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TB50 c-rating / max power draw
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Flo the Pirate
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Anybody know what the C rating on the TB50 is ? Anybody knows the maximum power draw of an inspire 2 ? Can´t find any info on that.

2018-12-4
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RichJ53
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Sorry this information has not been provided by DJI. DJI uses a intelligent system or (BMS/ smart battery management system). AS you most likely know, DJI feels the user should not do any maintenance on their batteries and when things are not working.... just buy a new one.   The TB50 I took apart has the company and part number on each cell.  LiPo battery 16.26Wh 3.8v N576223A0779
I found the manufacture website however, I have not pursued any additional information.

All the best
Rich

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2018-12-4
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Flo the Pirate
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RichJ53 Posted at 12-4 09:59
Sorry this information has not been provided by DJI. DJI uses a intelligent system or (BMS/ smart battery management system). AS you most likely know, DJI feels the user should not do any maintenance on their batteries and when things are not working.... just buy a new one.   The TB50 I took apart has the company and part number on each cell.  LiPo battery 16.26Wh 3.8v N576223A0779
I found the manufacture website however, I have not pursued any additional information.

Hi Rich,

thank you for your information and the awesome look inside the battery !!! I will try to find the "c rating" with the information provided. I want to use dual TB50 with a cable cam that will draw a lot of power ... the original lipos have a c rating i want to match ... that´s why i am looking for this
2018-12-4
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Flo the Pirate Posted at 12-4 10:35
Hi Rich,

thank you for your information and the awesome look inside the battery  !!! I will try to find the "c rating" with the information provided. I want to use dual TB50 with a cable cam that will draw a lot of power ... the original lipos have a c rating i want to match ... that´s why i am looking for this

Be aware, however, that there may be more obstacles involved when using DJI's batteries with any non-DJI  load, i.e. possible hand-shaking procedure requirements. To draw a current from these batteries is a challenge itself. You'll need a special adapter to do so, but it's purposely designed for small currents (cable size).

https://store.dji.com/product/inspire-2-remote-charing-cable
2018-12-4
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Flo the Pirate Posted at 12-4 10:35
Hi Rich,

thank you for your information and the awesome look inside the battery  !!! I will try to find the "c rating" with the information provided. I want to use dual TB50 with a cable cam that will draw a lot of power ... the original lipos have a c rating i want to match ... that´s why i am looking for this

Hi

I am not sure what your project you are working on, but these batteries might not be the ones to use? They require some resistance load before they will power on.  You may want to use a more traditional pack that has the balance port and power leads giving you more control.

I hope you find what you are looking for  

Rich
  
2018-12-4
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Flo the Pirate
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Matthew Dobrski Posted at 12-4 14:12
Be aware, however, that there may be more obstacles involved when using DJI's batteries with any non-DJI  load, i.e. possible hand-shaking procedure requirements. To draw a current from these batteries is a challenge itself. You'll need a special adapter to do so, but it's purposely designed for small currents (cable size).

https://store.dji.com/product/inspire-2-remote-charing-cable

Hi Mat,

thanx for your input ! I was looking at that cable - as well as ripping apart the quad charger to get this adapter .... planning for awg10/12 cabling

what do you mean by hand-shake , do you have any bad experience ? ( i know what hand-shake is )

2018-12-5
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Flo the Pirate
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RichJ53 Posted at 12-4 16:40
Hi

I am not sure what your project you are working on, but these batteries might not be the ones to use? They require some resistance load before they will power on.  You may want to use a more traditional pack that has the balance port and power leads giving you more control.

Thank you for your input ! I was looking to use those as they have the self-heating implemented . My environment is -10 to -20 Celsius and very remote.

what do you think about the ronin 2 dual battery cradle - it´s supposed to be used as external power source without being connected to a dji product. It has dtap out and a 10 pin limo. I am using it sometimes to power big cameras with the dtap. I would need to find out what can be drawn from the limo as I need those 26V ...

thank you for any further input you have !

2018-12-5
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Flo the Pirate Posted at 12-5 01:19
Hi Mat,

thanx for your input ! I was looking at that cable - as well as ripping apart the quad charger to get this adapter .... planning for awg10/12 cabling

No, I didn't had any bad experience with this adapter. I'm using it to discharge TB50 batteries for storing or deep-cycling with Angel device. This device is using 24V halogen bulb to draw the current from battery. Anyway, the adapter must contain some sort of circuitry to actually persuade the battery to deliver. It's embedded in plastic mold, no idea what's inside. You plug this square thing into battery socket and it comes to life. The wiring, however, is like 16 AWG.  
2018-12-5
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RichJ53
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Flo the Pirate Posted at 12-5 01:36
Thank you for your input ! I was looking to use those as they have the self-heating implemented . My environment is -10 to -20 Celsius and very remote.

what do you think about the ronin 2 dual battery cradle - it´s supposed to be used as external power source without being connected to a dji product. It has dtap out and a 10 pin limo. I am using it sometimes to power big cameras with the dtap. I would need to find out what can be drawn from the limo as I need those 26V ...

I understand what you are wanting to do and it sounds reasonable to me. I have no experience with this product. DJI states the Dtap at 14.4v will work with other equipment but they do not give much info on the 10 pin limo connection. Typically DJI uses the 10 pin connector to power proprietary circuits and this could be problematic for other devices. I guess you could try.... but it would be nice if DJI could comment and verify this could work for you.

Best of luck with your project.
Rich
2018-12-5
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Flo the Pirate
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Matthew Dobrski Posted at 12-5 02:41
No, I didn't had any bad experience with this adapter. I'm using it to discharge TB50 batteries for storing or deep-cycling with Angel device. This device is using 24V halogen bulb to draw the current from battery. Anyway, the adapter must contain some sort of circuitry to actually persuade the battery to deliver. It's embedded in plastic mold, no idea what's inside. You plug this square thing into battery socket and it comes to life. The wiring, however, is like 16 AWG.

thanx for your reply ! so stoked to get some replies/answers in here !!! if the adapter turns on the battery that sounds good but do you think I can break / cut open the box and get some awg 10/12 wiring in there ? I think it looks like there is a screw to open a lid ... when I look at it in the internet.

2018-12-5
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RichJ53 Posted at 12-5 09:02
I understand what you are wanting to do and it sounds reasonable to me. I have no experience with this product. DJI states the Dtap at 14.4v will work with other equipment but they do not give much info on the 10 pin limo connection. Typically DJI uses the 10 pin connector to power proprietary circuits and this could be problematic for other devices. I guess you could try.... but it would be nice if DJI could comment and verify this could work for you.

Best of luck with your project.

thanx for your reply ! so stoked to get some replies/answers in here !!! I am not counting on Dji giving me/us  the pin out ... I think I just have to try an measure it .... I still hope I could get away with the adapter cable Matthew is suggesting ! Anyway I will post my findings ... hopefully soon
2018-12-5
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Flo the Pirate Posted at 12-5 12:46
thanx for your reply ! so stoked to get some replies/answers in here !!! if the adapter turns on the battery that sounds good but do you think I can break / cut open the box and get some awg 10/12 wiring in there ? I think it looks like there is a screw to open a lid ... when I look at it in the internet.

Nope. I was hoping to achieve the same, but no luck. The box is molded with this DJI multi-pin plug and a cable soldered to it, but there must be something else inside, perhaps an resistor Rich was talking about to act as a triggering load. It is a solid piece of plastic. I even tried to mill the plastic out to reach some soldering points, but ended with a total mess. The cable is designed to deliver a mere 2-3A of current to charge RC or CrystalSky batts.

If I were you, I will not mess with TB50 batts attached to some exotic loads. But - if you're a DIY man and not afraid of challenges - here's an idea of mine. Get one of these 12V warmers, wrap them around whatever LiPO the cable cam is recommended to be used with, power the warmer with separate 3S small LiPO and boom, problem solved! Good luck.
https://www.amazon.ca/Bro-Univer ... VHZ5MX1VEBSP1F9RVS4
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Matthew Dobrski Posted at 12-5 15:46
Nope. I was hoping to achieve the same, but no luck. The box is molded with this DJI multi-pin plug and a cable soldered to it, but there must be something else inside, perhaps an resistor Rich was talking about to act as a triggering load. It is a solid piece of plastic. I even tried to mill the plastic out to reach some soldering points, but ended with a total mess. The cable is designed to deliver a mere 2-3A of current to charge RC or CrystalSky batts.

If I were you, I will not mess with TB50 batts attached to some exotic loads. But - if you're a DIY man and not afraid of challenges - here's an idea of mine. Get one of these 12V warmers, wrap them around whatever LiPO the cable cam is recommended to be used with, power the warmer with separate 3S small LiPO and boom, problem solved! Good luck.

Thanx for putting that straight for me ! I think you are totally right ... it´s probably way over my capabilities - I will look into the handle heaters !
2018-12-6
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Why not just get a couple of 3s LiPos, series them and try out at the temps you're working with?  If you insulate them they'll generate enough self-heat to keep working at low temperatures, if not just wrap a small heating tape around them.
I've used standard 20C or 30C batteries (5s) in self built model helicopters at -10C without problems, drawing about 20 - 60amps under normal flight conditions.  It would be easy enough to do some tests.  

My main caution would be don't buy cheap ones - they're mostly rubbish, make sure you have LV cut-off circuits and charge them properly, using cell balancers etc..  I'm still using mine to power our production camera, after 5 years use!  Also be careful with connections, as you can't switch them off!!

Good luck
2018-12-15
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GeoffG Posted at 12-15 06:29
Why not just get a couple of 3s LiPos, series them and try out at the temps you're working with?  If you insulate them they'll generate enough self-heat to keep working at low temperatures, if not just wrap a small heating tape around them.
I've used standard 20C or 30C batteries (5s) in self built model helicopters at -10C without problems, drawing about 20 - 60amps under normal flight conditions.  It would be easy enough to do some tests.  

Hi Geoff,

thanx for your answer. My problem is I will stress the battery for about 30 seconds , then I will wait for about 15 minutes at around -10C to -20C . That´s why I liked the idea of using the TB50 as they will just heat themselves.

But now I think I will try something with those heat pads ... probably powered from a different battery.

My batteries are inside a compartment so I think it´s a good idea to insulate that from inside. And add
those heating pads .....

what are LVcut-off circuits for ? My charger seems to be pretty ok ... it even talks ;) when the battery is charged.

2018-12-15
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GeoffG
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Lithium batteries are DANGEROUS,  so don't do anything at all with them unless you are competent - get someone to build to your spec..  Don't take this information as gospel - it is given in good faith, but  may not be accurate.

LV cut-off (low voltage cut-off) is a circuit, normally built in the battery pack, designed to protect the battery from over-discharge.  I think you normally have short circut protection (a sophisticated fuse) and possibly thermal protection on the same circuit board, both of which you need.  

The higher the C value, the more current these battery packs can supply, so the more dangerous they are too.  I'd strongly advise buying battery packs with the protection built in.

Your charger will handle over-voltage protection but it must be either programmable, i.e. you input the charge parameters which the manufacturer specifies, or dedicated, designed for the specic battery pack.  A programmable charger will also  have a discharge function, where you set a discharge rate and a LV cut-off voltage -you can then test its performance in Amp or Watt-hours etc..  It should also have a temp probe.

You may have problems finding something economical to heat your battery pack - most trace heating cables are mains voltage and some are expensive.  There are low voltage reptile mats, but usually only 2 or 3 watts, which may not be enough.  If you add heating and  a lot of insulation, be very careful that your battery packs don't overheat  when you load them at full current.  They normally need ventilation at high dischage rates!  Place a probe in contact with the actual battery and monitor its temp carefully when you do your tests.





2018-12-16
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Flo the Pirate
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GeoffG Posted at 12-16 02:37
Lithium batteries are DANGEROUS,  so don't do anything at all with them unless you are competent - get someone to build to your spec..  Don't take this information as gospel - it is given in good faith, but  may not be accurate.

LV cut-off (low voltage cut-off) is a circuit, normally built in the battery pack, designed to protect the battery from over-discharge.  I think you normally have short circut protection (a sophisticated fuse) and possibly thermal protection on the same circuit board, both of which you need.  

Hi Geoff,

thanx for all the info ! I was planning to have 3x 4W heat pads for the two batteries and some good insulation. I have some electronic that will start heating below 20C and stop heating above 25C . For the first tests I will monitor mini / max temps.
2018-12-17
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GeoffG
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Hi Flo,

That sounds perfect!  Be interested to hear how it all goes.  

Is your application drone related?  If so, you can interrogate the DAT files from the aircraft log with CSVview to get temperature data, I think.
Otherwise, a small datalogger (I think you can get USB interface units, would be good to see what's actually happening with temperatures etc..
2018-12-18
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Flo the Pirate
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GeoffG Posted at 12-18 01:06
Hi Flo,

That sounds perfect!  Be interested to hear how it all goes.  

Hi Geoff

this will power a cable cam - I wish I had the knowledge you have about all this stuff. I have one more
question : do you know if you can read the battery temperature through the "balancer" cables from the battery ? what electronic would that be ? could this data be used to control heating very precise ?

thanx again for all your time !
2018-12-19
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RichJ53 Posted at 12-4 09:59
Sorry this information has not been provided by DJI. DJI uses a intelligent system or (BMS/ smart battery management system). AS you most likely know, DJI feels the user should not do any maintenance on their batteries and when things are not working.... just buy a new one.   The TB50 I took apart has the company and part number on each cell.  LiPo battery 16.26Wh 3.8v N576223A0779
I found the manufacture website however, I have not pursued any additional information.

You are always tinkering
2018-12-22
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RichJ53
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Rodger8 Posted at 12-22 06:33
You are always tinkering

Yes, being a retired power guy, I like to keep learning about the new tech.


Rich
2018-12-22
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RichJ53 Posted at 12-22 09:48
Yes, being a retired power guy, I like to keep learning about the new tech.

Just kidding you Rich
2018-12-22
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Flo the Pirate Posted at 12-19 09:59
Hi Geoff

this will power a cable cam  - I wish I had the knowledge you have about all this stuff. I have one more

The temperature may be output from battery connector (see the screen grab), if so it would probably be a thermister, so you would just be looking at the resistance varying with temp.  If that's the case you need to know its characteristics to get an accurate measure, but just seeing the resistance would give you an idea what's happening.  It could also be encoded with other data into a complex signal and then decoded later.

Simple thing would be to get a thermometer with a probe and embed it yourself to get your own data!  
2018-12-23
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Rodger8 Posted at 12-22 17:41
Just kidding you Rich

Merry Christmas Rodger.

Rich
2018-12-23
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RichJ53 Posted at 12-23 20:49
Merry Christmas Rodger.

Rich

To you as well Rich.
2018-12-25
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Flo the Pirate
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GeoffG Posted at 2018-12-16 02:37
Lithium batteries are DANGEROUS,  so don't do anything at all with them unless you are competent - get someone to build to your spec..  Don't take this information as gospel - it is given in good faith, but  may not be accurate.

LV cut-off (low voltage cut-off) is a circuit, normally built in the battery pack, designed to protect the battery from over-discharge.  I think you normally have short circut protection (a sophisticated fuse) and possibly thermal protection on the same circuit board, both of which you need.  

Hi Geoff,

this is what I came up with thanx to your inspiration Two 4w heating pads controlled by a electronic sensor. This is not the final version as you can see the wires are not connected yet. I added an aluminium
plate above the heat elements to distribute the heat and also connected the thermo sensor to it so heating is very gentle .... everything works really good together. I also attached lipo warners. I tested at just above 0 degree outside temperature and battery temps stayed nicely warm at 26 degree ( as decided by me) while pulling 8w for 30 seconds every 2:30 minutes.



1-1 04:52
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Flo the Pirate
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Matthew Dobrski Posted at 2018-12-5 15:46
Nope. I was hoping to achieve the same, but no luck. The box is molded with this DJI multi-pin plug and a cable soldered to it, but there must be something else inside, perhaps an resistor Rich was talking about to act as a triggering load. It is a solid piece of plastic. I even tried to mill the plastic out to reach some soldering points, but ended with a total mess. The cable is designed to deliver a mere 2-3A of current to charge RC or CrystalSky batts.

If I were you, I will not mess with TB50 batts attached to some exotic loads. But - if you're a DIY man and not afraid of challenges - here's an idea of mine. Get one of these 12V warmers, wrap them around whatever LiPO the cable cam is recommended to be used with, power the warmer with separate 3S small LiPO and boom, problem solved! Good luck.

hi Matt

this is what I came up with thanx to your inspiration  Two 4w heating pads controlled by a electronic sensor. This is not the final version as you can see the wires are not connected yet. I added an aluminium
plate above the heat elements to distribute the heat and also connected the thermo sensor to it so heating is very gentle .... everything works really good together. I also attached lipo warners. I tested at just above 0 degree outside temperature and battery temps stayed nicely warm at 26 degree ( as decided by me) while pulling 8w for 30 seconds every 2:30 minutes.
1-1 05:09
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Hi Flo,
That's really neat!  Auto control on the temperature as well.  Need to make sure that the insulation doesn't cause the batteries to get too hot went they're delivering a load current as well though.
Keep us informed - relaly interesting project.  Could you get a temperature readout from the controller?
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Flo the Pirate Posted at 1-1 05:09
hi Matt

this is what I came up with thanx to your inspiration  Two 4w heating pads controlled by a electronic sensor. This is not the final version as you can see the wires are not connected yet. I added an aluminium

Boom, here we go! I assume the thermostat will read battery temperature regardless if it's under load or not, therefore the warmer will be activated whenever there's a need for it. Or ... there's no thermostat at all, just a timed switch on/off ... Than - indeed - you must take Geoff's comment into consideration.

Just my curiosity ... Are you going to chase skiers on the slopes of Austrian Alps with your cable cam? Show us some pics, if you don't mind ...

Happy New Year!
1-1 11:47
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Flo the Pirate
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Matthew Dobrski Posted at 1-1 11:47
Boom, here we go! I assume the thermostat will read battery temperature regardless if it's under load or not, therefore the warmer will be activated whenever there's a need for it. Or ... there's no thermostat at all, just a timed switch on/off ... Than - indeed - you must take Geoff's comment into consideration.

Just my curiosity ... Are you going to chase skiers on the slopes of Austrian Alps with your cable cam? Show us some pics, if you don't mind ...

the Thermostat kicks in whenever the temperature goes below 26 degree - I just finished with the build so I haven´t tested it in real world use but I hope lipos will stay in their temperature specs.

Yes - we will chase some snowboarders in the snow ... first mission Japan

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Flo the Pirate
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GeoffG Posted at 1-1 10:10
Hi Flo,
That's really neat!  Auto control on the temperature as well.  Need to make sure that the insulation doesn't cause the batteries to get too hot went they're delivering a load current as well though.
Keep us informed - relaly interesting project.  Could you get a temperature readout from the controller?

I will watch temperatures closely when doing the first real tests ! I didn´t have the time to read more into how to exactly do the temperature read out from the controller - I am more a user / camera op than a real model builder - that´s also why I am here at dji and the inspire forum ;)
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Flo the Pirate Posted at 1-2 00:30
the Thermostat kicks in whenever the temperature goes below 26 degree - I just finished with the build so I haven´t tested it in real world use but I hope lipos will stay in their temperature specs.

Yes - we will chase some snowboarders in the snow ... first mission Japan  

All right than, good luck!
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RichJ53 Posted at 2018-12-4 09:59
Sorry this information has not been provided by DJI. DJI uses a intelligent system or (BMS/ smart battery management system). AS you most likely know, DJI feels the user should not do any maintenance on their batteries and when things are not working.... just buy a new one.   The TB50 I took apart has the company and part number on each cell.  LiPo battery 16.26Wh 3.8v N576223A0779
I found the manufacture website however, I have not pursued any additional information.

These are not LiPO batteries, they are obviously LiHV
4-27 06:33
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claudioNC Posted at 4-27 06:33
These are not LiPO batteries, they are obviously LiHV


Wow this is an old thread.

You are correct DJI uses batteries that can be charged to 4.35v per cell and have a higher power density. But in the End it is a still Lithium Polymer LiPo HV  battery ….and only capable of cheap low Amp ratings.

copied information talking about smaller FPV drones
What is LiHV battery?

LiHV (or HVLi) stands for “High Voltage Lithium Polymer”. It’s a similar to LiPo battery but allows you charge it up to 4.35V per cell safely.

When you charge LiHV batteries like standard LiPo to only 4.20V per cell, they perform pretty much similar. However when you charge them fully to 4.35V per cell you get the following advantages
:
•With a fully charged HVLi battery, voltage is higher than normal LiPo’s (on a 4S, HVLi is 17.4V,  LiPo is 16.8V), therefore your motors will run harder at higher RPM, and your quad can fly faster theoretically

•Secondly, LiHV can store more energy than LiPo per weight, so theoretically (again) you get longer flight time. Hyperion (the company that makes these HVLi batteries I am testing) states there is a 10% increase in capacity than standard LiPo’s of the same size and weight

•Lastly, good quality HVLi has lower voltage sag on high throttle





Thanks for clarifying
Rich
4-27 21:00
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Flo the Pirate Posted at 1-1 04:52
Hi Geoff,

this is what I came up with thanx to your inspiration  Two 4w heating pads controlled by a electronic sensor. This is not the final version as you can see the wires are not connected yet. I added an aluminium

Nice work!
Thanks for sharing your ideas

Rich
4-27 21:05
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