DJI only need to give us option to set AFS in basic mode and i will be happy

spicemeister Posted at 1-9 09:29
Hi DJI Mindy,

I've been out testing with the new firmware and I have put the results below along with my opinion on the footage. For the record, I think the firmware has improved it a lot, however as shown in the video, pumping is still present on most shots.

I think if you want to see contrast focus pumping , buy a GH5 one of the most used DSLR for video and some awful focus pumping and that camera will set you back €2500, I fully agree there has been an improvement with latest FW.

dronie1965 Posted at 1-9 03:11
ok i have done some more testing after the new firmware update and have enclosed an example of the pumping issue in afc mode.
it happens especially before and end of a pan. I also did a test when walking while shooting video and I must admit there you practically can not notice a lot of this pumping focus during moving with the op.
But maybe you could check your own Osmo Pocket while standing still and slide the pan slider to left or right and when stopping you probably or might see the pumping focus. maybe for some it is not an issue but I find it important that you should be able to shoot video without this issue, I think if you make a panning clip , for the time being its  better to shoot this part in afs.

I’d agree with this. Although it seems that focus has improved, there is still evidence of focus breathing (pumping) at the beginning and end of pans. In my case, until there is a fix, i shoot with this awareness. So what does that mean? It simply means I may add a couple of extra seconds to the beginning of a pan and edit out the very end of a pan if pumping is evident. Not ideal, but I’m so used to doing workarounds for almost every camera I’ve owned (some costing many multiples of the OP), this is nothing new.

In my case I find it more annoying that EV settings, when in Auto Pro mode, are not retained when the camera is turned off and then back on again. This necessitates me reconnecting the OP to my phone every time I power it back on.

Ken77 Posted at 1-9 12:19
I’d agree with this. Although it seems that focus has improved, there is still evidence of focus breathing (pumping) at the beginning and end of pans. In my case, until there is a fix, i shoot with this awareness. So what does that mean? It simply means I may add a couple of extra seconds to the beginning of a pan and edit out the very end of a pan if pumping is evident. Not ideal, but I’m so used to doing workarounds for almost every camera I’ve owned (some costing many multiples of the OP), this is nothing new.

In my case I find it more annoying that EV settings, when in Auto Pro mode, are not retained when the camera is turned off and then back on again. This necessitates me reconnecting the OP to my phone every time I power it back on.

Yes this ev setting not retaining is by the way also a good point which dji developpers have to look into.

dronie1965 Posted at 1-9 03:11
ok i have done some more testing after the new firmware update and have enclosed an example of the pumping issue in afc mode.
it happens especially before and end of a pan. I also did a test when walking while shooting video and I must admit there you practically can not notice a lot of this pumping focus during moving with the op.
But maybe you could check your own Osmo Pocket while standing still and slide the pan slider to left or right and when stopping you probably or might see the pumping focus. maybe for some it is not an issue but I find it important that you should be able to shoot video without this issue, I think if you make a panning clip , for the time being its  better to shoot this part in afs.

Hi dronie1965, much appreciate that you are willing to provide us the sample video, this has been escalated to our engineers for review, I will keep you updated once there is any further suggestion, thanks for your patience.

DanielVieira Posted at 1-9 09:43
DJI only need to give us option to set AFS in basic mode  and i will be happy

Daniel, we plan to release a new firmware in early February to add focus mode switching toggle between AFC and AFS. We will continuously improve focus performance of Osmo Pocket through firmware updates.

spicemeister Posted at 1-9 09:29
Hi DJI Mindy,

I've been out testing with the new firmware and I have put the results below along with my opinion on the footage. For the record, I think the firmware has improved it a lot, however as shown in the video, pumping is still present on most shots.

Thank you a lot for your assistance to provide us the sample video, we will continuously improve focus performance of Osmo Pocket through firmware updates. Sorry again for the inconvenience caused.

DJI Mindy Posted at 1-10 02:31
Daniel, we plan to release a new firmware in early February to add focus mode switching toggle between AFC and AFS. We will continuously improve focus performance of Osmo Pocket through firmware updates.

That’s great news dji Mindy thank you.

DJI Mindy Posted at 1-10 02:36
Thank you a lot for your assistance to provide us the sample video, we will continuously improve focus performance of Osmo Pocket through firmware updates. Sorry again for the inconvenience caused.

This is a recording with the old firmware.At 1:27 - 1:59 pumping of the autofocus can be seen, although the camera is not moved.Unfortunately,

The autofocus pumped for about 30 seconds



I can not test that at the moment, whether that no longer occurs with the new firmware.

hallmark007 Posted at 1-10 03:01
That’s great news dji Mindy thank you.

You are welcome, thanks for your patience.

Udo13 Posted at 1-10 03:09
This is a recording with the old firmware.At 1:27 - 1:59 pumping of the autofocus can be seen, although the camera is not moved.Unfortunately,

The autofocus pumped for about 30 seconds

Udo13, sorry for the troubles with Osmo Pocket and the inconvenience caused, the new firmware has optimized the focus issue, and we will continuously improve focus performance of Osmo Pocket through firmware updates, please note the future update and always keep the firmware up to date.

spicemeister Posted at 1-9 09:29
Hi DJI Mindy,

I've been out testing with the new firmware and I have put the results below along with my opinion on the footage. For the record, I think the firmware has improved it a lot, however as shown in the video, pumping is still present on most shots.

Now you have to master the Ninja Walk to get ride of the bounce...

Tallguysd Posted at 1-11 23:02
Now you have to master the Ninja Walk to get ride of the bounce...

I've already got that down as I regularly use Zhiyun crane, but for the purposes of this as it was literally just for focus testing I wasn't too bothered about a smooth shot!

With how small this thing is, I've got a feeling it's going to take extra smooth Ninja walking though, looking forward to all the weird looks on holiday

DJI Mindy Posted at 1-10 02:31
Daniel, we plan to release a new firmware in early February to add focus mode switching toggle between AFC and AFS. We will continuously improve focus performance of Osmo Pocket through firmware updates.

DJI Mindy, please could you ask developers to also add an infinity focus option too - with such a small device not everyone wants to be constantly touching the screen to focus.

It took Panasonic almost two years to fix autofocus on GH5, now is usable. If DJI can pull this off in just several months im impressed.

This camera is severely lacking an infinity focus option.
For most everyday shooting , I don't need to blur the background.
I can happily shoot video all day long on my gopro knowing everything will look in focus later on

Udo13 Posted at 1-10 03:09
This is a recording with the old firmware.At 1:27 - 1:59 pumping of the autofocus can be seen, although the camera is not moved.Unfortunately,

The autofocus pumped for about 30 seconds

That was a rare case of focus issue. I think it will be fixed  by next FW.
Thx for your feedback.

PG73 Posted at 1-12 03:46
DJI Mindy, please could you ask developers to also add an infinity focus option too - with such a small device not everyone wants to be constantly touching the screen to focus.

With a fixed f/2.0 lens it's going to be difficult to add a usable infinity focus like the GoPro.

neil video Posted at 1-13 05:28
With a fixed f/2.0 lens it's going to be difficult to add a usable infinity focus like the GoPro.

Why is that exactly? I'm interested to understand why you believe that's the case, thanks.

PG73 Posted at 1-12 03:46
DJI Mindy, please could you ask developers to also add an infinity focus option too - with such a small device not everyone wants to be constantly touching the screen to focus.

Hi PG73, thanks for your suggestion, we will forward it to our engineers for attention.

El Diablo Posted at 1-15 07:00
f/2 on a 1/2.3" sensor is equivalent to f/2 x 5.6 = f/11.2 in 35mm terms so no, it should not be so difficult to achieve infinity focus.

In addition, any iPhone with an even smaller 1/2.5 sensor and brighter camera (f/1.8) have infinity focus.

I suppose infinity focus is technically possible with most digital cameras, but the f2.0 aperture on the Osmo means that it won't be like the GoPro. The closest objects in focus will be around 3m / 10ft away. I guess that would be useful as long as people realise that it won't be any good for selfies etc.

El Diablo Posted at 1-15 23:46
Why?

Take a photo with your mobile phone and see if everything is in focus or not. Again, smaller sensor and brighter lens than the OP or the GoPro. I also don't know where did you got the 3m miniimum focus distance BUT, as the Osmo has a also a front facing mode, they could implement 2 different focus points easily (selfie and infinity).

The minimum focus distance for an 'infinity' focus depends on sensor size, aperture and focal length. The GoPro has the same size sensor, but smaller aperture (f/2.8 vs f/2.0 on the Osmo) and a focal length of approx 15mm v 26mm on the Osmo.

Both the focal length and the aperture mean that the GoPro's lens can focus from approx 0.3m to infinity (according to their website), and this allows them to have a simple fixed focus, unlike the Osmo. Otherwise, there would be no reason for DJI to make their lives difficult by incorporating a sophisticated focus system.

The 3m figure for the Osmo is my estimate based on the properties of the lens and what most people might consider to be acceptably sharp. If you want to crunch the numbers yourself, there are plenty of online depth of field calculators.

El Diablo Posted at 1-17 02:26
I am a Professional photographer so I don't need to check online, thank you.

The apertures you are mentioning are also influenced by a crop factor. In the case of a 1/2.3" of an inch, it is x5.6 times. That means in other words, that f/2 is equivalent to f/11 in 35mm terms. You said 3m will be the minimum focus distance to get infinity focus? Fine by me, I don't think that will be an issue at all.

If I take a selfie with an iPhone, I wouldn't say the background is perfectly in focus.

What do you suspect is happening in the software in the Osmo to achieve a shallower depth of field than a device with a comparable lens? Since the aperture and focal length are fixed, I can't see there's much you can do, other than deliberately not focus on the subject, which would seem like a risky strategy.

It is possible to introduce a fake shallow DoF effect in software such as the portrait mode in some newer phones, but I'd be amazed if the Osmo's processor is capable of doing that while shooting 4K video.

El Diablo Posted at 1-17 02:51
Please read again my first comments.

The Osmo Pocket camera can be turned both ways. Selfie mode could remain as it is and they could implement an infinity focus mode when filming normally.

I think your suggestion of an option for a 3m-infinity focus on non-selfie mode is a good one.

What I can't understand is what you think the Osmo is able to do in software to make the DoF shallower than an iPhone.

El Diablo Posted at 1-17 04:29
Thanks.

I didn't said that  The iPhone has a great DoF (it is only shallow in Portrait mode and that is artificial as we both know). What I said is that the OP should be able to have a fix focus to infinity with pretty much everything in sharp focus like the iPhone or the GoPro.

I'm trying to work out what we don't agree about. Is it that you think the Osmo is capable of having everything from 30cm to infinity in focus like the GoPro? If so, I have given the reasons why that's not possible. The GoPro's lens is different to the Osmo both in focal length and aperture.

Yes - the iPhone has good DoF, but not enough for them to include a fixed focus lens on that either.

El Diablo Posted at 1-17 06:13
You got that right. I do believe that the OP can get an infinity focus option. The GoPro, the OP and the iPhone HAVE fixed lenses and the differences in sensor sizes, apertures and AF systems aren't quite big as you think. The only reason the OP is not focusing at infinity and having all this issues is CHOICE. DJI chose to equip the Osmo with a Tap to Focus system like in the Mavic 1/Pro/Zoom and not fixed like in the Mavic Air/Spark. The technology utilized is exactly the same, the software sets the options and/or limitations.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on that. I think an infinity focus is possible, but only if the minimum focus distance is around 3m, perhaps a little less.

I still don't see how it can be fixed in sofware when its due to the (fixed) characteristics of the lens and sensor size.

neil video Posted at 1-17 06:34
I guess we'll just have to disagree on that. I think an infinity focus is possible, but only if the minimum focus distance is around 3m, perhaps a little less.

I still don't see how it can be fixed in sofware when its due to the (fixed) characteristics of the lens and sensor size.

To get the best quality of video, I can't agree with you. I think that best focus position bring a satisfied video that is not same as gopro. But af pump is ugly. afs mode on camera and a better afc is neccessary. We will continue to improve this issue, THX.

El Diablo Posted at 1-17 07:09
The lens size and characteristics are very, very similar to the Mavic Air. Both are 1/2.3'' CMOS 12Mpx.
The OP is 26mm, the MA 24mm. The OP is f/2 and the MA f/2.8.

There is quite a big difference between f/2.0 and f/2.8 and the 26mm v 24mm will make some difference too.

If DJI thought that they could have a fixed focus from 0.5m (or 0.3m like the GoPro) to infinity on the OP using that lens, surely they would have done it rather than spending money and effort making building a focus system?

El Diablo Posted at 1-17 08:39
You keep insisting that f/2 and f/2.8 on a 1/2.3" sensor is a big difference. They are equivalent to f/11 and f/16 approx. 24mm and 26mm are equivalent to 134mm and 145mm. The differences aren't so big. GoPro goes for a wider fisheye effect while DJI for a much narrower rectilinear. Choose the linear mode on the GoPro and you have a similar field of view.

I don't mind you having your own opinion but the facts you're bringing to the tabel are extremely weak to make a case. DJI is not using any proprietary AF system, nor limited by sensor size or aperture. Instead it chose to put a 'tap to focus' system on the OP. Even with that I would be fine if they fix the pumping issues so at least I can tap on fricking infinity and keep it locked there.

What I've said is based on facts, not an opinion. You cannot have everything from 30cm (or 50cm) to infinity in focus using the lens and sensor combination in the OP.

f/2.0 and f/2.8 aren't the same. Those numbers make a difference to the calculation, as does the focal length.

I agree that an infinity function of sorts would be useful, but unlike the GoPro, close objects would not be in focus. This is presumably why DJI went to the expense of adding a proper AFC/AFS system into the camera. The GoPro doesn't need that because it uses a different lens.

fans259cfd13 Posted at 1-12 09:14
This camera is severely lacking an infinity focus option.
For most everyday shooting , I don't need to blur the background.
I can happily shoot video all day long on my gopro knowing everything will look in focus later on

yes, with the gopro it is easier, it is certainly all sharp