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[Lock Mode] Compromised when gimbal tilted (+new vid)
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3294 44 2018-10-27
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AVsupport
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[BUG]
I was testing this as I was using the RoninS mounted on a tripod (Manfrotto Nitrotech), in an attempt to get 'slideresque' movements:

(I have made my Mode3 being a 'Lock Mode' preventing all movement on all 3 axies)
Everything works fine when I pan or slightly tilt the gimbal on the tripod, the orientation of the camera stays the same, as it should.
As soon as I increase the tilt of the tripod, at about 45degree all the way to 90 (horizontal, which would give you the maximum movement), the 'Lock Mode' doesn't work anymore (on the horizontal PAN axis): The camera gets moved in the direction the tripod (gimbal) Pans.

This is obviously a BUG, as I would think that once I'm in LOCK mode it should lock whichever way I hold the gimbal (this is especially the case when hand holding, making moves from underslung to up, etc)

Could any other user please replicate / confirm this issue.
Could moderator please forward this issue to the engineers.

FW 01.05.00.43 [still there 1.07..]

/edit: there's a new Vid on the bottom of this thread ;-)
2018-10-27
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DJI Mindy
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Hi AVsupport, thanks for your feedback, any chance to share us a short video about the issue so that we can transfer it to our engineers for further verification? Thank you in advance.
2018-10-28
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AVsupport
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Please find the link to the video describing this issue.
Unfortunately I couldn't post in this forum directly hence the link to youtube:



Gimbal is balanced.
All gimbal self tests returned 'Excellent'.
Minimal Deadzones.
Can repeat handheld with same results.

If someone can come up with further suggestions / confirmations please do.
2018-10-29
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DJI Mindy
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AVsupport Posted at 2018-10-29 19:50
Please find the link to the video describing this issue.
Unfortunately I couldn't post in this forum directly hence the link to youtube:

Thanks for the video, we will verify with the engineers and come back to you soon, please wait patiently, thank you.
2018-10-29
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AVsupport
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Thanks Mindy,
Please let me know if your engineers require more information ;-)
2018-10-30
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bob_angie
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AVsupport Posted at 2018-10-30 00:17
Thanks Mindy,
Please let me know if your engineers require more information ;-)

I don't think this is a bug, I don't know for sure, but based on the video, it appears like the Ronin is using the roll motor to keep the camera level with the horizon. When you tilt it forward the amount you're tilting it, the roll motor can no longer stay level if it pans. If the pan motor moves at that angle, the roll motor would go off axis or the camera's height would be lifted. What happens when you manually pan with the joystick at that angle? I would like to see what the Ronin-S does. Currently, the video is slightly confusing as to what you think SHOULD happen. I've never found myself attempting the move you're demonstrating while using the Ronin-s so I cannot confirm how mine reacts. Though this is interesting information.
2018-10-30
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DJI Mindy
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AVsupport Posted at 2018-10-30 00:17
Thanks Mindy,
Please let me know if your engineers require more information ;-)

Thanks for your patience and we have verified with our engineers that the firmware V1.5.0.40 has optimized the following angle of the roll axis when tilting, which is limited to 30°, this limitation is designed to avoid the collide between roll axis and pan axis in the Flashlight mode. Thanks for your understanding.
2018-10-30
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AVsupport
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As a user I would expect the LOCK mode to function all the way from underslung to normal (upright).
The ability of having the Ronin horizontally and in Locked position should be a normal operation just as well and not limited in functionality.
Having the RoninS horizontally allows for a greater radius and total travel distance like the moves you can achieve on a slider.

Please do not artificially restrict this movement.
LOCK mode in FLASHLIGHT position should to be possible IMO.

please consider ;-) @bob_angie , maybe you can try and see why I would like this to work. and why it is not working currently as it is.
/edit: As I understand it, this is obviously not a Bug, but a deliberate movement restriction in the Roll axis.


2018-10-30
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AVsupport
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Please consider:
When you're operating the gimbal handheld, sometime it's nice and more stable to rest the (mini tripod) base on your hips etc. Especially when you want 'locked off' shots where you 'come off' a foreground object and travel horizontally...
Or, if you want to move 'locked off' all the way from floor level (underslung) to head hight, perhaps combined with a slight diagonal move.
In both those realistic examples you would need the Lock Mode to work consistently and flawless through the whole movement range.
In both examples the gimbal is operated with its shooting modes in a wide range of angles, and not limited to 0- 30 and 150-180 degrees.
2018-11-2
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AVsupport
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This issue is still present in FW 1.06.00.48.
2018-11-20
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AVsupport
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Unfortunately this issue is still present in Firmware 1.07.00.60
2018-11-29
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AVsupport
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Diagonal movement (upright left to underslung right, etc) will often result in an abrupt jerky motion where the +/-35degree movement limitation is applied.
This even happens without putting the gimbal in Lock Mode .
2018-12-2
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AVsupport
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unfortunately, this issue still persists in FW 1.7.0.70 (2019.01.17)
1-30 21:13
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Adrian Moisei
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AVsupport Posted at 1-30 21:13
unfortunately, this issue still persists in FW 1.7.0.70 (2019.01.17)

Where did you get FW 1.7.0.70 (2019.01.17) - I cannot see it in DJI PRO Assistant for Ronin
1-31 01:59
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AVsupport
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Adrian Moisei Posted at 1-31 01:59
Where did you get FW 1.7.0.70 (2019.01.17) - I cannot see it in DJI PRO Assistant for Ronin

that's where I saw it. perhaps it's still in Beta, I cannot tell...
1-31 04:31
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AVsupport
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Here's a new video illustrating the issue:

3-9 18:56
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Patrick Seguin
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AVsupport Posted at 2018-10-29 19:50
Please find the link to the video describing this issue.
Unfortunately I couldn't post in this forum directly hence the link to youtube:

Helle AV support, i was wondering what is your set up in this video i see that you have a manfrotto rod attached to the ronin S looks like a good idea. would it be possible to know what it is and how you operate it.  thanks!  
3-15 17:43
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Patrick Seguin
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Patrick Seguin Posted at 3-15 17:43
Helle AV support, i was wondering what is your set up in this video i see that you have a manfrotto rod attached to the ronin S looks like a good idea. would it be possible to know what it is and how you operate it.  thanks!

Got my answer on your initial post!
3-15 18:58
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sky_makai
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AVsupport Posted at 3-9 18:56
Here's a new video illustrating the issue:

RoninS LockModeIssue

Excellent description of this issue.  It needs to be fixed, as it makes the Ronin-S useless as for jib shots.
3-16 11:09
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Meierhans
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I second that. Should be fixed in next firmware!
3-16 12:07
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AVsupport
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Patrick Seguin Posted at 3-15 18:58
Got my answer on your initial post!

hi Patrick! Yes this is all Smallrig stuff. love these guys, they make great components. It's the top mount plus a nato handle. I got my monitor on the other side usually, via adaptor plate and mini monitor arm ;-)
3-17 04:07
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AVsupport
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Patrick Seguin Posted at 3-15 18:58
Got my answer on your initial post!

hi Patrick! Yes this is all Smallrig stuff. love these guys, they make great components. It's the top mount plus a nato handle. I got my monitor on the other side usually, via adaptor plate and mini monitor arm ;-)
3-17 04:07
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sky_makai
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AVsupport Posted at 3-9 18:56
Here's a new video illustrating the issue:

RoninS LockModeIssue

I have the same issue, which is very disappointing.  

I cannot use the Ronin-S in flashlight mode while holding the handle sideways.  The gimbal behaves erratically and smashes against my camera lens.

Both issues seem related; flashlight mode isn't fully developed.  
A future firmware update for flashlight mode use would be a big benefit.  


3-21 07:55
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sky_makai
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bob_angie Posted at 2018-10-30 00:38
I don't think this is a bug, I don't know for sure, but based on the video, it appears like the Ronin is using the roll motor to keep the camera level with the horizon. When you tilt it forward the amount you're tilting it, the roll motor can no longer stay level if it pans. If the pan motor moves at that angle, the roll motor would go off axis or the camera's height would be lifted. What happens when you manually pan with the joystick at that angle? I would like to see what the Ronin-S does. Currently, the video is slightly confusing as to what you think SHOULD happen. I've never found myself attempting the move you're demonstrating while using the Ronin-s so I cannot confirm how mine reacts. Though this is interesting information.

It looks like the roll motor always needs to be on top of the load, which somewhat limits the range of motion while in flashlight mode.

I've found that it will to about 40 degrees in left or right when using the joystick.  

That means it *should* be able to keep orientation lock up to about 40 degrees when in flashlight mode, but it doesn't.  Even with Smoothtrack turned off, the motion is translated when moving from left to right.  
3-21 07:59
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AVsupport
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DJI Mindy Posted at 2018-10-30 00:55
Thanks for your patience and we have verified with our engineers that the firmware V1.5.0.40 has optimized the following angle of the roll axis when tilting, which is limited to 30°, this limitation is designed to avoid the collide between roll axis and pan axis in the Flashlight mode. Thanks for your understanding.

Hi Mindy,
Could you please have a look at my latest vid in this thread [FW 1.7.0.80], maybe this helps explain to the engineers why this is a big problem.
Consider, in 'Flashlight Mode', you still CAN move the camera in the desired +/-30 degree PAN by means of the joystick. But if you rotate the gimbal to do the same, you cannot.
Second, there is no hitting of axies if you are horizontal, facing forward, panning +/-40 degrees, that needs to be avoided. (You can test this: In upright position, gimbal in lock mode, PAN joint angle to +/-40 degree, then tilt gimbal 0-90degree [torchlight]. )
It just restricts vital gimbal movement for 'slider'-look on tripod, or if carrying forward, against the body.
Also, if the gimbal handle is rotated 90 degrees, it works perfectly, but jerks violently when moving to underslung. [please see video]
Unfortunately, the movement coding does not stack up how it should..Could you please forward to your engineers for fixing. If this has been implemented to make '360 Roll' feature work, then this limitation needs to engage when you initate the 360Roll mode, but not part of standard operation.
This is a bug.
Thank you ;-)

3-23 19:04
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AVsupport
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sky_makai Posted at 3-21 07:59
It looks like the roll motor always needs to be on top of the load, which somewhat limits the range of motion while in flashlight mode.

I've found that it will to about 40 degrees in left or right when using the joystick.  

thanks for verifying @sky_makai,
I think it's important to highlight to the engineers why this is a big issue. The more people do, the better our chances to be heard.
I found the easiest way to determine the angles is via App>Motor Parameters>more>Joint Angle (in lock mode only, not locked becomes a relative parameter) .
I found 'flashlight mode' to be defined +/-30 from the horizontal plane straight forward, thus restricting PAN movements there, On joystick: +/-30  on handle: perhaps as little as 5?
In other words, gimbal tilt forwards up until -40 joint angle tilt allows no restrictions,
after that (-38 tilt), PAN LEFT with joystick Attitude is limited to -30 (=-30 joint angle ROLL), RIGHT unlimited. However, you can still have unrestricted movement with the handle itself.
Below that (tilt 45) both PAN LEFT & RIGHT joystick Attitude are limited +/-30. But not if pan occurs via gimbal movement.
The 'total lockdown' starts with Torchlight Mode, TILT >60:
Whilst joystick movements are still avail +/-30 PAN, the gimbal movement Joint Angle is locked down to +/-10 degrees PAN whatever you wanna do..

Is this how you see it or am I missing something?
(I tested this with the Gimbal on a tripod)

3-23 19:35
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Chris_E
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Very good explanation AVsupport! Hopefully, DJI will address this in the next firmware update. Any official comment would be appreciated!
3-26 01:13
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jp90
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Glad I'm not the only person frustrated by this. I upgraded from a Zhiyun Crane plus as I wanted a gimbal that could take a higher weight however it's a big disappointment that you cant perform a slider type shot across the full range of the axis.

Does anyone know if this is just a limitation of all new gimbals with an angled motor to see the screen or is it just an issue with the Ronin S. Might have to switch to an alternative if this cant be resolved.
4-9 08:06
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goldenllamaproductions
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Thank you for making this video! I've been so frustrated with this issue as well. I make a lot of jib shots and it's so hard to keep the gimbal forward facing and locked off. At some point it always pans to the left or right ruining my shot. I would LOVE to have this "fixed" and an option to keep it truly locked at any angle.

Thank you Mindy and engineers!
4-10 18:05
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AVsupport
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I would hope that this gets addressed soon.
It has been more than 6 months since this has been pointed out..
4-16 23:49
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sky_makai
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Thanks again for pointing this out, @AVsupport.  

@DJI Mindy, it's been a while since this issue was pointed out.  Can you confirm it's being worked on??
4-20 17:40
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AVsupport
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@DJIMindy , is any progress being made on this issue?
4-27 14:36
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sky_makai
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AVsupport Posted at 4-27 14:36
@DJIMindy , is any progress being made on this issue?

Seems like it's not important to DJI?  @DJIMindy @DJISupport
5-30 12:01
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Daniiii
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Thanks for this post @AVsupport. Waiting  (for too long) for a full range lock mode...
7-12 00:31
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sky_makai
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I really don't know why @DJI isn't looking into fixing this!
9-23 16:02
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AVsupport
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it's still there. now you can shoot vertical in torchlight, but have the same issues..
9-28 05:05
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fans90578428
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Hello! i have a problem with ronin s essentials, they rotating in Lock mode!
can you tell what can be done with it to fix this error?
9-30 03:15
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fans90578428
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Firmware is  V2.0.0.90
9-30 04:05
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fans90578428
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https://yadi.sk/i/f8yIaODKLHA5vgRonin S Lock mode error video
10-1 00:56
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fans90578428
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https://youtu.be/ANSNUiQ_Guw
10-1 01:39
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