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M2P Waypoint 2.0 logarithmic (jerky) gimbal / drone movements
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EdisonW1979
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Hi all,

We've finally had some nice days of weather here where I am, so opted to go out and finally test Waypoints 2.0, and must admit, it has let me down, when I compare it against Litchi Waypoints with my old Mavic Air...

First off, not being able to program a mission offline (with the drone off), is a HUGE omission from DJI... I know some people who program missions with dozens of waypoints, with custom actions and behaviours at each waypoint, and can easily drain many % from a battery while programming the mission, which is inexcusable.

But to me, an even more important point, is how the M2P performs movement interpolation between each waypoint. It appears movement interpolation is performed logarithmically, in pre-programmed jumps, even in Arc mode with maximum curvature between waypoints, instead of a smooth, linear fashion.

Allow me to explain further... My intended use for Waypoints is to program cinematic movements that would otherwise be difficult to smoothly execute using manual controls, such as starting a shot with the drone yawed to the right and gimbal down to -30 degrees, whilst flying straight ahead, and having the drone gradually straighten out the yaw of attack and having the gimbal gradually raise up to 0 degrees by the time it reaches the next waypoint, to create a type of sweeping reveal shot. Yes it can be done manually, but being able to do this automatically using a Waypoint mission is a huge time saver.

With my old Mavic Air and Litchi, this was done in a linear fashion, and the results were sublime, generating completely smooth cinematic movements.

With the Mavic 2 Pro and Waypoints 2.0, the movement is jerky, and looks as if the drone is constantly hitting the proverbial gas pedal with a lead foot, leading to jerky footage. I believe it is the drone itself performing this logarithmic motion, as I can leave the gimal at 0 degrees, and just have the drone perform a simple right or left turn at 14km/h, and I can see the motion lurching.

I feel this is either a deficiency in the way DJI has implemented Waypoints 2.0 in the M2P's firmware, or a bug in the DJI GO 4 app and how it uploads the mission to the drone for execution.

We've started having snow here again so cannot test Waypoints in Litchi with the M2P, but that will be my next test, to see if the drone is actually capable of smooth, linear Waypoint movements, which if smooth, would leave me to believe it's a software issue with GO 4.

Sorry for the long-winded post, but I wanted to try and make myself clear with what I'm experiencing.

Has anyone else seen this sort of jerky movements using Waypoints 2.0 in Arc mode? I've seen a few sample flight videos post here that also seem to be jerky...

Cheers
2-10 14:08
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AlphaFlightNW
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Cant say I have had the chance to try waypoints yet but will test in the next few days. Currently slammed by multiple snowstorms.
2-10 15:16
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Bitesteel
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Yes, I flew a path of 4 waypoints, in a square with arc mode set. Poi was set on an object outside the square. At each waypoint there is a distinct correction of camera and orientation rather than a nice sinusoidal ease in / ease out.
2-10 15:21
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AlphaFlightNW
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Bitesteel Posted at 2-10 15:21
Yes, I flew a path of 4 waypoints, in a square with arc mode set. Poi was set on an object outside the square. At each waypoint there is a distinct correction of camera and orientation rather than a nice sinusoidal ease in / ease out.

yikes, so it would just kinda jerk to where the poi was rather than track?
2-10 17:21
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EdisonW1979
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So I managed to pull the Waypoints 2.0 mission video I did yesterday with DJI GO 4 to show what I mean...

This is a simple 8-point Arc-mode mission @ 14km/h, in a circular pattern making clockwise turns, in interpolate mode, and some gimbal pitch adjustments taking place. You'll see very clearly the speed variances and jerky yaw movements during this mission:

https://mega.nz/#!3VQlGIQK!fgOYP ... IaaCu-ia6xWt054AH7s
Now the next one I just finished, even though it was snowing (hey, M2P is rated for -10c, so figured might as well give it a try), is a 15-point Litchi Waypoint mission, automatic heading management, maximum flight path curvature between waypoints, at a cruising speed of 20km/h. This time I didn't program a POI, and just made some gimbal pitch adjustments along the flight path heading.

https://mega.nz/#!zYAR3QBY!K_hNV1cDiGx9GvMCLNvShBQhumAObAvcQCujcqax8KU

Notice how much smoother this footage is?? Only time you see some rough movement is during gimbal pitch adjustments up and down in the second half the video. Seems Litchi doesn't apply a proper amount of motion feathering during gimbal pitch adjustments to smooth out the motion.

In any case, this is what I experience. The fact I could program the Litchi mission offline was a godsend, which makes the DJI implementation feel unfinished.
2-10 18:18
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EdisonW1979
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AlphaFlightNW Posted at 2-10 17:21
yikes, so it would just kinda jerk to where the poi was rather than track?

Just to answer that myself, yes this is what I experienced doing a POI Arc flight; couldn't get any smooth motion out of it. Even a non-POI flight, just on an Arc flight path, the motions were still not smooth.
2-10 18:19
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EdisonW1979 Posted at 2-10 18:18
So I managed to pull the Waypoints 2.0 mission video I did yesterday with DJI GO 4 to show what I mean...

This is a simple 8-point Arc-mode mission @ 14km/h, in a circular pattern making clockwise turns, in interpolate mode, and some gimbal pitch adjustments taking place. You'll see very clearly the speed variances and jerky yaw movements during this mission:

All correct, and, so far it is quite frustrating. Even more with the fact that with new smart controller dji enforced new api that prevents litchi from connection to the radio. To take out 3rd party app without giving any adequate replacement is not very helpful. Dunno, when i flew new waypoints routine it felt like it was never tested by dji. Felt raw and unrefined.
2-10 18:53
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EdisonW1979
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Paul Atkin Posted at 2-10 18:53
All correct, and, so far it is quite frustrating. Even more with the fact that with new smart controller dji enforced new api that prevents litchi from connection to the radio. To take out 3rd party app without giving any adequate replacement is not very helpful. Dunno, when i flew new waypoints routine it felt like it was never tested by dji. Felt raw and unrefined.

See, I was actually considering the SC, but what you just said, that they lock out 3rd-party apps, which actually use their own SDK, is an asinine decision, which just made me say forget it. I was already on the fence with the SC being an Android device, now I’m quite content to sticking with my iOS devices to control my M2P.

That’s the other thing that has me scratching my head... Litchi is built upon DJI’s own SDK, so it’s not like GO 4 doesn’t have access to the same SDK that allows Litchi to do what it does... Why is it so hard for DJI to implement these same functions properly in their own app??

Boggles my mind...
2-10 19:16
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EnricoBrun
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you are brave to fly with that snow! ... you have not yet tried to take some photos with little light (waypoint mode), look here what ugliness
2615BF0D-A66F-49CF-9C17-CADA14D19FA2.jpeg
E11101C3-20B6-4619-9B88-680C85DBF379.jpeg
2-10 22:33
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EdisonW1979
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EnricoBrun Posted at 2-10 22:33
you are brave to fly with that snow! ... you have not yet tried to take some photos with little light (waypoint mode), look here what ugliness

Oh man, that's BAD! Looks like the drone doesn't give enough time to expose the shot at slow shutter speeds before it tries moving again! Or maybe it starts taking the photo before it comes to a stop at that waypoint!

In either case, DJI needs to fix this... It's a shame, as they were on a bit of a positive roll, and now seem to have gone back to the "shove it out whatever the state is" mentality of putting out updates and new features being only half-baked...
2-11 09:42
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Paul Atkin Posted at 2-10 18:53
All correct, and, so far it is quite frustrating. Even more with the fact that with new smart controller dji enforced new api that prevents litchi from connection to the radio. To take out 3rd party app without giving any adequate replacement is not very helpful. Dunno, when i flew new waypoints routine it felt like it was never tested by dji. Felt raw and unrefined.

Dunno, when i flew new waypoints routine it felt like it was never tested by dji.

DJI's customers are the Testers!!!

2-11 10:38
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EdisonW1979 Posted at 2-10 19:16
See, I was actually considering the SC, but what you just said, that they lock out 3rd-party apps, which actually use their own SDK, is an asinine decision, which just made me say forget it. I was already on the fence with the SC being an Android device, now I’m quite content to sticking with my iOS devices to control my M2P.

That’s the other thing that has me scratching my head... Litchi is built upon DJI’s own SDK, so it’s not like GO 4 doesn’t have access to the same SDK that allows Litchi to do what it does... Why is it so hard for DJI to implement these same functions properly in their own app??

Why is it so hard for DJI to implement these same functions properly in their own app??

Been asking myself same thing over DJI's Assistant and DJI's GO-4.  Like there are two different companies.  One does hardware and one does software.  

My mistake, three.  Other one does Marketing.  Forgetting to inform other two of features required.

2-11 10:43
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EdisonW1979 Posted at 2-10 18:18
So I managed to pull the Waypoints 2.0 mission video I did yesterday with DJI GO 4 to show what I mean...

This is a simple 8-point Arc-mode mission @ 14km/h, in a circular pattern making clockwise turns, in interpolate mode, and some gimbal pitch adjustments taking place. You'll see very clearly the speed variances and jerky yaw movements during this mission:

Watched Waypoints 2.0 mission video.  All herky jerky.  Seen humans do better.
Something is wrong with Waypoints.   
2-11 10:49
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Oracle Miata
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This is an issue with the M2P itself, not Waypoints 2.0.  The M2P performs with the same jerky movements while using Litchi.  Those of us that have been using Litchi for awhile with the M2P were hoping the issue would be corrected by DJI in GO4.  Litchi has been saying it was in DJI’s SDK for quite a while now...
2-11 11:26
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Oracle Miata Posted at 2-11 11:26
This is an issue with the M2P itself, not Waypoints 2.0.  The M2P performs with the same jerky movements while using Litchi.  Those of us that have been using Litchi for awhile with the M2P were hoping the issue would be corrected by DJI in GO4.  Litchi has been saying it was in DJI’s SDK for quite a while now...

I agree I have abandoned using M2 with litchi , there is a huge difference using litchi with Mavic Pro. Or Air and P4Pro, I believe problem lies between litchi dji and M2 I never thought W2 would be any better than litchi, but it does need some ironing out .
2-11 11:41
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EdisonW1979
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Oracle Miata Posted at 2-11 11:26
This is an issue with the M2P itself, not Waypoints 2.0.  The M2P performs with the same jerky movements while using Litchi.  Those of us that have been using Litchi for awhile with the M2P were hoping the issue would be corrected by DJI in GO4.  Litchi has been saying it was in DJI’s SDK for quite a while now...

Oracle,

Please refer to my Litchi Waypoint mission video in this link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dwy5io7zulbptbi/DJI_0128.MOV?dl=0

It is SUBSTANTIALLY smoother than a Waypoint 2.0 GO 4 mission of comparable waypoint counts and type.

So I would beg to disagree in that Litchi is just as bad as GO 4, Litchi Waypoint missions are perfectly usable in comparison to GO 4...
2-11 12:17
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EdisonW1979
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HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2-11 10:49
Watched Waypoints 2.0 mission video.  All herky jerky.  Seen humans do better.
Something is wrong with Waypoints.

Agreed... The way DJI implemented WP 2.0 is not good, and obviously was never properly tested.

I'm actually torn between what I want more, smooth linear movements during flight, or the ability to create missions off-line.

Now if DJI really stepped up their game and introduced a web-based interface for creating DJI WP missions using their DJI account and uploading to the app, like Litchi does, that will be a home-run!
2-11 12:22
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Oracle Miata
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EdisonW1979 Posted at 2-11 12:17
Oracle,

Please refer to my Litchi Waypoint mission video in this link:

I agree that is way smoother, but those are not the results I have gotten using Litchi and the M2P.  All of my other DJI’s are that smooth, with the exception of the Spark while using Litchi.  
2-11 14:27
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EdisonW1979
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Oracle Miata Posted at 2-11 14:27
I agree that is way smoother, but those are not the results I have gotten using Litchi and the M2P.  All of my other DJI’s are that smooth, with the exception of the Spark while using Litchi.

It's curious you're not getting results like that using Litchi, cause that mission was shot on a M2P, in adverse weather no less, so I'd assume you should be able to obtain similar results since we're talking about the same model drone...
2-11 15:10
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Oracle Miata
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EdisonW1979 Posted at 2-11 15:10
It's curious you're not getting results like that using Litchi, cause that mission was shot on a M2P, in adverse weather no less, so I'd assume you should be able to obtain similar results since we're talking about the same model drone...
Seeing your footage has given me hope.  Which version are you using?   Currently I am on 2.6.5
2-11 15:43
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EdisonW1979
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Oracle Miata Posted at 2-11 15:43
Seeing your footage has given me hope.  Which version are you using?   Currently I am on 2.6.5

2.6.5? On iOS, latest is 2.6.4, which is what I ran when I filmed that mission...

And here is the mission outline in Litchi Mission Hub:

Screen Shot 2019-02-11 at 3.35.01 PM copy.jpg
2-11 15:48
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rm708410
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I haven't tried Waypoints yet, but did have the issue with Litchi missions. I'd bet cleaning up this issue is on the to do list for DJI now that they have Waypoints 2.0 out there. It's likely both scenarios are related to the same code.
2-11 16:08
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EdisonW1979 Posted at 2-11 15:48
2.6.5? On iOS, latest is 2.6.4, which is what I ran when I filmed that mission...

And here is the mission outline in Litchi Mission Hub:

Look on Positive side.  Even though it was a rough-around-edges flight, your drone didn't do a Fly-Away!  
2-11 16:14
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EdisonW1979
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HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2-11 16:14
Look on Positive side.  Even though it was a rough-around-edges flight, your drone didn't do a Fly-Away!

Oh god *knocks on wood* DON'T JYNX IT!!!
2-11 16:16
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Oracle Miata
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EdisonW1979 Posted at 2-11 15:48
2.6.5? On iOS, latest is 2.6.4, which is what I ran when I filmed that mission...

And here is the mission outline in Litchi Mission Hub:
[Image]

Forgot to mention, I am a beta tester.
2-11 16:34
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4F1C1DFF-F410-4722-981B-803B77EC1EFF.png
2-11 16:36
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EdisonW1979
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rm708410 Posted at 2-11 16:08
I haven't tried Waypoints yet, but did have the issue with Litchi missions. I'd bet cleaning up this issue is on the to do list for DJI now that they have Waypoints 2.0 out there. It's likely both scenarios are related to the same code.

Actually, looking at the Litchi FAQ, it seems they implement the same Gimbal pitch control system that DJI does in Waypoints 2.0, in that it's the Litchi app that directly controls the gimbal, and it's pitch adjustments don't get uploaded to the drone as part of the mission:

From the Litchi FAQ:

Litchi can control the gimbal pitch automatically during the mission, as long as the aircraft is within range of the remote controller.

So as long as the AC doesn't lose signal, I can just worry about having the drone fly the course smoothly, and perform gimbal adjustments manually, to get maximum smoothness...
2-11 16:37
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EdisonW1979
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Oracle Miata Posted at 2-11 16:34
Forgot to mention, I am a beta tester.

Ah, that would explain it
2-11 18:49
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Tried new dji waypoint 2.0 and it was a terrible experience... i agree with all the above posts. (jerky change of directions, drone has to be conected to program missions, slow response on smart controller, etc..)
I have been using Litchi for many years now and really cannot be compared.
Why doenst dji buy litchi allready, and get on with it!
2-11 21:32
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spycorfu Posted at 2-11 21:32
Tried new dji waypoint 2.0 and it was a terrible experience... i agree with all the above posts. (jerky change of directions, drone has to be conected to program missions, slow response on smart controller, etc..)
I have been using Litchi for many years now and really cannot be compared.
Why doenst dji buy litchi allready, and get on with it!

Why doesn't DJI work with Litchi?  It only benefits DJI to make their drones easier to use.
2-11 21:58
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EdisonW1979 Posted at 2-11 16:37
Actually, looking at the Litchi FAQ, it seems they implement the same Gimbal pitch control system that DJI does in Waypoints 2.0, in that it's the Litchi app that directly controls the gimbal, and it's pitch adjustments don't get uploaded to the drone as part of the mission:

From the Litchi FAQ:

It's the heading/yaw/rotation that is jumping abruptly, not the pitch. The pitch appears to work. I'm assuming that the rotation/yaw between waypoints is interpolated on the fly within the aircraft firmware or the SDK inserts interpolated points between two waypoints and currently there seems to be a bug in one or the other. I'm really just guessing here. For one test mission, some paths yaw smoothly and some jump. So it is inconsistent. I also did a test of a two point, zero speed mission with Litchi (cable cam) and it made the same bad moves regardless of the speed I flew back and forth along the path.
2-12 01:45
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EdisonW1979
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rm708410 Posted at 2-12 01:45
It's the heading/yaw/rotation that is jumping abruptly, not the pitch. The pitch appears to work. I'm assuming that the rotation/yaw between waypoints is interpolated on the fly within the aircraft firmware or the SDK inserts interpolated points between two waypoints and currently there seems to be a bug in one or the other. I'm really just guessing here. For one test mission, some paths yaw smoothly and some jump. So it is inconsistent. I also did a test of a two point, zero speed mission with Litchi (cable cam) and it made the same bad moves regardless of the speed I flew back and forth along the path.

See, that was another test I was going to perform, as a logical use of waypoints is to create cable cam moves automatically, so your test has saved me the hassle and disappointment of doing it myself.

I remember being able to perform these waypoints in Litchi using my Mavic Air with buttery smooth motions, so it's very disconcerting that DJI's flagship consumer, or pro-sumer, drone would have this kind of problem.

Oh well, guess I shouldn't expect as much from DJI...
2-12 11:49
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EdisonW1979
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So I went out to do a little more Waypoints 2.0 testing in between snow falls, and made an interesting little discovery...

In GO 4, when you plan a WP 2.0 Arc mission, with maximum curvature between points and no POI’s, and set the mission cruising speed to the default 14.4KM/h, the yaw movements of the drone are SILKY smooth, with proper linear motion, and even speed feathering of the motion when the attack angle of the arch increases or decreases, thus creating a nice smooth transition speed!

I was able to maintain this smooth motion up to almost 20KM/h, but anything higher than that (I usually fly WP missions at 28KM/h), the motion becomes choppy.

So it would seem, that as long as you keep the WP 2.0 mission at the default speed, the drone can produce smooth yaw movements, and only when exceeding 20KM/h does it become an issue. This is truly bizarre as WP’s can be flown at much higher speeds. So basically we can get smooth WP’s out of the M2P, so long as we do it slowly?

This is even more of a bug!
2-12 19:43
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I'm going to try to remain positive and, now that the larger feature updates have come out, we'll likely see more refinement work in future updates. It will hopefully be fixed, and resolve both Go4 and Litchi (SDK) at the same time. I look forward to the tweaks to core features that may happen this year.
2-13 19:26
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EdisonW1979
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rm708410 Posted at 2-13 19:26
I'm going to try to remain positive and, now that the larger feature updates have come out, we'll likely see more refinement work in future updates. It will hopefully be fixed, and resolve both Go4 and Litchi (SDK) at the same time. I look forward to the tweaks to core features that may happen this year.

This is my hope as well, but given DJI's track record, I'm keeping my expectations low...
2-14 11:27
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parkgt214
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After having flown a 3DR Solo for several years the Cable Cam of both Litchi and GO4 with the MP2 is very disappointing.

Yet to see any DJI bird with any software offer that degree of smoothness.  The ramping in and out of transitions in pitch and yaw are flawless with the Solo.

This what they should be able to do as far as smoothness.



Interesting that no moderators have commented.
2-14 16:17
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parkgt214 Posted at 2-14 16:17
After having flown a 3DR Solo for several years the Cable Cam of both Litchi and GO4 with the MP2 is very disappointing.

Yet to see any DJI bird with any software offer that degree of smoothness.  The ramping in and out of transitions in pitch and yaw are flawless with the Solo.

Litchi on P4Pro or even MavAir works just as well as your video. So I’m sure improvements should be possible .
2-14 16:46
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hallmark007 Posted at 2-14 16:46
Litchi on P4Pro or even MavAir works just as well as your video. So I’m sure improvements should be possible .

Please provide a link to a video that shows transitions that smooth; I have yet to see one.
2-14 19:30
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parkgt214 Posted at 2-14 19:30
Please provide a link to a video that shows transitions that smooth; I have yet to see one.

Just go to you tube plenty on there, also you will see plenty on litchi web . Your video is pretty good .
2-15 01:15
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hallmark007 Posted at 2-15 01:15
Just go to you tube plenty on there, also you will see plenty on litchi web . Your video is pretty good .

I have looked at many hundreds over the last several years and haven't found one as smooth.; that is why I asked.   Have yet to have anyone point one out either.

It would be nice if DJI would at least fix the MP2 to be as smooth as the earlier models.
2-15 07:08
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