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Will M2P get true 4K in the future or not?
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1462 49 2018-10-28
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First
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As it has been known for quite a while now, there is no mode in video that utilizes the full 16:9 sensor area. There is either sensor crop (HQ mode) or ”raw subsampling” (pixel binning).

I am fine with the Mavic being this way, if there is a limitation then that’s the case. It is still a great drone in still photography and portability, range etc.

But as a professional videographer I need every pixel on the sensor there is.

Now I would like to get an answer. Will the Mavic 2 Pro ever get full sensor read out, like the P4P, or will it have the current setup indefinately?

I don’t care bout the reason for it, I just want to know if it is temporary or if this is the deal.. thank you.
2018-10-28
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Zatx
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You're not likely to get an answer from Dji. I'm speculating that what we have now is all we'll get out of this model and I suspect the Phantom 5 will make full use of the the exact same sensor and lens. The features and performance of Dji's drones are primarily driven by their marketing department and not the physical capabilities of the craft.
I've learned my lesson; I'm not purchasing another Dji product until it has been out for several months and thoroughly reviewed and test to identify its limitations.

2018-10-28
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First
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I think they should be able to tell us whether this is the deal or not.

I find both the marketing and heat reason  unlikely. I think the postponing of the SeeTheBiggerPicture event and this is linked. There were rumors floating around at the time that there was an issue with the camera/gimbal. DJI denied it.
Anyways, whatever it is it seems it caught DJI off guard because of the postponing. That makes it more likely it is a heat issue from the two of them. And if it is, there might be improvements to come.

This is what I’d like to know. Are there fixes in the making or not.
2018-10-28
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eyecapture
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How is it not a full sensor readout? You have a 20 meg sensor that is 4:3. You HAVE to crop and convert to get to 4k which is only 12 megs. You either get the full width of the sensor in FOV mode and then that is converted to 4k or you get the direct 4k but cropped from the center portion of the sensor. How else do you expect them to give you 4k?

If you want every pixel then it's not 4k and that's not going to happen. There's no way to process 20 meg frames at 30 frames a second. If you want "full sensor" readout then get the zoom.
2018-10-28
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First
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The sensor is not 4:3, it is 3:2.

There are some things about the readings of this sensor that you are not aware about. I didn’t want the threadto be a out that, I just want an answer from DJI.

To sum up, and please don’t question this here as there are other threads, the 16:9 part of the sensor in the M2P is not read as in the P4P. In the P4P every pixel of this portion is read and then downsampled to 4K.

In the M2P only about every other pixel of the 16:9 sensor part is read and is then upscaled. Yes, only about 50% of the pixels are used. In all video modes, HQ or FOV.

No one knows why but I want to know if it will be fixed or if this is the final camera firmware.
2018-10-28
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HCL
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First Posted at 2018-10-28 07:16
The sensor is not 4:3, it is 3:2.

There are some things about the readings of this sensor that you are not aware about. I didn’t want the threadto be a out that, I just want an answer from DJI.

I don't know what you are talking about ... i fly this beauty for almost 2 month now and i always get nice 4K videos :-)
2018-10-28
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First
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Not saying you’re not getting nice videos. I’m saying only 50% of the pixels are sampled.
2018-10-28
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HCL
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And that's simply not true!
2018-10-28
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First
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Yes, it is. The resolution in 4K FOV mode is not greater than 2,7 K in FOV mode. If you are saying it is, you are wrong. Try it yourself and you will see this is true.
2018-10-28
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Montfrooij
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How do 'we' know this is true?
Seems silly to make it work like that.
2018-10-28
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eyecapture
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This is not FACT. This is just assumptions by some YouTubers. At the end of the day no one can SEE the difference in a video. No one stops and freeze frames and compares shots side by side. This is just more whining by "measurebators".
2018-10-28
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First
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I have been a drone operator with my P4P for almost two years and my footage has aired on over 5 television programs. It is not a major income for me but it is a good perk to have when I apply for jobs.

Now, when I try the M2P and realize that Hey, this is not as good as my old bird which I have now sold. Do you not think that concerns me? Is IS niticeable unless you have a lousy monitor or below average eye sight.

And all of this is irrelevant even, for the question/statement of this thread was not The M2P is bad, or ”Did you know the M2P is...”, no, it was simply Is this the final version of the camera firmware or not?

So unless you know the question to that, you can, you know... gtfo.
2018-10-28
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roamer105
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First Posted at 2018-10-28 10:48
Yes, it is. The resolution in 4K FOV mode is not greater than 2,7 K in FOV mode. If you are saying it is, you are wrong. Try it yourself and you will see this is true.

The 2.7k readout is not the full sensor width, however FOV is.  There is a small difference, but enough to indicate that it is not 2.7 upconverted (hard to believe that kind of conspiracy theory is still floating around). It appears to me that the FOV readout is using overlap RGGB quad read outs to increase the quality and resolution of the color interpolation while compromising the luminance resolution. The result is blurred 4K details with low contrast but awesome colors. At regular size viewing the PERCEIVED quality and appeal of the M2P image is clearly superior to the P4P. The latter seems much sharper but has awful halos around contrast edges. That sharpness is quite unnatural and the P4P colors are quite poor.

So whatever anyone says I much prefer the quality of footage from the M2P over the P4P and if I really want some highly detailed footage, I shoot HQ. I am sure over the coming 6 or so months there will be some tuning and refinements released to tweak the FOV compromise.
2018-10-28
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TrevorSK
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Any 20 megapixel sensor is about 5K. How on earth does anybody expect to record in 4K without getting rid of some pixels somewhere along the line.
2018-10-28
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Montfrooij
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First Posted at 2018-10-28 21:29
I have been a drone operator with my P4P for almost two years and my footage has aired on over 5 television programs. It is not a major income for me but it is a good perk to have when I apply for jobs.

Now, when I try the M2P and realize that Hey, this is not as good as my old bird which I have now sold. Do you not think that concerns me? Is IS niticeable unless you have a lousy monitor or below average eye sight.

The nice thing about this forum is that there are a lot of people with various backgrounds.
So you will get a lot of info here.
But hardly any from DJI, as they usually don't give away their secrets.

I can tell from my MP that they did tweak their image processing a lot after many complaints about inferior quality, so whatever the reason is of your issue, if they can improve it, they will do that.
But they most likely won't tell about it.

Hope you get your issue sorted!
Do you have some examples from your footage online?
I love to see Sweden from the air!
2018-10-29
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First
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I have a video at home.. recorded same scene in 4K, 2,7K and HQ, D-LogM.

Cropped FOV footage to match HQ. Put it side by side to HQ. Exported to ProRes, one in 4K and one in 1080p.

In 1080p, the difference was significant. In 4K, the difference was big. The FOV footage was crap compared to HQ, and 4K was indifferent to 2,7K.

But this does not matter. What matters is, if I am unsatisfied with the product, shouldn’t I get an answer if this is what to expect and I should deal with it, or move on?

That is what I’m looking for. Is this it, or are there fixes.

I can upload the video in a few days if you need to see it.
2018-10-29
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Zatx
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First Posted at 2018-10-29 03:54
I have a video at home.. recorded same scene in 4K, 2,7K and HQ, D-LogM.

Cropped FOV footage to match HQ. Put it side by side to HQ. Exported to ProRes, one in 4K and one in 1080p.

Coming to these forums and expecting an answer directly from Dji is an exercise in futility. The forum moderators wouldn't have the knowledge, nor the authority even if they did have it, to give a response to your question. Dji leadership does not post to or read these forums.
2018-10-30
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DJI Stephen
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Hi First. Good day and thank you for your support with DJI. Rest assured I will forward this thread to our DJI R&D team for further development of the product. Have a safe and happy flying to you.
2018-11-4
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First
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Thank you Steven!
2018-11-4
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El Diablo
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2018-11-4
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DJI Paladin
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First Posted at 11-4 13:45
Thank you Steven!

Hi there, please let us know if you have other concern, we're here to help. Enjoy and always have a safe flights!
2018-11-6
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First
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El Diablo Posted at 11-4 23:10
Sorry man but you obviously don't know what you are talking about. Skip the idiots on YouTube and get back to reality.

4K HQ is a 1:1 pixel readout. Obviously you do not use the full sensor for that as it is practically impossible unless you spend double the money. Even the newest full frame Canon mirrorless use a crop mode in 4K, let's be serious.
How can it be impossible when the P4P already do and has done it for the last two years?

Lol when continuing reading I realize you are full of made up facts. P4P has oversampling, the GH5 has oversampling. Whatever Canon full frame camera you are babbling about is irrelevant, and I don’t believe it to be true at all.

Besides, what you think is impossible to ask of DJI, is not for you to decide. I want to know if the current method of sensor capture to footage is the final method. Nothing less. Nothing wrong to ask that. So go somewhere else.
2018-11-6
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USMC-2841
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First Posted at 11-6 08:45
How can it be impossible when the P4P already do and has done it for the last two years?

Lol when continuing reading I realize you are full of made up facts. P4P has oversampling, the GH5 has oversampling. Whatever Canon full frame camera you are babbling about is irrelevant, and I don’t believe it to be true at all.

People are on here telling you relavant information:

1. DJI reps here won't answer the question you're asking.
2. Your assumptions about the camera are about as equal to everyone else. No one knows how this SOC processes the image. Is it inferior to the P4P? Yes, its outlandish to think DJI would kill their P4P series with a more portable/cheaper drone when they just released V2.0 a few months prior.

You've found a product that fit your needs with the P4P, you obviously care about camera quality more so why not sell the Mavic and go back to the P4P that you were satisfied with instead of waiting around for answers you're not going to get.
2018-11-7
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hallmark007
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USMC-2841 Posted at 11-7 11:19
People are on here telling you relavant information:

1. DJI reps here won't answer the question you're asking.

The real problem here is, phantom 4pro was €400 more expensive 2 years ago and M2P owners want the same camera and pay less for it .
2018-11-7
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jpap
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I am with the OP and would really like to see DJI’s response to the originally posted question.
2018-11-7
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El Diablo
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2018-11-9
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Zatx Posted at 10-28 03:29
You're not likely to get an answer from Dji. I'm speculating that what we have now is all we'll get out of this model and I suspect the Phantom 5 will make full use of the the exact same sensor and lens. The features and performance of Dji's drones are primarily driven by their marketing department and not the physical capabilities of the craft.
I've learned my lesson; I'm not purchasing another Dji product until it has been out for several months and thoroughly reviewed and test to identify its limitations.

It’s sad but true. I can’t trust them anymore. Once you’ve been burnt....
2018-11-9
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What’s a megapickle??
2018-11-9
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First Posted at 10-28 03:46
I think they should be able to tell us whether this is the deal or not.

I find both the marketing and heat reason  unlikely. I think the postponing of the SeeTheBiggerPicture event and this is linked. There were rumors floating around at the time that there was an issue with the camera/gimbal. DJI denied it.

“See the bigger picture” with a cropped sensor.
2018-11-9
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eyecapture Posted at 10-28 06:40
How is it not a full sensor readout? You have a 20 meg sensor that is 4:3. You HAVE to crop and convert to get to 4k which is only 12 megs. You either get the full width of the sensor in FOV mode and then that is converted to 4k or you get the direct 4k but cropped from the center portion of the sensor. How else do you expect them to give you 4k?

If you want every pixel then it's not 4k and that's not going to happen. There's no way to process 20 meg frames at 30 frames a second. If you want "full sensor" readout then get the zoom.

He didn’t say “full sensor”, he was impling the correct aspect ratio.
2018-11-9
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HCL Posted at 10-28 09:09
And that's simply not true!

Based upon what?
2018-11-9
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eyecapture Posted at 10-28 10:55
This is not FACT. This is just assumptions by some YouTubers. At the end of the day no one can SEE the difference in a video. No one stops and freeze frames and compares shots side by side. This is just more whining by "measurebators".

DJI did come out and admit that they are pixel binning in the FOV mode.  The original question is, are they planning on changing their DSP.
2018-11-9
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First Posted at 10-28 21:29
I have been a drone operator with my P4P for almost two years and my footage has aired on over 5 television programs. It is not a major income for me but it is a good perk to have when I apply for jobs.

Now, when I try the M2P and realize that Hey, this is not as good as my old bird which I have now sold. Do you not think that concerns me? Is IS niticeable unless you have a lousy monitor or below average eye sight.

I feel sorry for you.  There are so many DJI defenders on this forum, it’s ridiculous.  They think that DJI’s sh’t doesn’t stink.
2018-11-9
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El Diablo
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2018-11-9
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First
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You think so and that’s fine. I do not. Which is also fine. Especially when the P5 is around the corner. Of course I’d like to know if this is as good as it gets for the M2P or not. Otherwise I might make the wrong purchase for my needs.

It’s been a while now since I made the original post and it seems there are no improvements on the horizon for the camera. Meaning I will get the P5. What if it gets full SD-card slot and 200+mbit/s bitrate? The drooling is real. With a zoom lens. Drooling on the zoom lens is real.
2018-11-9
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El Diablo Posted at 11-9 02:18
You are right about the "defenders", I had many conflicts myself in the past.

HOWEVER, this FoV vs HQ vs P4P controversy is getting out of proportions. EVERY PRO photographer or videographer that has used the new Mavic has stated that there is indeed a difference in quality due to the binning / skipping method BUT after editing, the footage is practicalyy indistinguishable. That is the reality.

The two issues with this forum are:
1. The moderators neither speak with authority nor follow up on legitimate questions. It feels like the moderators don’t have 2 way communication with the engineers. I wouldn’t be surprised if they even have 1 way communication with the engineers. They are also inconsistent in their responses from moderator to moderator, showing that they don’t have any formal processes for clear and succinct answers.
2. Due to point 1. users of the forum feel they have to step up to fill the gap left by DJI, causing this opinion base conversations.

Whether I agree or disagree with First’s question, or have an opinion of my own, I strongly believe that he has a right to ask the question here, have it answered by the DJI moderators without being bombarded with others opinions.

If users have genuine questions about how to use their drones, sure, people should help, but the opinion based sh’t annoys me.
2018-11-9
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El Diablo
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El Diablo Posted at 11-9 03:37
I don't disagree with you in any point.

My issue with First is that he doesn't own the drone therefore he hasn't any personal experience with it and he is basing his assumptions of poor image quality in someone else's video that had to many flaws to be considered serious.

I owned a DJI S1000, so it was more like carrying around a small horse to get better quality images. ;-)
2018-11-9
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El Diablo
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2018-11-9
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First
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El Diablo Posted at 11-9 03:37
I don't disagree with you in any point.

My issue with First is that he doesn't own the drone therefore he hasn't any personal experience with it and he is basing his assumptions of poor image quality in someone else's video that had to many flaws to be considered serious.

I have used the M2P a couple of times since my girlfriend owns one. And I have compared footage from the HQ mode and the 2.7K and 4K FOV mode myself, all shot in D-LOG and with appropiate gamma curve applied in post. I then cropped the FOV footage to match the HQ footage.

I have come to the same conclusion as the videos on Youtube I assume you are refering to, and that is:

1) 4K yields no better results than 2,7K
2) 4K and 2,7K has far, far less details than HQ. Try it.
2) HQ mode detail is OK for my standards

All this is based from footage of the same scene of trees, a fence and a tennis court during an overcast day. Pretty optimal for a test scene.

Now, HQ mode utilizes a smaller area of the sensor. In fact it is hardly larger than a 1/2.3 inch sensor, as found in Mavic 2 Zoom.

Since 4K FOV looks identical to 2,7K, and the sensor has 5,2K pixels in 16:9 mode, one can assume only 50% of all pixels in the 16:9 portion of the 1inch sensor are used in 4K as opposed to 100% in P4P.
2018-11-9
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