The same bitrate of 100Mbit per second is generated on both 4K@60fps resolutions and 4K@30fps resolutions.
Does it mean that the frames/movies created at 4K@30fps have TWO TIMES more information than the ones taken at 4K@60fps?

Something not entirely unlike that, yes.

So in fact the 4K@60fps video quality is somehow a frames upscale of 4K@30fps and the result is just a lower quality vileo of 4K@30fps and not a REAL 4K@60fps recording?

No not at all, it means the each frame of video has more compression at 60fps than 30fps. But it doesn’t necessarily mean that it will be worse quality than 30fps as the codec will carry the compression on a variable algorithm depending on the scene.

Nope...
If the file size of one minute of video at 4K@30fps is the same with the size of one minute of video at 4K@60fps, and you know that in the both cases the bitrate is 100Mbit , then probably half of the frames at 4K@60fps are artificially added while the base is the same 4K@30fps video.

DJDream Posted at 3-20 15:04
Nope...
If the file size of one minute of video at 4K@30fps is the same with the size of one minute of video at 4K@60fps, and you know that in the both cases the bitrate is 100Mbit , then probably half of the frames at 4K@60fps are artificially added while the base is the same 4K@30fps video.

No DjDream you got it confused.
100Mbps is just compression data rate.

Let’s compare 4K60P@100Mbps vs 4K60P@200Mbps.
Same resolusion and same frame rate but twice the compression data rate means 200Mbps has each frame picture data size twice bigger than 100Mbps. (I am overly simplified it for explaining but) It does not mean 200Mbps shot at 120P and compressed to 60P.

Same for compairing 4K30P@100Mbps vs 4K60P@100Mbps. 4K30P need to compress 30 pictures into 100Mbps data rate but 4K60P need to compress 60 pictures. Which means twice more frames and in other words each frame need to twice more compressed. (into half size) (again overly simplified)

100Mbps is actually big number and right data rate to take 4K60P. (Most phones and even some mirrorless has 60Mbps for 4K60P and looks ok)

In normal scenes, 4K60P@100Mbps takes great pictures. Kind of case that you like to use 4K30P@100Mbps for higher data rate per frame is shooting scene with many detail like forest or grass.

Tide Posted at 3-20 16:27
No DjDream you got it confused.
100Mbps is just compression data rate.

This is all ok, but it ignores how compression actually works - space is saved because for many frames only the difference between the pictures between frames is preserved. Now, the intervals between frames at 60 fps are twice as quick as the intervals between frames at 30 fps. So, the difference in frames is less (for moving subjects) when shooting at a higher frame rate, so there is less info needed to compress. That is why for moving subjects shooting at 60p can give you higher quality than shooting at 30p, even for the same bitrate

markr041 Posted at 3-20 16:42
This is all ok, but it ignores how compression actually works - space is saved because for many frames only the difference between the pictures between frames is preserved. Now, the intervals between frames at 60 fps are twice as quick as the intervals between frames at 30 fps. So, the difference in frames is less (for moving subjects) when shooting at a higher frame rate, so there is less info to needed to compress. That is why for moving subjects shooting at 60p can give you higher quality than shooting at 30p, even for the same bitrate

You are right. I overly simplified it and didn’t mention how compression works. I was running out of 1000 character comment limit

say,
a 85%compressed jpg is 1/2 the size of a 95%compressed jpg,
ok....
you can't say that the 95%compressed jpg is double the quality of a 85%compressed jpg.
fact:
100% people can't find big different from this 2 pictures on their phone.

No, no, it is not I mean and please let me explain:
If you shot with two Osmo Pocket devices the exact same shot, with the same lenght, one at 4K@30fps and one at 4K@60fps you'll see that the both files have aproximatelly the same size and if you'll check the each file info you'll find that the both have the same bitrate info, something like that :

For 4K@60fps:
Video: MPEG4 Video (H264) 3840x2160 59.94fps 99932kbps [V: DJI.AVC [eng] (h264 high L5.2, yuv420p, 3840x2160, 99932 kb/s)]
Audio: AAC 48000Hz stereo 189kbps [A: DJI.AAC [eng] (aac lc, 48000 Hz, stereo, 189 kb/s)]

For 4K@30fps:
Video: MPEG4 Video (H264) 3840x2160 29.97fps 100031kbps [V: DJI.AVC [eng] (h264 high L5.2, yuv420p, 3840x2160, 100031 kb/s)]
Audio: AAC 48000Hz stereo 189kbps [A: DJI.AAC [eng] (aac lc, 48000 Hz, stereo, 189 kb/s)]

So how a file which has 2 times more frames on it, and it should have two times more bitrate and size, has in fact the same size and the same bitrate as a video with halsf of the frames?
To me the 4K@60fps video looks, from this reason, a "frame-upscaled" version of 4K@30fps and not a NATIVE 4K@60fps.
This is probably the reason that we cannot have a "SUPERFINE" option for 4K@60fps but only at 4K@30fps because it will be over the CPU/GPU capacity to upsacale the 30fps file to 60fps at 101Mbit/sec bitrate. But for "FINE" mode, they are probably "frame-overscale" the 30fps information to 60fps information without adding in fact any new information for twice the amount of the frames. Fact- the size of the file on the both 30fps and 60fps at 4K resolution is the same...

DJDream Posted at 3-20 23:21
No, no, it is not I mean and please let me explain:
If you shot with two Osmo Pocket devices the exact same shot, with the same lenght, one at 4K@30fps and one at 4K@60fps you'll see that the both files have aproximatelly the same size and if you'll check the each file info you'll find that the both have the same bitrate info, something like that :

"This is probably the reason that we cannot have a "SUPERFINE" option for 4K@60fps but only at 4K@30fps because it will be over the CPU/GPU capacity to upsacale the 30fps file to 60fps at 101Mbit/sec bitrate."

That is not correct!  Even for 4k30p Superfine is not possible.

Udo13 Posted at 3-21 01:37
"This is probably the reason that we cannot have a "SUPERFINE" option for 4K@60fps but only at 4K@30fps because it will be over the CPU/GPU capacity to upsacale the 30fps file to 60fps at 101Mbit/sec bitrate."

That is not correct!  Even for 4k30p Superfine is not possible.

Yes, you're right, SUPERFINE is possible only at 24fps or 25fps.

OK.
case 1:  @30fps 30 frames were compressed at 95% (say) => 1s
case 2:  @60fps 60 frames were compressed at 85% (say) => 1s
the file size of case 1 ~  the file size of case 2.
in case 1, the compression is less, so we call it SUPERFINE.

Here you see the difference between 4k30p and 4k60p

These are the details in Mediainfo:
Format Profile: High@L5.1 4k30p and High@L5.2 4k60p
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)  0.402 4k30p and 0.201 4k60p

Udo13 Posted at 3-21 01:44
Here you see the difference between 4k30p and 4k60p

These are the details in Mediainfo:

very Pro.
how good/bad is the value of bits-per-pixel 0.402 & 0.201 ?

Udo13 Posted at 3-21 01:44
Here you see the difference between 4k30p and 4k60p

These are the details in Mediainfo:

This is exactely what I'm stating:
The video at 4K@60fps has half of the information/bitrate per frame/quality comparing to 4K@30fps.
To me it looks like what tha DJI guys do is just converting the 4K@30fps video to 4K@60fps and not natively record the video at 4K@60fps.
If it is true, it should be clrely be stated by DJI because all of their publications/marketing materia ows the 4K@60fps resolution as a NATIVE resolution, which seems NOT to be TRUE.

DJDream Posted at 3-20 23:21
No, no, it is not I mean and please let me explain:
If you shot with two Osmo Pocket devices the exact same shot, with the same lenght, one at 4K@30fps and one at 4K@60fps you'll see that the both files have aproximatelly the same size and if you'll check the each file info you'll find that the both have the same bitrate info, something like that :

No no no DjDream you got it confused again.
If the Bitrate is same, the file size should be about same, because bitrate is how much data per second not per frame.
So in 100Mbps, 4K24P, 4K30P, 4K50P and 4K60P should be about same size. Even in 1080/24P if it is same 100Mbps the file size is same.

Udo13's screenshot is show it right.
In the 100Mbps (Bitrate per second) LIMITATION, per frame date in 60P is half size of 30P and it is how the standard works. Otherwise if you keep the per frame date same as 30P than it becomes 60P 200Mbps.

markr041 Posted at 3-20 16:42
This is all ok, but it ignores how compression actually works - space is saved because for many frames only the difference between the pictures between frames is preserved. Now, the intervals between frames at 60 fps are twice as quick as the intervals between frames at 30 fps. So, the difference in frames is less (for moving subjects) when shooting at a higher frame rate, so there is less info needed to compress. That is why for moving subjects shooting at 60p can give you higher quality than shooting at 30p, even for the same bitrate

That's completely wrong.

Does anyone know if 4K/60 is better video quality or 4K/30 please?

nomnomnom Posted at 9-26 15:12
Does anyone know if 4K/60 is better video quality or 4K/30 please?

Quality relies on perception of sight and it's ability to detect or ignore motion within a moving image so for files with similar bit rates the amount of motion within each frame will determine the perceived sharpness of the subject but the amount of motion allowed will blur slightly each frame. Getting a balance between frame speed and and exposure time along with good focus will ultimately have more impact on the final perceived quality of final video than which frame rate is used. Then there is the ISO value to consider which will soften an image or become more digitally noisy as it increases. As with photography there are limitations within any shooting environment to be considered for best results and are worth learning about, as manually overriding the auto settings on some occasions has benefits if you want to achieve beter quality output. So my answer would be either, depending on the shooting conditions and subject matter.

Putting it differently, the effect of cutting the bitrate can be very different in different situations.  For example, imagine a scenario where the video content is very simple, such as all black frames, or fixed blocks of colors that don't move.  In that case 100Mbps is not compressing a 4k/60 stream at all.  4k/30 and 4k/60 are both perfect and would be equal quality.  But obviously there are other situations in which the video content is very complex and moving around a lot, where the extra compression might matter more.  Think of some kind of a light show with flashing lights and disco balls and explosions and fireworks.  In that situation you could find that the 4k/60 stream pixelated a bit, especially when zoomed, but the 4k/30 stream does not (but instead might be more visibly jerky).  So you can't say one is double quality of the other.  It just depends.

this is why 4K/25fps/Superfine is better quality than 4k/60fps
F**king marketing.

Would love to see All-I codec in 200Mbps/400Mbps bitrate.