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Jpeg Preview image shows WIDER image than RAW image?!
986 33 2018-9-24
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Jose Ramos
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Hi there!

I´ve been using my Mavic 2 Pro in Iceland. To my great surprise, and thanks to my rental car placed right in the corner of the jpg preview, I realized the RAW file shows a much less wide field of view. Both images have a 1:5 ratio between width/height, and the RAW image is 20mp. How is this possible? If DJI is cropping and adjusting the base image, how does it end up with 20 megapixel?

Please explain this. Dji Mavic jpg raw size difference.JPG
2018-9-24
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Eric13
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That's due to the fact that the RAW file is unprocessed - means distortion has not been corrected. See the distorted horizon?
And that is the way it is supposed to be.

If you take care of that in post you'll get back everything. Then you'll need to do some cropping after 'unbending'.
Once this is done you get to where the JPG is - with much better qualiy of course :-)
2018-9-24
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Wachtberger
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Please post the Jpeg image for comparison, thank you!
2018-9-24
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Jose Ramos
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Eric13 Posted at 2018-9-24 14:27
That's due to the fact that the RAW file is unprocessed - means distortion has not been corrected. See the distorted horizon?
And that is the way it is supposed to be.

You read it the wrong way. I know how RAW and jpg works. I decided to create this post because it´s the jpg preview which shows the larger and distorted image, while the RAW shows the "cooked" image. Check the image I attached.
2018-9-24
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Jose Ramos
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Wachtberger Posted at 2018-9-24 14:28
Please post the Jpeg image for comparison, thank you!

The jpg is in the lower right corner of my screen capture. It´s quite obvious that it shows a larger area of the image.
2018-9-24
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Eric13
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Jose Ramos Posted at 2018-9-24 14:32
The jpg is in the lower right corner of my screen capture. It´s quite obvious that it shows a larger area of the image.

I don't really get it since IrfanView says it is displaying the DNG image, not JPG.
The confusion might be because depending on settings in software RAWs will be displayed as RAW decode or embedded preview.

I think this is what your other software - displaying the larger image (also DNG) - is doing.
You have to manually set software to: Don't touch my fu**ing RAWs!
It'll be somewhere in there.
2018-9-24
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Jose Ramos
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Eric13 Posted at 2018-9-24 15:03
I don't really get it since IrfanView says it is displaying the DNG image, not JPG.
The confusion might be because depending on settings in software RAWs will be displayed as RAW decode or embedded preview.

Irfanview is doing what every image reader does with a raw file: open its embedded small jpg preview. Now the question is: how does the jpg show more real estate image than the RAW file directly opened in Adobe Camera Raw?!
2018-9-24
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Eric13
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Jose Ramos Posted at 2018-9-24 15:18
Irfanview is doing what every image reader does with a raw file: open its embedded small jpg preview. Now the question is: how does the jpg show more real estate image than the RAW file directly opened in Adobe Camera Raw?!

I did answer this in my initial post.
A jpg contains in-camera adjustments.
Work on your RAW and you'll recover space you think that might not be there.
2018-9-24
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Ex Machina
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Jose Ramos Posted at 2018-9-24 15:18
Irfanview is doing what every image reader does with a raw file: open its embedded small jpg preview. Now the question is: how does the jpg show more real estate image than the RAW file directly opened in Adobe Camera Raw?!

Turn off lens correction for the RAW file and you should see the same perspective as the JPG.

There is, or used to be, an 8px difference in dimension between JPG and DNG, but pretty sure what you are seeing in the DNG is the the result of lens correction.
2018-9-24
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Jose Ramos
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Eric13 Posted at 2018-9-24 15:36
I did answer this in my initial post.

A jpg contains in-camera adjustments.

Man, are you kidding me? Look at the image I posted. The jpg preview shows a larger area of the image than the actual RAW file. Look at the small white car on the bottom right. The jpg preview shows a wider field of view than the RAW file. Look at the horizon in the jpg preview, it has barrel distortion which is corrected in the RAW file.

In a RAW file I can recover highlights, shadows, etc, but i CAN´T get back the part of the image which is shown on the jpg preview, but which was strangely cropped in the RAW version.

(By the way, just in case I´m not being clear enough, I opened the RAW in Irfanview, and it showed me the jpg preview of the RAW file, and then I opened the RAW file on Adobe Camera RAW and did NOT touch it)
2018-9-24
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Jose Ramos
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Ex Machina Posted at 2018-9-24 15:37
Turn off lens correction for the RAW file and you should see the same perspective as the JPG.

There is, or used to be, an 8px difference in dimension between JPG and DNG, but pretty sure what you are seeing in the DNG is the the result of lens correction.

Finally someone who understands photography and realized some sort of correction was applied in the RAW file... Where do I turn off the lens correction?

Now the following question: both the jpg and RAW have the same height/width ratio of 1:1.5. If the original non lens-corrected RAW image (shown by the jpg preview) was using the full sensor and had 20 megapixel, how does the RAW image I open in Adobe Camera RAW (lens corrected) also show 20 megapixel? Is DJI cooking their RAW files, adjusting distortion and cropping them, and then re-upsizing to 20mp?
2018-9-24
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Ex Machina
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Jose Ramos Posted at 2018-9-24 15:42
Finally someone who understands photography and realized some sort of correction was applied in the RAW file... Where do I turn off the lens correction?

Now the following question: both the jpg and RAW have the same height/width ratio of 1:1.5. If the original non lens-corrected RAW image (shown by the jpg preview) was using the full sensor and had 20 megapixel, how does the RAW image I open in Adobe Camera RAW (lens corrected) also show 20 megapixel? Is DJI cooking their RAW files, adjusting distortion and cropping them, and then re-upsizing to 20mp?

Your photo editor of choice may or may not allow you to turn off embedded profiles. I suspect there are tools out there that can strip profiles from DNG if that's the case and you really want to reclaim those pixels.

As for the 20MP question, DJI isn't cooking RAW files, rather the RAW editor is taking the embedded profile and "cooking" them at render time. Guessing the result is something shy of 20MP due to cropping, but the source file is still 20MP.
2018-9-24
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Eric13
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Jose Ramos Posted at 2018-9-24 15:40
Man, are you kidding me? Look at the image I posted. The jpg preview shows a larger area of the image than the actual RAW file. Look at the small white car on the bottom right. The jpg preview shows a wider field of view than the RAW file. Look at the horizon in the jpg preview, it has barrel distortion which is corrected in the RAW file.

In a RAW file I can recover highlights, shadows, etc, but i CAN´T get back the part of the image which is shown on the jpg preview, but which was strangely cropped in the RAW version.

  
Your aggressive response is inacceptable.
I tried to help and put time into this only to get yelled at.

You still don't unerstand what I said from the very beginning:
You have to distort the RAW to get where the JPG is.

Obviously you don't know anything about photography/post processing and you are resisting to learn.
  
It's a waste of time to deal with you.
If you are lucky your drone crashes next time so you won't have to deal with these problems anymore.

  
2018-9-24
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Jose Ramos
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Eric13 Posted at 2018-9-24 16:13
Your aggressive response is inacceptable.
I tried to help and put time into this only to get yelled at.
You still don't unerstand what I said from the very beginning:

I have not yelled. My caps were only meant for emphasis.

Can you explain how can I edit the RAW file and get a wider field of view like the one shown on the jpg preview of my screen capture? After 13 years of photography, 6 of them professionally, I´ve never found a way to open a RAW file and extract a wider field of view from the file. I would love you to show me how to do it, because with such a technique I would only carry my lightweight 50mm with me and then create ultra wide angle 16mm photos out of it!
2018-9-25
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Eric13
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Jose Ramos Posted at 2018-9-25 04:37
I have not yelled. My caps were only meant for emphasis.

Can you explain how can I edit the RAW file and get a wider field of view like the one shown on the jpg preview of my screen capture? After 13 years of photography, 6 of them professionally, I´ve never found a way to open a RAW file and extract a wider field of view from the file. I would love you to show me how to do it, because with such a technique I would only carry my lightweight 50mm with me and then create ultra wide angle 16mm photos out of it!

I never said you can get a wider field of view then the JPG by RAW editing.
I said you can get to where the JPG is since you claimed your RAW is cropped and information is lost.

It is cropped because your software creates a rectangular image of the non-rectangular RAW file.
RAW files are never rectangular, they are bend. If you unbend them the side/top/bottom information comes back.
See below - the JPG at the bottom shows more to the left and right. That JPG was a result of correcting the disortion of the RAW.
sample.jpg
2018-9-25
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Jose Ramos
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Eric13 Posted at 2018-9-25 11:23
I never said you can get a wider field of view then the JPG by RAW editing.
I said you can get to where the JPG is since you claimed your RAW is cropped and information is lost.


You showed me a raw file which had distortion and then you corrected it and created a jpg.

Now can you tell me how do I "unbent" the DJI raw file and get my cropped space back?
2018-9-25
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Andyh77777
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In my layman understanding of things I thought a raw file contained recorded light levels for each elementary physical point of the sensor.  That being the case the only way the raw file could be non-rectangular would be if the sensor itself had warped into a non-rectangular shape.  In my book that would be a warrantee claim.
2018-9-25
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Eric13 Posted at 2018-9-25 11:23
I never said you can get a wider field of view then the JPG by RAW editing.
I said you can get to where the JPG is since you claimed your RAW is cropped and information is lost.

It is not a claim, I have noticed the same. You have not addressed the fact that they are both a 20meg images with different crop values, seems strange to me. One must be up sampled.
2018-9-25
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Jose Ramos
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GCMedia Posted at 2018-9-25 18:13
It is not a claim, I have noticed the same. You have not addressed the fact that they are both a 20meg images with different crop values, seems strange to me. One must be up sampled.

That´s it! What´s going on?!
2018-9-26
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Jose Ramos
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Jose Ramos Posted at 2018-9-26 14:55
That´s it! What´s going on?!

Anyone else would like to add some input about this?
2018-10-10
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GCMedia
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This is just doing my head in..... there is a large amount of image that gets cropped when converting raw files, so much so that when framing you have to take this into account! Guys, open a raw image in Light Room and watch the conversion as it loads........
2018-10-10
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GCMedia
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Guys, there is massive AUTO distortion correction going on. Look at the cropping compared between images. Both images are 5464 × 3640 in RAW exported for web at 25%. images are BW to compare distortion correction only

Image 1 exported with no correction from LR as RAW



Image 2 exported with no correction from Tonality



Info box in Photoshop raw converter under lens distortion correction. No user Lens correction applied



Overlay of embedded Hasselblad correction on non corrected image

2018-10-10
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Andyh77777 Posted at 2018-9-25 15:21
In my layman understanding of things I thought a raw file contained recorded light levels for each elementary physical point of the sensor.  That being the case the only way the raw file could be non-rectangular would be if the sensor itself had warped into a non-rectangular shape.  In my book that would be a warrantee claim.

only way the raw file could be non-rectangular would be if the sensor itself had warped into a non-rectangular shape.

Or the lens in front of sensor warped the image.

2018-10-10
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HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-10-10 20:27
only way the raw file could be non-rectangular would be if the sensor itself had warped into a non-rectangular shape.

Or the lens in front of sensor warped the image.

Sadly I would say that it is a poor lens design....
2018-10-10
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pjollain
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Let's correct all the wrong (to keep polite) things written here.

A RAW (or DNG) file is always rectangular, as it is the dump of the sensor, and the sensor is always rectangular.
The image projected by the lens is circular, and covers all the sensor. Otherwise it would really be a very bad design, but I never saw one case so far.

What can make the image not rectangular is when a raw converter software applies distortion correction. The resulting image is not rectangular anymore, so the raw converter crops the image, which explains why you see less information in the RAW (as displayed by the software) compared to the JPG with no correction.
2018-10-10
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pjollain Posted at 2018-10-10 22:56
Let's correct all the wrong (to keep polite) things written here.

A RAW (or DNG) file is always rectangular, as it is the dump of the sensor, and the sensor is always rectangular.

We understand why it is being corrected however look at the amount of correction needed.....
A lens with poor barrel distortion would need more correction.

The next time you frame your image on your phone take note of what is included in the field of view and then process, there is a BIG difference.

This post adjustment needed may be the cause of all of the complaints regarding corner distortion excluding of course the f-stop etc.
2018-10-10
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Jose Ramos
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pjollain Posted at 2018-10-10 22:56
Let's correct all the wrong (to keep polite) things written here.

A RAW (or DNG) file is always rectangular, as it is the dump of the sensor, and the sensor is always rectangular.

The big question is: assuming you the raw dump has 20 megapixel, which is the sensor resolution, how is the aurobatically ajusted final raw image also 20 megapixel? Upsizing?
2018-10-10
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pjollain
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Jose Ramos Posted at 2018-10-10 23:45
The big question is: assuming you the raw dump has 20 megapixel, which is the sensor resolution, how is the aurobatically ajusted final raw image also 20 megapixel? Upsizing?

That's the only solution I can think of. But I am checking if I can find more information about it.
2018-10-11
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2018-10-11
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Jose Ramos
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El Diablo Posted at 2018-10-11 04:23
RAW doesn't show the cooked image, perhaps the opposite? Can you please forward to us the image size in pixels (check properties in both images), it should be 5472×3648

Well, the jpg image is 5472x3648, the RAW is 5464 x 3640, so less 8 pixels on each side. Considering that a jpg shows a much larger area of the scene, something strange is going on, and the RAW must be upsized.
2018-10-11
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2018-10-12
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Crio
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The resolution stays the same, its the actual image that's being stretched ( corrected ) when lens profile is applied. It is correcting pretty massive vignieting too.
Im using RawTherapy since I've noticed this on Inspire 2 to sometimes recover more from my RAW's
2018-10-12
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fanse9f370ed
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I just found the same issue today. The funny this is when you open the DNG in DaVinci or Photoshop, you get to see the whole frame!!!
1-2 20:12
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fanse9f370ed
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And it's totally not about any lens distortion. It seems that Adobe just crops the image. Check this out, google: Images cropped unexpectedly in Lightroom

DaVinci:

Adobe:
1-2 20:19
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