be an advantage to reduce noise. Got some complaints about the sound by spectators. Don't you agree that decreasing noise would increase acceptance?
I agree that rules are necessary, fact. No problem with this. But I would like to see, better hear less. ;)

Topic already been covered.

devilsBastard Posted at 2018-9-9 11:52
None yet. But I think it would be an advantage to reduce noise. Got some complaints about the sound by spectators. Don't you agree that decreasing noise would increase acceptance?
I agree that rules are necessary, fact. No problem with this. But I would like to see, better hear less. ;)

So you don’t think DJI are perhaps looking at reducing noise already? They don’t need the stinking EU sticking there nose in to it! Haven’t they got better things to do with there time like the shape of fruit?!

devilsBastard Posted at 2018-9-9 11:52
None yet. But I think it would be an advantage to reduce noise. Got some complaints about the sound by spectators. Don't you agree that decreasing noise would increase acceptance?
I agree that rules are necessary, fact. No problem with this. But I would like to see, better hear less. ;)

I actually think if EASA can get the manufactures to research and develop lower noise drones, it would be great for everyone, having had a great interest in how EASA has approached these rules, their enthusiasm for professionals enthusiasts and hobbyists alike, we will not see anything that will curb drone flying in any way, but quite the opposite, I believe it’s in everyone’s interest to have a set of rules that will not curb or hinder drone flying, a set of rules that will insure the safety and privacy of the general public, and yes it will always be difficult to completely balance everything , and there will be some complaining from general public and some drone flyers complaining. But from what I’ve seen and heard they will be quite progressive for drone flyers in every category.

If these rules are not passed we will see governments get involved more and more, and they will always be pressured by the biggest lobbyist groups, which will not the drone flying group. Governments and politicians are only interested where their votes are going to come from, I also believe that governments will be quite happy to allow other bodies with experience in the whole safety of flying to manage what they can’t manage.
With regards to each European bodies in charge of their airspace, like in Ireland IAA UK CAA etc, all there safety issues are already in the control of EASA so I believe they are also in favour of EASA taking control of the safety of flying drones, simply because they are all members of EASA.

I know their are some brits on this thread complaining about Europe taking over here, but that’s just ignorance on their part, this is EASA the organization for the safety of all aviation throughout Europe , trying to put together a set of rules that we can freely fly throughout Europe.
EASA are in the business of flying not the business of curbing flying and this will apply to drones as well.

I think EASA have left the FAA in their wake , with these set of rules and clarity for all who fly drones in Europe.

Fly Safe.

Not having been to Norway ...

Are there restrictions on booming (deep thumping) sound systems in vehicles?
What about restrictions on overtly noisy vehicles (tomato can mufflers, muffler bypasses, rumbling/popping motorcycle exhausts)?


If there are such restrictions - are proposed drone noise restrictions more restrictive than those for vehicles.  If yes, time to ask Why.


If there are no such restrictions- time to start asking those proposing drone noise restrictions why vehicles are exempt.

ShadyDealer Posted at 2018-9-9 12:18
So you don’t think DJI are perhaps looking at reducing noise already? They don’t need the stinking EU sticking there nose in to it! Haven’t they got better things to do with there time like the shape of fruit?!

I don’t no if you could be more ignorant. This is not Europe imposing rules on Britain , all Europeans are delighted that Britain will be gone and the sooner the better.
This is EASA the body that your CAA are members of the body that looks after the safety of aviation in your country, as they did before you joined the EU, even when your gone out of Europe they will continue to look after the safety of aviation in your country, so whatever rules that are passed will be fully controlled by them.
So don’t be trying to be an ignoramus you will find all Europeans will be glad to see tha back of you ;+)....

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-9-9 12:23
I actually think if EASA can get the manufactures to research and develop lower noise drones, it would be great for everyone, having had a great interest in how EASA has approached these rules, their enthusiasm for professionals enthusiasts and hobbyists alike, we will not see anything that will curb drone flying in any way, but quite the opposite, I believe it’s in everyone’s interest to have a set of rules that will not curb or hinder drone flying, a set of rules that will insure the safety and privacy of the general public, and yes it will always be difficult to completely balance everything , and there will be some complaining from general public and some drone flyers complaining. But from what I’ve seen and heard they will be quite progressive for drone flyers in every category.

If these rules are not passed we will see governments get involved more and more, and they will always be pressured by the biggest lobbyist groups, which will not the drone flying group. Governments and politicians are only interested where their votes are going to come from, I also believe that governments will be quite happy to allow other bodies with experience in the whole safety of flying to manage what they can’t manage.

I agree the EASA rules should be seen not only as rules but also as a chance and as guidelines for developers and pilots. Maybe they can help to increase acceptance by "non-droners". But this is a matter of communication and marketing.
Safe flights and happy landings.

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-9-9 12:23
I actually think if EASA can get the manufactures to research and develop lower noise drones, it would be great for everyone, having had a great interest in how EASA has approached these rules, their enthusiasm for professionals enthusiasts and hobbyists alike, we will not see anything that will curb drone flying in any way, but quite the opposite, I believe it’s in everyone’s interest to have a set of rules that will not curb or hinder drone flying, a set of rules that will insure the safety and privacy of the general public, and yes it will always be difficult to completely balance everything , and there will be some complaining from general public and some drone flyers complaining. But from what I’ve seen and heard they will be quite progressive for drone flyers in every category.

If these rules are not passed we will see governments get involved more and more, and they will always be pressured by the biggest lobbyist groups, which will not the drone flying group. Governments and politicians are only interested where their votes are going to come from, I also believe that governments will be quite happy to allow other bodies with experience in the whole safety of flying to manage what they can’t manage.

Thank you very much for sharing once again your first hand experience! All I can say is if the proposed  EASA standards will be adopted as proposed, drone flying in my country will become more flexible in important regards And since last week I am sittting in the same boat.

I for one would like quiter drones.  Nothing like being able to sneak up...


However, I am not in favor of more policies, regulations, or laws to enforce quiter drones.  For several reasons:
1) They can't even enforce the policies, regulations, or laws we have now.   For example: Most countries, it is illegal to steal, but it does not deter or stop thieves.
2) Authorities tend to abuse those policies, regulations, or laws to increase their power and control.  Often using Legal Warfare with convoluted written wording (aka open to debate) to go after generally Law abiding people.  Prime example IRS vs. Taxpayers.
3) Authorities generally exempt themselves from those policies, regulations, or laws.  Especially under guise of ''For the better good'' or ''National Security''.  Seeing that right now in U.S. with abuse of FISC.

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-9-9 12:40
I don’t no if you could be more ignorant. This is not Europe imposing rules on Britain , all Europeans are delighted that Britain will be gone and the sooner the better.
This is EASA the body that your CAA are members of the body that looks after the safety of aviation in your country, as they did before you joined the EU, even when your gone out of Europe they will continue to look after the safety of aviation in your country, so whatever rules that are passed will be fully controlled by them.
So don’t be trying to be an ignoramus you will find all Europeans will be glad to see tha back of you ;+)....

You certainly don’t ‘no’ or even know for that matter. That is correct. The EU is spearheading this initiative you arrogant fool. Be glad to see the back of the EU! Be glad the U.K. can take back some control of its own destiny. Roll on March 2019! See if they will be glad to fill the void of cash!  

ShadyDealer Posted at 2018-9-9 13:46
You certainly don’t ‘no’ or even know for that matter. That is correct. The EU is spearheading this initiative you arrogant fool. Be glad to see the back of the EU! Be glad the U.K. can take back some control of its own destiny. Roll on March 2019! See if they will be glad to fill the void of cash!

Again you ignorance knows no bounds, yes the rules have to be past by the EU parliament, once passed they will hand over control to EASA, just as your government handed over control of their airspace to CAA and the same with most of the world’s aviation . You are ignorant , you are well aware that these rules are less stringent than your own rules, but you can still fly under CAA rules while the rest of Britain will enjoy what are much more open rules to fly their drones under the rules of EASA, it’s called cutting off your nose to spite your face.
You must also be aware that those who will be set the task of getting these rules are indeed EU MP’s the people of your country voted for.

I've just signed the node... I have discovered this amazing hobby now and I hope I can fly for long time.

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-9-9 14:13
Again you ignorance knows no bounds, yes the rules have to be past by the EU parliament, once passed they will hand over control to EASA, just as your government handed over control of their airspace to CAA and the same with most of the world’s aviation . You are ignorant , you are well aware that these rules are less stringent than your own rules, but you can still fly under CAA rules while the rest of Britain will enjoy what are much more open rules to fly their drones under the rules of EASA, it’s called cutting off your nose to spite your face.
You must also be aware that those who will be set the task of getting these rules are indeed EU MP’s the people of your country voted for.

Only one demonstrating ignorance is you. Deluded. You worry about Ireland is or isn’t doing?! Usually the latter...

ShadyDealer Posted at 2018-9-10 10:12
Only one demonstrateing ignorance is you. Deluded. You worry about Ireland is or isn’t doing?! Usually the latter...

In Ireland we speak English, so when writing a reply , try and make it so as one can understand it.

ShadyDealer Posted at 2018-9-9 13:46
You certainly don’t ‘no’ or even know for that matter. That is correct. The EU is spearheading this initiative you arrogant fool. Be glad to see the back of the EU! Be glad the U.K. can take back some control of its own destiny. Roll on March 2019! See if they will be glad to fill the void of cash!

It is more than obvious that you and a few others here do not have any clue about what the true substance is, but raise your voices high. Read this document carefully and try to understand it, thereafter we can have an informed discussion here: https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites ... %20No%2001-2018.pdf

Wachtberger Posted at 2018-9-10 10:59
It is more than obvious that you and a few others here do not have any clue about what the true substance is, but raise your voices high. Read this document carefully and try to understand it, thereafter we can have an informed discussion here: https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites ... %20No%2001-2018.pdf

I know exactly what I’m championing and why!

ShadyDealer Posted at 2018-9-10 11:01
I know exactly what I’m championing and why!

Wow, that was a very quick reading. But if you prefer to live and shout in ignorance that is your freedom of choice of course.

Wachtberger Posted at 2018-9-10 11:03
Wow, that was a very quick reading. But if you prefer to live and shout in ignorance that is your freedom of choice of course.

Who’s shouting?  As for freedom, that will come soon enough and that was my choice, Correct.

As an retired hearing specialist I welcome any reduction in noise, having treated thousands of people whose hearing has been damaged by loud noise. However, to imagine that the noise of a quad at 50m distance, which is the distance we are required to be away from non involved people, would require some very large motors indeed. Even closer in within the 30m circle, the motors I have on my three would nowhere near get to damaging levels or the 90dB(?) being spread about.  I have done measurements with my aircraft and following the current regulations in terms of keeping craft and public apart I was often finding it hard to isolate the noise of the craft from the background cacophony that many of us face.  So let us welcome sensible, and probably  inevitable, changes and not panic about our expensive craft becoming garden ornaments.

Drone noise ??? Really ?  Jets and prop planes are much louder than drones. When a prop plane flies over me in my backyard I cannot even hear my drone.

Utterly absurd set of nonsensical rules - roll on March and let um' get on with it.

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-9-9 12:40
I don’t no if you could be more ignorant. This is not Europe imposing rules on Britain , all Europeans are delighted that Britain will be gone and the sooner the better.
This is EASA the body that your CAA are members of the body that looks after the safety of aviation in your country, as they did before you joined the EU, even when your gone out of Europe they will continue to look after the safety of aviation in your country, so whatever rules that are passed will be fully controlled by them.
So don’t be trying to be an ignoramus you will find all Europeans will be glad to see tha back of you ;+)....

"all Europeans are delighted that Britain will be gone and the sooner the better".
What absolute rubbish and what an offensive, racist remark to make.

A CW Posted at 2018-9-23 11:00
"all Europeans are delighted that Britain will be gone and the sooner the better".
What absolute rubbish and what an offensive, racist remark to make.

How is it racist ?