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Can You Be Tracked With or Without Your Permission By DJI?
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Genghis9
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As many of you are now aware, some idiots, or worse terrorists, drone operator(s) brought Gatwick Airdrome to its knees over the holiday rush by flying over or near the field.  Obviously, this is illegal, but clearly, it was not enough of a deterrent.  At one point, they thought they found the culprits but at best, it was a case of mistaken identity, at worst, it seems it was more like a rush to judgement.  At present, they are still looking for the bad actors and any clues.  So far, for their troubles, they have a damaged drone, no details as to type, in their possession and they are attempting to track down the owner.
In the course of reading the Sun article on this situation, something caught my eye; see the attached pic (item 1), DJI AreoScope, a suit case sized drone tracker that can determine drone make, model, and ID controller location via GPS.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/80 ... dier-reveals-agony/
Many of you should know that a while back in a SW update DJI added the ability to input a drone ID number and other operator/owner information that could be determined through a device such as this.  However, you can choose to not input that info and turn this feature off.  Yet, based on this DJI AreoScope, it would appear they do not need you to turn this info on and that they can, relatively easily, track you and quite possibly find you.  I realize this information is readily available over the airways in the form of radio signals and that anyone with the right gear can perform similar results.  Except they are stating they can capture make and model information which tells me DJI is tapping into some additional capability other than simply finding and ID’ing the drone's and controller's locations.  
This begs the question, has DJI built in a surveillance capability to their drones that we do not really know about?  I am thinking they have such a capability.  What do you experts say or what are the non-expert's opinions on this subject?
  Merry Christmas!
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2018-12-23
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solentlife
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15.8 Million quid for 6 Israeli systems to tackle drones ? When UK already designed and proved a system AUDS Blighter ............. specifically designed for military and civilian use and fully capable of protecting airports !!

As to DJI software ? didn't we have a similar thread recently about similar ? Led to some really daft statements I recall.

I believe that limited info can be obtained from the Drone - but only if it is physically in the hands of the people who know how to extract it. I doubt very much that any info can be obtained while in flight or not in hands of such people.

I seem to recall reading a media article DISCUSSING the possibility of hacking of control signals etc. but it was a discussion.

There was a video on YT ... that tried to show a person hijacking a DJI ... but in reality it turned out to be a 'constructed play'.

Nigel
2018-12-23
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ALABAMA
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solentlife Posted at 12-23 11:28
15.8 Million quid for 6 Israeli systems to tackle drones ? When UK already designed and proved a system AUDS Blighter ............. specifically designed for military and civilian use and fully capable of protecting airports !!

As to DJI software ? didn't we have a similar thread recently about similar ? Led to some really daft statements I recall.

Israel has some of the best defense technology in the world, second only to the US.  The Brits should be commended for recognizing this and making a wise decision.
2018-12-23
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Genghis9
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solentlife Posted at 12-23 11:28
15.8 Million quid for 6 Israeli systems to tackle drones ? When UK already designed and proved a system AUDS Blighter ............. specifically designed for military and civilian use and fully capable of protecting airports !!

As to DJI software ? didn't we have a similar thread recently about similar ? Led to some really daft statements I recall.

Good points...all
As to the UK reaction, I have to agree with the line of thinking as to why it took this event for them to roll out any level of defense and tracking capabilities.  Seems awfully late in the game all else considering.

My point with respect to DJI is they have built in a capability that allows them to read make and model of the device...my further point is if they went that far in doing as much I doubt they stopped there.  As you know each bird has a unique ID # which is tagged to a registered owner, which is tagged to their mailing address etc. etc.  Now assuming they did not go through any great trouble in hiding their identity, which is possible, then I don't think it's a stretch that DJI can detect a lot more than just make and model...but I have no proof, just a pretty good inclination.
2018-12-23
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Genghis9
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ALABAMA Posted at 12-23 16:34
Israel has some of the best defense technology in the world, second only to the US.  The Brits should be commended for recognizing this and making a wise decision.

Agreed, however, I think they should be faulted for reacting to the threat rather than addressing it proactively.
2018-12-23
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Bashy
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From what i understand is, that the information input in the DJI app will no doubt be turned on and made compulsory the day the country its used in goes live with Digital ID's, you will have no choice like we didnt have regarding the damn quiz, its been put in place so that DIJ is ready for it, re AeroScope, i was under the impression that, had these been DJI drones, it would have picked them up and led the police to the controllers location, but only if the controller is turned on still, and regardless of whether their details were inputted in the app, im also thinking that it may give out an email address too, i could be wrong their, been a while since i watched the video on it now.... To answer your question, yes, i believe so using the AeroScope and they were looking into AeroScope being able to search abd find ''other'' makes too....
2018-12-23
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Labroides
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This begs the question, has DJI built in a surveillance capability to their drones that we do not really know about?
For Aeroscope to get information about your drone, the Aeroscope set would have to be operating within a few km of where you are flying at the time you are flying.
2018-12-23
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Genghis9
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Labroides Posted at 12-23 20:34
This begs the question, has DJI built in a surveillance capability to their drones that we do not really know about?
For Aeroscope to get information about your drone, the Aeroscope set would have to be operating within a few km of where you are flying at the time you are flying.

I'm not sure about it being built in, meaning they have put in a transponder type radio...although they may have I can't say for sure either way.  However, I do think they may have programed the firmware to add coded data to the standard control signals that would allow the AeroScope to do more than just ID make and model.  Again I don't have the expertise to know for sure, just my suspicions.
2018-12-23
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Labroides
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Genghis9 Posted at 12-23 23:21
I'm not sure about it being built in, meaning they have put in a transponder type radio...although they may have I can't say for sure either way.  However, I do think they may have programed the firmware to add coded data to the standard control signals that would allow the AeroScope to do more than just ID make and model.  Again I don't have the expertise to know for sure, just my suspicions.

Here's a good introduction to what Aeroscope can do:
https://www.heliguy.com/blog/2018/03/06/discussing-dji-aeroscope/
2018-12-24
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Manxmann
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Hard to imagine that this deplorable incident was what it took to cause the "wake-up" call ?
2018-12-24
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Geebax
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Genghis9 Posted at 12-23 23:21
I'm not sure about it being built in, meaning they have put in a transponder type radio...although they may have I can't say for sure either way.  However, I do think they may have programed the firmware to add coded data to the standard control signals that would allow the AeroScope to do more than just ID make and model.  Again I don't have the expertise to know for sure, just my suspicions.

The latest ads for the DJI Matrice say it has the ability to receive signals from transponders in other aircraft so the operator can get out of their way.
2018-12-24
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solentlife
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ALABAMA Posted at 12-23 16:34
Israel has some of the best defense technology in the world, second only to the US.  The Brits should be commended for recognizing this and making a wise decision.

I do not deny that Israel has developed many outstanding systems ... and i would not put them second to US ...
Without getting in too deep - I would point out that many sophisticated and advanced systems used by US and others - actually originates from UK and UK is still providing such ...

But back to the system - I do not say the Israeli system is inferior or lacking. What I question is why AUDS Blighter was proven already in 2016 not only by UK - but also by US and a number of other countries incl. Battle areas ... its portable ... its a stand alone system ... and not deployed ?

Nigel
2018-12-24
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solentlife
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Whats that saying ... Closing the door after horse has bolted ?

Save a few quid by not having systems in place .. then when needed costs **** times more to sort ..

Nigel
2018-12-24
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ALABAMA
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solentlife Posted at 12-24 05:49
I do not deny that Israel has developed many outstanding systems ... and i would not put them second to US ...
Without getting in too deep - I would point out that many sophisticated and advanced systems used by US and others - actually originates from UK and UK is still providing such ...

Hehehe, In your dreams.  Get in the real world.
2018-12-24
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solentlife
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ALABAMA Posted at 12-24 06:58
Hehehe, In your dreams.  Get in the real world.

Here we go ...

Suggest you do some detective work and look at various electronic packages built into various such as F22 .. F35 ... and then come down to sea and land ... see where BAE Systems and other UK companys have provided ...

Look into the tech was developed for TSR2 and then  handed over to US by our stupid Labour Govt ...

Then of course step across to Nasa and Space ... satelite tech ... comms tech ... even down to Radio Navigation systems ...

Real World ?? The reason USA stands out quite often is because it BUYS in what it cannot create itself ...

But of course it will all be ignored ..

Nigel
2018-12-24
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ALABAMA
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solentlife Posted at 12-24 07:38
Here we go ...

Suggest you do some detective work and look at various electronic packages built into various such as F22 .. F35 ... and then come down to sea and land ... see where BAE Systems and other UK companys have provided ...

I suppose it was you who launched men to the moon,  sent rovers to mars, etc, etc, etc. Don't forget those B52s over there too to protect you again like WWII.  Enough.   Merry Christmas!  Jesus came into the world to save us all!  
2018-12-24
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solentlife
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Yeh ... yeh .. yeh ...

Not worth wasting time actually detailing how much of those are based on German looted tech along with blackmailing UK govt in handing over ...

Nigel
2018-12-24
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Bashy
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ALABAMA Posted at 12-24 08:09
I suppose it was you who launched men to the moon,  sent rovers to mars, etc, etc, etc. Don't forget those B52s over there too to protect you again like WWII.  Enough.   Merry Christmas!  Jesus came into the world to save us all!

Erm, wasnt it the British that helped you guys with "the" bomb ya b52's were carrying, nothing to be proud of mind and i only know this cause if just recently  done a marathon on the series Manhattan , thats if even some of it was true lol i know theres a lot of rubbish to that series, i kept wiki'ing  whilst watching lol
2018-12-24
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solentlife
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Bashy - waste of time trying to get them to actually understand how much USA 'buys in' or gains by pressure from others work.

There are also the products developed by such as UK and then suppressed under USA pressure ... to ensure that US equipment is supplied instead - even when its inferior.

I have spent too much time alongside the above and it is shameful how money talks in this ...

Nigel
2018-12-25
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Genghis9
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Labroides Posted at 12-24 00:23
Here's a good introduction to what Aeroscope can do:
https://www.heliguy.com/blog/2018/03/06/discussing-dji-aeroscope/

Thanks for the info!
2018-12-25
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Genghis9
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Geebax Posted at 12-24 01:03
The latest ads for the DJI Matrice say it has the ability to receive signals from transponders in other aircraft so the operator can get out of their way.

Did not know that...although it sounds like it is a receiver only.  It would be good if the drone could transmit its own transponder code too.  Although I'm not sure the wattage required to make the range large enough to matter would end up necessitating a large power requirement.  That would ultimately cut down on the drone's range or add a lot of weight in batteries to cover it.
2018-12-25
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Genghis9
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solentlife Posted at 12-25 02:14
Bashy - waste of time trying to get them to actually understand how much USA 'buys in' or gains by pressure from others work.

There are also the products developed by such as UK and then suppressed under USA pressure ... to ensure that US equipment is supplied instead - even when its inferior.

You maybe correct, I can't say one way or another, but the assumption seems to be that the USA is evil and bad and everything it has done was by hook and crook.  If so, then why have they spent billions protecting NATO and its allies, I guess it was to secure these other things at those country's expense.  As I'm sure GB would have eventually prevailed against the axis powers and they really didn't need the lend lease program or convoy support to ensure a trade and supply route remain open.  
However, if that is not enough, I'm sure you'll soon get your revenge on the evil empire of the US as China is soon to be positioned as a world dominating power, all at the expense of the US through stolen technology and others means.  I'm equally sure that once this happens and the US is finally put in its place that China will fairly treat all those other countries that were so harshly and unfairly treated by the US.
2018-12-25
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Genghis9 Posted at 12-25 21:18
You maybe correct, I can't say one way or another, but the assumption seems to be that the USA is evil and bad and everything it has done was by hook and crook.  If so, then why have they spent billions protecting NATO and its allies, I guess it was to secure these other things at those country's expense.  As I'm sure GB would have eventually prevailed against the axis powers and they really didn't need the lend lease program or convoy support to ensure a trade and supply route remain open.  
However, if that is not enough, I'm sure you'll soon get your revenge on the evil empire of the US as China is soon to be positioned as a world dominating power, all at the expense of the US through stolen technology and others means.  I'm equally sure that once this happens and the US is finally put in its place that China will fairly treat all those other countries that were so harshly and unfairly treated by the US.

(Said with tongue firmly planted in cheek.)
2018-12-26
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solentlife
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Genghis9 Posted at 12-25 21:18
You maybe correct, I can't say one way or another, but the assumption seems to be that the USA is evil and bad and everything it has done was by hook and crook.  If so, then why have they spent billions protecting NATO and its allies, I guess it was to secure these other things at those country's expense.  As I'm sure GB would have eventually prevailed against the axis powers and they really didn't need the lend lease program or convoy support to ensure a trade and supply route remain open.  
However, if that is not enough, I'm sure you'll soon get your revenge on the evil empire of the US as China is soon to be positioned as a world dominating power, all at the expense of the US through stolen technology and others means.  I'm equally sure that once this happens and the US is finally put in its place that China will fairly treat all those other countries that were so harshly and unfairly treated by the US.

Hi Genghis ...

That's a bit unfair ...

My concern and what I was aiming at - was this belief that USA is all powerful and saviour of the world. No-one denies that Lend Lease and Convoys etc. didn't speed up end of the War ... but there is also a lot of facts that are rarely voiced ... the Destroyers USA gave UK ... the amount of repairs and work needed to get them operational was huge. They did not just start engines and slip lines and sail ! Just one example.
I have spent considerable time working in USA ... East West and Gulf ... and will in future as well. I have seen poverty, hardship and bigotry that belies the great myth of USA for all ..

I was in Iraq - Iran Conflict and saw USA involvement that I would be ashamed of ...

I was running 'equipment' from Miami / Fort Lauderdale to Central America ....

I was in Gulf War 1 - working with the Fuel Supply setup as rep from Saudi SABIC who paying the bill ..

I work in various theatres sorting out fuel supplies in conflicts such as Afghanistan .. Iraq ...

My comments about 'equipment' are based on personal observations and listening to guys using it. I may only be a civilian - but as a Civilian Contractor who has been right up there near front lines ...

Nigel
2018-12-26
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solentlife
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Geebax Posted at 12-26 00:19
(Said with tongue firmly planted in cheek.)

Didn't see you negotiating with Coalition Forces to open a gap in front line in Gulf war to help guys and their families escape Kuwait City ... I was part of the team that helped them out.

As to inferior gear :
Didn't see you repairing M1 Abrams Tanks that couldn't handle being in the desert

Didn't see you in the teams sifting through the destroyed warehouse in Dammam that had US Patriot Missiles fall on it ... killing US National Guard people sleeping inside.

Just a few examples ...

Like I said earlier .... hard to educate some.

Nigel
2018-12-26
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ALABAMA
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I will never understand why certain people are jealous of and hate the US.  If not for us entering WWII, Germany, or Russia would be ruling Britain at this very moment.  Churchill realized this because he knew a stiff upper lip wasn't going to cut it.  I think jealousy and simple pride are the basis for these folks.
2018-12-26
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solentlife
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ALABAMA Posted at 12-26 04:52
I will never understand why certain people are jealous of and hate the US.  If not for us entering WWII, Germany, or Russia would be ruling Britain at this very moment.  Churchill realized this because he knew a stiff upper lip wasn't going to cut it.  I think jealousy and simple pride are the basis for these folks.

Complete and utter balderdash. And if truth be known - the post is really only ...

In fact if you go back into the history and facts ... it was USA that refused to listen to Churchill about Stalin's plans.

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2018-12-26
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solentlife Posted at 12-26 07:00
Complete and utter balderdash. And if truth be known - the post is really only ... [view_image]

In fact if you go back into the history and facts ... it was USA that refused to listen to Churchill about Stalin's plans.

You need to walk thru the American military graves in Europe just one time.  Thousands and thousands of GI's who made the ultimate sacrifice for you.
2018-12-26
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solentlife
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ALABAMA Posted at 12-26 07:58
You need to walk thru the American military graves in Europe just one time.  Thousands and thousands of GI's who made the ultimate sacrifice for you.

That is insulting.

This page from my Mothers Book shall be my answer :




My Mothers Fiancee wounded on the Normandy beach died telling medical orderlies to tend to his men instead of him.

My Father was one of the few left of his squadron who survived Mediterranean duties in the RAF. Ringed in the photo here after another Wellington crash landed.



Then flew many more than his allocation of raids into Germany.


You should go to Europe yourself and see the rows and rows of Gravestones throughout Northern France and the Low Countries from WW1 and WW2 that far outnumber US fallen...
I am saddened by all deaths due to War and I am not demeaning US involvement, but do not try put that guilt onto the British.
I stand appalled by your post.

Nigel

2018-12-26
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solentlife
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Just to show that I have in fact done what I say :

Awarded to me along with 'Thank You' Letter :



Nigel
2018-12-26
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Genghis9
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solentlife Posted at 12-26 01:52
Hi Genghis ...

That's a bit unfair ...

Ya know, I apologize...let's just say I couldn't help myself.
The point is I really don't think you can or should condemn a whole nation and its people based on a few cherry picked facts or observations.  Last I checked, many other allied nations have very much the same problems you pointed out about the US.  Meaning, sometimes the problems are within as much as you'd prefer to believe they are from without.  We need to stick together, as we did in those conflicts you referred.  I was there with you, at least at times, flying your top cover or paving the way for you.  AND nothing about war is pretty, glorious, or nice; either side can attest to that...and we should leave it at that.
I wish you a Glorious New Year and may God Bless You and Yours!!!
2018-12-26
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Geebax Posted at 12-26 00:19
(Said with tongue firmly planted in cheek.)

Actually it was, but I should have held my tongue, just couldn't help myself...
Hope you had a Merry Christmas
God Bless and Wonderful New Year too!!!
2018-12-26
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Genghis9
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solentlife Posted at 12-26 08:29
That is insulting.

This page from my Mothers Book shall be my answer :

I am sorry for the losses too, and appreciate the well founded pride you hold for these brave soles you posted about!
2018-12-26
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solentlife
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Genghis9 Posted at 12-26 10:58
Ya know, I apologize...let's just say I couldn't help myself.
The point is I really don't think you can or should condemn a whole nation and its people based on a few cherry picked facts or observations.  Last I checked, many other allied nations have very much the same problems you pointed out about the US.  Meaning, sometimes the problems are within as much as you'd prefer to believe they are from without.  We need to stick together, as we did in those conflicts you referred.  I was there with you, at least at times, flying your top cover or paving the way for you.  AND nothing about war is pretty, glorious, or nice; either side can attest to that...and we should leave it at that.
I wish you a Glorious New Year and may God Bless You and Yours!!!

Hi Genghis ... there is nothing to apologise for ... I respect your post and opinion as it was given in good and honest faith.

Given our various conversations over time - I think we know each other well enough.
I don't condemn a whole nation .. The British Empire has a lot to answer for in brutality and colonisation - so it falls all ways. My 'beef' is with others narrow minded nationalistic BS they come out with.

Wishing all the Best for 2019 and great flying.

Cheers
Nigel
2018-12-26
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solentlife Posted at 12-26 11:16
Hi Genghis ... there is nothing to apologise for ... I respect your post and opinion as it was given in good and honest faith.

Given our various conversations over time - I think we know each other well enough.

Understood, thanks
2018-12-26
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solentlife
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Cheers .. I'd buy you a beer if we were closer ..

Nigel
2018-12-26
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solentlife Posted at 12-26 08:48
Just to show that I have in fact done what I say :

Awarded to me along with 'Thank You' Letter :

FYI  My father shed blood on Normandy beach.  He spent the rest of his life trying to forget the things he saw and felt in WWII.  I have been on foreign lands myself and know what it feels like to feel the pain of hot lead ripping thru my flesh. Sad to say, I was never recognized by a "gas" company.  This is a drone forum and any further comments you make should be directed to drones only, without personal insults and "America bashing".  Good bye.
2018-12-26
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solentlife Posted at 12-26 02:00
Didn't see you negotiating with Coalition Forces to open a gap in front line in Gulf war to help guys and their families escape Kuwait City ... I was part of the team that helped them out.

As to inferior gear :

Why are you answering me? None of that relates to my post.
2018-12-26
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solentlife
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When originator of the thread or Moderators decide my posts are innapropriate - I shall abide by their decision.

Nigel
2018-12-27
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solentlife Posted at 12-27 02:48
When originator of the thread or Moderators decide my posts are innapropriate - I shall abide by their decision.

Nigel

I still don't see your point, I was replying to Genghis, not commenting on your post. No, I was not in Kuwait, why should I be? None of my business.
2018-12-27
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