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Too many lost drones...why?
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Monk32
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Someone looking in forum may ask "why so many complanings about  lost drones?"
The answer is located in the technical behavior of the pilots and their choosen flight area.
I think many people don't know what they are doing and many times ignoring the statement "compass calibration needed" or "strong magnetic interference".

Lets get explain..
The drone is using GPS - IMU - Barometer and Compass sensors to identify its position, heading and state of flight.
Then desides which mode to use in flight.
There are 3 modes as all knows. GPS - OPTI - ATTI
In GPS mode, all sensors are working to get knowledge and accieving correction and in combination with the barometer mainaining altitude, heading and get exact position state.
In Opti mode (flying under 8 meters of hight) the drone goes when the GPS is unavailable (inside covered places - Under high buildings or other constructions hidding satelites), and it is rellying in barometer - compass and in bottom optical sensors.
In Atti mode (above 8 meters of hight) the drone is practicaly a non sensored device, not knows where to fly and only barometer helps keeping its altitude.
In this cituation any wind drifts away the drone, and if we don't have optical connection with the drone, it is almost impossible to bring it back. The RTH does not working cause the system does not knows where it is and where the home point locating, and this is the reason of losted drones.

How is working really?
The drone needs lots of satelites and a calibrated compass to work flowesly.
But...
When we first activating the drone we are calibrating the compass. Remaining in the same place the recalibration of the compass is not nessecary. But many times the go4 asking to do it. Why we don't ask ourselves why?!!!
Because something is creating magnetic interference making our compass to get crazy. So doing a calibration in the place we've been asked for, in reality we inform the compass the wrong way. As the magnetic interference is there, the calibration makes a wronlgy informed system which when goes up high flying, been now at a magnetic clean environment, the compass and IMU are not in the same state causing the drone behavior to get confused. That's why many guys complaining about their drone strange behavior.
This cituation is called TBA (Toilet Bowl Affect) and it is common among strong magnetic fields. You must have in mind that smart devices, smart watches, Mettal surfaces, Mettalic constructions, fences, Electric Wires, Power lines, hidden mettalic grids and underground wires or mettalic tubes, are making strong magnetic interference which is fooling drone's magnetic compass.
So beware of them and always check out the place you are going to fly.

The GPS signal is not always as correct as we may think of.
No matter how many satelites are located in the sky, the real matter is how separate are according our position.
When many satelites are very close to each other in the sky, lets say 8 of them in an vertical azimouth and only 2 of them lower in horizon, the drone GPS module gets a confused signal, because there is no clear separation between them and the system does not making an accurate trigonometry positioning count.(see the picture with the lines represending the signal from neighboring satelites   RED lines ----- are not in clear state - WHITE lines ----- are ok)
That is why some times even if there are enough satelites the drone turns in to ATTI mode.
In this case if the drone is out of our line of sight we got to be lucky to get it back.
This cituation is known as HDOP (Horizontal Degrees Of Position) and is something to get really seriusly.

So ...
DO NOT :
   -Let a need for compass calibration pass without serius thinking of which reason causing it
   -Ensist to fly in a place with strong magnetic interference like streets with covered wiring lines, near power lines, near mettal condtructions ect or fly between high buildings that blocking sats  
  -fly without been warned out in case of sudden OPTI or ATTI mode activation  
  -Rely only on a big number of satelites

DO
   -use of some great apps like UAV Foscast (https://play.google.com/store/ap ... avforecast&hl=en_US) which tells you the satelite cituation among other info
   -check the area you are going to fly
   -avoid flying among high buildings or under satelite blocking places
   -avoid flying near mettalic constructions, power lines, and other magnetic field suspect places

Take seriusly the sensor state of your drone and you are going to enjoy your beloved drone for a long long time...















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Aurelian Irimia
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The short answer is PILOT ERROR!
2019-3-17
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Aurelian Irimia
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When I fly, I always put my iPhone and my Apple Watch in Airplane Mode. I recommend this to all pilots. Everything you have said is true and very useful. I've never had any problems, neither with the Spark and now with the Mavc Air either
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Monk32
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Aurelian Irimia Posted at 3-17 07:16
When I fly, I always put my iPhone and my Apple Watch in Airplane Mode. I recommend this to all pilots. Everything you have said is true and very useful. I've never had any problems, neither with the Spark and now with the Mavc Air either

indeed my friend.... everything is better when you are going to get knowledge and know how. Safe flights.
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A CW
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I've never crashed a DJI drone in over two and a half years. I take a methodical approach to maintaining my equipment and have many work flows and check lists that I use to uphold flight safety and to ultimately protect my drones. That said, having used this forum extensively, there are genuine circumstances whereby a crash is not always caused by pilot error and there must be nothing more frustrating than losing thousands of pounds worth of drone equipment through no fault of your own then using this forum to understand why only to be accused of causing the crash yourself due to the presumptuous nature of some forum users. It is important for everyone to understand the facts of each individual case rather point fingers and blame pilots in some generalised blame culture. Rolls Royce cars break down, NASA space shuttles blow up, Concorde's blow up and yes, DJI drones are not infallible either and can and do malfunction through absolutely no fault of the pilot.
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Monk32
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A CW Posted at 3-17 07:26
I've never crashed a DJI drone in over two and a half years. I take a methodical approach to maintaining my equipment and have many work flows and check lists that I use to uphold flight safety and to ultimately protect my drones. That said, having used this forum extensively, there are genuine circumstances whereby a crash is not always caused by pilot error and there must be nothing more frustrating than losing thousands of pounds worth of drone equipment through no fault of your own then using this forum to understand why only to be accused of causing the crash yourself due to the presumptuous nature of some forum users. It is important for everyone to understand the facts of each individual case rather point fingers and blame pilots in some generalised blame culture. Rolls Royce cars break down, NASA space shuttles blow up, Concorde's blow up and yes, DJI drones are not infallible either and can and do malfunction through absolutely no fault of the pilot.

i agree. But that i mentioned is that in most cases we have to pay a little more attention to the circumstances and behave seriusly. Only that. And have in mind that many drone users are uninformed about technicals and that's a serius reason for accidents.
Have always safe flights
2019-3-17
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A CW
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Monk32 Posted at 3-17 07:36
i agree. But that i mentioned is that in most cases we have to pay a little more attention to the circumstances and behave seriusly. Only that. And have in mind that many drone users are uninformed about technicals and that's a serius reason for accidents.
Have always safe flights

Yes, there are two sides to this but the short answer is not pilot error.
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HedgeTrimmer
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I don't recommend doing it.  But if your drone's compass(es) have been previously properly calibrated, you can take off from and fly near ferrous metal.  

Example of taking off and hovering very close to large steel pipe.




Semi buried and buried steel pipe is large enough it shows up on Satellite images.
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hallmark007
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Yes a large percentage is errors by pilot, but probably the biggest error is the envoirment he flys in, it alsohas to be said that we see a lot around here just because this is the place to come when something goes wrong .
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dronespilot
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Nice explanation   I would also add wind speed may bring issues as well.
As who to blame, I think it is an unfair conclusion that pilot error is a reason for flyaways, there are still cases where the firmware errors play a role as well. I believe this thread and many similar ones are good at reminding pilots with checklists prior to flight.
2019-3-17
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Marcius13
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Aurelian Irimia Posted at 3-17 07:16
When I fly, I always put my iPhone and my Apple Watch in Airplane Mode. I recommend this to all pilots. Everything you have said is true and very useful. I've never had any problems, neither with the Spark and now with the Mavc Air either

Good point
2019-3-18
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JJB*
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Hi Monk.

Good to read your explantion.

There is a difference for ATTI and OPTI mode ; when this occurs.

At take-off with no GPS sats and/or reception > drone will enter OPTI or ATTI.
OPTI > when enough visual reference, if not than ATTI.
Height is limited ( 5 or 30 meters), limit depending if downward vision is activated/not activated.
When flying in a GPS mode and GPS sats and/or reception gets bad or GPS use is disabled due to errors (compass,yaw,speed,imu)
Drone will enter ATTI mode or into OPTI if flying with enough visual reference.

Happy many landings,
cheers
JJB
2019-3-18
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Tomcatuk
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Aurelian Irimia Posted at 3-17 07:16
When I fly, I always put my iPhone and my Apple Watch in Airplane Mode. I recommend this to all pilots. Everything you have said is true and very useful. I've never had any problems, neither with the Spark and now with the Mavc Air either

Only have iPhone but yes straight into air plane mode...
2019-3-18
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Boffin
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It would be really interesting if DJI were to publish some statistics from their diagnostics of accident reports.

Maybe not actual numbers, just percentages, as I do believe that the results would be heavily biased towards pilot errors.

I suppose that there is a fat chance of this happening - but one can wish
2019-3-18
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AlansDronePics
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Monk 32 said this in connection with 'To many lost drones'.  "I think many people don't know what they are doing …"
He didn't say or conclude with pilot error.
To  respond by saying :-
A CW   "Yes, there are two sides to this but the short answer is not pilot error. "  There are not 2 sides to the point Monk 32 said. He simply stated that many people (Those who complain about a lost drone) don't know what they are doing. This means some, not all and is not a blanket statement like yours.  
I personally agree with Monk32s suggestion and it applies to a wider group of drone users who may not actually lose the drone, but have serious problems yet haven't even read the manual.
We all know that you are highly skilled flying your drone, A CW, I wish I had those skills.

Hallmark007    "Yes a large percentage is errors by pilot, but probably the biggest error is the envoirment he flys…"  I disagree with you Hallmark007. (Yes, like A CW, you are on my friends list.) You and A CW and several others here are skilled and knowledgeable enough to stay out of trouble because you are aware of the hidden problems in the environment. You don't have catastrophic events like crashing or flyaway, because you anticipate and know what you are doing. The environment is what it is, it cannot be in error, only the unwise pilot for not avoiding it.

I see no benefit to users by offering sympathy and pandering to them if they haven't the wit to read the manual, follow closely the issues raised here on the forum and ask themselves, what would I do if my drone had this problem. I bet all the keen droners here, the people who soak up the knowledge and think what they can and cannot do safely with their drone, seldom have a crisis.

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Monk32
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JJB* Posted at 3-18 00:34
Hi Monk.

Good to read your explantion.

Agree, but I have observed that this change (OPTI - ATTI) happens according the high in which the drone flies. Above 8 meters usually the downward sensor is not accurate or inactive so ATTI is the mode used, and under 8 meters the sensor can see clear image of surface so OPTI mode activated. Am I wrong?
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Monk32
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AlansDronePics Posted at 3-18 02:39
Monk 32 said this in connection with 'To many lost drones'.  "I think many people don't know what they are doing …"
He didn't say or conclude with pilot error.
To  respond by saying :-

AlansDronePics you got it. I really believe many pilots don't read or deeply thinking about technical or interested of how their device is working. They just charge and flight. A more intensive search and deep knowledge may help a lot to prevent a possible loss and at least minimize the pilot error case. Like the people know basics haw the car is working, they tend to be better drivers. I want just to share thoughts and as much knowledge I got to others to give a little help. And this is the point I would like to mention that DJI should be great to create an online tech encyclopaedia and advisor knowledge base to help all.
Thanks
John (Monk32)
2019-3-18
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BobB
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Lots of people come here asking why their drone flew away. To bad they don't read a post like this before flying....
2019-3-18
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hallmark007
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AlansDronePics Posted at 3-18 02:39
Monk 32 said this in connection with 'To many lost drones'.  "I think many people don't know what they are doing …"
He didn't say or conclude with pilot error.
To  respond by saying :-

“The environment is what it is, it cannot be in error, only the unwise pilot for not avoiding it.”

I can assure I’m not blaming or have I ever blamed the envoirment for the crash accident, everyday I fly I know full well that responsibility is 100% with me.
So you may be quoting me wrong or I have not clearly outlined why I said flying in bad envoirments is the cause of many crashes or accidents.

I can tell you for sure, that everywhere I fly I will scope the area , I will always have a contingency plan if something was to go wrong, and if I get errors or think something is wrong like Aircraft goes to Atti mode, I will always think where is the safest place to land as soon as possible .

Envoirment is key to flying and with very little thought and imagination it can be made a safe place to fly .
And I agree with you in everything you say regarding what Monk 32 published.
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Monk32
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BobB Posted at 3-18 03:26
Lots of people come here asking why their drone flew away. To bad they don't read a post like this before flying....

Thanks pal..i like to help and i am glad if i did it...
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hallmark007
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Monk32 Posted at 3-18 03:04
Agree, but I have observed that this change (OPTI - ATTI) happens according the high in which the drone flies. Above 8 meters usually the downward sensor is not accurate or inactive so ATTI is the mode used, and under 8 meters the sensor can see clear image of surface so OPTI mode activated. Am I wrong?

No you are correct, above the distance Aircraft holds its altitude by using barometric pressure .
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jacksonnai
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Thanks for sharing
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JJB*
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Monk32 Posted at 3-18 03:04
Agree, but I have observed that this change (OPTI - ATTI) happens according the high in which the drone flies. Above 8 meters usually the downward sensor is not accurate or inactive so ATTI is the mode used, and under 8 meters the sensor can see clear image of surface so OPTI mode activated. Am I wrong?

Hi Monk,

for MA the range the downward vision range is 0.1mt to 8 meter, but the operating range is 0,5 to 30 meters.
So if drone is flying at height of 15 meters and GPS goes bad, OPTI is possible.

Only at take-off in OPTI the height limit does limiting for climbing higher.

cheers
JJB
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hallmark007
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JJB* Posted at 3-18 06:30
Hi Monk,

for MA the range the downward vision range is 0.1mt to 8 meter, but the operating range is 0,5 to 30 meters.

That’s incorrect, when Aircraft reaches failsafe for vision sensors it will revert to using barometric pressure to hold altitude, while it may go a couple of feet above its failsafe, that’s about it, vision sensors will then be inactivated,

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hallmark007 Posted at 3-18 06:57
That’s incorrect, when Aircraft reaches failsafe for vision sensors it will revert to using barometric pressure to hold altitude, while it may go a couple of feet above its failsafe, that’s about it, vision sensors will then be inactivated,

[view_image]

Sorry Hallmark, on some DJI drones you can enable and disable the downward vision.
That is what is written here.

So reachable height after take-off in OPTI/ATTI is 5 or 30 meters, depending on status downward sensor (enable/disable)

cheers
JJB
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hallmark007
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JJB* Posted at 3-18 07:36
Sorry Hallmark, on some DJI drones you can enable and disable the downward vision.
That is what is written here.

vision sensors altitude range 8 metres , operating range 15 metres .
Edit sorry 30metres .
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hallmark007 Posted at 3-18 07:49
vision sensors altitude range 8 metres , operating range 15 metres .

ofcourse...
in your logic the situation 8-30 in OPTI can never happen as out of the normal range the baro sensor takes over.
OPTI hold position can work great at 15 of 20 meters using the vision, i did not say anything about wich sensor is controlling the height.


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hallmark007
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JJB* Posted at 3-18 07:53
ofcourse...
in your logic the situation 8-30 in OPTI can never happen as out of the normal range the baro sensor takes over.
OPTI hold position can work great at 15 of 20 meters using the vision, i did not say anything about wich sensor is controlling the height.

I suppose we are all wrong and the mere mention of vision sensor altitude in the manual @ altitude 8 metres is some kind of mistake, we are talking about modes here GPS OPTI ATTI maybe take a look at the video, but I’m certain you will disagree with this also.




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A CW
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AlansDronePics Posted at 3-18 02:39
Monk 32 said this in connection with 'To many lost drones'.  "I think many people don't know what they are doing …"
He didn't say or conclude with pilot error.
To  respond by saying :-

Let's be clear - my response is actually in reply to post number 2 on this thread - which states "The short answer is PILOT ERROR" - that is a sweeping statement which I believe to be totally incorrect and is a renowned problem on most forums which seem to sadly take the angle of 'guilty until proved innocent' - which contradicts the fundamental basics of any credible legal system.

Learning from one's errors is great but do not make the mistake of assuming all crashes are due to the pilot. I recall my Spark starting to fly away from me back in 2017 - had I not taught myself how to fly in ATTI mode on my Phantom 3 Professional I would have lost the drone yet the cause of the fly away had nothing to do with me - it was caused by a malfunction.

And as for "There are not 2 sides to the point Monk 32 said" - yes there is actually and rightly so. On one side drones crashing are caused by pilot error by not taking the time to learn the basics and on the other side the drone malfunctioning through no fault of the pilot - which the OP agreed with in his reply to me...


It is the responsibility of the pilot to ensure that he/she is as aware as possible of the basics and what the OP stated is totally on point in that regard but I also made the addition of highlighting that a drone crashing can also be caused by a malfunction given the response in post 2 which was overlooked by the OP at best. The fact that you seem quick to correct me and Hallmark on our views and opinions whilst leaving that blanket response in post 2 without mention or correction makes me believe that you agree that all crashes are indeed caused by pilot error - that is very ignorant if so...

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A CW
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Monk32 Posted at 3-18 03:18
AlansDronePics you got it. I really believe many pilots don't read or deeply thinking about technical or interested of how their device is working. They just charge and flight. A more intensive search and deep knowledge may help a lot to prevent a possible loss and at least minimize the pilot error case. Like the people know basics haw the car is working, they tend to be better drivers. I want just to share thoughts and as much knowledge I got to others to give a little help. And this is the point I would like to mention that DJI should be great to create an online tech encyclopaedia and advisor knowledge base to help all.
Thanks
John (Monk32)

They have - it's in the academy section of the GO4 app - loads of videos, guides, manuals, knowledge based Q&A's and even a simulator - you may wish too check it out.
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HedgeTrimmer
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Far to much credibility is placed on '''the Manuals'''.  We know DJI has flipped-flopped around on when compasses need calibrating.  Manuals are vague at best on GPS signal strength.  As has been shown, manuals are open to interpretation, discussion, and argument.  We also know DJI firmware has had numerous fixes put in, similarly manuals can have flubs.  Anybody who has been involved in technical world knows, it is hard enough to get engineers to document, let alone write up a operational manual.  Even then, such manuals to often make assumptions as to everyone reading manual will have particular knowledge of engineer's project.
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Lucas775
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A lot of inexperience pilot, thinking its a "smart drone" and it could basically fly itself "WRONG"!
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Monk32
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HedgeTrimmer Posted at 3-18 15:24
Far to much credibility is placed on '''the Manuals'''.  We know DJI has flipped-flopped around on when compasses need calibrating.  Manuals are vague at best on GPS signal strength.  As has been shown, manuals are open to interpretation, discussion, and argument.  We also know DJI firmware has had numerous fixes put in, similarly manuals can have flubs.  Anybody who has been involved in technical world knows, it is hard enough to get engineers to document, let alone write up a operational manual.  Even then, such manuals to often make assumptions as to everyone reading manual will have particular knowledge of engineer's project.

It's true..you have right..
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Monk32
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A CW Posted at 3-18 11:08
They have - it's in the academy section of the GO4 app - loads of videos, guides, manuals, knowledge based Q&A's and even a simulator - you may wish too check it out.

You're right..but as in aviation use to say, the best knowledge comes with using experience. That's why pilots reporting, engineers searching, manufacturer complies and informs.
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Monk32 Posted at 3-19 06:07
You're right..but as in aviation use to say, the best knowledge comes with using experience. That's why pilots reporting, engineers searching, manufacturer complies and informs.

But it is also a regulatory requirement in my country at least to follow the manufacturers instructions as written in the UK CAA drone code. It would be hard to follow those instructions without reading them. It’s advisable to read the manual at least as part of the initial learning then experience takes over.
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AlansDronePics
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HedgeTrimmer Posted at 3-18 15:24
Far to much credibility is placed on '''the Manuals'''.  We know DJI has flipped-flopped around on when compasses need calibrating.  Manuals are vague at best on GPS signal strength.  As has been shown, manuals are open to interpretation, discussion, and argument.  We also know DJI firmware has had numerous fixes put in, similarly manuals can have flubs.  Anybody who has been involved in technical world knows, it is hard enough to get engineers to document, let alone write up a operational manual.  Even then, such manuals to often make assumptions as to everyone reading manual will have particular knowledge of engineer's project.

But if a user ignores the manual and all the DJI vids, not to mention the YouTube vids from those who know what they are talking about, and the good advice on the forum, they will soon come to grief. The manual is a starting point for those who want to learn.
If someone unpacks their drone, charges it up and flies with no prior learning, they are asking for trouble.
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AlansDronePics Posted at 3-19 06:52
But if a user ignores the manual and all the DJI vids, not to mention the YouTube vids from those who know what they are talking about, and the good advice on the forum, they will soon come to grief. The manual is a starting point for those who want to learn.
If someone unpacks their drone, charges it up and flies with no prior learning, they are asking for trouble.

True for DJI stuff.  Not so sure about uTube vids...

To many uTube vids are made by people who think they know what they are talking about, promote themselves as experts, yet there claimed knowledge comes from other uTube vids and '''experts'''.  In other words videos akin to House of Cards, built on Sand.  

Would post a world known example, but it would open up a can of worms.   
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AlansDronePics
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HedgeTrimmer Posted at 3-19 07:45
True for DJI stuff.  Not so sure about uTube vids...

To many uTube vids are made by people who think they know what they are talking about, promote themselves as experts, yet there claimed knowledge comes from other uTube vids and '''experts'''.  In other words videos akin to House of Cards, built on Sand.  

I wanted to say that HedgeTrimmer. You are so right and brave.
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AlansDronePics
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A CW Posted at 3-19 06:11
But it is also a regulatory requirement in my country at least to follow the manufacturers instructions as written in the UK CAA drone code. It would be hard to follow those instructions without reading them. It’s advisable to read the manual at least as part of the initial learning then experience takes over.

So right A CW.
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You do learn more from experience but the manual is a good place to start.
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