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Does focus pump in new firmware still exists?
1169 37 1-31 23:34
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MM MM
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Hello,
i plan to buy DJI OSMO POCKET, but i dont know focus pumping still exists in new firmware? I saw a lot videos with old firmware and I withheld the purchase.

And second question: can someone send me raw video file straight from camera in 4k 60p? Uncompressed, direct from camera. You can upload to dropbox/drive google. I wonder what is the quality without youtube compression.

Thanks
1-31 23:34
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hkphoto.com
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Does focus pump in new firmware still exists? = Yes
1-31 23:45
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DanielVieira
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Yes but is a lot better now!!
2-1 01:01
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MM MM
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Thanks!
Can someone send me raw video file straight from camera in 4k 60p? Uncompressed, direct from camera. You can upload to dropbox/drive google. I wonder what is the quality without youtube compression.
2-1 03:40
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Tide
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Focus pump used to be  serious when it happens.
It pulses couple of cycle at a time and pumping distance was very wide.
Also triggered by very small changes on the screen.

But now it happens much less and when happens pump for one cycle and the disance is closer.

I will send you some diract from camera footage by forum personal message.
Two 4K60P day time and one 4K30P night time.
2-1 03:52
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hallmark007
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I think you will always have some focus pumping, depending on conditions you shoot in, but there are ways around it and if I can tel you from my use it’s probaly 5% of the time in low light, there are many cameras that have same AF system and nothing different with them except they cost a heck of a lot more money.

If you are judging the performance by what people say on this forum, you will get a very jaundiced view and it will be skewed towards knocking this small camera.

It’s not perfect but neither are many cameras, this is a €350 camera with some great features , it shouldn’t be expected to replace a professional camera, you could compare it to other similar cameras on the market, but it’s probably unfair to judge it by just one part of the camera as there are many parts of this camera that you won’t get in much more expensive cameras.

If your looking at buying it, then consider if Focus pumping is a deal breaker for you, or is 4K 60fps in a small camera what you need , will you make good use from the great panoramas the time and motion lapses, the ease of use the small platform which is extremely unobtrusive nature of the camera, will the sealed battery be a problem, many things to think about, I can only tell you from my opinion this is one of the best video cameras in its category for the price, it has much to offer but not everything.
2-1 04:14
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drumm1n
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Still pumps and still a serious limitation.  At least AFS works as expected.

So as long you don’t want to do pull focus shots and are willing to edit out the pumps between focus points, everything else works A+.

Personally I take exception to all the fan boys who make excuses for the limitation of the contrast detection focus system. While technically true that this implementation is no worse than other, more expensive systems, for me it’s about fit for purpose. DJI designed and marketed this as a run and gun social media killer platform and currently it doesn’t  deliver on this promise. End of story and no excuses. I love/hate this Gimbly (as my wife affectionately calls it), am $1000 into it so will work around its limitations, but I generally can’t recommend it to the casual shooter who will be continuously frustrated and disappointed by focus performance.  
2-1 06:54
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hallmark007
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drumm1n Posted at 2-1 06:54
Still pumps and still a serious limitation.  At least AFS works as expected.

So as long you don’t want to do pull focus shots and are willing to edit out the pumps between focus points, everything else works A+.

$1000 into it what model did you get ?
2-1 07:28
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Vidfact
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DanielVieira Posted at 2-1 01:01
Yes but is a lot better now!!

If exist how that is better?...that is not a better or worst scenario, If is still there that is totally not acceptable..I m going in total depression...I send back my Osmo to Fix this issue and now it seams will be never fix.
2-5 11:54
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Vidfact
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hallmark007 Posted at 2-1 04:14
I think you will always have some focus pumping, depending on conditions you shoot in, but there are ways around it and if I can tel you from my use it’s probaly 5% of the time in low light, there are many cameras that have same AF system and nothing different with them except they cost a heck of a lot more money.

If you are judging the performance by what people say on this forum, you will get a very jaundiced view and it will be skewed towards knocking this small camera.

It seams like a Focus is a Big Deal on the Video Camera?...did I miss something?
2-5 11:59
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hallmark007
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Vidfact Posted at 2-5 11:59
It seams like a Focus is a Big Deal on the Video Camera?...did I miss something?

I think your looking for perfection and I don’t think your going to get it with this camera, no matter how much you whinge, your not going to get what you want.
A lot of people tried to explain this to you but you seem to prefer to whinge rather than cut your losses , but to get perfection you need to dig a little deeper , I’m not sure what you think you’ll achieve , it feels like you are trolling me, because I take a pragmatic view on the OP, I’m happy with it, I can work it for what suits me, you may not be able to achieve this , so you can keep ranting but maybe guide it to someone else.
2-5 12:09
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moognoosee
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Focus pumping is not deal breaker. The OP is too small for shallow DOF so even if camera is hunting for focus it's barely noticeable after a youtube compression.
The real deal breaker is that the focus sometimes is totally unreliable. Perfect conditions like sunny weather and lot of contrast doesn't guarantee  you a sharp in focus image.
This picture is made with latest firmware. And I have a lot of similar samples. AFC is just roulette for me.
But I still love this small camera even if it tries (sometimes with success) to destroy my footage.
2-5 14:07
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forbsie
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Yes it still happens, but is not as bad as in previous firmware versions. Hopefully they will continue to work on and improve focus problems.
2-5 14:36
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djiuser_36CdOEQUehX4
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forbsie Posted at 2-5 14:36
Yes it still happens, but is not as bad as in previous firmware versions. Hopefully they will continue to work on and improve focus problems.

I think it can be fixed with a firmware update. This is just a software thing because the hardware  is fast enough and the aperture is perfect for a fast af system. They just have to implement an improved algorithm.
2-5 16:12
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moognoosee
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Do you guys know on what distance OP is focusing by default in AFS mode? I mean what's the distance is set after turning camera on?
2-7 05:01
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zu1
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I think AF pumping will be resovled for the future update.
2-12 02:20
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El Diabolico
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Focus is better but not perfect. HOWEVER, I prefer to use AFS as on my M2P because the last thing I want is the camera trying to refocus and ruining my footage. AFS is quite reliable. Of course if you wish to track moving subjects in 4K / 60fps then you will need to rely on AFC and in good ligtht it is performing quite ok.
2-12 04:19
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Alberto V.
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I believe the solution is simple: DJI engineers must set the autofocus to infinity! As has happened with the Mavic Pro: same problem, same solution! I don't understand why they have yet done so! This is not a professional reflex with which you can "play" with the focus and the out of focus, the strength of this device is the simplicity and portability! This is the only and one necessary update! Come on DJI!
2-12 12:21
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zu1
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Alberto V. Posted at 2-12 12:21
I believe the solution is simple: DJI engineers must set the autofocus to infinity! As has happened with the Mavic Pro: same problem, same solution! I don't understand why they have yet done so! This is not a professional reflex with which you can "play" with the focus and the out of focus, the strength of this device is the simplicity and portability! This is the only and one necessary update! Come on DJI!

For drone, this plan will be perfect because the object is always at infinity. But pocket is different. If put the focus to infinity, you will see that the objects at 2m or 1.5m will not be sharp at all. We will provide an af-c that will be highest level at this world just like GH-5S.  We are the challengers.
Tuning camera on at AF-s mode will put the focus to INF. But the fix focus will not bring the video very sharp as mentioned above.

2-12 16:45
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zu1
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moognoosee Posted at 2-7 05:01
Do you guys know on what distance OP is focusing by default in AFS mode? I mean what's the distance is set after turning camera on?

It should be at INF. But sometime you maybe need one click to the sceen when taking a long video. So if you want to fix to INF, turning on at af-s maybe the solution.
2-12 17:29
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El Diabolico
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Alberto V. Posted at 2-12 12:21
I believe the solution is simple: DJI engineers must set the autofocus to infinity! As has happened with the Mavic Pro: same problem, same solution! I don't understand why they have yet done so! This is not a professional reflex with which you can "play" with the focus and the out of focus, the strength of this device is the simplicity and portability! This is the only and one necessary update! Come on DJI!

The Mavic Pro has no focus set to infinity, you have to tap to focus. I believe you mean Mavic Air...
2-13 02:27
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El Diabolico
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zu1 Posted at 2-12 16:45
For drone, this plan will be perfect because the object is always at infinity. But pocket is different. If put the focus to infinity, you will see that the objects at 2m or 1.5m will not be sharp at all. We will provide an af-c that will be highest level at this world just like GH-5S.  We are the challengers.
Tuning camera on at AF-s mode will put the focus to INF. But the fix focus will not bring the video very sharp as mentioned above.

Not true. You can set the focus to infinity and near objects will be relatively in focus. In any case, the camera on the OP cannot have foreground and background in perfect focus, it is a compromise. AFC also will work with objects close to the camera or with the background not both simultaneously.
2-13 02:31
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zu1
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El Diabolico Posted at 2-13 02:31
Not true. You can set the focus to infinity and near objects will be relatively in focus. In any case, the camera on the OP cannot have foreground and background in perfect focus, it is a compromise. AFC also will work with objects close to the camera or with the background not both simultaneously.

Yes, your point is right, focus is only one.But the objects at the center of video , or the face / tracking object should be in focus. That is the schema or the mission of AF-c.

If there are other propose, AF-s or AF-s fix to INF should be chosen.
2-13 03:50
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GranCanario
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GoPro has infinity focus - which means everything is sharp. Wanting the background blurred does simply need to have some sort of focus mechanism. Which is a desired feature on the osmo.

Well, it may be desired to have an option to set focus to infinity but forcing it would be no solution at all.

As we are talking about a passive autofocus without a dedicated sensor, the osmo simply HAS TO take defocus probes in order to find the correct focus by comparing contrast (this is what you see as pumping). There is no way around that, that's just how it works.

I would rather say, that the probing threshold/range is a bit too wide, which makes the pumping visible. Not sure if this is a mechanical or logical limitation
2-13 04:49
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edwardyyy
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1. to make use of the max. Depth of Field, we don't focus @ infinity, we focus @ Hyperfocal Distance.
2. d.o.f. is related to Circle of Confusion.
3. generally speaking, for lens of the OP, f/2 & 4.6mm, hyperfocal distance = 3.7m and d.o.f. = 1.85m to infinity.
4. this is good enough for Landscape Photography ONLY!!

P/S gopro 7,  f/2.8 & 3.37mm, hyperfocal distance = 1.41m and d.o.f. = 0.71m to infinity, good enough for general usage but Macro.
2-13 05:40
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WOLF Eagle
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GranCanario Posted at 2-13 04:49
GoPro has infinity focus - which means everything is sharp. Wanting the background blurred does simply need to have some sort of focus mechanism. Which is a desired feature on the osmo.

Well, it may be desired to have an option to set focus to infinity but forcing it would be no solution at all.

There are different approaches to get fast and accurate contrast af. If you google it you will find nice papers about contrast af. I think it should be possible to improve the speed and pumping by an improved  algorithm.
2-13 05:50
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NorthTexasAerials
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Mine still pumps some - not as much, but still noticeable in some situations.
2-13 08:39
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Kruzer1
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hallmark007 Posted at 2-1 04:14
I think you will always have some focus pumping, depending on conditions you shoot in, but there are ways around it and if I can tel you from my use it’s probaly 5% of the time in low light, there are many cameras that have same AF system and nothing different with them except they cost a heck of a lot more money.

If you are judging the performance by what people say on this forum, you will get a very jaundiced view and it will be skewed towards knocking this small camera.

iPhone does NOT have these focus hunting all over the place. They do re-focus but it's done so nicely that won't be noticed.

There is no reason for focus hunting/pumping as it is with many cameras. It's just laziness with the software department. Something they copied from elsewhere, maybe from Android ?
I never notice re-focus on the iPhone, but Android is the worst. Microsoft Phones did exactly the same... actually MS OWNS Android patents and Google pays them royalty. Did you know that?
2-13 09:01
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djiuser_36CdOEQUehX4 Posted at 2-5 16:12
I think it can be fixed with a firmware update. This is just a software thing because the hardware  is fast enough and the aperture is perfect for a fast af system. They just have to implement an improved algorithm.

You are correct !
It's software people lazy to fix this. Inherent  problem with Android anything.... not sure how DJI using parts of it.  Windows phones had much worse focus pumpin even if you didn't move the camera. Every two seconds is refocus.

Microsoft owns the patent on Android and Google pays MS for using it.
There is NO focus pumping on iOS ... nothing. iPhones re focus very gently and slow. If Apple can do it it's just lazy programmer with anything Android and Google.

I am not an Apple fan but I have four iPhones that I use to shoot video only. Also have OnePlus phones that is MUCH better with this issue. It's the APP maker who is not fixing the issue.  Some has fixed it and there is ZERO refocusing or focus pumping.
2-13 11:29
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zu1
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Kruzer1 Posted at 2-13 11:29
You are correct !
It's software people lazy to fix this. Inherent  problem with Android anything.... not sure how DJI using parts of it.  Windows phones had much worse focus pumpin even if you didn't move the camera. Every two seconds is refocus.

I should agree that iphone has do great job to ZERO refocusing after Iphone 7. And  ZERO refocusing should be provided by osmo pocket. We are not lazy.
2-13 17:30
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keyboardpilot
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DJI can't fix the focus pump by update firmware. Because Osmo Pocket is CDAF not PDAF.
2-13 19:02
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zu1
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keyboardpilot Posted at 2-13 19:02
DJI can't fix the focus pump by update firmware. Because Osmo Pocket is CDAF not PDAF.

Before PDAF, CDAF can also work well by lots of tuning. Maybe there are some suprise at the  next FW.

And I also should have to say that I hate the tuning work. It is horrible.
2-13 19:56
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suhaid
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moognoosee Posted at 2-5 14:07
Focus pumping is not deal breaker. The OP is too small for shallow DOF so even if camera is hunting for focus it's barely noticeable after a youtube compression.
The real deal breaker is that the focus sometimes is totally unreliable. Perfect conditions like sunny weather and lot of contrast doesn't guarantee  you a sharp in focus image.[view_image]
This picture is made with latest firmware. And I have a lot of similar samples. AFC is just roulette for me.

was this captured with AFS or AFC mode? thanks!
2-18 07:57
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Rocp
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Until the focus hunting issue is corrected, I would avoid this camera. Its a lot of $$$$$ for something with problems like this.
2-25 15:47
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GoPro King
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Regardless of what existing owners say, The focus hunt issue is a major flaw with the camera. Yeah you spent your $$$$$ and want to accept its a normal part of operations.......ITS NOT. I want one of these units, but to be honest...I dont feel comfortable shelling out the $$$$ for something with a major flaw. The audio quality is acceptable, but anyone on this forum saying that the focus hunting is not a problem and workable is kidding themselves

These companies, Go Pro inclusive seem to be pushing out tech that really isn't being tested enough ...and what make things worse is consumers are buying this crap and accepting it for what it is.

My advice: If you own one, return it and get your money back. Wait until they resolve it......if they don't then consider yourself an owner of an expensive faulty camera. If you are considering as am I, on purchasing an OP, HOLD OFF, I know you want one....but how happy will you be when your home/work videos have focus jumping around to the point where you regret the purchase.

Companies like this have to learn by reduced sales in order for them to accept they need to have better research, design and testing. Gopro, Apple are also guilty of such problems. Name one product that doesnt have faults out of the box, faults that later on tech support have to correct.

Either dji fixes in firmware, or the camera has hardware issues that pretty much classify it a complete loss.

YOU are a consumer and supporter of the brand, the BRAND has to support you by manufacturing products to a reliable standard.
2-26 16:29
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hallmark007
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GoPro King Posted at 2-26 16:29
Regardless of what existing owners say, The focus hunt issue is a major flaw with the camera. Yeah you spent your $$$$$ and want to accept its a normal part of operations.......ITS NOT. I want one of these units, but to be honest...I dont feel comfortable shelling out the $$$$ for something with a major flaw. The audio quality is acceptable, but anyone on this forum saying that the focus hunting is not a problem and workable is kidding themselves

These companies, Go Pro inclusive seem to be pushing out tech that really isn't being tested enough ...and what make things worse is consumers are buying this crap and accepting it for what it is.

It’s hard to work you out, you say no product doesn’t have problems out of the box, so don’t buy them on release or until they’re sorted, yet you have two craft on your avatar which have never been perfect yet you obviously purchased them with their warts and all, you say go pro have many problems yet you call yourself the go pro king, the irony of it.
As someone who has been through tech for many years and still buying, I don’t have one perfect product, I have many products that don’t do things the way I’d like them to do, so I have to work a little harder at my hobby to get things right.
I also have purchased many other items like cars washing machines fridges etc , I don’t think I ever bought perfection, but I have bought many products that I have enjoyed warts and all, and am I not entitled to do that, OP is one of those products I enjoy working with and I know many feel the same, because you are in business of finding perfection and obviously haven’t found it yet from what we see you own and how you talk about go pro, so what gives you the right without any experience to tell others Not to buy something you obviously know little about, and something they may enjoy warts and all.

Focus pumping is there yes but extremely small and can be seen almost always only in very high contrast filiming, but there is so much more to the OP that you will most likely never know or experience, because perfection for you is probaly unattainable, but the hypocrisy of it that you own two aircraft warts and all is what surprises me.

I have and do own many dji craft none of them are perfect, but with all of them I experience great things I can enjoy a good hobby and I can do all that now,no it not perfect, but it never will, but I would never tell others to not purchase when I’m getting such a kick out of all of this.

Try living a bit you might just enjoy it, life is not perfect and it never will and you will waste so much of your time thinking you will only be happy with perfection .
2-26 17:05
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GoPro King
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hallmark007 Posted at 2-26 17:05
It’s hard to work you out, you say no product doesn’t have problems out of the box, so don’t buy them on release or until they’re sorted, yet you have two craft on your avatar which have never been perfect yet you obviously purchased them with their warts and all, you say go pro have many problems yet you call yourself the go pro king, the irony of it.
As someone who has been through tech for many years and still buying, I don’t have one perfect product, I have many products that don’t do things the way I’d like them to do, so I have to work a little harder at my hobby to get things right.
I also have purchased many other items like cars washing machines fridges etc , I don’t think I ever bought perfection, but I have bought many products that I have enjoyed warts and all, and am I not entitled to do that, OP is one of those products I enjoy working with and I know many feel the same, because you are in business of finding perfection and obviously haven’t found it yet from what we see you own and how you talk about go pro, so what gives you the right without any experience to tell others Not to buy something you obviously know little about, and something they may enjoy warts and all.

My my.....what a gnarly post
2-26 18:19
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hallmark007
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GoPro King Posted at 2-26 18:19
My my.....what a gnarly post

But no answer I see, if mine was gnarly , then yours was just a bit more than jaundiced .
2-27 10:59
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