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Jerky and not fluid videos
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2698 42 2-26 19:14
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AndreaV
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Hi
on my osmo pocket  I'm trying different combinations of shutter speed and FPS following the famous rules 2:1 to get fluid video but I always fail..the videos are not fluid, not only in the 180° rotations but also when I walk straight!!

I tried the following manual settings ( with the help of polar pro ND filters to have EV close to zero)

25fps  with 1/50 shutter speed
30fps  with 1/60 shutter speed
30fps  with 1/50 shutter speed
50fps  with 1/40 shutter speed
in all the above cases the videos are not fluid..
any suggestions?

thank you
2-26 19:14
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Ray-CubeAce
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Can I ask the following questions?
Do the clips seem to play back smoothly on the Osmo Pocket?
Do they then play back OK on another device such as a laptop, phone, tablet or PC?
If yes to the first question but no to the second, then it's the device playback that is at fault. You may need to upgrade to a more powerful machine or phone or  possibly just to a faster drive.

If it's ok to both answers but suffers after editing, then the frame table has become fragmented and needs rebuilding in the editor. Most decent video editors with enable you to rebuild a frame table.  

If the footage is not OK on the Osmo Pocket, is the SD card up to specification and of a reputable and sanctified make?
If the card is OK but the footage on the Osmo Pocket is not OK then it could be your technique. It is possible to be too fast or uneven in your panning techniques. Make a note of how your gimbal head lags as you pan. You may have to account for its movement as well as your own.

Or it could be the card memory is fragmented and needs formatting. Always format your card frequently and don't just delete clips and images as you go along. Recording needs contiguous memory to record to to give smooth output. Fragmented cards can misbehave when recording.  


2-27 14:18
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Pete84
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Can you post an example?  Could it be read/write speed of the memory card you're using?
2-27 14:29
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Pete84
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Can you post an example?  Could it be read/write speed of the memory card you're using?
2-27 14:29
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AndreaV
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Ray-CubeAce Posted at 2-27 14:18
Can I ask the following questions?
Do the clips seem to play back smoothly on the Osmo Pocket?
Do they then play back OK on another device such as a laptop, phone, tablet or PC?

Thank you for your answer.
Actually I have quite a powerfull pc ASUS ROG G11CB  e I play smothly also 4K drone footage so I think it's not a PC issue.
On the osmo pocket screen looks actually more fluid than on my PC, bit the scree is so small that is also hard to say..If I connect my Iphone X to the osmo with the connector and I play the footage there I can also see the problem as on the PC..
I will remake some tests using HD resolution just to exclude 100% the PC / iphone performance, and in this way I can get also smaller file to post here for who is interested to give a look..
thank you very much
2-27 18:34
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AndreaV
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Pete84 Posted at 2-27 14:29
Can you post an example?  Could it be read/write speed of the memory card you're using?

Hi
the files are 4K very heavy, I will repeat the test with HD resolution and Upload some files for you to check thank you.
Regarding the micro SD card, is one reccomended by DJI and also one of the best available: SANDISK EXTREME PRO V30   128GB
2-27 18:36
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AndreaV
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AndreaV Posted at 2-27 18:34
Thank you for your answer.
Actually I have quite a powerfull pc ASUS ROG G11CB  e I play smothly also 4K drone footage so I think it's not a PC issue.
On the osmo pocket screen looks actually more fluid than on my PC, bit the scree is so small that is also hard to say..If I connect my Iphone X to the osmo with the connector and I play the footage there I can also see the problem as on the PC..

Just to be sure: I'm talking about video unedited, just copied from SD card to the pc and opened with VLC or windows media player
2-27 18:37
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Wiz33
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AndreaV Posted at 2-27 18:34
Thank you for your answer.
Actually I have quite a powerfull pc ASUS ROG G11CB  e I play smothly also 4K drone footage so I think it's not a PC issue.
On the osmo pocket screen looks actually more fluid than on my PC, bit the scree is so small that is also hard to say..If I connect my Iphone X to the osmo with the connector and I play the footage there I can also see the problem as on the PC..

Are you recording in MOV or MP4, MOV can choke even on powerful PC depending on the which media player you're using.
2-27 18:38
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AndreaV
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Wiz33 Posted at 2-27 18:38
Are you recording in MOV or MP4, MOV can choke even on powerful PC depending on the which media player you're using.

always MP4
2-28 01:49
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Tompocket
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Hi,
Same issue for me.
Maybe the write bitrate on SD card ? I have a transcend v30...
Or bad movements, to fast ?
Result is the same after editing (test with mediacoder, 1080p, 8Mb/s h264)
You can see an exemple here : https://youtu.be/dKJTj8MED20 Not my video so another friend who have same issue
2-28 07:48
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Wiz33
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OK, are you using the 1TB HDD that comes with the system or have you added any other drive? It's weird but I had a similar problem with my laptop with a 1070 where I was getting jerky playback from one SSD but if I move the files to another SSD, they play back smooth. if you have another drive (even external), move the files to that one and see.
Can you upload a sample so we can see what you're getting? Also, do you have a phone that will hook up to the OP? Does the playback seems smooth on the phone?
2-28 07:59
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Wiz33
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Tompocket Posted at 2-28 07:48
Hi,
Same issue for me.
Maybe the write bitrate on SD card ? I have a transcend v30...

The video seems to be shot at high shutter speed and lacks the proper motion blur, was your friend using ND filters?
2-28 08:27
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Tompocket
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Wiz33 Posted at 2-28 08:27
The video seems to be shot at high shutter speed and lacks the proper motion blur, was your friend using ND filters?

I don't know this person ! he said he don't use ND filter.
send you samples, maybe my problem is shutter speed ?
testing sd on writting : 18MB/s
2-28 08:52
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RSW
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Wiz33 Posted at 2-27 18:38
Are you recording in MOV or MP4, MOV can choke even on powerful PC depending on the which media player you're using.

It's the same data. Only the extension is different. You can literally change the extension and have it play back just the same.
2-28 15:52
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Rastus
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For what it's worth I have always had this problem with the regular OSMO.Here is a video. You can see it @ 14 sec in.
2-28 16:12
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Rastus
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For what its worth I have always had footage jerking issues with the original OSMO. Here is a video . It's about 14 sec in.
2-28 16:17
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dldp-sp
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Question, are you physically moving the camera or, are you using the phone app and your finger on the screen to move just the gimbal head?

Regards,
Tom   
3-1 00:40
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AndreaV
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dldp-sp Posted at 3-1 00:40
Question, are you physically moving the camera or, are you using the phone app and your finger on the screen to move just the gimbal head?

Regards,

when i sue it I move the osmo with my hand or just walk in the street and face this problem
3-1 01:01
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AndreaV
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AndreaV Posted at 3-1 01:01
when i sue it I move the osmo with my hand or just walk in the street and face this problem

here my test:
https://youtu.be/VZY_UuwMWO8
3-1 03:44
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Ray-CubeAce
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AndreaV Posted at 3-1 03:44
here my test:
https://youtu.be/VZY_UuwMWO8

We are getting 'Video Unavailable'.
3-1 03:55
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El Diabolico
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It would be nice if you upload a sample BUT, what speed card are you using?
3-1 04:32
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Wiz33
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AndreaV Posted at 3-1 03:44
here my test:
https://youtu.be/VZY_UuwMWO8

I think you have to set it to public for us to view the vid
3-1 08:32
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AndreaV
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Wiz33 Posted at 3-1 08:32
I think you have to set it to public for us to view the vid

Sorry , my first time in YouTube..
Now should work
Thanks
3-1 20:35
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AndyUS19
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I experienced the same thing, but part of my fault. I shot 4k 24p with ND filter day time , but I accidentally set shutter speed to 1/120 instead of 1/50.  Also I pan a bit fast than normal. However, if i pan horizontally to the subject (not 360 degree panning) or panning slowly, then the result is better. Another factor is that my laptop is 7 years old (I know) so play back is not smooth on 4k video. I'll try again next time.
3-1 21:29
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Wiz33
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AndreaV Posted at 3-1 20:35
Sorry , my first time in YouTube..
Now should work
Thanks

I see what you're talking about but I don't think it's too bad, it probably due to panning in a not smooth fashion. Yes it's a gimbal but if you hand/arm motion is not smooth, you'll still see a bit of jerkiness from the pan. You can see in my 2 videos here that part of the pan is fairly smooth while part of it isn't. The part that is smooth is probably where I'm panning just with my arm and then the part that isn't is where I was also turning my body in order to get a full 360 short.:



3-3 10:08
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AndyUS19
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Wiz33 Posted at 3-3 10:08
I see what you're talking about but I don't think it's too bad, it probably due to panning in a not smooth fashion. Yes it's a gimbal but if you hand/arm motion is not smooth, you'll still see a bit of jerkiness from the pan. You can see in my 2 videos here that part pf the pan is fairly smooth while part of it isn't. The part that is smooth is probably where I'm panning just with my arm and then the part that isn't is where I was also turning my body in order to get a full 360 short.:


Agree. Even with my iphone 8 on gimbal is jerky if I pan a bit fast.  With OP, If I pan slowly of probably 45 degree angle, it would be ok, but 180 degree is no no even if I try to keep panning steady. Most of us try to pan that mimic cinematic shot on slider. I read a while ago on youtube that you can use tripod (iincluded in the link below) to mimic the slider shot.



3-3 10:34
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AndreaV
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Wiz33 Posted at 3-3 10:08
I see what you're talking about but I don't think it's too bad, it probably due to panning in a not smooth fashion. Yes it's a gimbal but if you hand/arm motion is not smooth, you'll still see a bit of jerkiness from the pan. You can see in my 2 videos here that part of the pan is fairly smooth while part of it isn't. The part that is smooth is probably where I'm panning just with my arm and then the part that isn't is where I was also turning my body in order to get a full 360 short.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pJJh0uKSZg&t=5s

Hi
your videos are much smoother than mine ( but i still can see some focus pumping).
I also made many test beside the one I posted in youtube with panning at different speed and they are never as good as yours, so maybe there is some problem in my device.. now i try to contact DJI and let's see what happens.

thank you
3-4 19:50
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Wiz33
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AndreaV Posted at 3-4 19:50
Hi
your videos are much smoother than mine ( but i still can see some focus pumping).
I also made many test beside the one I posted in youtube with panning at different speed and they are never as good as yours, so maybe there is some problem in my device.. now i try to contact DJI and let's see what happens.

I do have to note that I was panning very slowly and was stationary while you were moving in the video sample you uploaded. That maybe the difference, try panning very slowly while stationary and see if your result is the same. I was also using a ND16 PL on the daylight shot and that may have helped smooth things out by lowering the shutter speed.
3-5 08:10
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djiuser_POrkCOLRK4qi
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Hi Everyone,

I am experiencing a similar problem when panning:  the footage comes out noticeably jerky.  After reading this forum I decided to do a series of tests and have come to the conclusion that it *** may *** be the write speed of the card I use to capture video or it may be a problem with the Osmo Pocket itself when recording higher frame rates and higher resolution.  Here are the tests I performed, using the same location and same pan technique.  In each test I panned from right to left using the DJI controller for the pan movement.

   - 1080p 24 fps.  Result:  no jerks in the footage.
   - 1080p 30 fps.  Result:  no jerks in the footage.
   - 1080p 50 fps.  Result:  some noticeable jerks in the footage.
   - 1080p 60 fps.  Result:  many noticeable jerks in the footage.
   - 4k 24 fps.  Result:  no jerks in the footage.
   - 4k 25 fps.  Result:  no jerks in the footage.
   - 4k 30 fps.  Result:  some jerks in the footage.
   - 4k 48 fps.  Result:  some jerks in the footage.
   - 4k 50 fps.  Result:  noticeable jerks in the footage.
   - 4k 60 fps.  Result:  a lot of noticeable jerks int he footage.

Above one of the commentors asks the question about whether the footage looks jerky on the Osmo Pocket screen itself.  This is in my opinion a completely unrealistic request.  Unless I put on a pair of magnifying glasses there's no way I'm really going to notice if the footage is jerky on the Osmo Pocket screen because it is way too small.  The jerky footage is noticeable on progressively larger screens though, such as my phone, my tablet, and my laptop.  The jerks in the footage appear in the same location of the footage no matter which device I use, which tells me the footage was recorded with the "jerky-ness" included in the recording.  This eliminates any questions about the power of the machine doing the playback.  On any of the devices I used for this test I can easily watch 4k 60 fps video from youtube with no problem.

This leads me to believe that either the Osmo Pocket itself is unable to properly write the footage at higher resolution and frame rate, or the card it is writing to is unable to keep up.

I am using a Samsung 256 gig EVO Plus U3 micro SD card inside the Osmo Pocket, which supports up to 90 meg/s write speeds... far faster than the actual writes speed occurring to the card even at the full 4k 60 fps recording level which turns out to average about 13 meg/s.

Could this be a problem that can be fixed with a firmware update?  I do have the latest firmware currently installed according to the DJI Mimo app.
10-19 07:50
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Ray-CubeAce
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djiuser_POrkCOLRK4qi Posted at 10-19 07:50
Hi Everyone,

I am experiencing a similar problem when panning:  the footage comes out noticeably jerky.  After reading this forum I decided to do a series of tests and have come to the conclusion that it *** may *** be the write speed of the card I use to capture video or it may be a problem with the Osmo Pocket itself when recording higher frame rates and higher resolution.  Here are the tests I performed, using the same location and same pan technique.  In each test I panned from right to left using the DJI controller for the pan movement.

The request to see if the video was jerky on the Osmo screen is to do with the memory card compatibility which should have been seen easily enough to see if the problems was very bad. You are correct of course if the problem was more subtle.
If the card is not fast enough then the resulting jerkiness should easily have been visible on the screen and show a card deficiency because at that point of the conversation little was known about the problem. There are two parts of the cards specification to be met which is why the A2 designation of a card can be as important as the write speed. Having a large capacity card doesn't always help either.
Your results don't mean much as there are a lot of variables to take into account that you don't mention such as relative shutter speeds, shooting conditions, types of scenes being recorded or motion within the frames recorded. A bright day will force shorter shutter speeds unless you can control that by ISO settings or the use of ND filters as the Osmo Pocket has a wide fixed aperture that can't be changed that other larger cameras may be able to do to help out. The resulting image may be crisper due to the lack of motion within the frame but the result will look jerky compared to using a longer shutter speed. The downside of  a longer shutter speed is each frame will look less sharp but will result in a more fluid looking video which depending on how smooth and fast a pan was would also be of help.
If any of your problems are related to any of the points I've made above, there is little a firmware update can help with. Automatic settings can only do so much. The more anyone understands and can take control of, the better the end results will be. For instance, focus pulsing can be caused by several things but is mainly caused by the camera losing focus on the subject matter. It can happen to any camera depending on the type of focus system used and how many focus points the sensor has as well as it's ability to track once locked on to target. But, if the background has more sharp contrast than the subject, especially in the vertical plain it can switch to the  background either momentarily or permanently. Momentarily will cause the focus pulse. Again, the wider the lens aperture, the more difficult this is to keep a locked focus when the depth of view is less than if a narrower aperture was used. But then the ability to collect light to the sensor would drop of as the light faded.
Everything in a camera build and how it is used is compromise.
Results from user to user will vary depending on experience and ability.
10-19 09:25
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djiuser_POrkCOLRK4qi
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@Ray-CubeAce, all of the details you posted above really sound like nothing but an series of excuses.  An obfuscation of the obvious, which is that the Osmo Pocket has a problem recording stable video when panning from side to side.  Take a look at any YouTube video recorded from the Osmo Pocket that contains a pan scene (especially one recorded in 4k) and you'll see the same problem we're all talking about in this forum.  Shutter speed, ISO settings, and the use of filters make no difference when it comes to the problem.

Are you an official representative from DJI?  If so, it is a little disappointing that the official response from DJI is one of push-back and end user error, as opposed to trying to find out exactly what the problem is and see how it can be fixed.

If you're not an official representative from DJI, I'd ask that you keep your opinion to yourself as I'd like to get some help from DJI on how to solve this problem.  We all spent a lot of money on the Osmo Pocket and your responses are only making some of us regret we ever gave our business to DJI.
10-19 15:47
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Ray-CubeAce
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djiuser_POrkCOLRK4qi Posted at 10-19 15:47
@Ray-CubeAce, all of the details you posted above really sound like nothing but an series of excuses.  An obfuscation of the obvious, which is that the Osmo Pocket has a problem recording stable video when panning from side to side.  Take a look at any YouTube video recorded from the Osmo Pocket that contains a pan scene (especially one recorded in 4k) and you'll see the same problem we're all talking about in this forum.  Shutter speed, ISO settings, and the use of filters make no difference when it comes to the problem.

Are you an official representative from DJI?  If so, it is a little disappointing that the official response from DJI is one of push-back and end user error, as opposed to trying to find out exactly what the problem is and see how it can be fixed.

No I'm not a representative nor making excuses, just informing that settings and technique matter possibly more than the tech in use. I do think DJI could be more forthcoming in the specs of their products which could help if we knew for arguments sake how many focus assist point there were in the sensor. They could be more helpful in their general replies. At the same time, expecting everything to be fixed in firmware may be unrealistic and discounting user inexperience and that exposure time don't play a part of this problem as would pan movement doesn't help if awaiting a possible firmware fix to record better in the present.
If you have been here any length of time you would have seen me and others complain about things that could be changed and were improved by firmware updates.
I'm just of the opinion that this is not one of them, similar to the problem regarding 4th axis stabilisation which requires a different approach to a solution.
I'm sorry if you don't agree.
10-20 01:26
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CROW1973
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Sorry for my bad English.
Everything has been translated with Google.

I also tried that.
I'm filming in 1080p and 50fps (PAL for Europe)

I edit that in a 25fps timeline and output it with 25fps, then it jerks synonymous with me.
However, I edit it in a 50fps timeline and output it with 50fps, then it works without jerking.
10-20 05:11
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djiuser_riAfdeMpoj8m
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After 6months of use, i also think Osmo pocket have too much jerkiness when panning.

Im very aware all the stuff, like 180degree rule, ND-filters, fast SD-card writing speed, steady and close camera movement, etc

But i still get less jerky panning on my Huawei View 20, than Osmo pocket and my phone video record is using only auto settings bechause lack of nd-filters
10-23 15:45
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MKosmo
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I’ve had this with my videos and did come across this

https://www.red.com/red-101/camera-panning-speed

There is a rule of thumb ( regardless of camera ) that says your panning speed should not be quicker than 7s for a frame width,  which is really slow !

The details reference a lot of points that Ray-cube mentioned earlier, so maybe worth trying a much slower pan.

Apparently there are calculators out there for max pan speed which include frame rate, lens etc .... so would explain why some cameras are more susceptible than others ?

10-27 12:41
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fansfe82067d
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What an excellent link, thanks!  I would add that the hardware used for replay, and the software, plays an important part.  For instance, my PC has a fair bit of power, but using different video playback software on it can cause quite different results on pans.  The built in player in Windows 10 often achieves best panning replay, to my surprise, with VLC coming second and MPC coming third.  YMMV.
10-27 14:32
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fansfe82067d
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I'll add that while pans are often unavoidable, as a matter of style it's worth thinking whether that's really the best way to capture the scene.  With the Pocket (and other gimbal cameras) what looks better to me is shots where the sensation of the camera being on a tripod is absent, rather than present.  For instance, shots where the videographer has been moving steadily forward, backwards, or sideways, or where the the camera is moving around the subject using the tracking feature to keep it centred while the view changes.  Often such shots will be less likely to show stutters than typical fixed-point pans, it seems to me.
10-27 14:45
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djiuser_POrkCOLRK4qi
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I'd like to share my latest findings on this, which I believe have helped to fix the problem of jerky footage when panning left to right / right to left.  First off, I know it was possible to get panning footage that did not jerk when panning because there are some absolutely excellent videos on Youtube made by "Nippon Wandering TV"  (search for it; great stuff!).  Whoever publishes these videos uses an Osmo Pocket and their panning is absolutely seamless... butter smooth with no issues at all.  After watching these videos and knowing it can be done, I continued to search.

I found another DJI thread about shaky video with the OP and under one of the comments, a user recommended the following settings for "running" with the OP:

- go into pro mode
- set ISO to 100
- set "Follow" to "Fast Follow'
- set shutter speed to 1/16

These were for outdoor recording, so not always applicable, but I tried them.  Sure enough the panning was much smoother.  I think the key setting related to panning is making sure that the "Follow" option is set to "Fast Follow".  

Also, I did notice that the "Nippon Wandering TV" channel records up to 4k at 50 fps.

I need to play around with the setting some more, but it appears as though switching to "Fast Follow" may help alleviate the panning problem with jerky video.

Good luck everyone!


James
11-1 13:22
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fansfe82067d
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A shutter speed of 1/16th would result in massive motion blur, which might be regarded as smoothness, but that's a very abnormal setting.  Maybe a typo??
11-1 13:29
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Ray-CubeAce
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fansfe82067d Posted at 11-1 13:29
A shutter speed of 1/16th would result in massive motion blur, which might be regarded as smoothness, but that's a very abnormal setting.  Maybe a typo??

You could get away with longer shutter speeds if you used an ND filter if it was bright. Would also help on duller days. I think the slowest shutter speed available in manual is 1/50s so yes, a typo. But this is what I was saying earlier, each frame will show some motion blur in it making it apear smother but less sharp. Video, like still image taking, is always about compromise for settings for best performance for the shooting conditions at the time.
I'm as bad as anyone else and rely on auto settings for when I don't have time to set s shot up, but auto can only do so much.
11-1 15:20
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