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IMU vibration (cold bug) is back? (update: VPS)
239 20 2-10 21:40
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HereForTheBeer
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EDIT: i have come up with theory is it is infact not IMU or a cold bug, but rather VPS glitch related to limited light conditions and featurless snow...potentially visial noise on bottom facing camera triggerign some false posiitive compensations in return looked like viberations.. this also explains why difficult to reproduce, lack of a clear pattern to what is causing it,..  
here are my reasoning:

1. happened mostly last night, were it was dark not too dark..

2. over mostly featureless snow.

3. lighting was sh*t so maybe camera facing down was trying to compensate seeing patterns on and off..including maybe visual noise..

4. couldn't get it to happen again during the daylight..

5. very intermittent... and difficult to repeat.

6. only pattern i can come up with is happened as the lighting got more difficult.. cold temperature and letting it warm up...may have been a coincidence.. as would be gimbals glitches.. may be own separate issue/bug

7. calibrated it on my laptop before..a while ago.. my laptop has glass touchscreen, it is laminated IPS LCD..but still reflective and only 13 inches..so  maybe it messed with calibration?

8. pulsating/viberations i would guess is ~30hz-60Hz pattern..  that fits within possibility it maybe camera..



been flying in the cold with my mav-air for a while... today/tonight actually was far from the coldest day i flown on just below freezing, were as i flow a couple times in -15F without issue.
my mav-air has been kept warm all day until i took it out,  however my mavic air on take off started exhibiting the classic IMU viberation that mavic air had at initial launch of the product when testers flew it in the cold..    i landed it, took off again and viberation seem to gone away then i flew off a bit, and it sounded like it started viberating again so brought it back and sure enough it was..  so i calibrated the IMU inside on workbench which is level.. took off and seems to been fixed for entire life of battery #1.. but switched to battery #2 and it came back... to verify if maybe IMU thermal issue i took my back into my car with heat on full, left it powered on in my seat for 5 minutes until internal fan was ripping full speed on my mavic air, took it out again in the light snow fall took off, no viberation at all...lasted that was rest of the flight and a couple batteries..


i find this odd because seems that it was fixed, but for me its potentially back?   has anyone else experianced this more recently?






2-10 21:40
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AlphaFlightNW
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Well, its not related to this aircraft, but my M2Z has freaked out about 30 °F weather before and said that the gimbal and other components had failed, then miracously started working once I brought it back inside. Honestly, it might just be too cold for it, becuase I have never had issue launching in sub celsius temperatures and unfortunately cant really get any colder to the temps your operating at in my area.
2-10 22:31
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HereForTheBeer
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AlphaFlightNW Posted at 2-10 22:31
Well, its not related to this aircraft, but my M2Z has freaked out about 30 °F weather before and said that the gimbal and other components had failed, then miracously started working once I brought it back inside. Honestly, it might just be too cold for it, becuase I have never had issue launching in sub celsius temperatures and unfortunately cant really get any colder to the temps your operating at in my area.

sounds like DJI needs to tune/reoptimize a bit.. give more IMU/component warmup time i guess?
2-10 22:52
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AlphaFlightNW
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HereForTheBeer Posted at 2-10 22:52
sounds like DJI needs to tune/reoptimize a bit.. give more IMU/component warmup time i guess?

Possibly. Also, when you are flying in those temperatures, are you straight out of the house and flying or are the components acclimated first? I just had this thought since I forgot to mention that my woes about the M2Z in cold weather was due to me screwing around outside for longer periods of time before power on.
2-10 23:31
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HereForTheBeer
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AlphaFlightNW Posted at 2-10 23:31
Possibly. Also, when you are flying in those temperatures, are you straight out of the house and flying or are the components acclimated first? I just had this thought since I forgot to mention that my woes about the M2Z in cold weather was due to me screwing around outside for longer periods of time before power on.

not sure i need to let it acclimate i feel like if i did that it may actually make it worse if its really cold it may take much longer after startup to even out....

the -15F day i flew, i flew 4 batteries...so very well thermally saturated..  zero issues, no vibrations, no issues with stability or not even shorter runtime gimbal didn't even get upset... it was also snowing then too.    and so cold the arms of the drone didn't wanna fold very easily, the grease in the bearings has frozen..  however tonight, like 25F or something, light snow... IMU is like NOPE...  

dji could fix this, monitoring temp at startup, then putting warning in App says "IMU warming up"..i guess depending where the temp sensors are all located, could spin the fan up detect the temps on intake and make adjustments... but assuming have intake sensor.   otherwise it have to read temps elsewhere and on IMU and make adjustments from there.  


as for gimbal errors, i had a few... again it was cold but was also snowy and little breezy so i chalked it up to maybe snow or ice finding its way in and confusing it.. but now you said your Mavic 2 had gimbal issues with the cold... i wonder if its same issue?  mine also self resolved the more i flew the better it got like as it warmed up...however in the stupid cold like -15F..it didn't have issues.. gimbal or IMU vibration...so..i am confused...consistency issues with software detecting things..?
2-11 00:24
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HedgeTrimmer
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Sounds like a component in IMU or circuit board foil run between components that is sensitive to temperature changes.
2-11 01:00
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Tomcatuk
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DJI cover there backside "Operating Temperature Range        0°C - 40°C" no minus temps....
2-11 01:17
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hallmark007
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HereForTheBeer Posted at 2-11 00:24
not sure i need to let it acclimate i feel like if i did that it may actually make it worse if its really cold it may take much longer after startup to even out....

the -15F day i flew, i flew 4 batteries...so very well thermally saturated..  zero issues, no vibrations, no issues with stability or not even shorter runtime gimbal didn't even get upset... it was also snowing then too.    and so cold the arms of the drone didn't wanna fold very easily, the grease in the bearings has frozen..  however tonight, like 25F or something, light snow... IMU is like NOPE...  

Dji have fixed this they did in .200 FW and I haven’t seen any reports of this since, I have flown my MavAir in very low temps without any problems, when this was happening there were many videos posted, all these videos showed identical movements, it was not a problem with IMU what you could see was IMU trying to counteract this movement to try get aircrafts correct attitude.
I think you should post a video of this happening, if this is what it is it will be there on all start ups not intermittently or coming and going, so shouldn’t be difficult to video it.
2-11 11:59
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HereForTheBeer
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hallmark007 Posted at 2-11 11:59
Dji have fixed this they did in .200 FW and I haven’t seen any reports of this since, I have flown my MavAir in very low temps without any problems, when this was happening there were many videos posted, all these videos showed identical movements, it was not a problem with IMU what you could see was IMU trying to counteract this movement to try get aircrafts correct attitude.
I think you should post a video of this happening, if this is what it is it will be there on all start ups not intermittently or coming and going, so shouldn’t be difficult to video it.

if it isn't IMU what is it...?   VPS is my only other guess considering conditions...   but it does exactly what every other video of it vibrating shows... it actually holds a good position lock, is seemingly equally responsive to inputs just vibrating...   


also been flying it alot today to get fresh air and explore with my drone.   snowy out, snow on ground, 30-34F out...seems fine only no issues..  so VPS maybe?  ill have to take it out again tonight when lighting maybe confusing for it and see?

2-11 12:47
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Flycaster
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I'm guessing maybe actual condensation inside....
2-11 12:54
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hallmark007
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HereForTheBeer Posted at 2-11 12:47
if it isn't IMU what is it...?   VPS is my only other guess considering conditions...   but it does exactly what every other video of it vibrating shows... it actually holds a good position lock, is seemingly equally responsive to inputs just vibrating...   

If it was the same problem as in .100 then it would be there every time you launch, if not then you have another problem, take some video and post it here.
2-11 13:04
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HereForTheBeer
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hallmark007 Posted at 2-11 13:04
If it was the same problem as in .100 then it would be there every time you launch, if not then you have another problem, take some video and post it here.

i could post any video of it happening from YT and its exactly that...only differance is not single time and is more rare oddity seems to have little pattern as to why.. like i was flying today, no issues.. yesterday/last night was vibrating.. flew it in stupid cold -15F, it didn't care...


start video at 4:00...litterally this....  imagine snowy and colder
2-11 13:11
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HereForTheBeer
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Flycaster Posted at 2-11 12:54
I'm guessing maybe actual condensation inside....

possible....
2-11 13:14
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hallmark007
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HereForTheBeer Posted at 2-11 13:11
i could post any video of it happening from YT and its exactly that...only differance is not single time and is more rare oddity seems to have little pattern as to why.. like i was flying today, no issues.. yesterday/last night was vibrating.. flew it in stupid cold -15F, it didn't care...
https://youtu.be/RCi-L-DE5-I?t=239

Well I read your posts over the last few weeks and you seem to be having every problem that has been reported with MavAir, you are the first I’ve read about that has all the problems where as most who have had these problems may have had one of them, but in your case you have them all, I think in order to put your craft right you need to set up a case and send your craft in.

Posting someone’s else’s problem from .100 FW which was completely cleared up with .200 , except for one person and that’s you a long with all the other problems your having, you posted almost 20 problems you were having with your MavAir and it seems like you have a new one on top of this everyday, it doesn’t make any common sense to keep flying a drone that has all these problems, you also have not shown any logs videos or any other proof of these occurrences, and I’m not saying you should or shouldn’t, but showing someone else’s problems makes no difference to your craft.
No FW is going to be released to cover your over 20 problems and counting, so it’s diffic when you keep complaining about all these problems but never do anything to get them resolved, and I can tell you No FW will fix what you have, but you still have your warranty and if it was me that’s what I would be using.
2-11 13:41
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HereForTheBeer
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hallmark007 Posted at 2-11 13:41
Well I read your posts over the last few weeks and you seem to be having every problem that has been reported with MavAir, you are the first I’ve read about that has all the problems where as most who have had these problems may have had one of them, but in your case you have them all, I think in order to put your craft right you need to set up a case and send your craft in.

Posting someone’s else’s problem from .100 FW which was completely cleared up with .200 , except for one person and that’s you a long with all the other problems your having, you posted almost 20 problems you were having with your MavAir and it seems like you have a new one on top of this everyday, it doesn’t make any common sense to keep flying a drone that has all these problems, you also have not shown any logs videos or any other proof of these occurrences, and I’m not saying you should or shouldn’t, but showing someone else’s problems makes no difference to your craft.

This thread is asking if others have encountered said bug...  maybe it comes as a surprise to you, but I’m asking others what’s going on and have they seen this happen recently with them not pointing my fingers (yet atleast) I figured it was resolved issue and it’s strange how the occurrence came about for me as doesn’t follow a logical pattern and is intermittent.   I don’t even know if it’s a cold bug or related to thermals, imu, VPS or what.  I’m going on what other people have mentioned it was.  

Also someone mention gimbal was little out of sorts onetime..had that issue too maybe something else, we seen a few people posting wakey gimbals recently, such as skeeter and Roy post wakey gimbals as well.  

Also this I one of those cases where a video really isn’t going to offer much than any of the 100s of existing videos demoing this issue pre .200 update. 100% litterally that when it happened.   Also Intermittent issue for me so eh.. hasn’t happened today.. idk when it will if it will again.  
2-11 14:28
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Boffin
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One problem of flying in extreme cold may be that the plastic and rubber components might becoming harder and less flexible due to the cold.
This could affect the props (become more stiffer and brittle) and also the anti-vibration mounts for such items as the IMU (I presume that it has them).

On the upside, one might also hope that as the internal operating temperature rises this may warm these components until they function as designed.
After all, the battery warms up during use and the 'self heating' option takes advantage of this.

As already noted, condensation could be another issue if moving from a warm to a cold place.

Just a few thoughts
2-11 14:30
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hallmark007
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HereForTheBeer Posted at 2-11 14:28
This thread is asking if others have encountered said bug...  maybe it comes as a surprise to you, but I’m asking others what’s going on and have they seen this happen recently with them not pointing my fingers (yet atleast) I figured it was resolved issue and it’s strange how the occurrence came about for me as doesn’t follow a logical pattern and is intermittent.   I don’t even know if it’s a cold bug or related to thermals, imu, VPS or what.  I’m going on what other people have mentioned it was.  

Also someone mention gimbal was little out of sorts onetime..had that issue too maybe something else, we seen a few people posting wakey gimbals recently, such as skeeter and Roy post wakey gimbals as well.  

Well I think the thread will tell you almost 100% that it isn’t a problem anymore, this still does not answer the question that you have so many problems more than 20 and now this one why you actually don’t do something about it.
Lastly if you think it’s pointless putting up proof , why then post video below which had a problem that is no longer there.
2-11 14:36
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HereForTheBeer
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Boffin Posted at 2-11 14:30
One problem of flying in extreme cold may be that the plastic and rubber components might becoming harder and less flexible due to the cold.
This could affect the props (become more stiffer and brittle) and also the anti-vibration mounts for such items as the IMU (I presume that it has them).

Good points, the IMU is usually shock mounted, I don’t know if it is on the Mavic air, I would assume so though.  However only makes more sense if I left my drone out in the cold first then started flying.. not from warm environment like I been doing..  warm enviromate means mounts should be more compliment..  

Condensation is a possibility... harder to test without leaving it in the cold powers off for a while...may expose it to first first possibility your mentioned of where things gotten stuff in the cold like IMU shock mount.  So isolating that would be difficult.  

2-11 14:36
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HereForTheBeer
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hallmark007 Posted at 2-11 14:36
Well I think the thread will tell you almost 100% that it isn’t a problem anymore, this still does not answer the question that you have so many problems more than 20 and now this one why you actually don’t do something about it.
Lastly if you think it’s pointless putting up proof , why then post video below which had a problem that is no longer there.

First of all entirely separately topic.  Some of my 20+ complaints are not faults but rather they are desires for better user experiences and not being an ignored subset of the community the moment a new drone launches from DJI... maybe my expections are exceed yours.. I paid full retail price for my mavic air kit, $1000 (not including taxes), I feel like it is incomplete experiance and that DJI just doesn’t care... I said it before, I love my mavic air, it is a solid platform... but incomplete as proven but multiple 3rd party apps such as Litchi, it is a wildly capable product that’ DJI has walked away from..

This thread hasn’t been pointless either, helpful to pointing me in a direction without pointing fingers.. two users mentioned possibly condensation or shock mounts are hard or something like that.. could explain it.. specially fact that seems intermittent and slightly illogic in pattern.   also someone mentioned a possible gimbal glitch related to tempatures... to.. and we seen a few threads where gimbal glitches happens recently... so who know... worth making a thread..

2-11 14:51
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HereForTheBeer Posted at 2-11 14:36
Good points, the IMU is usually shock mounted, I don’t know if it is on the Mavic air, I would assume so though.  However only makes more sense if I left my drone out in the cold first then started flying.. not from warm environment like I been doing..  warm enviromate means mounts should be more compliment..  

Condensation is a possibility... harder to test without leaving it in the cold powers off for a while...may expose it to first first possibility your mentioned of where things gotten stuff in the cold like IMU shock mount.  So isolating that would be difficult.
Condensation is a possibility... harder to test without leaving it in the cold powers off for a while

House drone in dry air using uncooked rice or descant bags.  Another way is to keep drone in sealed container that has been purged of air with pure gas like nitrogen.
When drone cools off outside, there should not be any moisture inside drone to condense out.

Coming in, from cold outside, will have reverse problem.  Drone is cold and air inside is warm and moist.  Have to put drone inside dry housing outside while it is still cold.  Letting drone warm up in dry air.
Had more than my share of experience with water vapor involving Big Iron and water vapor (dew-point / humidity).  
2-11 15:49
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HereForTheBeer
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HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2-11 15:49
Condensation is a possibility... harder to test without leaving it in the cold powers off for a while

House drone in dry air using uncooked rice or descant bags.  Another way is to keep drone in sealed container that has been purged of air with pure gas like nitrogen.

i did some critical thinking while getting slightly buzzed drinking.    i come up with theory it has to be VPS.  

here is my reasoning:

1. happened mostly last night, were it was dark not too dark..

2. over mostly featureless snow.

3. lighting was sh*t so maybe camera facing down was trying to compensate seeing patterns on and off..including maybe visual noise..

4. couldn't get it to happen again during the daylight..

5. very intermittent... and difficult to repeat.

6. only pattern i can come up with is happened as the lighting got more difficult.. cold temperature and letting it warm up...may have been a coincidence.. as would be gimbals glitches.. may be own separate issue/bug

7. calibrated it on my laptop before..a while ago.. my laptop has glass touchscreen, it is laminated IPS LCD..but still reflective and only 13 inches..so  maybe it messed with calibration?
8. pulsating/viberations i would guess is ~30hz-60Hz pattern..  that fits within possibility it maybe camera..

2-11 23:40
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