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Still cant fly indoors (NO fly Zone)
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HarleyGuy55
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So i work in a no fly zone!!!! Across the street and down some 4 or 5 hundred yards if not even farther... And work inside a warehouse thats well over 200,000 feet large. And would like to take some pics of some structures inside the building and some airial pics of some equipment in use. It's a personnel mission and no money to be made what so ever. So here we sit .. I've got my Cert, and all FAA required paperwork BUT DJI still will not release my bird to fly INDOORS... NOT OUTDOORS but indoors... FAA said and i quote ..WE have no authority over or what you do INSIDE your property (WAREHOUSE) therfore we will not and can not give you any paperwork and or Autheration to fly said unanned aircraft in any dwelling that is not FAA owned or operated. End of quote... SO how in GODS name am i supposed to give DJI the proper auth, form or numbers so they will release my bird for the allotted times and days i've asked for???? I've done the safe fly thing only to be given or so it said release but when i power up my bird it says...NO FLY it will not even spin the blades.... So like so many ive read about and some with WAY more exsperiance then I get this autheration thing working.??? I do understand the concern but I'm left with the thought of why in gods sake a company MILES AND MILES AND MILES>>>> away control what i do in my own house sorta speak ??? I'm left with this.. If i cant get this figured out soon.. I will get rid of said dji drone and buy another style that does not invade my privacy of flying inside my own place of business or residents.... Dont get me wrong for the money and quality of DJI drones ya just cant get much better and although i've had some real issues with dji they have infact come thru with flying colors. I absalutly love there drones but again if i'm autherized to fly and have proper ID and cridentials i dont feel i need to be grounded from a company that has no idea where or what im doing.. well thats not even the right statment . we have laws here to respect and go by .... we are not aloud to drive any car on the roads at 100mph thats just the law and most likely loose your car if caught but my point is if we are given permission to drive that fast then the car company has no right to tell us no just because they made the car... well that didnt turn out like i wanted but im sure you get the point. and i know this rant will not change anything but ...one more time there is another customer that is complaining about your crazy control.. Thank you please pull foward...lol !
2018-9-13
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Mark The Droner
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Are you sure you can't fly in there?  Have you tried?  It's possible the roof of the place will block the GPS signals (e.g. I don't get satellites on my kitchen table).

If not, stick some layers of foil on top of the AC over the GPS antenna and you should be good to go.  
2018-9-13
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RedHotPoker
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Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-9-13 06:39
Stick some layers of foil on top of the AC over the GPS antenna and you should be good to go.

That “could” create more problems.

Maybe get a different drone. Haha


RedHotPoker
2018-9-13
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HarleyGuy55
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Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-9-13 06:39
Stick some layers of foil on top of the AC over the GPS antenna and you should be good to go.

LMAO ! OK !
2018-9-13
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Mark The Droner
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As RHP hints, make sure you have some experience flying low in close quarters in ATTI mode.   Be wary of signal deflection problems.  Good luck
2018-9-13
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TheLazyC
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Have the airport write a letter on their letter head granting you permission to fly the drone within the no fly zone. I got a letter from my airport to fly ad photograph the airport where my airplane is based and received the file to unlock within 13 minutes after uploading it.
2018-9-13
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Mark The Droner
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TheLazyC Posted at 2018-9-13 12:14
Have the airport write a letter on their letter head granting you permission to fly the drone within the no fly zone. I got a letter from my airport to fly ad photograph the airport where my airplane is based and received the file to unlock within 13 minutes after uploading it.

...maybe read the OP again...
2018-9-13
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DJI Tony
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Hi, Sorry if you have to experience this issue. Since you've mentioned that you manage to contact our fly-safe department, I would like to ask if you received any feedback about your request? Please let us know for further help. Thank you for the support.
2018-9-13
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Antonio76
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He asked for permission to fly inside the No-Fly zone BUT inside the building... which is not up to FAA to allow or deny... he should just ask a permission to fly in the No Fly Zone, pure and simple, without mentioning the building :-)
2018-9-14
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Mark The Droner
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Antonio76 Posted at 2018-9-14 03:10
He asked for permission to fly inside the No-Fly zone BUT inside the building... which is not up to FAA to allow or deny... he should just ask a permission to fly in the No Fly Zone, pure and simple, without mentioning the building :-)

But to unlock, he needs to provide proof to DJI that he has airport permission to fly in the NFZ and the irony is that the airport and FAA has nothing to do with it because it's not an NFZ below the roof of the building.  This is one of the problems with the NFZ system.  Yes, the problem would potentially be solved if he had the airport's approval, but why would the airport give approval for a flight that doesn't include the airport's airspace?  So the pilot is in limbo.  DJI won't let him fly in a place that's perfectly legal to fly.  There have been quite a few threads on this over the years.  Theoretically, DJI could just take the pilot's word and unlock it for him, but I haven't seen that happen yet.  
2018-9-14
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HarleyGuy55
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Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-9-14 03:33
But to unlock, he needs to provide proof to DJI that he has airport permission to fly in the NFZ and the irony is that the airport and FAA has nothing to do with it because it's not an NFZ below the roof of the building.  This is one of the problems with the NFZ system.  Yes, the problem would potentially be solved if he had the airport's approval, but why would the airport give approval for a flight that doesn't include the airport's airspace?  So the pilot is in limbo.  DJI won't let him fly in a place that's perfectly legal to fly.  There have been quite a few threads on this over the years.  Theoretically, DJI could just take the pilot's word and unlock it for him, but I haven't seen that happen yet.

Yes... That's exactly whats going on.. I have contacted the airport and tower personnel only to be told they will not issue any paperwork ...letterhead anything stating it's ok for me to fly indoors in a NFZ BECAUSE they have no right telling me i can or cant on my property. (private) i again called and emailed them asking please just to email or put in writing  what they told me and they will not....I quote .. We can not and do not have any authority over private property even if said warehouse was 20 feet away from tower as long as it's not on airport or FAA property we will not state (waste our time) giving said notice when this issue is plainly talked about or on FAA website.. Something to that effect. Thanks for the warning on no GPS signal . I will practice ATTI mode somewhere that i have open space to learn things. That's all i need is to finally get permission than take off and crash . wouldn't that be a tearful moment ..lol ! And to the DJI rep.. I have only filled out the flysafe permission app .I've not personally contacted the flysafe people... did not know i should or could for that matter only understood to fill out proper forms and wait.. And i've done this twice now with no help.. wait yes they did auth, BUT BIRD will not fire up...
2018-9-14
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HarleyGuy55
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Antonio76 Posted at 2018-9-14 03:10
He asked for permission to fly inside the No-Fly zone BUT inside the building... which is not up to FAA to allow or deny... he should just ask a permission to fly in the No Fly Zone, pure and simple, without mentioning the building :-)

There saying .. They can not give permission because i'm in a NFZ plain and simple. EVEN IF I"M INDOORS
2018-9-14
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HarleyGuy55
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I've even applied for a NFZ authorization via FAA website again . asking to fly on this property at or below tree lines or rooftops just to see if that would work and no mention of indoor flights.
2018-9-14
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HarleyGuy55
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One more thing... Whats sad and a bit dorky on my part is when i had my P4 it powered right up and would fly inside my warehouse but that day i was busy moving rail cars around and didn't have time to do what i wanted to do. Then it started having VPS issues and ended up sending it back for repairs... And when i got it back this window popped up wanting to do some updates and without thinking about it i hit OK. And when i hooked up my V2.0 a day or so later the same thing happened with updates... Come to find out the updates were in fact NFZ  updates or Geo fencing and now neither bird will do anything other than sit and flash lights at me... Anyone want to by a couple well flown but in perfect condition DJI drones.. I have a P4 with accessories and a well flown month and a half old V2.0 with a bunch of accessories???
2018-9-14
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Mark The Droner
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HarleyGuy55 Posted at 2018-9-14 04:37
One more thing... Whats sad and a bit dorky on my part is when i had my P4 it powered right up and would fly inside my warehouse but that day i was busy moving rail cars around and didn't have time to do what i wanted to do. Then it started having VPS issues and ended up sending it back for repairs... And when i got it back this window popped up wanting to do some updates and without thinking about it i hit OK. And when i hooked up my V2.0 a day or so later the same thing happened with updates... Come to find out the updates were in fact NFZ  updates or Geo fencing and now neither bird will do anything other than sit and flash lights at me... Anyone want to by a couple well flown but in perfect condition DJI drones.. I have a P4 with accessories and a well flown month and a half old V2.0 with a bunch of accessories???

Yes - this was discussed in another thread recently.  What happens is you take your drone to a new area and start it up, and if you don't have an internet connection right away, it will fly in many restricted areas - even on an airport runway.  But when it gets the internet connection, the fly safe maps get updated and uploaded to your AC and you're dog meat.  
2018-9-14
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HarleyGuy55
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Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-9-14 05:10
Yes - this was discussed in another thread recently.  What happens is you take your drone to a new area and start it up, and if you don't have an internet connection right away, it will fly in a many restricted areas - even on an airport runway.  But when it gets the internet connection, the fly safe maps get updated and uploaded to your AC and your dog meat.

Thanks and thats what happened all right. When i got the P4 back i was in my office which is the same place as the NFZ warehouse issue and turned everything on just to check it out and was able to spin the motors so i thought they released my bird... Got all excited and then went about my daily work schedule only to be VERY disappointed the following day .. I brought it back to work and prept it for a test flight in the warehouse and what happens???? NOTHING.................NOTHING BUT LIGHTS FLASHING and (cannot take off) stupid red warning at the top of my screen.... So SOOOOO very irritating so much anger... LOL i almost turned green....Anyway I even down loaded that litchi app thinking maybe i could sneak by something BUT NO GO...  anyway thanks for your replies and help. Have a awesome weekend . TTul !  
2018-9-14
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FlyingUser
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Even if the OP gets an approval from the FAA, that will be time limited and had to be renewed, the whole thing starts again.

Litchi is not an option, the NFZ-s are defined in the aircraft's firmware. DJI should provide a switch - as there was one a couple of versions back - which could be turned off by the pilot on his own responsibility.

Otherwise, DJI is in a very dark-grey area with the GEO-System as it is implemented today...
2018-9-14
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Mark The Droner
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Considering this is an indoors flight with no wind, I don't think this particular situation is something worth getting worked up about.  Simply block the GPS antenna and fly.  Problem solved.

2018-9-14
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Mark Weiss
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United States
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Just return your drone to DJI as defective and demand a refund. ;)
2018-9-14
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HarleyGuy55
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Ya huh.... I’m working today and tomorrow so I will mess with the blocking the signal idea ... think it’s a bit scary ... well not scary but risky but WTH I’ll do a not prop test first and see if it will even let me spin the motors. And although I am very upset over this NFZ on my property I sit here and wonder how many people have went out and spent $1500 + on DJI drone and accessories only to get home and find out they can’t even fly in there own yard/house/garage/Orchard/field???? I would be so upset and if I was well off money wise and had some family members lawyer wise I would infact start a case ... Just to see what would come of it. But my wife’s uncle says good luck with it. Out of state out of mind.... ya got to have money to fight money and brother DJI has got VERY deep pockets.... But even with this problem I’m still having fun. If it wasn’t for DJI and there .... I’ll be nice.... Rules I would be bored to death... If not being able to fly in my warehouse is all I have to worry about ... well I’m sitting pretty because SC is getting hit hard . We got fires here floods over there earthquakes over on another area... I’m a very blessed man... Thank you all and please buckle up and enjoy your flight there will be some turbulence coming forthright.... LMAO.....
2018-9-15
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Mark The Droner
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Oh yeah, I would also make sure there are no fans, vents, stuff like that on, because any slight air movement will be a problem.  Also, I would install prop guards for inside flying.  Good luck
2018-9-15
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HarleyGuy55
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Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-9-15 10:38
Oh yeah, I would also make sure there are no fans, vents, stuff like that on, because any slight air movement will be a problem.  Also, I would install prop guards for inside flying.  Good luck

Thanks... I do have guards bump guards anyway and there’s no over head fans but we do have 5 hp 480 volt wall fans to keep air moving so the the 10ton steel coils don’t get rust on them. I’ll turn those off ... well at least in the area of flight. I’ve not flown indoors with DJI drones before but have flown helicopters and other drones inside. Even a couple RC planes. Thanks for your help.
2018-9-15
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Mobilcams
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I work inside a large warehouse right next to an airport as well. One of my co-workers brought his P4 in and flew it for this exact reason - he didn't use aluminum foil though, he used a cut up Pepsi can.
2018-9-15
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HarleyGuy55
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Mobilcams Posted at 2018-9-15 15:27
I work inside a large warehouse right next to an airport as well. One of my co-workers brought his P4 in and flew it for this exact reason - he didn't use aluminum foil though, he used a cut up Pepsi can.

Really.... So your saying if i cover my RC antennas with something like soda can or foil it will block said GPS signal good enough to fly a few missions in order to take some pics???? That's what your telling me.. I really thought a few of you were just messing with me... Honestly.... I have some RF signal blocking tape we use sometimes to clean up interference issues for Fiber optic and Cat5 and 6 cables from machinery and other high voltage issues... So if i block the signal on my RC my bird will be blind.. No auto hover or stableness... ???? I will have to practice this somewhere that if i go down i won't trash my bird...  Is there anyone else out there that's done this???   I will try it this week in my north 40 field its freshly plowed and ground is fairly soft at this time.... Thank you for this info!
2018-9-17
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Mark The Droner
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I thought we were past this.

You don't block the RC signal.  You block the GPS signal.  

When you block the GPS signal, you lose GPS.  Everything else works.  Altimeter works.  Gyros work.  RC transmitter works.  RC receiver works.  Camera works.  Gimbal works.  FPV works.  Motors work.  Compass works.  ESCs work.  IMU works.  VPS works.  Telemetry works.  

Yes, I've flown indoors in ATTI.  Works great.  



If I can do this in a tiny metal-roof cabin with zero satellites and no VPS and no object avoidance system in an antiquated P2, you should be able to manage in a warehouse with a P4.  

Good luck.  
2018-9-17
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HarleyGuy55
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Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-9-17 04:23
I thought we were past this.

You don't block the RC signal.  You block the GPS signal.  

Well ... I'm at a total loss. Please forgive me but i guess i'm not understanding... So where or what do i block??? I was thinking i was to put something around the antennas on the RC ? Yes/No ?? Do you have a pic of the can idea. And if your thinking that i should be able to fly in Atti mode because of the steel roof . My P4 will not fire up inside my warehouse under the steel roof.. So i'm either misunderstanding or i'm not explaining things right either way i'm still just learning things...  
2018-9-17
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HarleyGuy55
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HarleyGuy55 Posted at 2018-9-17 06:27
Well ... I'm at a total loss. Please forgive me but i guess i'm not understanding... So where or what do i block??? I was thinking i was to put something around the antennas on the RC ? Yes/No ?? Do you have a pic of the can idea. And if your thinking that i should be able to fly in Atti mode because of the steel roof . My P4 will not fire up inside my warehouse under the steel roof.. So i'm either misunderstanding or i'm not explaining things right either way i'm still just learning things...

Oh and you may be past this but i've just begun.. So if you are past this then thanks for your info...
2018-9-17
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Mark The Droner
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HarleyGuy55 Posted at 2018-9-17 06:28
Oh and you may be past this but i've just begun.. So if you are past this then thanks for your info...

See post #2.  



Good luck
2018-9-17
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HarleyGuy55
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OHHHH ! I got it now.. For some reason i was thinking i had to cover the RC .. So i got it cover the area where the dji emblem is ?? Makes sense now. And yes i have tried to fly inside the warehouse it I'm thinking gets just enough signal to know its in a no fly zone especially after the last Geofencing update...  Now we can or i can move past this... Thanks for your help !
2018-9-17
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HarleyGuy55
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Thank you again that was a perfect VIDEO ! I will check it out and see what or how it works for me and ill post a reply on success or failure ... Going to do a lot of test flights first ... I sure don't want to lose or crash... BUT if this works I'll get my pics and be done with it. TTul !!!
2018-9-17
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FlyingUser
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Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-9-17 06:40
See post #2.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4kt3JnSOdc

Exactly! This video is THE perfect explanation, why manufacturer enforced geofencing is completely useless for protecting restricted airspace. If someone WANTS to go in there, takes a total 5 minutes (including emptying and washing the beer can and the walk to the toolbox...) and costs 0.001$.

What remains is only the risk for the unaware user and people nearby from the hijacked drone going full panic mode if it finds itself inside a nfz...
2018-9-17
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HarleyGuy55
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So I've filled out the paperwork AGAIN to FAA for Authorization to fly in my warehouse (INDOORS) only to be told again they have no jurisdiction over what i do/fly/shoot/drive/crash/dig/build/burn.. As long as it is not or does not hinder outside flights nor visual sight.. So here we sit with no way to fly my DJI drone indoors.. I tried the soda can taped over the center of the drone but it still did not work.. I tried the ATTI mode and airplane mode on cell phone with no results!!! So at this point i've already been so upset i could spit nails but now i'm tired of the lack of response and or care of certain companies to keep their customers somewhat happy... I realize you can't keep everyone happy ,i to work in a industry that sells to the public and understand you just can't please everyone..... BUT you should try.... And again like others have said if a person shows or has the right credentials and or license he/she should be able to fly indoors or outdoors within the laws of that state or FAA guidelines...   It should not be controlled by a outside entity that's not FAA or of the state at which were trying to fly.. Well i've overworked my mind and its steaming out of one ear so i'm probably not making anymore sense so with that I'll just say who do you think you are ???? Thank you and please enjoy your flight ..
2018-10-2
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HarleyGuy55
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Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-9-13 06:39
Are you sure you can't fly in there?  Have you tried?  It's possible the roof of the place will block the GPS signals (e.g. I don't get satellites on my kitchen table).

If not, stick some layers of foil on top of the AC over the GPS antenna and you should be good to go.

yes i have tried to fly... I surely would not post anything  in regards to NFZ if i did not already try! and i have tried the can thing but no luck .. Have not done the foil thing .. I'll try that next ...
2018-10-2
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FishinTexas2015
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Have you tried searching online for one of the previous firmware versions? A while back I had updated the firmware on my Phantom 3 and I suddenly was unable to fly in certain areas (despite having proper authorization) so I found a copy of the previous firmware, deleted/cleared my drone and uploaded the old firmware...afterwards I was able to fly with no issues. Perhaps this may work with your Phantom 4
2018-10-7
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Jeff Millard
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HarleyGuy55 Posted at 2018-10-2 05:06
yes i have tried to fly... I surely would not post anything  in regards to NFZ if i did not already try! and i have tried the can thing but no luck .. Have not done the foil thing .. I'll try that next ...

Take your aircraft out of the NFZ. Start the motors. Shut the aircraft down. It must have a valid GPS fix outside any NFZ. Cover the GPS antenna per the video. Do not let it get a GPS fix inside the NFZ. Go fly in atti mode inside your building. Once it identifies its location inside a NFZ, it has to get a valid location outside of NFZ before it will activate again. If you’ve tried to fly inside that building, covered the GPS antenna and tried to fly again you’re spinning your wheels. It’s locked out until it gets a fix outside a NFZ. I proved this today in reverse. I drove to a fire house, 1 block from a prison NFZ. I covered the antenna with a piece of aluminum. The motors start and the aircraft hovered. I landed and removed the aluminum sheet. It got a GPS fix before I was able to restart the motors. Controller indicated “NFZ” with no response to the CSC. I placed the aluminum back over the antenna and rebooted the aircraft. “NFZ” I left and drove outside the 5 or 6 block circle around the prison, and at some point as I was driving the “NFZ” disappeared. (No, I didn’t go back. It’s not a very nice area and I think I was able to prove my suspicions)

Jeff
2018-10-22
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Mark The Droner
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Jeff Millard Posted at 2018-10-22 19:56
It must have a valid GPS fix outside any NFZ. Cover the GPS antenna per the video. Do not let it get a GPS fix inside the NFZ. Go fly in atti mode inside your building. ...

Yes, I've read this before too.  The previous flight has to be outside of an NFZ.  Good catch!  

Also, if you're still having trouble with the soda can, you might consider using a copper shield rather than the aluminum soda can.  I just posted that vid above to illustrate the concept.  I thought you'd be okay w/ aluminum since you're already under a roof.  Copper is a better shield.  That's probably why DJI uses copper even though it's more expensive.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE ... wA4dWJCEi:rk:2:pf:0

2018-10-23
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HarleyGuy55
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Jeff Millard Posted at 2018-10-22 19:56
Take your aircraft out of the NFZ. Start the motors. Shut the aircraft down. It must have a valid GPS fix outside any NFZ. Cover the GPS antenna per the video. Do not let it get a GPS fix inside the NFZ. Go fly in atti mode inside your building. Once it identifies its location inside a NFZ, it has to get a valid location outside of NFZ before it will activate again. If you’ve tried to fly inside that building, covered the GPS antenna and tried to fly again you’re spinning your wheels. It’s locked out until it gets a fix outside a NFZ. I proved this today in reverse. I drove to a fire house, 1 block from a prison NFZ. I covered the antenna with a piece of aluminum. The motors start and the aircraft hovered. I landed and removed the aluminum sheet. It got a GPS fix before I was able to restart the motors. Controller indicated “NFZ” with no response to the CSC. I placed the aluminum back over the antenna and rebooted the aircraft. “NFZ” I left and drove outside the 5 or 6 block circle around the prison, and at some point as I was driving the “NFZ” disappeared. (No, I didn’t go back. It’s not a very nice area and I think I was able to prove my suspicions)

Jeff

Thank you so very much , that is a wealth of info... I will try that.. I fly around my property then drive to work which is 500yards from airport, Hell the Big O amazon prime jets shake our building sometimes that's how close we are. anyway i drive here then i cover the drone but it will not take off.. So now i will cover the drone at my house before i get here . Thank you !
2018-10-23
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HarleyGuy55
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Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-10-23 02:32
Yes, I've read this before too.  The previous flight has to be outside of an NFZ.  Good catch!  

Also, if you're still having trouble with the soda can, you might consider using a copper shield rather than the aluminum soda can.  I just posted that vid above to illustrate the concept.  I thought you'd be okay w/ aluminum since you're already under a roof.  Copper is a better shield.  That's probably why DJI uses copper even though it's more expensive.  

That's a great idea .. I have thin copper sheets here at work we use them for shimming motors up for shaft alignment .. I could take one that's damaged and cut it exactly the size i need.. great idea. Thank you !
2018-10-23
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HarleyGuy55
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FishinTexas2015 Posted at 2018-10-7 11:34
Have you tried searching online for one of the previous firmware versions? A while back I had updated the firmware on my Phantom 3 and I suddenly was unable to fly in certain areas (despite having proper authorization) so I found a copy of the previous firmware, deleted/cleared my drone and uploaded the old firmware...afterwards I was able to fly with no issues. Perhaps this may work with your Phantom 4

I have a P4P V2.0 ..I will look around .. Do ya have a direction of searching please ?
2018-10-23
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djiuser_PuWKkYD91haf
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Mine says i live within 6 miles of 4 airports but i can still fly all around but its saying im flying in a restricted area and to call and notify the right authority who would i call to fly my drone in glenmont ny in my backyard lol how whould they know i am doing it
2018-10-26
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