Is trying to destroy our hobby, this has just taken place

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-46623754

Here's hoping they get caught and prosecuted.

ya those idiots don't know any boundaries. They are there in the UK and they are here in the USA. They are everywhere and it's not our fault for not getting on this early. They should have had some kind of class to take just to buy one but those days are long past now so our governments are really the ones to blame for it. Others may not think so but they failed us commercial and hobbyist quad PIC's.

Personally speaking endangering an aircraft like this should mean jail time. Knowingly flying endangering life is beyond stupid, its criminal.

Some idiots think the rules don't apply to them!!

M2Wair Posted at 12-19 15:53
Personally speaking endangering an aircraft like this should mean jail time. Knowingly flying endangering life is beyond stupid, its criminal.

I couldn't agree more!

I suppose we as drone pilots know that this will always be end result of trying to fly around or close to airports.
Your post says fool but the report seems to be about Fools, more than one.

How do you stop it from happening , and are the authorities doing enough to stop it happening, it leads me to believe that action taken by dji to stop this happening should be respected for what it is, many will say dji should not be operating NFZ GEO, but I believe if it wasn’t the case we would be seeing a lot more of this.
At least we can say that the drone community and particularly those who accept NFZ for what it is are doing something positive.
Although it seems very simple there is so much coverage of extreme drone flying dangerous drone flying and outright ridiculous drone flying all over YT, you would think that authorities could make a start right there.
Should YT be allowed to publish this practice of illegal flying, many videos being published just to show the bravado of the fools, and while they continue to publish more and more outrageous and dangerous videos, then that’s what we will see more and more of the same. But one would think that this is one avenue that could be closed.

I don’t believe changing the rules for flying drones need or will be changed because of incidents like this, so those who choose to use the code for flying shouldn’t be to concerned about these incidents, particularly in view of the fact that the drone communities and manufacturers are progressive on this front.
Those in charge of policing the law need to also be more progressive, more rules and laws won’t stop idiots doing what they do.

Hi, thanks for sharing this information. Please be responsible for using our drones and abide by our local policies when in terms of flying the drone. Thank you for continued support.

So presumably these are not DJI drones, or if they were they had been hacked. Either way an example is needed, to thwart anyone with half a brain even thinking they can get away with this kind of risky flying. There are other scenarios where the individuals involved could actually have criminal intent. The news media have not really helped by sensationalise these behaviours - you get those chimp brains thinking 'Oh that would be a thrill'. Drop the full weight of the law on them - they took the risk - and so should pay the consequences: not least if a disaster happened and a plane was forced into a crash landing or veered off course into another plane ... nuff said.

Seriously, I would just smack that bastard in the face. WTF was he thinking?
And then we all, people that don’t do stupid sh*t like that, we pay the price!!!

Fly safely all
Alex

irony here is UK has some of the strictest drone control for citizens to be able to fly and yet...they seem to have the highest count of violations..

here in america, we have probably the biggest idiot count but more laxed drone control and yet its not as common for this to happem

Dirty Bird Posted at 12-19 18:00
I'm not sure which is worse.  Those who initiate these sensational & unconfirmed/unverified stories about wayward drone indiscretions,  or those who fall far it, time & time again, jumping on the bandwagon spreading the story, & whipping up fear & hysteria?  

"We need licensing before allowing someone to buy a drone!"

ya like i said, the irony of the situation is the UK is among one of the strictest countries that allows their citizens to fly.. yet they have the highest violation count.   

if people in charge would take a few steps back and look at the situation more, realize heavy handed regulations and fear mongering only makes more criminals not fewer..not only that... it just doesn't work, obvious because this still seems to happen every other day in the UK..

Dirty Bird Posted at 12-19 18:00
I'm not sure which is worse.  Those who initiate these sensational & unconfirmed/unverified stories about wayward drone indiscretions,  or those who fall far it, time & time again, jumping on the bandwagon spreading the story, & whipping up fear & hysteria?  

"We need licensing before allowing someone to buy a drone!"

Who knows if it was a drone or a garbage bag blowing around?

Nowaday's it's easy to blame a drone, so where is the proof? Are there photo's or other evidence?

Many years ago a friend released a hot air balloon at midnight. Made from a large dry cleaning bag with a simple metho burner it soared over a nearby town before the fuel was exhausted.

A couple of days later the local newspaper reported the UFO sightings and when the local radio station reported the same story one of the talkback callers told how that he did not only see the UFO but it landed on the road in front of his ute and he saw the aliens

Imagination can be a strange thing. When those few people who knew what actually happened contacted the local newspaper there was zilch result and no retraction.

Why let the truth get in the way of a good story?  

HereForTheBeer Posted at 12-19 20:08
ya like i said, the irony of the situation is the UK is among one of the strictest countries that allows their citizens to fly.. yet they have the highest violation count.   

if people in charge would take a few steps back and look at the situation more, realize heavy handed regulations and fear mongering only makes more criminals not fewer..not only that... it just doesn't work, obvious because this still seems to happen every other day in the UK..

How is the UK one of strictest?
400' AGL
VLOS
500m from congested areas
And we do not need to take any tests or register the drone with any authority. How is that tougher than the US + we can fly in national parks...

The thing is Aardvark that if the person operating the drone is not caught red handed at the time of the incident and is not stupid enough to post their illegal footage on line then they will never be caught - that is what annoys the authorities the most. This is not the first time this has happened either and it won't be the last. My having to register my drone at the end of 2019 will not stop this moron doing the same thing. And given the overall incompetence of some of these airlines it would not surprise me if this was indeed an excuse for the delays and that there was no drone in the first place.

A CW Posted at 12-20 00:08
How is the UK one of strictest?
400' AGL
VLOS

US does not enforce 400 foot AGL rule.. as it isn't a law, it is a rule.  the rule is only applicable to part 107 as well but good guideline regardless.

US does not enforced VLOS, because again, its a rule not a law.. and common sense policy.  again part 107 thing as well...

US doesn't limit you to 500 meters around congested areas, again free to fly as far as your signal lets you....legally.. not even sure if Part 107 rules applies here..

US national parts are a weird point of contention but are also vast most probably would swallow much of the UK or atleast much of england in sheer area alone of some of them.. and state parks and sanctuaries arent illegal to fly in in the US...

the threat of drone seizures or tickets are nearly non existent in the US.. in fact most fines i have seen are when stupid pilots fly over live events and then post it with their name on it online..  even then, fines get seriously reduced or removed upon appeal in court..  

drone registration is optional, i haven't registered my drone i prob never will...not like registering it will help me any probably only harm me one day if i did it..

all the "rules" you seen in the use only apply to part 107 directly...   so worst prob happen is part 107 certification may get revoked but you can just re-apply and take test again to get commercial license, no time out periods or points against you to stop you..


also in the US, its technically speaking not even illegal to fly into an airport airspace unannounced...just extremely ill advised...for obvious reasons..and i'm sure they can find something beyond the drone to arrest you or ticket you for since its highly disruptive..

Going by the news media reports earlier today it would seem these are intentionally malicious flights - intended to halt airport operations at an international airport. So either a political protest or something potentially more sinister. Seems the police can't locate either the drones or the operators. Which would indicate the devices have been engineered to mask their idents/call signs and or are running in a fully autonomous mode.

Dirty Bird Posted at 12-19 18:00
I'm not sure which is worse.  Those who initiate these sensational & unconfirmed/unverified stories about wayward drone indiscretions,  or those who fall far it, time & time again, jumping on the bandwagon spreading the story, & whipping up fear & hysteria?  

"We need licensing before allowing someone to buy a drone!"

Sadly this is not hysteria in this case, it has been Verified by CAA airport staff and verified by police officers. Reported as a deliberate act, Gatwick airport is still closed and the drone has been spotted again this morning over the airfield.

This one incident will have ramifications for us all, worldwide.

HereForTheBeer Posted at 12-20 01:35
US does not enforce 400 foot AGL rule.. as it isn't a law, it is a rule.  the rule is only applicable to part 107 as well but good guideline regardless.

US does not enforced VLOS, because again, its a rule not a law.. and common sense policy.  again part 107 thing as well...

So you can legally fly a drone 10’ above the whitehouse then - you’ll just be breaching rules and couldn’t be arrested. Yeah right!

M2Wair Posted at 12-20 01:47
Sadly this is not hysteria in this case, it has been Verified by CAA airport staff and verified by police officers. Reported as a deliberate act, Gatwick airport is still closed and the drone has been spotted again this morning over the airfield.

This one incident will have ramifications for us all, worldwide.

Those lining up against the hobby - for sure - but its such a useful technology for more than just the military etc. However this 'incident' unfolds, it will hopefully not cause a ban on all drone flights in the years ahead. So far there's been no proof for these airport NFZ incursions only reported 'sightings'. Given what a rep from the Pilots Assoc. said on the radio this morning - basically wanting airport NFZs extended to 5 kms from the current 1km - it would not be surprising if we see mandatory registration and in flight SIG IDs sooner than currently proposed in the UK.

I hope they treat it as a "Terrorist Incident" and adopt the methods our European friends are using when dealing with Terrorists.

A CW Posted at 12-20 01:58
So you can legally fly a drone 10’ above the whitehouse then - you’ll just be breaching rules and couldn’t be arrested. Yeah right!

i dont know about the white house, but i never mentioned the white house, the white house is under restricted special use only airspace....  not sure why feel the need to twist words.. whitehouse isnt under any of airspaces i mentioend on my list, its under its own
plus you questioned (quoted) the 400 foot AGL rule and VLOS rule.  and really dont see the connection to the whitehosue airspace with either quoted lines....?   

Lamplighter55 Posted at 12-20 02:01
Those lining up against the hobby - for sure - but its such a useful technology for more than just the military etc. However this 'incident' unfolds, it will hopefully not cause a ban on all drone flights in the years ahead. So far there's been no proof for these airport NFZ incursions only reported 'sightings'. Given what a rep from the Pilots Assoc. said on the radio this morning - basically wanting airport NFZs extended to 5 kms from the current 1km - it would not be surprising if we see mandatory registration and in flight SIG IDs sooner than currently proposed in the UK.

The main thing the authorities tend to forget is that criminals will break the law irrespective of what new laws are imposed. They can make registration mandatory, educate to the hilt, restrict locations, increase boundaries etc etc etc make the fines ten of thusands and custodial sentences years but If the criminal wants to ground the airport they will and it is very hard to catch them if their app and drone is hacked and they are miles away from the drone. Even bannng drones will not stop it. Enhancing methods of catching the criminal should be the priority - not imposing restrictions on law abiding citizens enjoying their hobby safely.

Lamplighter55 Posted at 12-20 02:01
Those lining up against the hobby - for sure - but its such a useful technology for more than just the military etc. However this 'incident' unfolds, it will hopefully not cause a ban on all drone flights in the years ahead. So far there's been no proof for these airport NFZ incursions only reported 'sightings'. Given what a rep from the Pilots Assoc. said on the radio this morning - basically wanting airport NFZs extended to 5 kms from the current 1km - it would not be surprising if we see mandatory registration and in flight SIG IDs sooner than currently proposed in the UK.

forcing bans and ID beacons and all that but wont stop people form building their own racer quads without all that extra stuff....

i personally am starting to wonder if this is an inside job being done to kill off drones as a hobby and force everything through commercial licensing program...   

inside job being done by the government + commercial drone alliance... prove me wrong..change my mind...etc etc

HereForTheBeer Posted at 12-19 20:08
ya like i said, the irony of the situation is the UK is among one of the strictest countries that allows their citizens to fly.. yet they have the highest violation count.   

if people in charge would take a few steps back and look at the situation more, realize heavy handed regulations and fear mongering only makes more criminals not fewer..not only that... it just doesn't work, obvious because this still seems to happen every other day in the UK..

There seems to be some misunderstanding of the rules, it was only recently that the UK government clarified things a bit by making it illegal to fly above 400ft AGL, or to fly within 1km of an airport.
Like most other countries guidelines our drone code is just that. But by stepping over or ignoring the guidelines is the trigger for the authorities to look for reason to prosecute using laws already in place if they feel the situation warrants action.
There have in fact only been a handful of people ever convicted for drone misuse in the U.K it is not epidemic as you suggest.
The most recent I saw, was somebody flying beyond line of sight, against the guidelines in drone code.
They were not convicted of flying 'beyond line of sight' (which is not a specific law) , but of "failure to maintain direct, unaided visual contact with a small unmanned aircraft and flying it when not reasonably satisfied that the flight can be safely made", which would likely be the case under US & FAA laws.
So very likely if anybody in any country flaunts their local laws, then they leave themselves open to prosecution under existing air safety laws.

Aardvark Posted at 12-20 02:38
There seems to be some misunderstanding of the rules, it was only recently that the UK government clarified things a bit by making it illegal to fly above 400ft AGL, or to fly within 1km of an airport.
Like most other countries guidelines our drone code is just that. But by stepping over or ignoring the guidelines is the trigger for the authorities to look for reason to prosecute using laws already in place if they feel the situation warrants action.
There have in fact only been a handful of people ever convicted for drone misuse in the U.K it is not epidemic as you suggest.

im not suggesting its epidemic, just far more intense on UK side.  maybe im jumped on the "strictest" thing a bit too much or ..well now..maybe too early because given recent occurrences wont surprise me if it because literally the strictest..  

but i was suggesting that if i was to fly the way i do here in the US, i'd prob end up being ticketed or having my drone seized in the UK even though i haven't really had any crashes or incidences and i fly "safe" just within my own capacity not specifically the rules..    (apart from my spark which was possessed by a demon or on an acid trip i think)

Dirty Bird Posted at 12-19 18:00
I'm not sure which is worse.  Those who initiate these sensational & unconfirmed/unverified stories about wayward drone indiscretions,  or those who fall far it, time & time again, jumping on the bandwagon spreading the story, & whipping up fear & hysteria?  

"We need licensing before allowing someone to buy a drone!"

"I'm not sure which is worse.  Those who initiate these sensational & unconfirmed/unverified stories about wayward drone indiscretions,  or those who fall far it, time & time again, jumping on the bandwagon spreading the story, & whipping up fear & hysteria?  "

There is nothing unconfirmed or unverified about the airport being seriously disrupted. And the cause given is that two drones were spotted flying about. Now presumably the information originated from people credible enough for the airport authorities to treat it seriously.

If nothing else it shows how fragile the airports are to potential disruption, and that applies worldwide.

Aardvark Posted at 12-20 02:47
"I'm not sure which is worse.  Those who initiate these sensational & unconfirmed/unverified stories about wayward drone indiscretions,  or those who fall far it, time & time again, jumping on the bandwagon spreading the story, & whipping up fear & hysteria?  "

There is nothing unconfirmed or unverified about the airport being seriously disrupted. And the cause given is that two drones were spotted flying about. Now presumably the information originated from people credible enough for the airport authorities to treat it seriously.

correction....   "two devices"... didn't even mention flying in official article...

HereForTheBeer Posted at 12-20 02:04
i dont know about the white house, but i never mentioned the white house, the white house is under restricted special use only airspace....  not sure why feel the need to twist words.. whitehouse isnt under any of airspaces i mentioend on my list, its under its own
plus you questioned (quoted) the 400 foot AGL rule and VLOS rule.  and really dont see the connection to the whitehosue airspace with either quoted lines....?

Not twisting anything - I’m stating the simple fact that all civilised countries clearly have restrictions,  laws and boundaries and contrary to your belief the UK actually has one of the most relaxed set of drone laws in Europe.

HereForTheBeer Posted at 12-20 02:36
forcing bans and ID beacons and all that but wont stop people form building their own racer quads without all that extra stuff....

i personally am starting to wonder if this is an inside job being done to kill off drones as a hobby and force everything through commercial licensing program...   

The uk government is too busy arguing over Jeremy Corbyn calling May a stupid woman to hold their own drone false flag operations.

A CW Posted at 12-20 03:21
Not twisting anything - I’m stating the simple fact that all civilised countries clearly have restrictions,  laws and boundaries and contrary to your belief the UK actually has one of the most relaxed set of drone laws in Europe.

no you were twisting it....  i never mentioned military or whitehouse, i felt that was obvious enough that if not illegal (prob is but i haven't researched it) probably would get shot down quickly and you probably end up getting hit with some criminal charges, may not even be directly referring your drone just "aircraft" in general..   

as for UK being lax, sure maybe strictest isn't right word but, in the UK it is illegal to fly over 400 feet AGL, or fly over people or within 100-500 meters of crowded areas regardless if your commercial or just someone with a drone...as examples.    to me that's ridiculous, even though makes perfect common sense and are good rules, still ridiculous that its a law...    canada is pretty bad too, they dont even let you fly within 100 meters of wildlife, and intentionally made if vague and refuse to clarify if that includes randomly curious birds flying or not...

someone check dirty's passport... especially if it was a three ship....

Folkestone Posted at 12-20 03:38
The uk government is too busy arguing over Jeremy Corbyn calling May a stupid woman to hold their own drone false flag operations.

Actually it came up today in the House of Lords as an emergency motion to the government minister responsible for all things 'drone'. She just said that as it was currently an ongoing police investigation she couldn't comment. The unfortunate thing is that there is no one properly representing the majority of drone owners in these debates - so you get all the fear mongering and calls to 'ban them' etc etc. with no counter statements.

HereForTheBeer Posted at 12-20 02:42
im not suggesting its epidemic, just far more intense on UK side.  maybe im jumped on the "strictest" thing a bit too much or ..well now..maybe too early because given recent occurrences wont surprise me if it because literally the strictest..  

but i was suggesting that if i was to fly the way i do here in the US, i'd prob end up being ticketed or having my drone seized in the UK even though i haven't really had any crashes or incidences and i fly "safe" just within my own capacity not specifically the rules..    (apart from my spark which was possessed by a demon or on an acid trip i think)

It seems to me that those who complain the most regarding rules and NFZ are coming from US, at least that is the way on this forum, so taking it from this poll of users, they seem to feel more hard done than the rest of us, which is strange, considering you believe the US has the most lenient rules and laws than the rest of the World.

I think what we see here are thousands of people being held to ransom by idiots flying drones around or over airports, i for one would not like to be sitting in an aircraft for hours, because an idiot decides he/she is above the Law.

I think that airports need to take the appropriate action when this kind of problem is reported, they don’t need 100% proof before putting safety measures into action.

It seems if you cannot show 100% proof that this happened, there are those who jump on their own bandwagon to say it didn’t happen.
I think safety will always come first with avaition and I’m quite happy that this is the way. And it’s very clear that this did happen and closed an major Airport for over 16 hours.
Certainly if I was delayed by 16 hours because of idiots flying drones, I’m afraid hating drones would be very high on my hate list, so idiot flying helps no one who flys drones professional or hobbyists, and its instances like this that requires laws and rules to be made.

For someone to even suggest this is some kind of propaganda trip by governments, is ludicrous and only something thought up by the deluded.

It’s not that hard to work out that drones shouldn’t be flying where they are not supposed to, if you can’t accept that then accept the consequences, and this is your own business frankly I don’t think to many are interested in knowing or viewing illegal or ridiculous drone flying escapades. If it’s something that someone wants to do fine but keep it to yourself.

Flying in national parks , why should drones be allowed to fly in national parks , dirt bikes , banger racing etc have been around a lot longer and they can’t use national parks for their hobby and I for one would strongly object to dirt bike racing when I go to visit the park.

Lamplighter55 Posted at 12-20 05:05
Actually it come up today in the House of Lords as an emergency motion to the government minister responsible for all things 'drone'. She just said that as it was currently an ongoing police investigation she couldn't comment. The unfortunate thing is that there is no one properly representing the majority of drone owners in these debates - so you get all the fear mongering and calls to 'ban them' etc etc. with no counter statements.

side note, none of the sightings confirmed it as drones... just all speculation based on "sightings"  and not even mentioning who was responsible for those "sightings" or what was spotted, no discription.      

the other day it was a big dark rectangle or square at 10,000 feet  with minimal separation...called a drone... yet the description sounds more like a box my microwave arrived in, not a drone.. then again now 2 sighting, unconfigured, spotted by only god knows who and speculated to be a drone..   the UK is starting to call everything odd in the sky a drone at this raise....

HereForTheBeer Posted at 12-20 04:23
no you were twisting it....  i never mentioned military or whitehouse, i felt that was obvious enough that if not illegal (prob is but i haven't researched it) probably would get shot down quickly and you probably end up getting hit with some criminal charges, may not even be directly referring your drone just "aircraft" in general..   

as for UK being lax, sure maybe strictest isn't right word but, in the UK it is illegal to fly over 400 feet AGL, or fly over people or within 100-500 meters of crowded areas regardless if your commercial or just someone with a drone...as examples.    to me that's ridiculous, even though makes perfect common sense and are good rules, still ridiculous that its a law...    canada is pretty bad too, they dont even let you fly within 100 meters of wildlife, and intentionally made if vague and refuse to clarify if that includes randomly curious birds flying or not...

No, I never twisted anything. You stated a list of rules in the US and claim that they have no legal substance and therefore played on words yourself to imply that there are no laws governing the use of drones in US airspace to support your argument that the UK have strict drone laws by comparison. I used the basic example of flying a drone near the Whitehouse to support the notion that what you stated is in fact incorrect and that the US has as much regulation and restrictions as the UK, if not even more i.e. the mandatory requirement to register a drone.
BTW - you CAN fly over people in the UK and you can have regulations waived with permission from the CAA which is how TV productions are made. Not quite sure where you are getting your information from but it is clearly inaccurate and rather ill informed.

HereForTheBeer Posted at 12-20 05:18
side note, none of the sightings confirmed it as drones... just all speculation based on "sightings"  and not even mentioning who was responsible for those "sightings" or what was spotted, no discription.      

the other day it was a big dark rectangle or square at 10,000 feet  with minimal separation...called a drone... yet the description sounds more like a box my microwave arrived in, not a drone.. then again now 2 sighting, unconfigured, spotted by only god knows who and speculated to be a drone..   the UK is starting to call everything odd in the sky a drone at this raise....

Maybe your not getting the information there, but there have been many confirmations that it is a drone, Gatwick Airport a major Airport has been closed since 9pm yesterday, now hundreads of thousands of passengers being affected, knock on effects to many other airports with-further delays for thousands of passengers , at a time when many are trying to get home to their families for Christmas ,it is the main story on all news broadcasts, if you think this will not affect both professional and hobbyists who are flying drones for a living and as a hobby your are very removed from any reality.

HereForTheBeer Posted at 12-20 05:18
side note, none of the sightings confirmed it as drones... just all speculation based on "sightings"  and not even mentioning who was responsible for those "sightings" or what was spotted, no discription.      

the other day it was a big dark rectangle or square at 10,000 feet  with minimal separation...called a drone... yet the description sounds more like a box my microwave arrived in, not a drone.. then again now 2 sighting, unconfigured, spotted by only god knows who and speculated to be a drone..   the UK is starting to call everything odd in the sky a drone at this raise....

"side note, none of the sightings confirmed it as drones..."

It would seem otherwise, given one quote:-

"Dr Alan McKenna, from the University of Kent, said the drones appeared to be "of an industrial size" not "one you can buy from the shops"."

Dirty Bird Posted at 12-19 18:00
I'm not sure which is worse.  Those who initiate these sensational & unconfirmed/unverified stories about wayward drone indiscretions,  or those who fall far it, time & time again, jumping on the bandwagon spreading the story, & whipping up fear & hysteria?  

"We need licensing before allowing someone to buy a drone!"

“I'm not sure which is worse.  Those who initiate these sensational & unconfirmed/unverified stories about wayward drone indiscretions,  or those who fall far it, time & time again, jumping on the bandwagon spreading the story, & whipping up fear & hysteria”

I think you will find this story is 100% true, and is still going on at this minute, with hundreads of thousands of passengers held to ransom because of the idiots who think they are above the law.

hallmark007 Posted at 12-20 05:18
It seems to me that those who complain the most regarding rules and NFZ are coming from US, at least that is the way on this forum, so taking it from this poll of users, they seem to feel more hard done than the rest of us, which is strange, considering you believe the US has the most lenient rules and laws than the rest of the World.

I think what we see here are thousands of people being held to ransom by idiots flying drones around or over airports, i for one would not like to be sitting in an aircraft for hours, because an idiot decides he/she is above the Law.

invalid figure with huge extensions of error to use NFZ/flight restrictions on DJI...  DJi and airmaps both are privatized companies enforcing what isn't really required...  DJi locked down the drones, and not one asked them to here in the US...and airmaps works with some of the automated authorization for this stuff on DJI (at-least in the US)...  not required and reason for highest number of complains is probably down that that alone... put a limit where may not be needed..


im not saying these arent drones, im just saying, oddly suspicious that other day what was described was at 10,000 feet and would be how i discribe a shipping box...not a drone.   and just recently 2 drone sightings and not mentioned who spotted them, no descriptions of the sightings..      because all to often the media jumps on drones....for all we know it was someone random spotted it and was a trash bag drifting off in the wind...   more details please.. otherwise not confirmed.


as for suggesting its an inside job, i was mostly joking, given the vague details of everything and the insane level of hype against drones how fast media want to sink teeth into it.   but to think its beyond the realm of possibilities, that's laughable in of itself... how very like it maybe, its not impossibility that its an inside job, history tells us this...governments love their inside jobs..  

im not suggesting i do or dont want drones in national parks, im saying point of contention... i think with specific limited permit, i would be okay with it.. hand it out to small number of people per month and only is valid for a week or so

as for dirt bikes and ATVs, ya i use state parks and game land in my state if i wanna hang out with other ATVers..  they open the trails after certain points of the hunting seasons and in my area they keep the trails open all winter and after certain depth of snow they close down half the trails to ATVs and open it up for Snowmobiles.  only close the upper side the mountain after..some point...  so plenty of fun to have, over 100 miles of public free trails not that far from me

Aardvark Posted at 12-20 05:42
"side note, none of the sightings confirmed it as drones..."

It would seem otherwise, given one quote:-

need more details... that description alone can discribe literally anything being blown around by a gentle breeze.