Geebax Posted at 11-4 16:54
Quite true, and probably because there is no money in making them or they are no use. Parachute systems have not been big sellers and there are a lot of reason for that. Night lights are also a waste of time when most aviation regulatory bodies prohibit night flights whether you have lights on board or not. Try working with the regulations rather than trying to buck them.

I would have to respectfully disagree with you. There are a lot of things DJI doesn't make that others do. I am sure if there is a reason it is because they are sticking to their core strengths...making drones.

Lots of companies make cases. Lots of companies make decals and skins. There are landing pads, lights, gimbal locks, filters and lots of other drones accessories made by third party manufacturers...I am sure they are in it for the money...must be money in it or why would they do it.

I understand DJI may not endorse a third party product...I can understand them not making an accessory...but then work with someone or find someone who they will endorse in support of the product or services that their community can feel confident using.

I am pretty sure we would prefer to work with someone that DJI recommends...but regularly/consistantly saying we don't support or recommend without providing an alternate isn't helpful.

KennyB Posted at 11-4 17:52
I would have to respectfully disagree with you. There are a lot of things DJI doesn't make that others do. I am sure if there is a reason it is because they are sticking to their core strengths...making drones.

Lots of companies make cases. Lots of companies make decals and skins. There are landing pads, lights, gimbal locks, filters and lots of other drones accessories made by third party manufacturers...I am sure they are in it for the money...must be money in it or why would they do it.

I would disagree also. DJI is a Chinese company, they are in it for the money, and make a small range of accessories that are in demand or can earn them extra sales, but they are smart enough not to get into making things that don't sell. Try putting up a poll on this site asking how many people have purchased a parachute system, actually fitted it to their aircraft and regularly use it. You will count the yes responses on the fingers of one finger.

DJI don't want you fitting other peoples devices to their product because in most cases the aircraft are not designed to cope with them. There have been several parachute systems in the past, none of the ones I remember are still around today. And they require you to modify the aircraft to fit them. They talk about stoppi9ng the props before deploying the parachute, how? It can only be done by hacking into the aircraft's electronics. No wonder DJI don't approve.

How does the device tell that a manouvre is indicative of a failed aircraft, and therefore decide to deploy? And if you need to manually deploy the chute, how do you do that - particularly in the split second you have to make that decision. Many owners cannot react rationally to situations they fly themselves into, much less do so in an emergency.

Geebax Posted at 11-4 16:54
Quite true, and probably because there is no money in making them or they are no use. Parachute systems have not been big sellers and there are a lot of reason for that. Night lights are also a waste of time when most aviation regulatory bodies prohibit night flights whether you have lights on board or not. Try working with the regulations rather than trying to buck them.

Additionally, I would add the reasons parachutes haven't been a big seller might be due to the high cost and that they were not available for smaller drones. The cheaper and more available they are the more they will be in demand.

Parachutes will be useful for more than waivers...they would be helpful in rotor or power failures as well. The ... rules and regulations are designed for everyones safety but if you can fly safely over people, at night or whichever scenario there is...there isn't anything wrong with that. As a drone pilot we need to be able to solve problems with our drones and skills...the ... wouldn't offer waivers if they were not open to them.

Geebax Posted at 11-4 19:18
I would disagree also. DJI is a Chinese company, they are in it for the money, and make a small range of accessories that are in demand or can earn them extra sales, but they are smart enough not to get into making things that don't sell. Try putting up a poll on this site asking how many people have purchased a parachute system, actually fitted it to their aircraft and regularly use it. You will count the yes responses on the fingers of one finger.

DJI don't want you fitting other peoples devices to their product because in most cases the aircraft are not designed to cope with them. There have been several parachute systems in the past, none of the ones I remember are still around today. And they require you to modify the aircraft to fit them. They talk about stoppi9ng the props before deploying the parachute, how? It can only be done by hacking into the aircraft's electronics. No wonder DJI don't approve.

With a regular rc like a Spektrum, we can add different options that are selectable through the various extra switches on it.

Too bad we can’t have a few extra options selectable, in the current  DJI radios.


RedHotPoker

KennyB Posted at 11-4 19:23
Additionally, I would add the reasons parachutes haven't been a big seller might be due to the high cost and that they were not available for smaller drones. The cheaper and more available they are the more they will be in demand.

Parachutes will be useful for more than waivers...they would be helpful in rotor or power failures as well. The ... rules and regulations are designed for everyones safety but if you can fly safely over people, at night or whichever scenario there is...there isn't anything wrong with that. As a drone pilot we need to be able to solve problems with our drones and skills...the ... wouldn't offer waivers if they were not open to them.

The earlier parachute systems were actually way cheaper than this system, and were designed specifically for Phantoms. But anyhoo, you have no answer for the other points I raised?

As for the 'waiver', I don't believe it is anything like you imagine. The Federal Aviation Authority are still going to insist you maintain a quite high minimum altitude over people, and they won't just give you a waiver because you say you have a parachute fitted. More likely you will have to submit your aircraft and parachute system for testing.

(No idea why the eff a a is not accepted as an abbreviation and is replaced by threee dots. This web site is screwed).  

Geebax Posted at 11-4 19:18
I would disagree also. DJI is a Chinese company, they are in it for the money, and make a small range of accessories that are in demand or can earn them extra sales, but they are smart enough not to get into making things that don't sell. Try putting up a poll on this site asking how many people have purchased a parachute system, actually fitted it to their aircraft and regularly use it. You will count the yes responses on the fingers of one finger.

DJI don't want you fitting other peoples devices to their product because in most cases the aircraft are not designed to cope with them. There have been several parachute systems in the past, none of the ones I remember are still around today. And they require you to modify the aircraft to fit them. They talk about stoppi9ng the props before deploying the parachute, how? It can only be done by hacking into the aircraft's electronics. No wonder DJI don't approve.

Previous models of this product have already been used by Mattice owners and demonstrated on video. How specifically it works or knows is determined by the manufacturer...if it works then it does.

I am not the one arguing that this is a waste of money...I don't know and really don't care who has purchased or used one. These models are "brand new" so probably NO ONE HAS. I will say this...If one person bought this and it saved their drone and or injury by someone underneath the falling drone it doesn't matter HOW MANY BOUGHT IT. IT IS ABOUT SAFETY...PERIOD.

I only care what others are doing if it is effective and relative to me, my drone and the type of flying I do. Otherwise...everyone is welcome to buy or fly however they like as long as it is safe and legal.

You are welcome to take polls, surveys, wave a DJI flag, protest or disagree. I didn't say anything derogatory about the moderator, DJI or even you. Thank you for your opinion and response. Have a nice day/evening.

The Matrice isn’t a Phantom. Far from it...

It was originally called a Matrix. Hahaha


There are plenty of large drones, that may benefit from a safety chute.


RedHotPoker

RedHotPoker Posted at 11-4 19:44
The Matrice isn’t a Phantom. Far from it...

It was originally called a Matrix. Hahaha

I realize they aren't ths same. This company has already succeeded with the Mattice, which is my point. Success with drone parachutes would indicate a chance that this would also succeed.

KennyB Posted at 11-4 19:56
I realize they aren't ths same. This company has already succeeded with the Mattice, which is my point. Success with drone parachutes would indicate a chance that this would also succeed.

Yes, anyways. https://www.dji.com/matrice100

MATRICE... NOT Mattice. Haha


Yes, it would be great to have a safety backup plan.


RedHotPoker

KennyB Posted at 11-4 19:38
Previous models of this product have already been used by Mattice owners and demonstrated on video. How specifically it works or knows is determined by the manufacturer...if it works then it does.

I am not the one arguing that this is a waste of money...I don't know and really don't care who has purchased or used one. These models are "brand new" so probably NO ONE HAS. I will say this...If one person bought this and it saved their drone and or injury by someone underneath the falling drone it doesn't matter HOW MANY BOUGHT IT. IT IS ABOUT SAFETY...PERIOD.

I am not the one arguing that this is a waste of money...I don't know and really don't care who has purchased or used one. These models are "brand new" so probably NO ONE HAS.

As I said, and Mark did also, there have been several of these over the years. And I have never seen anyone come on this forum saying they bought one and it was/not a great success.

I will say this...If one person bought this and it saved their drone and or injury by someone underneath the falling drone it doesn't matter HOW MANY BOUGHT IT. IT IS ABOUT SAFETY...PERIOD.

Most responsible owners of drones avoid flying over crowds of people, because just about every aviation regulatoy body in the world prohibits flight over people.

But you appear to be happy to accept the sales pitch without questioning any of the dubious tech it claims, so all the best to you.

Geebax Posted at 11-4 20:23
I am not the one arguing that this is a waste of money...I don't know and really don't care who has purchased or used one. These models are "brand new" so probably NO ONE HAS.

As I said, and Mark did also, there have been several of these over the years. And I have never seen anyone come on this forum saying they bought one and it was/not a great success.

History has never determined future success. Innovation is always progressing. I have not, as already mentioned, bought or endorsed this product but I have also not determined it a failure based on history or other similar products. Using history to predict failure especially in such a young industry would be a mistake. Plenty of people failed before the success of manned flight...then they continued and eventually succeeded. Give up and limit yourself and the industry all you want.

I have not bought his product nor bought the sales pitch but I am also not out to condemn it as you are...I am willing to wait and see. I am optimistic about the drone industry as a whole and what it is and will be capable of in the future. Enjoy being a cynical pessimist that is your right.

KennyB Posted at 11-4 20:52
History has never determined future success. Innovation is always progressing. I have not, as already mentioned, bought or endorsed this product but I have also not determined it a failure based on history or other similar products. Using history to predict failure especially in such a young industry would be a mistake. Plenty of people failed before the success of manned flight...then they continued and eventually succeeded. Give up and limit yourself and the industry all you want.

I have not bought his product nor bought the sales pitch but I am also not out to condemn it as you are...I am willing to wait and see. I am optimistic about the drone industry as a whole and what it is and will be capable of in the future. Enjoy being a cynical pessimist that is your right.

'Enjoy being a cynical pessimist that is your right.'

The catch-cry of the eternal optimist. There is another term, often applied to pessimists who actually have a good deal of technical knowledge and are equipped to cast an eye over hyped technology, that is a realist.

These are timely.






RedHotPoker

Geebax Posted at 11-4 21:31
'Enjoy being a cynical pessimist that is your right.'

The catch-cry of the eternal optimist. There is another term, often applied to pessimists who actually have a good deal of technical knowledge and are equipped to cast an eye over hyped technology, that is a realist.

All I can say is WOW you don't know me at all to call me an external optimist. I know what a realist is as I am one...i have worked in a very technical field for nearly thirty years.

You just enjoy posting and arguing. Go find another post and axe to grind or bone to chew on...I won't indulge you any more...not worth my time or energy....I have flying to do. Happy flying

Just a side note - that other company that was making drone parachutes - this was maybe a couple years ago - I recall a thread where somebody was using it and the chute opened up when it shouldn't have.  Got tangled up in the props and brought the perfectly good Phantom crashing down to the ground because the props prevented the chute from opening correctly.  Destroyed it.  The member / Phantom owner was fully reimbursed for his crashed Phantom by the parachute company!  I admired them for that - that's excellent support for a start up.  But apparently the company failed long term and fell by the wayside because I haven't heard anything about that particular company for quite a while.  Here are some threads going back a couple years... https://www.google.com/search?q= ... chrome&ie=UTF-8

Mark The Droner Posted at 11-5 03:10
Just a side note - that other company that was making drone parachutes - this was maybe a couple years ago - I recall a thread where somebody was using it and the chute opened up when it shouldn't have.  Got tangled up in the props and brought the perfectly good Phantom crashing down to the ground because the props prevented the chute from opening correctly.  Destroyed it.  The member / Phantom owner was fully reimbursed for his crashed Phantom by the parachute company!  I admired them for that - that's excellent support for a start up.  But apparently the company failed long term and fell by the wayside because I haven't heard anything about that particular company for quite a while.  Here are some threads going back a couple years... https://www.google.com/search?q=parachute+site%3Aphantompilots.com&rlz=1C1AVNE_enUS623US633&oq=parachute+site%3Aphantompilots.com&aqs=chrome..69i57.8951j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Good story. Thanks for sharing. I will have to check out your link.

An excerpt from the article/press release I provided.

The ParaZero drone safety system being used for the operations under this waiver includes a fully autonomous triggering system that deploys quickly and reliably without being dependent on the operator’s response time. Once the parachute deploys, the system stops the spinning rotors to avoid entanglement with the parachute cords and reduces the risk of laceration injuries to people on the ground.

“We spent many months developing and testing our parachute systems. The data that was collected from these tests was provided to the ... and is a critical component of the waiver application.” said Avi Lozowick, Director of Policy and Strategy at ParaZero. “We had to prove to the ... that the descent rate was consistently low enough to provide an acceptable impact energy and that the system will work properly in all types of failure scenarios.”

KennyB Posted at 11-5 06:15
An excerpt from the article/press release I provided.

The ParaZero drone safety system being used for the operations under this waiver includes a fully autonomous triggering system that deploys quickly and reliably without being dependent on the operator’s response time. Once the parachute deploys, the system stops the spinning rotors to avoid entanglement with the parachute cords and reduces the risk of laceration injuries to people on the ground.

When you get yours installed, post a pic, then a video of it deployed and operational.

I like to see new tech, being used successfully.


RedHotPoker

RedHotPoker Posted at 11-5 14:52
When you get yours installed, post a pic, then a video of it deployed and operational.

I like to see new tech, being used successfully.

Might be a while since they are taking preorders now but I sure will.

KennyB Posted at 11-5 15:19
Might be a while since they are taking preorders now but I sure will.

Looking forward to seeing it work, without minor error.


I hope it’s not too costly, as it would be prohibitive for many.



RedHotPoker

RedHotPoker Posted at 11-5 15:22
Looking forward to seeing it work, without minor error.

The cost will be made up by project work and being able to write it off on my business taxes.

KennyB Posted at 11-5 17:45
The cost will be made up by project work and being able to write it off on my business taxes.

That’s excellent. Hope it all works in your good favour.

It will be interesting, to see these in action, in the very near future...



RedHotPoker

I have to ask, how do they shut off the motors, stop them from spinning? i am gonna assume its opening up the drone, is that ok under DJI warranty?

spend about $ 2,000 to save an item that costs the same or maybe it does not make much sense,
and then if it falls into the water ..... you lose the money of the drone and the parachute  :-)

maybe in some rare operations, but not for me.

kenzo Posted at 11-8 00:12
spend about $ 2,000 to save an item that costs the same or maybe it does not make much sense,
and then if it falls into the water ..... you lose the money of the drone and the parachute  :-)

I think the idea is to keep it from falling on people.  See thread title.  

kenzo Posted at 11-8 00:12
spend about $ 2,000 to save an item that costs the same or maybe it does not make much sense,
and then if it falls into the water ..... you lose the money of the drone and the parachute  :-)

I believe these are supposed to retail for around $300...I don't think they are for sale just yet but that is my understanding...the $2,000 ones are for the Mattice or larger drones...not the Phantom or Mavic. I agree $2,000 would be stupid when the drone is less than that...LOL

Mark The Droner Posted at 11-8 03:44
I think the idea is to keep it from falling on people.  See thread title.

It is. You are correct, not injuring people is the main goal of the parachute.

I'll pass but thanks for sharing

Geebax Posted at 11-2 18:21
It is simple, get the aircraft down to under 17 thousand feet and it does not need to be pressurised.

That data is not correct.
The pressurization systems maintain an internal pressure in flight, equivalent to about 8000 feet, bearing in mind the possible structural fatigue.
But above 12,000 feet it is extremely dangerous to fly without oxygen supply.
If an aircraft suffers a depressurization above 10000 feet, it can be qualified as an emergency situation, and the oxygen masks would open at 14,000 feet.
Therefore, I would lower that altitude to 10 or 12,000 feet

I just happened across this info and thought I'd share:  Over-people waiver approvals have around a 99% rejection rate from the FAA.

https://jrupprechtlaw.com/ubers-drone-delivery-legal-problems

I suppose we can all dream of a day when drones have transponders, parachutes and other safety features to gain access to the full airspace just like manned aircraft. Presently, flying in several countries is too restrictive and legally risky. I gave up boating decades ago for the same reasons.

Mark The Droner Posted at 11-16 08:33
I just happened across this info and thought I'd share:  Over people waiver approvals have around a 99% rejection rate from the FAA.

https://jrupprechtlaw.com/ubers-drone-delivery-legal-problems

I wonder if the 1% have parachutes fitted, I somehow doubt it :-)

All,

Here is an update on this. Here is the actual parachute in action deploying on a Phantom 4...I am still not sure how the rotors stop...I figure this will be revealed later.

KennyB Posted at 12-3 04:32
All,

Here is an update on this. Here is the actual parachute in action deploying on a Phantom 4...I am still not sure how the rotors stop...I figure this will be revealed later.

To quote the manufacturer: 'We use physical soft stoppers' So, if you watch the video, the whole unit rotates so that the ring shaped 'ears' stop the blades.

Geebax Posted at 12-3 12:50
To quote the manufacturer: 'We use physical soft stoppers' So, if you watch the video, the whole unit rotates so that the ring shaped 'ears' stop the blades.

I guess I didn't see that. I was wondering what those were for...now I know...thanks for catching that.

Man, you're pulling out all the stops and applying for waivers for just about everything!
Or was that somebody else?

You bring something to mind that I sometimes ponder: Can or should the FAA place an sUAS Pilot on the No Fly No Buy list if deemed dangerous?

Joszhe Tosa Posted at 12-22 02:10
Man, you're pulling out all the stops and applying for waivers for just about everything!
Or was that somebody else?

I am...if you are referring to the night waiver as well...that is me. I think they should but I don't think waiver status plays into that. I think it is a matter of your record, reports filed against you etc.

If you are dangerous there probably should be a now fly list. Actually there is...they will revoke your license

Joszhe Tosa Posted at 12-22 02:10
Man, you're pulling out all the stops and applying for waivers for just about everything!
Or was that somebody else?

I haven't applied for this waiver yet...LOL...maybe some day...daylight waiver first.

Here it is...the system/thing is real and it works.